Istočnogermanska ili zapadnoslovenska plemena?



7.6.4 Lexical innovations due to the Neolithic revolution


The presence of the Slavs in their historical area already in Neolithic – and consequently also in the earlier periods –, can be argued in the light of several semantic developments. We return first to one we sketched in an earlier section.

The lexical family of Proto-Slavic *lędo ‘fallow land’, Hung. lengyel ‘Polish’, Germ. land, Swed. linda
The Hungarian ethnonym Lengyel ‘Polish’ (name of the homonym Neolithic culture) is a loanword from the Slavic name of ‘Poland’ and of ‘Polish’ *lędeninŭ ‘Neulandbewohner’, later abbreviated to (Ru.) Ljach (Vasmer s.v., EWU s.v. lengyel). Hungarian specialists consider it one of the ancient loanwords preceding the Honfoglalás ‘occupation of homeland’, and as such belonging to the prehistory. How can this opinion be reconciled with the thesis of the arrival of the Slavs in historical times? On the other hand, the Slavic term is also attested in Serb. and Cr. (antiquated) Leđanin ‘Polish’ and (< Hung.) Lenđel ‘idem’, in Byz. Gr. Lenzanenoi (pl.), in Crim. Tat. läh ‘Polish’ (Vasmer s.v. ljach, cp. EWU), as well as in Arab laudzaaneh ‘Polish’. All these lexemes come from the Proto-Slavic name of ‘fallow land’ *lędo ‘Rodung, Neuland’ (Russ. ljadá ‘mit jungem Holz bewachsenes Feld, Neubruch, Rodeland’, Ukr. ljado, BRuss. lado ‘Neuland’, ORuss. ljadina etc., Bulg. léda, lediná ‘Aue, Bergwiese’, Serb. and Cr. lèdina, ledìna ‘Neuland’, Slovn. ledìna, Czech lada, lado ‘Brache’, Slovk. lado, Pol. ląd ‘Land’, USorb. lado ‘Brache’, LSorb. ledo); to the Swedish name for the same notion (linda ‘fallow land’) and to the Germanic name for ‘land’, ‘country’ (Goth. Germ. Engl., Du., Icel., Fer., Norw., Swed. etc. land (Vasmer s.v., cp. Stang 1971, 33, ANEW s.v. land). Baltic, represented in the same family by OPRuss. lindan (acc. s.) ‘valley’, does not partecipate to this semantic isogloss.

As I have already noted aove, etymologists have recognized that the specialized meaning of ‘fallow land’ in Slavic languages must have preceded the more general meaning of ‘land’ of Germanic ones. In the traditional scenario it is simply impossible to explain this chronological sequence – which implies a Slavic priority over Germanic. In Refrew’s, it is impossible to explain how from a typically early Neolithic notion of ‘fallow land’ – which following his premises shoud be PIE, and not Slavic! – such a constellation of different meanings, including ‘Polish’ and ‘land’, might have developeded, and in such different languages as Hungarian and Slavic. In the scenario of the PCT, on the contrary, the nature of this lexical family becomes illuminating, and for these reasons:
(1) it shows the diffusion of the rotation of fallowed fields, a fundamental technique for the origins and the development of farming, in two different ethno-linguistic areas, that of the Slavs (the first European people, with the Greeks and the other Balkans people, who adopted farming) and that of the Germans (already differentiated from Germanic), who learned it from their Eastern neighbors;

(2) it proves, then, the Slavic presence in the area already in Early Neolithic;

(3) in particular, it proves the coexistence of Western Slavs (Poles, Czechs and Slovakians) and Germans in the crucial Carpathian area, where Western ad Eastern Europe meet, in the period of the development of Lengyel, LBK and TRB (the last one responsible of the introduction of farming in Scandinavia), which the PCT attributes, respectively, to Western Slavs and to Germans;

(4) the passage from ‘fallow land’ and ‘newly broken up field’ to ‘land’ and ‘country’, with the further development of ‘inhabitant of a newly tilled land’ and of ‘Polish’, reflect quite closely the history of Neolithic developments, from East to West, and, at the same time, the chronological gap between the Balkanic complex and the LBK;

(5) the technique of fallowing is attested precisely in the LBK culture of Germany and in the Lengyel culture of Central-Eastern Europe, that is precisely in the area that stretches from Germany to Hungary, through former Czechoslovakia and southern Poland;

(6) the fact that the typical Neolithic notion of ‘fallow land’ concentrates in the Slavic area, and appears only marginally in the Germanic one, confirms the Slavic priority in Neolithic development;

(7) the absence of these meanings in Baltic confirms that Baltic was already separated from Slavic in Neolithic; (8) the passage from ‘breaker of new fields’ to ‘Polish’ (appearing, besides in Slavic, also in Hungarian (Lengyel), confirms the presence of Poles in the area already in Neolithic.


To fully appreciate the value of this analsis, however, it is necessary to recall the extraordinary and well-known stability of the LBK culture (the first Neolithic culture of Germany) and the importance of the role of fallowing in the earliest Neolithic cultures. Tringham, for example, has remarked that if the LBK had not used the rotating fallow technique for its new settlements, these would certainly have determined the formation of tells, exactly like in the Balkans. The emblematic example is the site of Bylany in Bohemia, one of the most important Neolithic stations of Europa, with its 21 phases of habitation (Tringham 1971, 115).

- - - - - - - - - -
alinei.jpg


Alinei je genije (ne manje od toga) odan naučnoj istini, što se u društveno-humanističkim naukama pokazalo kao retkost.Greške su moguće, tvrdnje nikad nisu 100-tno sigurne, ali to upućenima ne treba ni reći, dok neki entuzijasti odbijaju i kad im se kaže po peti put, jer njihova su bukvalistička "naučna" putešestvija ustvari, ego tripovi.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Windo - belo,
bonu - temelj, baza
znači Beo-grad :hahaha:

Gluposti.

vindolanda1-1.jpg


Andrew R. Burn, The Romans in Britain, An Anthology of Inscriptions, Oxford, 1969, p. 125.

Kelti udaraju Vindo-slovenskim-qrcem po ledini u drevnoj Britaniji.

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7.6.4 Lexical innovations due to the Neolithic revolution


The presence of the Slavs in their historical area already in Neolithic – and
consequently also in the earlier periods –, can be argued in the light of several semantic
developments. We return first to one we sketched in an earlier section.
The lexical family of Proto-Slavic *lędo ‘fallow land’, Hung. lengyel ‘Polish’, Germ.
land, Swed. linda

The Hungarian ethnonym Lengyel ‘Polish’ (name of the homonym Neolithic
culture) is a loanword from the Slavic name of ‘Poland’ and of ‘Polish’ *lęděninŭ
‘Neulandbewohner’, later abbreviated to (Ru.) Ljach (Vasmer s.v., EWU s.v. lengyel).
Hungarian specialists consider it one of the ancient loanwords preceding the
Honfoglalás ‘occupation of homeland’, and as such belonging to the prehistory. How
can this opinion be reconciled with the thesis of the arrival of the Slavs in historical
times? On the other hand, the Slavic term is also attested in Serb. and Cr. (antiquated)
Leđanin ‘Polish’ and (< Hung.) Lenđel ‘idem’, in Byz. Gr. Lenzanenoi (pl.), in Crim.
Tat. läh ‘Polish’ (Vasmer s.v. ljach, cp. EWU), as well as in Arab laudzaaneh ‘Polish’.
All these lexemes come from the Proto-Slavic name of ‘fallow land’ *lędo ‘Rodung,
Neuland’ (Russ. ljadá ‘mit jungem Holz bewachsenes Feld, Neubruch, Rodeland’, Ukr.
ljado, BRuss. lado ‘Neuland’, ORuss. ljadina etc., Bulg. léda, lediná ‘Aue, Bergwiese’,
Serb. and Cr. lèdina, ledìna ‘Neuland’, Slovn. ledìna, Czech lada, lado ‘Brache’, Slovk.
lado, Pol. ląd ‘Land’, USorb. lado ‘Brache’, LSorb. lědo); to the Swedish name for the
same notion (linda ‘fallow land’) and to the Germanic name for ‘land’, ‘country’ (Goth.
Germ. Engl., Du., Icel., Fer., Norw., Swed. etc. land (Vasmer s.v., cp. Stang 1971, 33,
ANEW s.v. land). Baltic, represented in the same family by OPRuss. lindan (acc. s.)
‘valley’, does not partecipate to this semantic isogloss.

As I have already noted aove, etymologists have recognized that the specialized
meaning of ‘fallow land’ in Slavic languages must have preceded the more general
meaning of ‘land’ of Germanic ones. In the traditional scenario it is simply impossibleto explain this chronological sequence – which implies a Slavic priority over Germanic.
In Refrew’s, it is impossible to explain how from a typically early Neolithic notion of
‘fallow land’ – which following his premises shoud be PIE, and not Slavic! – such a
constellation of different meanings, including ‘Polish’ and ‘land’, might have
developeded, and in such different languages as Hungarian and Slavic.
In the scenario of the PCT, on the contrary, the nature of this lexical family
becomes illuminating, and for these reasons: (1) it shows the diffusion of the rotation of
fallowed fields, a fundamental technique for the origins and the development of
farming, in two different ethno-linguistic areas, that of the Slavs (the first European
people, with the Greeks and the other Balkans people, who adopted farming) and that of
the Germans (already differentiated from Germanic), who learned it from their Eastern
neighbors; (2) it proves, then, the Slavic presence in the area already in Early Neolithic;
(3) in particular, it proves the coexistence of Western Slavs (Poles, Czechs and
Slovakians) and Germans in the crucial Carpathian area, where Western ad Eastern
Europe meet, in the period of the development of Lengyel, LBK and TRB (the last one
responsible of the introduction of farming in Scandinavia), which the PCT attributes,
respectively, to Western Slavs and to Germans; (4) the passage from ‘fallow land’ and
‘newly broken up field’ to ‘land’ and ‘country’, with the further development of
‘inhabitant of a newly tilled land’ and of ‘Polish’, reflect quite closely the history of
Neolithic developments, from East to West, and, at the same time, the chronological gap
between the Balkanic complex and the LBK; (5) the technique of fallowing is attested
precisely in the LBK culture of Germany and in the Lengyel culture of Central-Eastern
Europe, that is precisely in the area that stretches from Germany to Hungary, through
former Czechoslovakia and southern Poland; (6) the fact that the typical Neolithic
notion of ‘fallow land’ concentrates in the Slavic area, and appears only marginally in
the Germanic one, confirms the Slavic priority in Neolithic development; (7) the
absence of these meanings in Baltic confirms that Baltic was already separated from
Slavic in Neolithic; (8) the passage from ‘breaker of new fields’ to ‘Polish’ (appearing,
besides in Slavic, also in Hungarian (Lengyel), confirms the presence of Poles in the
area already in Neolithic.


To fully appreciate the value of this analsis, however, it is necessary to recall the
extraordinary and well-known stability of the LBK culture (the first Neolithic culture of
Germany) and the importance of the role of fallowing in the earliest Neolithic cultures.
Tringham, for example, has remarked that if the LBK had not used the rotating fallow
technique for its new settlements, these would certainly have determined the formation
of tells, exactly like in the Balkans. The emblematic example is the site of Bylany in
Bohemia, one of the most important Neolithic stations of Europa, with its 21 phases of
habitation (Tringham 1971, 115).

- - - - - - - - - -
alinei.jpg


Alinei je genije (ne manje od toga) odan naučnoj istini, što se u društveno-humanističkim naukama pokazalo kao retkost.Greške su moguće, tvrdnje nikad nisu 100-tno sigurne, ali to upućenima ne treba ni reći, dok neki entuzijasti odbijaju i kad im se kaže po peti put, jer njihova su bukvalistička "naučna" putešestvija ustvari, ego tripovi.

Odakle Alineiu dokaz da se Madjari nalaze u (u ovoj nasoj) Panoniji u 2. milenijumu prije Hrista?

Alinei_Madjari.jpg


Alinei2.jpg


Mario Alinei, Etrusco: una forma arcaica di ungherese, Bologna, 2003, str. 422. 428.
 
Poslednja izmena:
"Ima tih slučajnosti sve više i više, dakle Nadiža, Trbiž/Trebež, Gradež,..da ne pričamo van regije Veneto."

Grado nije slovenski naziv, Natisa je predrimski, Trebez, Svrbez qrca, kitom po ledini udri dok se ne poslovenizuje zemlja... sta sve nece biti slovensko jer tako kaze onaj ludi pop Tomazic et al.

Kad se javlja prvi zabiljezen slovenski naziv na tlu danasnje sjeveroistocne Italije?

Tada kada se i javlja prvi zabeleženo ime "Sloven", odnosno "Sloveni".


Ti meni reci kada se javlja prvi zabiljezen slovenski naziv uopšte? Da li si sposoban za tako nešto?
 
Po čemu su ovi koji tvrde to što navodiš stručni, a Alinei koji tvrdi da je Land došlo od slovenskog ledina nije stručan? Baška što je Mallory jedan čudan svat, američki arheolog i američki vojnik, zalutao u lingvistiku da bi lakše potvrdio (svoje?) arheološke snove, za koje je Alinei pokazao da su isprazni, tlapnje bez dokaza. Pa ako ne možemo da potvrdimo arheološki, onda ćemo da podupremo lingvistički. Pazi, ma nemoj. :mrgreen: U ovom slučaju naklapate i zaklapate ti i Mallory, a ja i Alinei govorimo istinu.
Нисам ни очекивао да имаш аргументе и доказе за своја сумасшествија. Идемо даље:
KpyD9q5.png


Vladimir Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology, 2003
Šta je IgarJot do danas na forumu objasnio? Samo je postavljao fotokopije.
То те мало дрма љубомора зато што овде важим за особу која зна коју ствар о језикословљу?

Пише ИгарЈ, молим лепо. Облик којим ме ословљаваш не постоји, те бих препоручио да се не срамотиш опет глумећи знање рускога.
 
Poslednja izmena:
То те мало дрма љубомора зато што овде важим за особу која зна коју ствар о језикословљу?

Uvek sam ti odavao priznanje da si bukvalista-kapacitator, istovremeno sam bo zabrinut za tvoju sposobnost zaključivanja. Jeste. Ljubomora. Uplašio sam se da ćeš Vučku ponuditi traženo objašnjenje - otud ljubomora.
 
A opet te molim da suštinski ne menjaš svoje postove na koje je već odgovoreno. Stalno to radiš menjajući smisao napisanog, katkad i sutradan.

Нисам ни очекивао да имаш аргументе и доказе за своја сумасшествија. Идемо даље:
KpyD9q5.png


Vladimir Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology, 2003

Opet, promašaj. Lepo je objašnjena problematika:


7.6.4 Lexical innovations due to the Neolithic revolution


The presence of the Slavs in their historical area already in Neolithic – and consequently also in the earlier periods –, can be argued in the light of several semantic developments. We return first to one we sketched in an earlier section.

The lexical family of Proto-Slavic *lędo ‘fallow land’, Hung. lengyel ‘Polish’, Germ. land, Swed. linda
The Hungarian ethnonym Lengyel ‘Polish’ (name of the homonym Neolithic culture) is a loanword from the Slavic name of ‘Poland’ and of ‘Polish’ *lędeninŭ ‘Neulandbewohner’, later abbreviated to (Ru.) Ljach (Vasmer s.v., EWU s.v. lengyel). Hungarian specialists consider it one of the ancient loanwords preceding the Honfoglalás ‘occupation of homeland’, and as such belonging to the prehistory. How can this opinion be reconciled with the thesis of the arrival of the Slavs in historical times? On the other hand, the Slavic term is also attested in Serb. and Cr. (antiquated) Leđanin ‘Polish’ and (< Hung.) Lenđel ‘idem’, in Byz. Gr. Lenzanenoi (pl.), in Crim. Tat. läh ‘Polish’ (Vasmer s.v. ljach, cp. EWU), as well as in Arab laudzaaneh ‘Polish’. All these lexemes come from the Proto-Slavic name of ‘fallow land’ *lędo ‘Rodung, Neuland’ (Russ. ljadá ‘mit jungem Holz bewachsenes Feld, Neubruch, Rodeland’, Ukr. ljado, BRuss. lado ‘Neuland’, ORuss. ljadina etc., Bulg. léda, lediná ‘Aue, Bergwiese’, Serb. and Cr. lèdina, ledìna ‘Neuland’, Slovn. ledìna, Czech lada, lado ‘Brache’, Slovk. lado, Pol. ląd ‘Land’, USorb. lado ‘Brache’, LSorb. ledo); to the Swedish name for the same notion (linda ‘fallow land’) and to the Germanic name for ‘land’, ‘country’ (Goth. Germ. Engl., Du., Icel., Fer., Norw., Swed. etc. land (Vasmer s.v., cp. Stang 1971, 33, ANEW s.v. land). Baltic, represented in the same family by OPRuss. lindan (acc. s.) ‘valley’, does not partecipate to this semantic isogloss.

As I have already noted aove, etymologists have recognized that the specialized meaning of ‘fallow land’ in Slavic languages must have preceded the more general meaning of ‘land’ of Germanic ones. In the traditional scenario it is simply impossible to explain this chronological sequence – which implies a Slavic priority over Germanic. In Refrew’s, it is impossible to explain how from a typically early Neolithic notion of ‘fallow land’ – which following his premises shoud be PIE, and not Slavic! – such a constellation of different meanings, including ‘Polish’ and ‘land’, might have developeded, and in such different languages as Hungarian and Slavic. In the scenario of the PCT, on the contrary, the nature of this lexical family becomes illuminating, and for these reasons:
(1) it shows the diffusion of the rotation of fallowed fields, a fundamental technique for the origins and the development of farming, in two different ethno-linguistic areas, that of the Slavs (the first European people, with the Greeks and the other Balkans people, who adopted farming) and that of the Germans (already differentiated from Germanic), who learned it from their Eastern neighbors;

(2) it proves, then, the Slavic presence in the area already in Early Neolithic;

(3) in particular, it proves the coexistence of Western Slavs (Poles, Czechs and Slovakians) and Germans in the crucial Carpathian area, where Western ad Eastern Europe meet, in the period of the development of Lengyel, LBK and TRB (the last one responsible of the introduction of farming in Scandinavia), which the PCT attributes, respectively, to Western Slavs and to Germans;

(4) the passage from ‘fallow land’ and ‘newly broken up field’ to ‘land’ and ‘country’, with the further development of ‘inhabitant of a newly tilled land’ and of ‘Polish’, reflect quite closely the history of Neolithic developments, from East to West, and, at the same time, the chronological gap between the Balkanic complex and the LBK;

(5) the technique of fallowing is attested precisely in the LBK culture of Germany and in the Lengyel culture of Central-Eastern Europe, that is precisely in the area that stretches from Germany to Hungary, through former Czechoslovakia and southern Poland;

(6) the fact that the typical Neolithic notion of ‘fallow land’ concentrates in the Slavic area, and appears only marginally in the Germanic one, confirms the Slavic priority in Neolithic development;

(7) the absence of these meanings in Baltic confirms that Baltic was already separated from Slavic in Neolithic; (8) the passage from ‘breaker of new fields’ to ‘Polish’ (appearing, besides in Slavic, also in Hungarian (Lengyel), confirms the presence of Poles in the area already in Neolithic.


To fully appreciate the value of this analsis, however, it is necessary to recall the extraordinary and well-known stability of the LBK culture (the first Neolithic culture of Germany) and the importance of the role of fallowing in the earliest Neolithic cultures. Tringham, for example, has remarked that if the LBK had not used the rotating fallow technique for its new settlements, these would certainly have determined the formation of tells, exactly like in the Balkans. The emblematic example is the site of Bylany in Bohemia, one of the most important Neolithic stations of Europa, with its 21 phases of habitation (Tringham 1971, 115).

- - - - - - - - - -
alinei.jpg


Alinei je genije (ne manje od toga) odan naučnoj istini, što se u društveno-humanističkim naukama pokazalo kao retkost.Greške su moguće, tvrdnje nikad nisu 100-tno sigurne, ali to upućenima ne treba ni reći, dok neki entuzijasti odbijaju i kad im se kaže po peti put, jer njihova su bukvalistička "naučna" putešestvija ustvari, ego tripovi.




A ti i tvoje fotokopije ste stolećima iza Alineija.
 
Opet, promašaj. Lepo je objašnjena problematika:
A ti i tvoje fotokopije ste stolećima iza Alineija.
Ко је, осим аутохтониста с упалом мозга, прихватио његове тврдње?
Piše inicijal prezimena - Jot. Vuka su oko toga zafrkavali, pa nemoj i ti da zezaš.
Каконо рекох, пише ИгарЈ и не изврћи то.

Будући да само глумиш како знаш нешто о руском, не зачуђује што ниси схватио да ИгарЈ треба дочарати, најпре, руски изговор имена Игорь [ˈiɡərʲ], а тек потом име и иницијал презимена. Циљ је био успоставити континуитет са старим налогом.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Каконо рекох, пише ИгарЈ и не изврћи то.

И за то си ме пријавио модерацији, па, тек токико да видиш колики си лицемер:

Наука још стоји, није обавештена како си уздрмао њене основе, волоче.


Иди до врага, волоче, не изврћи моје речи.

Укључујући јутрошње крштење волоком, које си "јуначки" обрисао када си одлучио да се жалиш на "ИгарЈот". Сам си га изабрао.

Јесте, стидим се ко је све данас Србин. Бљак.

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Ево га, опет мења поруку на коју је одговорено:

Ко је, осим аутохтониста с упалом мозга, прихватио његове тврдње?
Какав је то идиотски аргумент?!? Прихватиће. Вероватно још нису обавештени.
 
Какав је то идиотски аргумент?!? Прихватиће. Вероватно још нису обавештени.

Time pokušava da ti ukaže da je Alinei tek u njegovim vrlo poznim godinama "otkrio" razne teorije zavera i sastavio neki "rad", koji nijedan naučni list, nijedna naučna institucija nije prihvatila. Deretić i kompanija se ne računaju u nauku ;)

Ni oni koje ti smatraš neprijateljima i zaverenicima (CIA i ini Ameri, Vatikan, Nemci i ostatak EU), ali ni "prijatelji", dakle ni Rusi (ah da, oni su potkupljeni), ni Kinezi (oni su... ehmmm, kako sad to?), ni raznorazne banana i polubanana države po Južnoj Americi, uključujući velikane slobodarstva i komunističke misli na Kubi, u Venecueli i slični, ni nesvrstani Afrikanci, ni Azijati, pa čak ni naučne institucije slobodarskog naroda Severne Koreje na čelu sa Najvoljenijim Vođom.

Niko. :think:


Drugim rečima, njegove teorije su taman toliko priznate u nauci koliko i teorije raznih "naučnika", "doktora" i "specijalista eksperata" koji se prezentiraju u Trećem Oku i tvrde da su otkrili Atlantidu, da je Hitler još živ, ili da konzumiranje sredstva za čišćenje WC-a leči rak, kao i teorije antivakcinaša, ravnozemljaša, gravitacija-ne-postoji i sličnih.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Šta misliš o njegovim tezama o autohtonosti Mađara u Panoniji?

Ništa o tome nisam pročitao i za sada nemam mišljenje.

- - - - - - - - - -

Time pokušava da ti ukaže da je Alinei tek u njegovim vrlo poznim godinama "otkrio" razne teorije zavera i sastavio neki "rad", koji nijedan naučni list, nijedna naučna institucija nije prihvatila. Deretić i kompanija se ne računaju u nauku ;)

Ni oni koje ti smatraš neprijateljima i zaverenicima (CIA i ini Ameri, Vatikan, Nemci i ostatak EU), ali ni "prijatelji", dakle ni Rusi (ah da, oni su potkupljeni), ni Kinezi (oni su... ehmmm, kako sad to?), ni raznorazne banana i polubanana države po Južnoj Americi, uključujući velikane slobodarstva i komunističke misli na Kubi, u Venecueli i slični, ni nesvrstani Afrikanci, ni Azijati, pa čak ni naučne institucije slobodarskog naroda Severne Koreje na čelu sa Najvoljenijim Vođom.

Niko. :think:


Drugim rečima, njegove teorije su taman toliko priznate u nauci koliko i teorije raznih "naučnika", "doktora" i "specijalista eksperata" koji se prezentiraju u Trećem Oku i tvrde da su otkrili Atlantidu, da je Hitler još živ, ili da konzumiranje sredstva za čišćenje WC-a leči rak, kao i teorije antivakcinaša, ravnozemljaša, gravitacija-ne-postoji i sličnih.

Stigao si do Atlantide i vakcina, a nisi amebe pomenuo. Suzio ti se repertoar?

Kod Alieia je poenta analogna sa Snježanom Kordić - niko ih nije uzeo u službene naučne listove i svi ćute o njihovim knjigama, ili se bave generalizovanom pljuvačinom, što u slučaju Alineia kopira ovde, greškom prirode prisutni Tandoori. Razlog - istina boli. Teško se i sporo na nju navikavaju.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Ništa o tome nisam pročitao i za sada nemam mišljenje.

Stigao si do Atlantide i vakcina, a nisi amebe pomenuo. Suzio ti se repertoar?

Kod Alieia je poenta analogna sa Snježanom Kordić - niko ih nije uzeo u službene naučne listove i svi ćute o njihovim knjigama, ili se bave generalizovanom pljuvačinom, što u slučaju Alineia kopira ovde, greškom prirode prisutni Tandoori. Razlog - istina boli. Teško se i sporo na nju navikavaju.

Ti ces nekome govoriti kakav je Srbin. Igora blatis kakav je Srbin, a ti nas sve obrukao na najvecem hrvatskom forumu kad si prodavao pamet svoju pustu skolovanim ljudima, svakog Srbina i Srpkinju, to si ti. Nije Igor otisao na forrum.hrr, pa nas sve osramotio.

Sta mene ima da boli? Tvoja istina, koju kupis iz wikipedijske kanalizacije. Kad vidim dokaze, promijenicu misljenje (ne, probably, might, perhaps, possibly), kao sto sam ga promijenio sto se tice desetina stvari.
 
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Gluposti.

vindolanda1-1.jpg


Andrew R. Burn, The Romans in Britain, An Anthology of Inscriptions, Oxford, 1969, p. 125.

Kelti udaraju Vindo-slovenskim-qrcem po ledini u drevnoj Britaniji.

Da, samo što 4. Galska kohorta dolazi u Britaniju oko 122. AD, i to nakon što su jedno četvrt stoljeća bili stacionirani u Meziji.

Cohors quarta Gallorum equitata ("4th part-mounted Cohort of Gauls") was a Roman auxiliary cohort containing both infantry and cavalry contingents. It was probably raised in Gallia Lugdunensis at the time of the founder-emperor Augustus (30BC - 14AD).[1] It is first attested in Moesia in 75 AD and was still in Moesia Inferior in 105. It therefore probably took part in the emperor Trajan's Dacian Wars (99-106). After a brief stay in Thracia (where it is attested in 114), it was transferred to Britannia not later than 122. Its last datable attestation is in 276-82, still at Vindolanda. But the Notitia Dignitatum, a late Roman official document, records a cohors IV Gallorum at Vindolanda under the dux Britanniarum, the commander of limitanei (border forces) along Hadrian's Wall.[2] The Western section of the Notitia was drawn up in the 420's but the British units must date to before 410, when the island was evacuated by the Roman army.

In Britannia, the regiment was stationed in various forts. In the 3rd century it is attested, from 213 onwards, in the fort at Vindolanda (Chesterholm) on Hadrian's Wall, but the regiment's inscriptions have also been found, undatable, at Risingham, Templeborough, Castlehill, Castlesteads and High Rochester. According to Holder, the sequence was Castlehill 144-60, Risingham 160-80 and then at Vindolanda.[3] Castlehill was a fort on the Antonine Wall in Caledonia (Scotland) that was held for only 20 years by the Romans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohors_IV_Gallorum_equitata

Prije njih su bili oni Batavijanci iz Nijmegena. ;)

Claudia Severa was a literate Roman woman, the wife of Aelius Brocchus, commander of an unidentified fort near Vindolanda fort in northern England.[1] She is known for a birthday invitation she sent around 100 AD to Sulpicia Lepidina, wife of Flavius Cerialis, commander at Vindolanda. This invitation was discovered in the 1970s and is probably the best-known item of the Vindolanda Tablets.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Severa

Sulpicia Lepidina was the wife of Flavius Cerialis, prefect of the Ninth Cohort of Batavians, stationed at Vindolanda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulpicia_Lepidina

The best known 'character' at Vindolanda is Flavius Cerialis, prefect of the ninth cohort of Batavians, who lived with his family in the praetorium at Vindolanda in the years around AD 100. His correpsondence accounts for over 80 letters of the published and unpublished tablets. We learn little directly of Cerialis himself, but some things can be guessed of his likely background. The name Flavius suggests that he came from a family that gained the citizenship under Vespasian, perhaps through loyalty to Rome during the Batavian revolt.
http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/exhibition/people-2.shtml

The governor of Britain is occasionally glimpsed in the tablets. One letter (248) implies that Cerialis is soon to meet the governor, in another (225) Cerialis uses an intermediary to gain access to him.

225
"To his Crispinus. Since Grattius Crispinus is returning to ... and ... I have gladly seized the opportunity my lord of greeting you, you who are my lord and the man whom it is my very special wish to be in good health and master of all your hopes. For you have always deserved this of me right up to the present high office (?). In reliance on this ... you first ... greet (?) ... Marcellus, that most distinguished man, my governor. He therefore offers (?) the opportunity now of ... the talents (?) of your friends through his presence, of which you have, I know, very many, thanks to him (?). Now (?), in whatever way you wish, fulfil what I expect of you and ... so furnish me with friends that thanks to you I may be able to enjoy a pleasant period of military service. I write this to you from Vindolanda where my winter-quarters are (?) ..."
http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DL...chField=TVII&thisListPosition=1&thisPageNum=0
 
Da, ali da bih imao mišljenje o radu nije poenta u zaključku nego u naučnom pristupu i metodu.

Ovo je rad iz 2003. kojim se bavim: https://www.scribd.com/doc/138074658/Alinei-Mario-Paleolithic-Continuity-of-Indo-Europeans-in-Europe

Sve je ovo vrlo interesantno. Ja se lično nikada nisam bio dovoljno posvetio ni Mariji Gimbutas o kojoj je već na ovom forumu bilo toliko riječi ali ni ovome tako da zaista ništa pametno ne mogu reći...rekao bih jedino da ne bih kao neki drugi forumaši bio tako izričit u prostom blaćenju čovjeka.

Međutim, meni se čini da si ga ti proglasio genijem ne zbog njegovog rezonovanja i načina na koji objašnjuje stvari, već samo zbog toga što ti se lično sviđaju njegovi zaključci (kao što, recimo, blatiš Radića ne zbog toga što radi već zbog zaključaka u njegovoj borbi protiv novoromantičara).
 
Sve je ovo vrlo interesantno. Ja se lično nikada nisam bio dovoljno posvetio ni Mariji Gimbutas o kojoj je već na ovom forumu bilo toliko riječi ali ni ovome tako da zaista ništa pametno ne mogu reći...rekao bih jedino da ne bih kao neki drugi forumaši bio tako izričit u prostom blaćenju čovjeka.

Međutim, meni se čini da si ga ti proglasio genijem ne zbog njegovog rezonovanja i načina na koji objašnjuje stvari, već samo zbog toga što ti se lično sviđaju njegovi zaključci (kao što, recimo, blatiš Radića ne zbog toga što radi već zbog zaključaka u njegovoj borbi protiv novoromantičara).

Alinei je genije, zato što je nakrcao ogromnu istorijsku i lingvističku materiju u glavu i izveo sasvim novu sintezu. Naučnici koji se bave tim oblastima uglavnom slede postojeći sistem i parcijalno mu doprinose, što je slučaj i sa rečenim Radićem. Radića međutim "općenito" uzev ne mogu poštovati zato što je život posvetio obračunu sa neistomišljenicima, tamo, gde prostora za različita mišljenja ima.
 
Alinei je genije, zato što je nakrcao ogromnu istorijsku i lingvističku materiju u glavu i izveo sasvim novu sintezu. Naučnici koji se bave tim oblastima uglavnom slede postojeći sistem i parcijalno mu doprinose, što je slučaj i sa rečenim Radićem. Radića međutim "općenito" uzev ne mogu poštovati zato što je život posvetio obračunu sa neistomišljenicima, tamo, gde prostora za različita mišljenja ima.

Ne bih rekao da je život posvetio tome...on samo povremeno piše za neke listove i medije i objavljuje jedno djelo - Srbi pre i posle Adama. Teško da se može reći da zauzima čak i nešto bliže centralnom mjestu i njegove karijere i profesije, a kamoli života.
 

Ovo vise nema smisla. Hajde, da vidimo sta hoces prikazes ovdje...

"The regiments entitled Gallorum were all raised in Lugdunensis." Mogli su ici ratovati i na Mjesec ali se vidi odakle su regrutovani.

Holder.jpg


Paul. A. Holder, Studies in the Auxilia of the Roman Army from Augustus to Trajan, BAR Internetional Series, 70, 1980, p. 111.


Na plocicama iz Vindolande se primjecuju keltske glose koje je i Plinije zabiljezio.

Adams1.jpg


Adams2.jpg


James Noel Adams, The Language of the Vindolanda Writing Tablets: An Interim Report, The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 85, 1995, pp. 127-128.

Ti Batavijanci se nalaze na latenskoj teritoriji, tamo je pronadjeno dosta arheoloskih artefakata, tako da je ipak keltska komponenta (sisa) prevladala u njihovoj etnogenezi.
 
Sve je ovo vrlo interesantno. Ja se lično nikada nisam bio dovoljno posvetio ni Mariji Gimbutas o kojoj je već na ovom forumu bilo toliko riječi ali ni ovome tako da zaista ništa pametno ne mogu reći...rekao bih jedino da ne bih kao neki drugi forumaši bio tako izričit u prostom blaćenju čovjeka.

Međutim, meni se čini da si ga ti proglasio genijem ne zbog njegovog rezonovanja i načina na koji objašnjuje stvari, već samo zbog toga što ti se lično sviđaju njegovi zaključci (kao što, recimo, blatiš Radića ne zbog toga što radi već zbog zaključaka u njegovoj borbi protiv novoromantičara).

Ne znam za Mrkalja ali ja lično ne dajem priznanje g. Alinei-u zato što mi se njegova teza sviđa, nego zato što verujem da je to tako. Ja mislim da ako neko hoće da proučava PIE jezik, njegove korene, razvoj,... da prosto ne može nikako mimo poznavanja slovenskih jezika. Zašto? Zato što kao prvo zauzimaju največi deo Evrope, zvanično zauzimali su ih i u 6., 7. veku. I ako priznamo da se je PIE jezik razvio negde u srednjoj Aziji, i ako priznamo da Sloveni potiču negde iza Karpata onda logično moraju Sloveni, slovenski jezici biti bliži tom PIE jeziku od svih ostalih evropskih jezika. I kada pogledamo to je tačno - eto ti samo jedan primer - a ima ih gde kog "zagrebeš" - vuka (srp.), prasl. *vьlkъ, PIE *wĺ̥kʷos.
Može li mi neko od lingvista objasniti ovaj slučaj vuka?

Ne samo da u Evropi i svetu nema dobrih poznavaoca slovenskih jezika, nema ih ni kod samih Slovena ili ih ima veoma malo. Jedan od dobrih poznavaoca slovenskih jezika jeste sigurno i g. Alinei. To jeste sigurno jedan od razloga zašto on piše to što piše. On je ako se ne varama Italijan dakle nema nikakve potrebe da bi glorifikovao Slovene i slovenski jezik na osnovi etničke pripadnosti. Čovek ima 90 godina, dakle on jeste sebi već stvorio karieru i ne treba mu nikakvo dokazivanje pred ostalima, on prosto sada radi na osnovu svog znanja, iskustava i bez ikakvih prepreka, bez ikakvih pritisaka.

Da li moram opet da napomenem šta je rekao Benjamin Kalaj za najbolje slovenske lingviste u 19. veku?


Da se vratim na g. Alinei-a. Mislim da ste neki namerno propustili njegovo obrazloženje reči kozolec:
Da vidimo šta kaže Mario Alinei za kozolec (građevina koja služi za sušenje trave - sena)

Pogledajte prilog 376179Pogledajte prilog 376180

"Pored jezikoslovnih, etnoloških, kulturoloških, religioznih i ostalih objašnjenja Alinei detaljno obradi i pitanje kozolca, uspravne građevine za sušenje trave, koja po njemu spada među glavne dokaze za praistorijsko prisutnost Slovana u centralnim i istočnim Alpama. Ime kozolca, koji potiče od koza (srp. jarac), jeste prodrlo na Tirolsko (po Schuchardtu i Shtreklju) – kesn, kösn, köss, kos'n, na Koruško – köse, u Sapado i u Sauri – keis'n, u Furlanijo i od tamo u alpske doline u obliku – casuz (čitaj: kazuc!), sigurno iz slovenačkog jezika kozuc (Huber, Pirona i.dr.), a na kraju i u Madžarsku – kazal (Schuchardt in dr.). Po Alineijevem uverenju, pošto je ime kozolec slovenačkog izvora, jeste slovenačkog i kultura njegove upotrebe".
http://www.livesjournal.eu/library/lives3/lucvu3/veneti3g.htm
 
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