Istočnogermanska ili zapadnoslovenska plemena?

Da, da, nisam znao kako Ćići sebe nazivaju samo sam znao da je drugačije od Cincara. Ali opet očigledna je ralika Armanji i Ramari. Značenje jeste isto - Romani. Ali nijansiranost može ukazivati na različitu etnogenezu. Recimo jedni od romanizovanih Kelta a drugi od, lupam, nekakvih romanizovanih Ilira ili ko god je već obitavao na ovim prostorima. Kako ostale vlaške grupacije sebe nazivaju?

Власи који су опстали до данас себе називају Români или Rumâni (Румуни), Armâni или Rămani (Цинцари), и Rămări (Ћићи). За остале као што су били Власи Бугарско Влашког Царства; или за Морлаке које Поп Дукљанин назива Nigrim Latinima; или за панонске Влахе у деветом веку које Мађар Anonymus of Geza у Gesti Hungarorum назива Pastores Romanorum не знамо.
 
Eto, Alinei pise da treba odbaciti uvrijezeno misljenje da su Madjari dosli u Panoniju "u 10. vijeku", te da njihovo prisustvo tamo treba pomjeriti unazad vise hiljada godina.

Pošto je Alinei bio professor emeritus Univerziteta u Utrehtu, a ovaj Barry Cunliffe sa videa je sa Univerziteta u Oxfordu, možemo zaključiti da su dotične institucije pseudonaučne te ćemo sve radove povezane sa njima odbaciti. :kafa:

Evo recimo jedan komentar Henry Sweeta na Indo-Uralsku hipotezu, "čovjeka koji je Evropu naučio fonetici" - Howatt, Anthony Philip Reid; Widdowson, Henry George: A History of English Language Teaching. Oxford University Press (2004), p. 198–207.

Sweet considered the relationship to be securely established, stating (1900:120; "Aryan" = Indo-European, "Ugrian" = Finno-Ugric):

If all these and many other resemblances that might be adduced do not prove the common origin of Aryan and Ugrian, and if we assume that the Ugrians borrowed not only a great part of their vocabulary, but also many of their derivative syllables, together with at least the personal endings of their verbs from Aryan, then the whole fabric of comparative philology falls to the ground, and we are no longer justified in inferring from the similarity of the inflections in Greek, Latin, and Sanskrit that these languages have a common origin.
https://archive.org/stream/historyoflanguag00swee#page/120/mode/2up
 
Ja mislim da su Kelti slovenska kasta.

Svakako je zanimljiva je etimologija riječi druid.

Etymology[edit]
Borrowing from French druide, from Old French, via Latin, from Gaulish. The earliest record of the term is reported in Greek as Δρυΐδαι ‎(Druḯdai) (plural), cited in Diogenes Laertius in the 3rd century CE. The native Celtic word for "druid" is first attested in Latin texts as druides (plural) and other texts also employ the form druidae (akin to the Greek form). It is understood that the Latin form is a borrowing from Gaulish. The word is cognate with the later insular Celtic words, Old Irish druí ‎(“druid, sorcerer”) and early Welsh dryw ‎(“seer”).

The proto-Celtic word may be *druwits ‎(literally “oak-knower”), from Proto-Indo-European *dóru ‎(“tree”) and *weyd- ‎(“to see”).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/druid

drvovidi?
 
Pošto je Alinei bio professor emeritus Univerziteta u Utrehtu, a ovaj Barry Cunliffe sa videa je sa Univerziteta u Oxfordu, možemo zaključiti da su dotične institucije pseudonaučne te ćemo sve radove povezane sa njima odbaciti. :kafa:

Evo recimo jedan komentar Henry Sweeta na Indo-Uralsku hipotezu, "čovjeka koji je Evropu naučio fonetici" - Howatt, Anthony Philip Reid; Widdowson, Henry George: A History of English Language Teaching. Oxford University Press (2004), p. 198–207.


https://archive.org/stream/historyoflanguag00swee#page/120/mode/2up

Kakve sve to veze ima sa tvojim prethodnim odgovorima o picensko-venetskom pismu, tj. vezama? Znas li cime se Alinei bavio kad je bio mladji? Barry "best guess" Cunliffe.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Kakve sve to veze ima sa tvojim prethodnim odgovorima o picensko-venetskom pismu, tj. vezama? Znas li cime se Alinei bavio kad je bio mladji?

Da nije bio mlađi vodnik u vojnoj policiji?

Kako misliš "mlađi", ja mislio on se rodio star kao Pavle Vujisić.

Barry "best guess" Cunliffe.

Je li onda i čitava zapadna istoriografija "best guess" ili "the best guess", mojne da si cherry picking. :lol:
 
Da nije bio mlađi vodnik u vojnoj policiji?

Kako misliš "mlađi", ja mislio on se rodio star kao Pavle Vujisić.



Je li onda i čitava zapadna istoriografija "best guess" ili "the best guess", mojne da si cherry picking. :lol:

Alenei u ovim knjigama sigurno nije lupao gluposti o Madjarima u Panoniji prije 5.000 godina: La struttura del lessico 1974; Spogli elettronici dell'italiano letterario contemporaneo), 1971; Dizionario inverso italiano: con indici e liste di frequenza delle terminazioni, 1962; Lingua e dialetti: struttura, storia e geografia, 1984; Dal totemismo al cristianesimo popolare: sviluppi semantici nei dialetti italiani ed europei, 1984;

Jesi li procitao Barryjeve radove o Keltima?
 
Poslednja izmena:
Kakve sve to veze ima sa tvojim prethodnim odgovorima o picensko-venetskom pismu, tj. vezama?

Nego da se vratimo na prethodnu raspravu, da se ovo ne bi pretvorilo u ko-je-šta-bio-acainformacija tip diskusije.

Ta kultura se odvaja od lokalnih italskih i ukazuje na balkansko podrucje.

"Utvrdjena je cinjenica, da kultura starijeg zeljeznog doba u Picenumu ima u sklopu italskih kultura u Hallstattu facies sui generis, po kojoj se ostro odvaja od svih okolnih italskih kultura. Dosadasnja plodna prethistorijska istrazivanja u toj oblasti omogucila su da se utvrdi areal te kulture. Ona se pruza uglavnom uz relativno uski primorski pojas s ovu stranu Apenina, od Atri do Pesaro, a prema unutrasnjosti samo uz korita brojnih manjih rijeka. Sjeverno od nje proteze se podrucje nosilaca Villanova kulture, na koju se dalje nastavlja areal kulture Este. Zapadno od Picenuma nastavlja se podrucje Etruska, a juzno od Picenuma podrucje Fossa kulture, kako se vidi iz karte, koju je nedavno donio K. Kromer."

Suic.jpg


Mate Suic, Prilog poznavanju odnosa Liburnije i Picenuma u starije zeljezno doba, Vjesnik za arheologiju i historiju dalmatinsku, LV, 1953, Split, str. 78.

O tome je prije desetak godina pisao i Pierpaolo Di Carlo, samo sto se dotakao i jezicnih spomenika (natpis iz Novilare), sem arheoloskih.

"While a definitive solution seems distant, it is ultimately clear that both on linguistic and archeological ground the references to the opposite shores of the Adriatic Sea are so numerous that they must be taken into account in order to solve the core problem of this research."

Pitanje:

Koje je tvoje mišljenje o Picenima i Liburnima u globalu.

Da li misliš da imaju dodirnih tačaka. Ako da, koje su to? Ako ne, zašto?

Da li je bilo pokušaja dešifrovanja natpisa iz Novilare i dokle se stiglo.

- - - - - - - - - -

Заиста је невероватно што два индоевропска језика имају сличности.

Kako se danas u keltskoj familiji živih jezika kaže za drvo a kako za vidjeti?
 
Alenei u ovim knjigama sigurno nije lupao gluposti o Madjarima u Panoniji prije 5.000 godina: La struttura del lessico 1974; Spogli elettronici dell'italiano letterario contemporaneo), 1971; Dizionario inverso italiano: con indici e liste di frequenza delle terminazioni, 1962; Lingua e dialetti: struttura, storia e geografia, 1984; Dal totemismo al cristianesimo popolare: sviluppi semantici nei dialetti italiani ed europei, 1984;

Jesi li procitao Barryjeve radove o Keltima?

Hoćeš da kažeš kako evropski univerziteti u svojim redovima imaju trojance, zanimljivo. To onda menja njihov kredibilitet, i njihov rejting možemo proglasiti za smeće, te radove drugih naučnika ne možemo uzimati za ozbiljno dok se ti univerziteti ne ograde od pseudonaučnika kao što se naš sjajni Univerzitet u Beogradu ogradio od pseudonaučnika Đorđa Jankovića
 
Колико сам ја схватио, Cunliffe није аутохтониста у смислу аутохтониста на овом форуму (тј. да су Словени увек били Словени и увек живели на Балкану) него да је језик као фарба: данашњи народи су исход последњег фарбања а испод фарбе су исти као њихови преци пре неколико миленија, мада су ти преци говорили друге језике.
 
Grad Lugano
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugano

Šta prvo pomislite kada čujete reč Lugano? Ja bih rekao da je to povezano sa rečju lug (sloven. log):
močvarna livada kraj vode, ponekad porasla sa drvečem; nekada lug znači samo šumu
http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=log&hs=1

I na kakvom terenu se nalazi Lugano? Procenite sami:
https://www.google.si/maps/@46.0183136,8.9723098,13z/data=!5m1!1e4


Interesantno jeste i to da su Kelti imali božanstvo Lugus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus
 
Nego da se vratimo na prethodnu raspravu, da se ovo ne bi pretvorilo u ko-je-šta-bio-acainformacija tip diskusije.



Pitanje:

Koje je tvoje mišljenje o Picenima i Liburnima u globalu.

Da li misliš da imaju dodirnih tačaka. Ako da, koje su to? Ako ne, zašto?

Da li je bilo pokušaja dešifrovanja natpisa iz Novilare i dokle se stiglo.

- - - - - - - - - -


?


Ne moze tako. Ovdje smo stali.

Kad postavljas natpise na ovoj temi, navedi literaturu, do posljednje stranice i gdje su pronadjeni. Prema tome, napisi podatke za ta dva napisa.

Zasto bas venetskih i picenskih? Sta cemo sa retskim i lepontskim?

Morandi_V_R_L_G.jpg


Alessandro Morandi, nav. djelo, str. 176.

Zasto si povezao picenski i venetski (a izostavio retski i lepontski), samo zbog pisma ili neceg drugog?

Hoćeš da kažeš kako evropski univerziteti u svojim redovima imaju trojance, zanimljivo. To onda menja njihov kredibilitet, i njihov rejting možemo proglasiti za smeće, te radove drugih naučnika ne možemo uzimati za ozbiljno dok se ti univerziteti ne ograde od pseudonaučnika kao što se naš sjajni Univerzitet u Beogradu ogradio od pseudonaučnika Đorđa Jankovića

Hocu da kazem da Alinei nije ranije lupao gluposti o Madjarima nego se bavio naukom. Ne mozes porediti tu dvojicu etnicki neopterecenih ljudi sa Djordjem Jankovicem. Njegova uloga tokom devedesetih u sluzbi nacionalne arheologije je jako poznata. Tu je dobrano uprskao stvar kad je trazio anticko srpsko gov.no scucureno ispod gomile kamenja u Bosni, vrsio kaubojska iskopavanja, pritom unistavajuci vec postojece spomenike ili jeftinim madjionicarskim trikovima ispljunuo ranosrednjovjekovnu (srpsku) grncariju na Primorju.
 
Bože, Mrkalje, šta se dešava to sa tobom?

Renesansa. Nekada nisu postojale države i jezici su mogli koegzistirati na istoj teritoriji.

- - - - - - - - - -

Какви запањујући аргументи у прилог твојој тобожњој хипотези, дедер их обзнани свету да сви виде истину.

Ne primećuješ jer si konstantno zapanjen.
 
Извор и назив дела :

Wiener Studien zur Skandinavistik
herausgegeben von Robert Nedoma (Wien) und Sven Hakon Rossel (Wien)
zusammen mit Hans Basbøll (Odense), Poul Houe (Minneapolis), Hermann Reichert (Wien), Roger Reidinger (Wien) und Stephan Michael Schröder (Köln)
Band 15
Praesens Verlag Literaturwissenschaft | Sprachwissenschaft
Musikwissenschaft | Kulturwissenschaft
Wien 2006

Donecker-Steinacher_RexVandalorum_001.jpg



*
Rex Vandalorum – The Debates on Wends and Vandals in Swedish Humanism as an Indicator for Early Modern Patterns of Ethnic Perception

STEFAN DONECKER (UNIVERSITÄT WIEN) / ROLAND STEINACHER (ÖSTERREICHISCHE AKADEMIE DER WISSENSCHAFTEN)


Текст у фокусу, стране 242,243 :

,,For more than four hundred years, up to the accession of the present king Carl XVI Gustaf in 1973, did the Swedish monarchs hold the title “King of the Wends“. The first evidence of this claim dates from the reign of Gustav I Vasa (1523-1560), who adopted the title Sveriges, Göthes och Wendes Konung in official sources around the year 1540. In Latin documents, the threefold title was translated as rex Suecorum, Gothorum Vandalorumque.

The equation of Wendes konung, “King of the Wends”, and rex Vandalorum, “King of the Vandals” in administrative and diplomatic usage provides a vantage point for discussing the relationship between these two ethnonyms in Swedish humanist resp. gothicist thought.1 This specific case study on Wends and Vandals promises valuable insights concerning the patterns of self-perception, the concepts of identity and otherness as well as the importance of ethnicity in the scholarly discourses of early modern Sweden.

The German word Wenden is documented as a synonym for Slavs since the 6th century A.D. (Jordanes, Getica ed. Mommsen 62: Venethi, Var. -ti, - di). Medieval authors also used Wandali instead of Wenden/Slavs.2 The first sources containing this equation are the glossary of Wessobrunn, dating from the 9th century, and the so-called glossary of Salomon. The “Frankish Table of Nations” – a brief genealogy of peoples that, in essence, proceeds from Tacitus’ threefold division of the Germans – can be regarded as the main source for the identification of Slavs/Wends with the Vandals. Traces of this text can be isolated in several medieval sources; especially in the Chronicon Vedastinum and the 13th century Polish chronicle of Mierszwa. Danzig, Lübeck, Wismar, Rostock, Stralsund, Königsberg, Riga and other Hanseatic cities were known as wendische Städte/vandalicae urbes since the 14th century. This denomination is undoubtedly a relic of the early medieval identification of Wends and Vandals.3

So far, historical research has failed to provide an adequate explanation for the equation of Wends and Vandals. The primary aim of the identification, however, seems to have been the integration of the Slavs, the "newcomers and nomads"4 of early medieval Europe, into a western and Frankish conception of history. Several early modern scholars tried to justify the equation with deliberate distortioons of history referring to the so-called Pseudo-Berossos and Tacitus.5

The Hamburgian humanist Albertus Krantz (1448-1517) discussed the interaction of Slavs and Vandals in his Chronica regnorum aquilonarium. The threefold name of the Slavs in the famous passage in Jordanes’ Getica is explained by Krantz in the following way: The three Slavic groups – the Veneti, the Slavs and the Antes – were identical with the ancient Vandals. The existence of three different names was merely a consequence of the large number of these Slawo-Vandals and the many different places they inhabited.

*

[1] The question has been touched briefly by Hans Hildebrand, “Heraldiska studier I. Det svenska riksvapnet.” Antiqvarisk tidskrift för Sverige, 7 (1884), 59; Emil Hildebrand, Svenska statsförfattningens historiska utveckling från äldsta tid till våra dagar (Stockholm 1896), 231; Olof Söderqvist, “Sveriges, Götes och Vendes konung.” Statsvetenskaplig tidskrift, 12 (1909), 299ff. In the early 1980s, the Finnish historian Matti Klinge discussed the topic of Wends and Vandals in greater details, devoting special attention to Johannes Messenius’ Scondia Illustrata. Cf. Matti Klinge, Östersjövälden. Ett illustrerat historiskt utkast (Stockholm 1985), 140-166.

[2] Cf. Friedrich Seibt, “Wenden.“ Handwörterbuch zur deutschen Rechtsgeschichte 5, 1259-1261; Christian Lübke, “Wenden (Winden).“ Lexikon des Mittelalters 8, 2181f.; Jutta Reisinger/Günter Sowa, Das Ethnikon Sclavi in den lateinischen Quellen bis zumJahr 900 (= Glossar zur frühmittelalterlichen Geschichte im östlichen Europa, Beiheft 6; Stuttgart 1990), 18-20; Frantisek Graus, Die Nationenbildung der Westslawen im Mittelalter (= Nationes 3; Sigmaringen 1980), 61.

[3] Cf. Roland Steinacher, “Wenden, Slawen, Vandalen. Eine frühmittelalterliche pseudologische Gleichsetzung und ihre Nachwirkungen.“ Die Suche nach den Ursprüngen. Von der Bedeutung des frühen Mittelalters. Walter Pohl, ed. (= Forschungen zur Geschichte des Mittelalters 8; Wien 2004), 329ff.; Roland Steinacher, “Vandalen – Rezeptions- und Wissenschaftsgeschichte.“ Der Neue Pauly 15/3, 942-946.

[4] Florin Curta, The Making of the Slavs. History and Archaeology of the Lower Danube Region, c. 500–700 (= Cambridge Studies in Medieval Life and Thought. Fourth Series; Cambridge 2001), 23.

[5] Apart from Krantz and Cromer the topic has been discussed by Johannes Dubravius, Johann Christoph Schurtzfleisch, Nicolaus Marschalk, Bernhard Latomus, Johannes Simonius, David Chytraeus and Nicolaus Leuthinger. Cf. Roland Steinacher, “Vandalen im frühneuzeitlichen Ostseeraum. Beobachtungen zur Rezeption antiker ethnischer Identitäten im 16. und 17. Jahrhundert.“ Die Geschichte der Antike aktuell: Methoden, Ergebnisse und Rezeption. Karl Strobl, ed. (= Altertumswissenschaftliche Studien Klagenfurt 2; Klagenfurt 2005), 279-298.

Donecker-Steinacher_RexVandalorum_008.jpg
 
Извор и назив дела :

Wiener Studien zur Skandinavistik
herausgegeben von Robert Nedoma (Wien) und Sven Hakon Rossel (Wien)
zusammen mit Hans Basbøll (Odense), Poul Houe (Minneapolis), Hermann Reichert (Wien), Roger Reidinger (Wien) und Stephan Michael Schröder (Köln)
Band 15
Praesens Verlag Literaturwissenschaft | Sprachwissenschaft
Musikwissenschaft | Kulturwissenschaft
Wien 2006


*

Текст у фокусу стране 244,245,246 :

,,The name Slavs was the one used most regularly, whereas the term Vandali was the oldest one, which can be traced back to Tacitus.6 In Krantz’s main work, Wandalia, he therefore avoids Sclavi and uses Wandali instead, even if Sclavi are mentioned in a cited source. Thus, according to Krantz, the Slavs are not Asian Scythians, but Europeans as testified by Tacitus and Berossos. The rule and seigniorial power of the Holy Roman Empire over the Slavic peoples are stressed and legitimated with this deliberate alteration of history.7

The Polish humanist Martin Cromer (1512-1589) strove to create a Polish history independent from the western neighbours and therefore tried to confine the ample concept of Vandal identity designed by Albertus Krantz. In 1555 his Polish history in thirty books was printed, entitled De origine et rebus gestis Polonorum. Cromer confronted the historical ideas of German humanists with a pronouncedly Polish and Slavic attitude in order to generate a genuine Slavic prehistory. Cromer starts his treatise with the remark that the Polish are a Slavic people first and foremost (Primum omnium constat, Polonos Slavicam gentem esse). The Slavs are Sarmatians, descending not from Noah’s son Japheth, but rather from Sem. According to Cromer, the Slavs settled in former Vandal territories. Rebutting Krantz’ equation of Vandals and Wends, he unmistakably distinguishes between Germanic Vandals on the one and Slavic Wends on the other hand.8

Both Krantz’ and Cromer’s theories were well-known in early modern Sweden and were the cause of significant debates and discussions. The 16th and 17th centuries marked the heyday of Swedish Gothicism, when the Swedish monarchy asserted its Gothic heritage to increase its prestige and justify its expansionist policies.9 Though far from undisputed, the elaborate doctrine of Gothicism played a crucial role in the intellectual life of early modern Sweden.

It is therefore undoubtedly appropriate to start an overview of Vandal hypotheses in early modern Sweden with the most prominent exponent of 16th century Gothicism: Johannes Magnus (1488-1544), the exiled last Catholic archbishop of Uppsala. His Gothorum Sueonumque Historia was finished in 1540 and printed in 1554. Magnus broadly follows Jordanes’ 6th century Getica. In a short passage he explains his view of the relation between Wends and Vandals: After having defeated the Heruli the Goths ruled by their king Armanaricus10 attacked the Veneti. Johannes Magnus alters Jordanes’ report and replaces the Veneti with Vandali. He states that the latter – according to the ancient author Ablavius – are a part of the Slavs (nec Sclavonica gens a Vandalica, nisi solo nomine differebat). Because of the Sclavonica gens being split up in so many nationes, they bear different names. Thus the Vandals differ from the gens Slavonica only by their ethnonym. Armanaricus defeated the Vandals and was able to establish his reign in vast territories up to the coast of the Maris Germanici. Johannes Magnus thereby demonstrates the great variety of possible political interpretations of ancient history.11

The protestant theologian and reformer Olaus Petri (1493-1552) is commonly regarded as the most ardent critic of Gothicism in 16th century Sweden. In his Swedish chronicle, En swensk cröneka (~1540), Olaus displayed a pronouncedly sceptic attitude towards the genealogical connections between ancient Goths and contemporary Swedes that formed the core of gothicist self-perception during Gustav I Vasa’s reign. Olaus subsequently fell from grace and was condemned for high treason in Örebro 1539/40. Early drafts of his chronicle were quoted in the accusation to prove that Olaus had slandered king and nobility.

The Swenska cröneka touches the topic of Wends and Vandals in a brief excursus12 that might seem insignificant. Bearing the chronicle’s complicated development in mind,13 it proves, however, to be a significant indicator for the importance of Wends in gothicist thought: The initial version dismisses a linguistic affinity between the Goths – the putative ancestors of the Swedes – and the Wends as very unlikely. Later revisions dating from the years after the Örebro trial extenuate the initial repudiation and concede that there might be a certain relatedness between Goths and Wends after all. Olaus and his revisers, possibly including his brother Laurentius Petri, included references to Albert Krantz and to Helmold of Bosau’s Chronica Slaworum – which had been edited for the first time in 1556 – in later versions of the chronicle, in order to prove that they were familiar with the latest literature on Wends and Vandals.“



*

[6] Albertus Krantz, Rerum Germanicarum historici claris regnorum Aquilonarium, Daniae, Sueciae, Norvagiae chronica […] (Cologne 1546), 241; Cf. Viktor Anton Nordmann, Die Wandalia des Albert Krantz (= Annales Academiæ scientiarum Fennicæ B 29: 3; Helsinki 1934), 28ff.; Steinacher, “Vandalen im frühneuzeitlichen Ostseeraum“ [footnote 5].

[7] Albertus Krantz, Wandalia. De Wandalorum vera origine […] (Cologne 1519), I, 6 and Praefatio; The content of this voluminous tome is summarized by Nordmann, Die Wandalia des Albert Krantz [footnote 6], 49-74.

[8] Martin Cromer, De origine et rebus gestis Polonorum libri XXX (Basle 1550), 32f. Cf. Steinacher, “Vandalen im frühneuzeitlichen Ostseeraum“ [footnote 5].

[9] Important literature on Swedish Gothicism includes: Sten Lindroth, “Göticismen.“ Kulturhistorisk leksikon for nordisk middelalder fra vikingetid til reformationstid 6, 35-38; H[arald] Ehrhardt, “Goticismus.” Lexikon des Mittelalters 4, 1573-1575; F[ritz] Paul, “Gotizismus.“ Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde 2 12, 461- 466; Gustav Löw, Sveriges forntid i svensk historieskrivning (Stockholm 1908-10), I, 50-160; Johan Nordström, De yverbornes ö. Sextonhundratalsstudier (Stockholm 1934); Josef Svennung, Zur Geschichte des Goticismus (= Skrifter utgivna av K. Humanistiska vetenskapssamfundet i Uppsala 44: 2B; Stockholm 1967). In her recent dissertation, Inken Schmidt-Voges displays a critical attitude towards these older research traditions, characterising Gothicism and its mythic subtext as an example of ethnocentric historiography. Cf. Inken Schmidt-Voges, De antiqua claritate et clara antiquitate Gothorum. Gotizismus als Identitätsmodell im frühneuzeitlichen Schweden (= Imaginatio borealis 4; Frankfurt 2004).

[10] In Jordanes’ Getica 117-118, Armanaricus is named Hermanaricus. (Iordanis Romana et Getica, Theodor Mommsen, ed. [= MGH AA 5, 1; Berlin 1882], 88.)

[11] Johannes Magnus, Gothorum Sueonumque Historia (Rome 1554), VI, XXII, 219.

[12] Olavus Petri, ”En Swensk Cröneka”, Jöran Sahlgren, ed. Samlade skrifter af Olavus Petri 4. Bengt Hesselman, ed. (Uppsala 1917), 9.

[13] The following assumptions are based on Efraim Lundmark, “Redaktionerna av Olavus Petris Svenska krönika. Översikt och gruppering av handskrifterna.” VetenskapsSocieteten i Lund, Årsbok 1940, 13-76. Differing opinions on the development and the various revisions of Olaus Petri’s Swenska cröneka have been put forward by Lars Sjödin and Gunnar T. Westin. (Lars Sjödin, “Tillkomsten av Olaus Petri krönika.”


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Donecker-Steinacher_RexVandalorum_010.jpg
 
Lužički Srbin Hanuš, profesor filozovije koji je napisao dvotomnu slovensku mitologiju piše o tome da su se nekada svi Sloveni nazivali Srbi; to kaže i Sreten Petrović u svojoj knjizi:


Ne zaboravimo da to kaže i pokojni g. Žiković.


A Benjamin Kalaj kaže da su se po ispitivanjima naboljih slovenskih lingvista svi Sloveni nekada nazivali Srbi.

Ime Srbi

"Ime slovan. plemena *Sъrby (ed. *Sъrbinъ) jeste prema objašnjenju najverovatnije nastalo od apelativa *sъrbъ 'onaj koji pije mleko od iste majke', tvorene od *sъrbati gutati (sloven. srkati), srebati (uporedi dijalekt. sloven. srbati, rus. sërbatъ). Originalno značenje 'onaj koji pije mleko iste majke' potrebno je u plemeskom imenu shvatiti kao 'pripadnik istog roda'. Slovan. apelativ *sъrbъ očuvalo se u slagalici *pa-sъrbъ 'onaj koji nije pio mleko iste majke' (slovan. *pa- jeste prefiks sa značenjem 'netačan' uporedi sloven. pastorek 'netačan sin' i mlađe pakobul 'netačan kobul'), što je očuvano u polj. pasierb, dialekt. rus., ukr., belorus. paserb 'pastorek, i u ukr. glagolu pryserbytysja 'udružiti se'. Na to nas upučuje i to, da jeste vlastito ime moguče motivisano nakon pijenja mleka, na šta nas upučuje češ. naselje Mlekosrby" (Snoj, 2009, str. 535).

Snoj M. Etimološki slovar slovenskih zemljepisnih imen. Ljubljana: Založba Modrijan in Založba ZRC, 2009.
 
Poslednja izmena:
VENEZIA (sloven. Venecija)
Već samo ime navodi na to da su ga osnovali Veneti (Sloveni). Dakle osnovali su ga ljudi iz AKVILEJE (sloven. Oglej) - naseobina uz granicu sa Slovenijom - koji su bežali prema pred Hunima u 5. veku
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venecija


»U izvorima, iz doba rimskog carstva, zovu se Sloveni Venedi, isto tako kao Winidi u Nemačkoj u srednjem veku; Nemci ih još i danas zovu u Saskoj i Istočnim Alpima Vendi, Vindi (Wenden, Winden). Sloveni nisu nikada upotrebljavali ovo ime, čije poreklo i značenje nije poznato« (Jireček, 1988, str. 37).


Herodot piše da su Veneti i Iliri jedan isti narod.

Geograf Tolomej iz Aleksandrije kaže da su Veneti (Venedi) veliki narod koji čini dobar deo Sarmatije.

A Mavro Orbini piše "Ovi Tolomejevi Veneti su današnji Sloveni".



As shown by the comparative material, Germanic languages had two terms of different origin: Old High German Winida 'Wende' points to Pre-Germanic *Venétos, while Lat.-Germ. Venedi (as attested in Tacitus) and Old English Winedas 'Wends' call for Pre-Germanic *Venetós.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Veneti


"Benetke (sloven.), Venezia (ital.)
Od iste rom. pridevske osnove preuzet je i star. hrv. Mleci i nem. Wenedig..." (Snoj, 2009, str. 503).
 
Poslednja izmena:

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