Slovensko nasleđe u Grčkoj

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Some basic rules:
1. You have to look at the first part of the toponym, not only the ending. If it has a meaning in slavic languages, then you have to see if you find it in the slavic countries.
2. You have to see if the slavic meaning of the toponym "fits" the characteristics of the place. Also, you have to see if it can be a word-loan that is also used by Albanians or Vlachs or Greeks.
3. You have to look at the toponyms of nearby places. If you see a "slavic" toponym in the middle of Vlach or Greek or Albanian toponyms, it possbily is not related to Slavs.

And, as said before, the history of each place is very important. A place might had a slavic population, but maybe later they moved on and others came to live there.
 
AELarisa:
A study on the -ovo -ova -itsa -ista toponyms of Greece.
It is in greek language and unfortunately i do not know if there is any translation.

https://issuu.com/akouts/docs/toponimia_ovo_ova_ista_itsa

In brief, the writer says that not all such toponyms have been given by Slavs, although the majority is related somehow to Slavs. Someone has also to look at the history of each place. Some place may had a slavic name because Slavs once lived there, but maybe later the place was abandoned and others came to live there (eg Vlachs, Albanians).
I would say the same for surnames that have similar endings. The majority of them show some slavic origin, however it can also be a surname that was given to a non Slav that lived in a place with a slavic toponym. So, it is important to see where you find that surname and what history there is behind it.
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I believe I have mentioned this book before and posted a few pages - in this thread, post #271 (it might be a different version/book of the same author though).

URL:
https://forum.krstarica.com/showthr...mija-Grčke?p=34230402&viewfull=1#post34230402

Copy/Paste from that post - slightly edited (AELarisa, please correct any mistakes):

Page 21 -

a) Three important names of the Peloponnese: Arahova, Araklovo and Akova mentioned in the Chronicle of Morea are Latin (Vlach) and not Slavic origin

b) The Vlachs came to the Peloponnese well before the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, and well before the Fourth Crusade

c) It is possible that the Vlach nomads of Epirus (North and South) and central Greece arrived in the Peloponnese in waves from the 8th century - a time when the Slavic tribes did, in fact, appear in Morea - until the 12th century, to cover the population gaps created by the plague that occurred there at the beginning of the 8th century, as well as the accumulated hardships of the previous epochs

Page 160 -

Vlachs reached and arrived as far south as Messenia and Laconia


Some of the old toponyms of Peloponnese: Akova, Araklovo, Isova, Beresova, Zitsova, Gialova, Tsimova, Tsekova, Vipovo, Arahova, Palova, Kosova, Levetsova, Saidova, Santova, Trikotsova, etc
 
Poslednja izmena:
Yes, it is the same author but older version. It does not include the -itsa -ista toponyms.
You speak greek Carlin15?

About Arahova / Rahovo / Rahove :
He says that we have to see if that tree (orah) can be found there and if we find other slavic toponyms around. The conclusion is that only some of these toponyms could have come from the name of the tree. The rest are probably from greek word (also used by Vlachs of Greece) rahi = mountain peak line.
 
The Vlachs in Greece were mentioned for the very first time at the 10th century and in most texts they appear as invaders that come together with the Bulgarians.
So, they cannot have any connection to the Slavs (Sklavini / Sklavenites) of the 5th or 6th century.
Many Slavs were already considered as Greeks (Romans) when the Vachs arrived.
The Vlachs did not have mixed weddings with other people. Till recently they had the tradition to get married only with Vlachs. So, the Vlachs are unlikely to have been mixed up much with the Slavs or the Greeks.
 
haeul:
Carlin

Bear in mind, Carlin and I were taking specifically about the Peloponnese, which was Hellenised long before the formation of the modern Greek nation-state and the era of modern schooling, mass literacy and mass media. Had these people learnt their Greek though exposure to the liturgical language alone, their language would have lacked Greek words for anything that wasn't spoken of in the church (at least, initially, before their increasing exposure to Standard Greek in the 19th and 20th century).
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Map of languages spoken in 1890 in Peloponnese, less then 130 years ago, long after formation of the modern Greek nation-state. The core of the new Greek state, fully hellenized, I don't think so.
Pelopones_ethnic.JPG
 
Atentator:
Map of languages spoken in 1890 in Peloponnese, less then 130 years ago, long after formation of the modern Greek nation-state. The core of the new Greek state, fully hellenized, I don't think so.
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Would you say that it's mostly non-Greek? Clearly not.

My point stands. Either those Greeks came from somewhere else, or the local population, of whatever origin it may be - and we were talking specifically about the Slavs - was largely Hellenised by then.
 
Poslednja izmena:
AELarisa Yes, it is the same author but older version. It does not include the -itsa -ista toponyms.
You speak greek Carlin15?
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Euharisto. Den milao romaika (ellinika).

Whatever I know I learned it myself. I mostly use google translate - I believe it's improved in recent years.

Would I be able to ask you to provide accurate translations of a couple of interesting paragraphs? I can post the scans later on, it is Page 75, footnote 206 of the book by Sokratis Liakos, "The origins of the Armani (Vlachs)". The other one is on page 111, footnote 304.

What I got out of it is as follows:
- "Vlach word is preserved even today in the villages of Mesa Mani (= Inner Mani). From Maniot dictionary of Corsica also shows that before 1680 Maniates rescued many other Vlach words and verb forms, like: alafrunesko, meinesko, plithunesko, etc. Furthermore, names and surnames of Mani residents of the same period were pure Vlach".
- "The inhabitants of mountain villages of the Peloponnese were blend of Orthodox (Christian) populations, which of course, confirms the existence of the Vlachs, which arises from an order of the Venetians (1688), and from Mani songs that send out to the devil the Vlach language..."

Let me know if you'd be able to translate it for us and I can post the pages. Thanks. Euharisto!
 
I already have posted a video with Vlachs (Armani) from Greece.

In Greece the term "Vlach" is used in many cases for people that are not truly Vlachs. It has the meaning of "non educated / villager".

And why did you post this here and not in the topic about the Vlachs?

By the way, have you read the newspaper article that you posted? :D
 
Сребрена:
AELarisa,

...this is from facebook, do you see "mpelo more", white sea, in this text, as someone on facebook says ?
http://oi67.tinypic.com/a9u3uq.jpg
Kliknite za proširenje...

It talks about two people, Kavellari and Bellamore. Bella more = nice berries in italian.
Both typical italian.
As far as i see, the text refers to Zakynthos. Zakynthos was a place primarily inhabited by Albanians/Arvanites, that had chosen italian surnames when the place was under Venetian rule.
Also the name of the Peloponnese, Morias, comes from the italian word mora. The translation of that in Albanian is Mani and this is how the name of Mani came from. They had many berry trees there.
 
AELarisa:
Also the name of the Peloponnese, Morias, comes from the italian word mora. The translation of that in Albanian is Mani and this is how the name of Mani came from. They had many berry trees there.
Kliknite za proširenje...
Unlikely, because Morea, well before the Venetians. is mentioned as the name of a small bishopric in Elis during the 10th century. This is during the re-christianization period of the peninsula. Consider also that is precisely Elis region exclusively Slavic at the time, so more plausible that the term comes from the word More - sea.
https://books.google.com/books?id=e...=onepage&q=morea first mentioned Elis&f=false
 
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