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Slovensko nasleđe u Grčkoj
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Mrkalj
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Steno može da bude grčkog iskona u značenju zemljouza, suženja, tj. Uskog polja, Uskoplja, Skoplja.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=stenosis
steno-
before vowels sten-, word-forming element meaning "narrow," from Greek stenos "narrow, strait," as a noun "straits of the sea, narrow strip of land," also metaphorically, "close, confined; scanty, petty," from PIE *sten- "narrow."
Pa opet, sama reč steno- može da ima veze sa slovenskim stena.
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https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3512908,20.6715149,10.75z
Steno Ithakis - Itački moreuz (tesnac)
AELarisa
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Kardamyli is probably greek. Some others are clearly slavic.
1. Jalova.
2. Velika.
3. Hrani.
4. Gorica.
What is the meaning of Jalova??
1. Jalova.
2. Velika.
3. Hrani.
4. Gorica.
What is the meaning of Jalova??
Mstislav
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Incapable of producing offspring.
Сребрена
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Kardamili (Greek: Καρδαμύλη, variously transliterated as Kardamyle, Cardamyle, Kardhamili, and Kardamyli, and sometimes called "Skardamoula" /"Σκαρδαμούλα"/, especially on old maps) is a town by the sea....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardamyli
On page 174 and 175 of the pdf book attached below, it is suggested by the author that Jalova (Gialova) comes from the Greek word jalos/gialos, which means a settlement located by the sea. Fallmerayer thought the origin was from jela (= fir / έλατο) which the author rejected as incorrect, because, as he explains, where Jalova is located in this region of the Peloponnese there are mostly pebbles and beaches and not many forests.
URL pdf - Stathis Asimakis - Toponyms -ova, -ovo, -ista, -itsa (in Greece):
https://www.arachovamuseum.gr/files/pdfs/toponimia_ovo_ova_ista_itsa_new.pdf
In the link below, which appears to cite "Vlachs and Arvanites in the Morea", from the book Anevokatevates -- it is stated that there were Vlach "huts" (τα βλάχικα καλύβια της Γιάλοβας) in Jalova/Gialova. If I understood it correctly this and many other villages were settled by Vlach shepherds from Likohia, Roinou, Bardzeli, Vidi, Arkoudorema, Stemnitsa (Arcadia). In the map you provided (above), we can also see a place called Vlahopoulo located to the north of Jalova. (You may be better suited to provide more accurate translations.)
URL:
https://www.arkadiapress.gr/ιστορία/15268-τσοπάνηδες-της-αρκαδίας-στα-χειμαδιά-της-μεσσηνίας.html
Mrkalj
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Jalova means barren in Slavic-Serbian.
barren ˈbar(ə)n/ adjective
adjective: barren; comparative adjective: barrener; superlative adjective: barrenest
1. (of land) too poor to produce much or any vegetation.
"Region of the Peloponnese where are mostly pebbles and beaches" - dakle, upravo - Jalova ("land too poor to produce much or any vegetation").
You may be right. I am not a linguist though.
I was just citing/explaining what Asimakis wrote, and am not aware of anyone else attempting to explain this toponym. Perhaps both Fallmerayer and Asimakis were wrong. A Greek word with ending -ova does seem odd and unconvincing here.
Mrkalj
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That guy, Fallmerayer, doesn't seem to be up to his task. Jela never had a root wowel a. Especialy in South Slavic where it preserved its protoslavic e.
✧ prasl. * (j)edla (polj. jodła) ← ie. *h[SUB]1[/SUB]edhlo- (lat. ebulus, stprus. addle)
The noun jela or jelka comes from the verb jesti (eat), and its root jed, since firs seeds are edible. So, jela was jedla in protoslavic where Romans and Prussians borrowed their words (ebulus) from.
AELarisa
Zainteresovan član
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- 144
And what about Yalova city of Vithynia (the territory where the Byzantines moved Slavs from Greece) in Turkey sir?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalova
Well what do you know - TURKISH toponym then (?)
Mrkalj
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✧ prasl. *jalovъ (rus. jálovyj, polj. jałowy), latv. jels: sirov
Сребрена
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За земљорадничку традицију изузетно је битно колико је земља плодна, почев од неолитских житних поља. Нема шансе да су Турци- ратоборни номади обраћали пажњу на састав земљишта, свака им је била добра за постављање чадора на путу до новог плена. "Јалова" им је, по оном линку, кућа на жалу.
Погледала сам , колико се могло, флору Јалове у данашњој Турској : много шуме и макије ( само 25 посто земље на којој данас гаје воће, највише киви..дакле нема пшенице ни осталих жита) и много соли :
https://journals.openedition.org/echogeo/12481?lang=en
За наше појмове, тамошња земља је недовољно плодна.
Ево драстичног примера јаловине :
Any ideas or suggestions about the following toponyms?
From here:
https://www.arachovamuseum.gr/files/pdfs/toponimia_ovo_ova_ista_itsa_new.pdf
- Elova
- Kerasovo
- Horigovo
- Erkista
- Sivista
- Tseklista
- Kursovo
- Melovo
- Mirokovo
- Vendista
- Gralista
- Meritsa
- Glikovo
- Santovo
- Humpovo
- Kukuvista
- Zavitsa
- Versova
From here:
https://www.arachovamuseum.gr/files/pdfs/toponimia_ovo_ova_ista_itsa_new.pdf
- Elova
- Kerasovo
- Horigovo
- Erkista
- Sivista
- Tseklista
- Kursovo
- Melovo
- Mirokovo
- Vendista
- Gralista
- Meritsa
- Glikovo
- Santovo
- Humpovo
- Kukuvista
- Zavitsa
- Versova
Bajo Pivljanin
Domaćin
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Тузла је турска реч за место где се гомила со. Тузла у Босни се пре турског освајања звала Соли.
Ahladitsa Argolida, staro ime Dardiza.
URL:
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αχλαδίτσα_Αργολίδας
"Other important buildings of the settlement are Aspros Molos, built by a noble family as a benefit to the fishermen of Ermioni and the Vlach chapel of Panagia..."
URL:
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Αχλαδίτσα_Αργολίδας
"Other important buildings of the settlement are Aspros Molos, built by a noble family as a benefit to the fishermen of Ermioni and the Vlach chapel of Panagia..."
AELarisa
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Dardiza is clearly albanian, from the word darde = pear. And guess what....pear in greek is ahladi.
So, you found an albanian toponym that has been translated into greek, and...??
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I never said it is turkish.
You said that it is greek and i ask why we find the same toponym in Turkey, in the region that we had slavic settlements.
By the way, in Greece we have many toponyms that come from the word gialos and none of them has the ending ovo/ova. You know why? Because when you say gialos you already refer to a place, so you can't add ovo/ova.
cronnin
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Sad gledam:
From Old Albanian dardh, from Proto-Albanian *darda, from Proto-Indo-European *dard- (compare Lithuanian dardė́ti ‘to rattle’, Welsh godyrddu ‘to mumble’).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derdh#Albanian
Ovo je ustvari drndati?
https://sr.wiktionary.org/wiki/drndati
Dardiza is clearly albanian, from the word darde = pear. And guess what....pear in greek is ahladi.
So, you found an albanian toponym that has been translated into greek, and...??
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I never said it is turkish.
You said that it is greek and i ask why we find the same toponym in Turkey, in the region that we had slavic settlements.
By the way, in Greece we have many toponyms that come from the word gialos and none of them has the ending ovo/ova. You know why? Because when you say gialos you already refer to a place, so you can't add ovo/ova.
This is one of my previous comments (reply to Mrkalj). I never said that it's Greek - it was what Asimakis wrote.
I'm actually "suspicious" now that some of these -ova toponyms might be Turkish, but I could be wrong.
PS:
Dardiza is just another proof that many of the original toponyms in the Peloponnese were actually not Slavic, but had/have other origins. I don't doubt that this toponym might have been "translated" into Greek like you explained. Is it "common practice" (in modern Greek) to suffix some names or toponyms with -itsa?
Mrkalj
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So it seems. Drndati, drmati, drhtati, drkati derive as the variations of the same Slavic root (proishode kao varijacije istog korena).
dȓndati nesvrš. 〈prez. -ām, pril. sad. -ajūći, gl. im. -ānje〉
Izvedeni oblici
Definicija
| 1. | (što) raditi drndalom, razrjeđivati zgrudanu vunu |
| 2. | () a. proizvoditi zvukove slične jednoličnom radu kolovrata; zvrndati, kloparati, štropotati b. loše ili dosadno svirati na kakvom instrumentu |
| 3. | (se) tresti se, drmati se u vožnji |
✧ ekspr., v. drmati
✧ prasl. *dьrmati (sl. drmat': vući, trzati)
http://hjp.znanje.hr/index.php?show=search_by_id&id=fF9gWRM=
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... i onda ga proizvedu za "indoevropski" koren upoređujući ga sa litvanskim (dakle baltoslovenskim) dardė́ti ‘to rattle.
Umesto da se pridoda moru srpskih pozajmljenica u albanskom kreol jeziku.
cronnin
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Рекло би се да су Албанци овако брали крушке пре више векова:
Albanians (Arvanites) of the northwestern Peloponnese in the 15th century
In the first years after the conquest of the new territories, the Ottoman administration drew up, for tax purposes, detailed inventories of the population by settlement. These include the names of the heads of each family (tax unit).
Such a record, referring to the region of northwest Peloponnesus or five nahias of Morea (Kalandrica, Grebena, Hlumica, Gardičko, Vomiro), concerning the years 1461-1463, exists in the library "Cyril and Methodius" in Sofia, Bulgaria.
The elements of this book were published in Sofia in 1977 by Petya Assenova, Rusi Stoykov and Toma Katzori entitled "Settlements, personal and family names from northwestern Peloponnese in the middle of XV century" or "Names of villages, individuals and families from the north-west Peloponnese in the mid-15th century. "
URL:
http://www.lithoksou.net/p/onomatep...boreiodytikis-peloponnisoy-ton-15o-aiona-2009
In the first years after the conquest of the new territories, the Ottoman administration drew up, for tax purposes, detailed inventories of the population by settlement. These include the names of the heads of each family (tax unit).
Such a record, referring to the region of northwest Peloponnesus or five nahias of Morea (Kalandrica, Grebena, Hlumica, Gardičko, Vomiro), concerning the years 1461-1463, exists in the library "Cyril and Methodius" in Sofia, Bulgaria.
The elements of this book were published in Sofia in 1977 by Petya Assenova, Rusi Stoykov and Toma Katzori entitled "Settlements, personal and family names from northwestern Peloponnese in the middle of XV century" or "Names of villages, individuals and families from the north-west Peloponnese in the mid-15th century. "
URL:
http://www.lithoksou.net/p/onomatep...boreiodytikis-peloponnisoy-ton-15o-aiona-2009
AELarisa
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Albanians in NW Peloponnese were few.
Here is a detailed map with the movements and settlements of albanian tribes during Middle Ages..
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Back on topic now..
The German historian Hertzberg informs us that at the place where the ancient Amyclae (a place close to Sparta) stood, we now find a place called Slavohori (= slavic village) and at the place of ancient Mycenae we find the slavic town of Harvati.
Here is a detailed map with the movements and settlements of albanian tribes during Middle Ages..
- - - - - - - - - -
Back on topic now..
The German historian Hertzberg informs us that at the place where the ancient Amyclae (a place close to Sparta) stood, we now find a place called Slavohori (= slavic village) and at the place of ancient Mycenae we find the slavic town of Harvati.
Lesandar
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