Slovensko nasleđe u Grčkoj

[haeul]

Except vrba- tree, we have similar name for plant :vrbenahttps://sr.wiktionary.org/sr/verbena

Врба (vrba) is 'willow' in English. If there are any willow trees in the area, that may explain the name of the town.

Did they mean "without hair"?

I've been asked by Srebrana to clarify what she meant. Влас (vlas) translates to 'scalp hair'. Usually a single strand, but it can refer to scalp hair in general. It can also means 'strand of yarn', so the name may have something to do with wool.

I'd like to put forward an alternative theory. Veles may derive from в(о) лес (v(o) les), which literally translates to 'in forest'. This 'in forest' may not apply specifically to the town in question, as toponyms were often transplanted.

 

[haeul]

River Voidomatis (vode mati),

Again, just relaying what Srebrana shared with me in Serbian.

Voidomatis may derive from вода (voda) + матица (matica). The first word is simply 'water', as you already know, but the second one is a bit tricky. From what I can gather, based on her explanation (I have no prior knowledge of this), the word is used to describe the deepest part of the river along its entire course (it doesn't refer to a specific segment). It may help to think of it as a river within the river, or a narrower channel within a wider one. There's probably a term for it in English, but I have no idea what it is.

 

[AELarisa]

Except vrba- tree, we have similar name for plant :vrbena https://sr.wiktionary.org/sr/verbena

..today famouse as magic- antidot- plant against vampires, like in serial The Vampire Diaries

Third possible source I see, about toponims Vervena/Vervitza, could be one almost forgotenn serbian verb: "Vreviti", present today only in some dialects. It means "talking", "make conversation", so Vervena can be, in this sense, the place where conversation is going on.
Today, we use in serbian noun "vreva" as " noise, clamor " https://sr.wiktionary.org/sr/vreva

Fourth, we have very old traditional "Verbitza" day, The feast of Vrbica (Врбица), day before "Cveti" (Lazarus Saturday before Palm Sunday). On "Verbitza day" start Lazarice ritual, a procession of six or more maids, singing "lazarice song" with willow branches and small bells in hands .

The place has many willow trees, so the most probable is that it is from the name of the tree.

Vodomatica je vodena matica, glavni tok vode=matica, rečna matica.

Molim te, Haeule, ako imaš vremena, da lepo objasniš našem sagovorniku..ja ne znam tu reč na engleskom (stream nije isto), kao što ne znam ni englesku reč za "vlas", povodom naziva Volosa.


P.S. Deo diskusije koja se odnosi striktno na Vlahe prebačen je na temu o Vlasima (Vlasi, balkanski fenomen), deo je kopiran pa postoji i tamo i ovde.

Врба (vrba) is 'willow' in English. If there are any willow trees in the area, that may explain the name of the town.


I've been asked by Srebrana to clarify what she meant. Влас (vlas) translates to 'scalp hair'. Usually a single strand, but it can refer to scalp hair in general. It can also means 'strand of yarn', so the name may have something to do with wool.

I'd like to put forward an alternative theory. Veles may derive from в(о) лес (v(o) les), which literally translates to 'in forest'. This 'in forest' may not apply specifically to the town in question, as toponyms were often transplanted.

Ah ok.
No, never heard of such an explanation for the name of Volos.


Srebrena, did you go to Sutrali beach when you were in Volos?
I think it is slavic too, from the word of tomorrow. It is on the side where the sun rises, so could mean something related to sunrise (tomorrow land).

A toponym that I cannot explain, also in the Volos region, that seems to be slavic, is Damuhari. Could be something like da muka? I don't know.

 

[Сребрена]

Srebrena, did you go to Sutrali beach when you were in Volos?
I think it is slavic too, from the word of tomorrow. It is on the side where the sun rises, so could mean something related to sunrise (tomorrow land).

A toponym that I cannot explain, also in the Volos region, that seems to be slavic, is Damuhari. Could be something like da muka? I don't know.

Let me guess : Damouchari.."Мuka" is old term for flour, so Mucha+ri can be something like "millers", those who produce flour.

Spojler

I don't know Sutrali beach.
My friends from Volos had a hotel in Agios Ioannis, Zagora district, where I worked for few years during the summer..
I heard there various mythological stories about Pelion mountain as the seat of the Gods http://walking-pelion.blogspot.rs/2014/08/pelion-mythology-and-history.html
Tomorow I will write to you my opinion about toponim Volos

About Θεσσαλίας /Thessaly , what is "Tesa"?

 

[haeul]

About Θεσσαλίας /Thessaly , what is "Tesa"?

'Thessaly' is of uncertain etymology. Some claim it to be an Illyrian name of unknown origin.

In any case, it's a very old toponym, already attested in Ancient Greek.

 

[Mrkalj]

Srebrena, did you go to Sutrali beach when you were in Volos?
I think it is slavic too, from the word of tomorrow.

Is there a convincing Greek etymology for παραλία (paralia), Greek for beach?

[TABLE="class: gt-baf-table"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]beach[/TD]
[TD]παραλία, αμμουδιά, ακρογιαλιά[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]coast[/TD]
[TD]ακτή, παραλία, ακρογιαλιά, γιαλός[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]seashore[/TD]
[TD]παραλία, γιαλός[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]littoral[/TD]
[TD]παραλία[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]seaside[/TD]
[TD]παραλία, ακτή[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]shore[/TD]
[TD]ακτή, όχθη, παραλία, υποστήριγμα[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]strand[/TD]
[TD]νήμα, πλεξούδα, παραλία, ακτή, τρίχες, νήμα σχοινιού[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]coast line[/TD]
[TD]ακτές, παραλία[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]sea coast[/TD]
[TD]ακτή, παραλία[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]tidewater[/TD]
[TD]παραλία[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]sea board[/TD]
[TD]παραλία, ακτή[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

My gues would be: from Slavic verb prati - to wash. The complete slavic analogue, respectfully to modern Slavic morphology would be - pralja, and more certain pralia in the past.

 

[Mrkalj]

Thessaly is of uncertain etymology. Some claim it to be an Illyrian name of unknown origin.

In any case, it's a very old toponym, already attested in Ancient Greek.

It doesn't have to be of unknown origin if we accept possibility of Illyrians being Slavs in which case the etymology would be the same as for the surname of Tesla - the verb tesati, past form tesali, designating a place where lot of woodcarving occured, possibly for the purpose of boat building.

 

[AELarisa]

Let me guess : Damouchari.."Мuka" is old term for flour, so Mucha+ri can be something like "millers", those who produce flour.

Spojler

I don't know Sutrali beach.
My friends from Volos had a hotel in Agios Ioannis, Zagora district, where I worked for few years during the summer..
I heard there various mythological stories about Pelion mountain as the seat of the Gods http://walking-pelion.blogspot.rs/2014/08/pelion-mythology-and-history.html
Tomorow I will write to you my opinion about toponim Volos

About Θεσσαλίας /Thessaly , what is "Tesa"?

Pelion was the place the gods chose for their vacations.
That says it all.
Sutrali is close to Agria, Zagora is on the other side of Pelion.

Damuhari was basically a refuge for sailors, on the same side as Zagora. I don't know if there were mills there, I will search it.

'Thessaly' is of uncertain etymology. Some claim it to be an Illyrian name of unknown origin.

In any case, it's a very old toponym, already attested in Ancient Greek.

It doesn't have to be of unknown origin if we accept possibility of Illyrians being Slavs in which case the etymology would be the same as for the surname of Tesla - the verb tesati, past form tesali, designating a place where lot of woodcarving occured, possibly for the purpose of boat building.

Thessaly was known as a place dominated by Pelasgians in ancient times, so the name can have come from the -lost for ever- language of Pelasgians (it was not Greek and not Indoeuropean).
If it is from Greek, it could be from thesis and als, "location by the sea".
The name is very ancient and it is not clear where it came from. The inner part of Thessaly was also known as Pelasgiotis, while the region of Volos was Thessaliotis. So, it is very possible to be Greek.

Is there a convincing Greek etymology for παραλία (paralia), Greek for beach?


My gues would be: from Slavic verb prati - to wash. The complete slavic analogue, respectfully to modern Slavic morphology would be - pralja, and more certain pralia in the past.

Paralia = para + als = on the limits of the sea / by the sea

 

[Carlin15]

While Vervitsa could likely be Slavonic, I fail to see how this term is related to Verveni and Vervena? According to which linguistic rules Verveni and Vervena have and contain Slavonic phonetic forms and endings?

The same goes for the example Servou (Servu).

Interestingly, there is a page "Clarification of the origin of the name Servou" - here is the link (it's mostly in Greek so I am sure I don't need to translate it - there are some parts in English as well so others can take a look as well):
https://www.servou.gr/2013-06-23-10...krinisi-gia-tin-proelefsi-tou-onomatos-servou

 

[haeul]

You're repeating yourself.

Unlike Pravi Vlah, with whose earlier ludicrous claims you appear to have found no issue, the rest of us are simply exchanging ideas and putting forward theories. We are not making absolute claims that anything is or isn't Slavic.

Would it surprise you to learn that many "Vlach shepherds" have Slavic blood? The Slavic influence of which we speak here needn't necessarily date back one or two hundred years. It could be from ten centuries ago. Thus, an alleged Vlach presence, or even dominance within a particular area, at a give time, in no way negates the possibility of a Slavic or Greek presence.

As Larisa pointed out at the very start, some in Greece are reluctant to admit that they are anything but 'purely Greek', and are disinclined to admit to anything that may point to a possible non-Greek presence in their village, city, country. Does it honestly seem logical to you that someone should neglect to so much as mention the possibility of a connection between 'Servou' and the Serbian ethnonym? How does one manage to overlook something so obvious? Bear in mind, this is Greece; it is highly unlikely that they wouldn't have herd of the Serbs. Why, then, is this perfectly plausible theory ignored? Does it really not warrant mentioning?

It's akin to a hypothetical situation of a linguist in Serbia claiming that 'Метохија' cames from 'метох(=ставих) и ја', and completely ignoring the Greek 'μετοχή' as its obvious origin.

 

[AELarisa]

One more Greek that says bullshit and tries to hide the slavic origin of a toponym.
According to guys like him, even Zagora or Zitun are not slavic.
So, everyone is free to write his opinion on the net, but this of course does not prove anything.


Let's go now to Selitsani (Selican), Larisa and see some traditional dances. The village is now renamed to Anatoli. It is close to the Aegean sea.

 

[Carlin15]

You're repeating yourself.

Unlike Pravi Vlah, with whose earlier ludicrous claims you appear to have found no issue, the rest of us are simply exchanging ideas and putting forward theories. We are not making absolute claims that anything is or isn't Slavic.

You are delusional if you think I am the one that has absolute claims of any sort. I am quite open to learn, exchange ideas/theories. Moreover, I am free to change my opinions and beliefs based on newly discovered evidence, documents, insight, and/or arguments. I would even say that some of my own opinions on different topics may likely be wrong or incorrect.

The only reason I repeated myself is that I don't know how my post ended up in the other thread - even though I meant to post it here. Perhaps I somehow made a mistake posting it there, or it was Moved there.

Anyway, if you don't like what I shared regarding the derivation/etymologies of Verveni/Vervena/Servou that is your point of view - but it's rather laughable for you to assert that I have absolute claims. The presence of Slavonic toponyms throughout Greece is a scientific fact.

PS: I am also repeating the following - I already posted it on this forum long time ago.

Some testimonies regarding Slavs, Vlachs (and Albanians) in Arcadia and the Peloponnese, we can read here ---> http://proinosmorias.gr/2013/04/10/maratha-epetnrida-2013/

"In the 6th part (pp. 173-256), there are plenty of extraordinary works: the history of the Peloponnese (Κώστα Μ. Σταμάτη), .... , the Slavs and Vlachs in Arcadia (Βασ. Χαραλαμπόπουλου), on the descent of Arvanites to the Peloponnese (Χρ. Γ. Ρώμα) ..."

 

[haeul]

but it's rather laughable for you to assert that I have absolute claims.

I did nothing of the sort. You ought to read more carefully.

 

[Carlin15]

In the screenshot below, taken from Tibor Zivkovic, we can see how both Mantineia and Olympia (in the Peloponnese) were entirely empty and deserted by the time Slavs arrived and settled here.



(PS: What is also rather interesting - but not for this thread - is the significant presence of Jews in the towns outlined above.)

 

[haeul]

He doesn't say "entirely empty and deserted", but rather, 'abandoned'.

It's worth bearing in mind that the Greeks eventually returned, and that the local Slavs were Hellenised long before the liberation.

 

[Carlin15]

He doesn't say "entirely empty and deserted", but rather, 'abandoned'.

I summarized and used my own words to express what T. Zivkovic wrote.

Besides, what's the difference?

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/abandoned

 

[haeul]

I summarized and used my own words to express what T. Zivkovic wrote.

Besides, what's the difference?

Strictly speaking, there is a difference, though slight:

• "Entirely empty and deserted" means that not a soul remained.
• "Abandoned" needn't necessarily.

 

[Carlin15]

It's worth bearing in mind that the Greeks eventually returned, and that the local Slavs were Hellenised long before the liberation.

It seems highly improbable that these areas were colonized by a population of Greek origin, because in 805, as we know, for want of Greeks, Sparta (which was surrounded by the Slavonic Ezeritae in the Evrotas valley) had to be colonized by Armenians, Thracesians/Thracians, and Capheri (Kafirs - likely 'renegade' Arab Muslims who had converted to Christianity), who seem to have formed the nucleus of the subsequent population of Laconia.

Cyril Mango. Byzantium: The Empire of New Rome. Scribner's, 1980:

Was Hellenization, for example, a conscious aim of the imperial government, and if so, how was it implemented and with what success? And if it succeeded in the Middle Ages, why had it not done so in Antiquity under conditions of a more settled life and a higher civilization?

When we look at our scanty sources; we realize that the formulation of the above questions does not correspond to the Byzantine way of thinking. First of all, the very designation 'Greek', which we use so freely today to describe those Byzantines who did not belong to any alien group, is entirely absent from the literature of the period. An inhabitant of Greece south of Thessaly would have referred to himself as a Helladikos (a name already current in the sixth century AD), but he could have been a Slav as well as a 'Greek'. The same holds true of other regions whose dwellers called themselves by the names of their respective provinces, for example Paphlagonians or Thraksians (after the Thraksian 'theme' in western Asia Minor). Since, therefore, there was no notion of 'Greekness', it is hard to see how there could have been one of 'hellenization'. The only passage, to my knowledge, that may imply something of the kind says that the Emperor Basil I converted the Slavonic tribes from their old religion and, 'having grecized them (graikosas), subjected them to governors according to Roman custom, honoured them with baptism, and delivered them from the oppression of their own rulers'. It has long been, however, a matter of dispute what the term 'grecized' may mean in the present context. What we do hear about, again and again, is the conversion of various peoples to Orthodox Christianity, be they pagan Slavs or Muslim Cretans, and the setting up of an ecclesiastical organization. Here is how the Chronicle of Monembasia describes the activity of the Emperor Nicephorus I in the Peloponnese: 'He built de novo the town of Lacedaemon and settled in it a mixed population, namely Kafirs, Thraksians, Armenians and others, gathered from different places and towns, and made it into a bishopric.' Surely, neither the Kafirs (possibly a generic term for converts from Islam) nor the Armenians would have contributed to the hellenization of Laconia. The emperor's purpose was simply to implant a Christian population and set up a bishopric.

URL:
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/med/mango.asp

 

[haeul]

It seems highly improbable that these areas were colonized by a population of Greek origin, because in 805, as we know, for want of Greeks, Sparta (which was surrounded by the Slavonic Ezeritae in the Evrotas valley) had to be colonized by Armenians, Thracesians/Thracians, and Capheri (Kafirs - likely 'renegade' Arab Muslims who had converted to Christianity), who seem to have formed the nucleus of the subsequent population of Laconia.

I've noticed that you are prone to taking 'deserted' very literally. Reality is rarely so extreme.

Had Laconia been completely abandoned by the Greeks, no Greek toponyms would have remained. And yet, plenty remain. How does that fit into your picture? And even more importantly, how would these people have been Hellenised if there were no Greeks around? You can learn how to say 'cross' from а priest, but it's quite unlikely that 'blockhead' would have ever been uttered within the sacred confines of a church.

there was no notion of 'Greekness'

This is a preposterous claim. You stubbornly hold onto this ridiculous notion that a significant portion of today's Greeks were somehow assembled from just about anyone but the Greeks, and yet, they ended up speaking Greek and professing themselves Greeks. It simply doesn't work like that.

 

[Сребрена]

Let's go now to Selitsani (Selican), Larisa and see some traditional dances. The village is now renamed to Anatoli. It is close to the Aegean sea.

It doesn't have to be of unknown origin if we accept possibility of Illyrians being Slavs in which case the etymology would be the same as for the surname of Tesla - the verb tesati, past form tesali, designating a place where lot of woodcarving occured, possibly for the purpose of boat building.

I also have associations with the verb tesa+ti but for other reasons : Tesalija is the largest fertile plain in Greece, like it is "tesana" ( was hewn?) between 6 mountains. Smooth flat area...as if it was carved ("tesan")..tailored to the mountains..

 

[Carlin15]

1. FYI - In ancient Thessalian, 'Thessaly' was called Πετθαλία - Petthalía.

2. @haeul

a) Had Laconia been completely abandoned by the Greeks, no Greek toponyms would have remained. And yet, plenty remain. How does that fit into your picture? And even more importantly, how would these people have been Hellenised if there were no Greeks around?

The 'survival' of toponyms does not have much to do with the 'survival' of Hellenes in my opinion. In United States or Canada today, there are numerous native toponyms, names of states, cities, etc., which have nothing to do with the 'survival' (or not) of native Americans. Whichever way the cities or states were named, or received their names, it has little to nothing to do with the 'survival' of native tribes. In most cases we do know how some of these cities received their names.

There are also numerous GREEK toponyms throughout the United States. The first one that comes to mind is the city of Philadelphia - the city of brotherly love. The founding and naming of the city has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the ethnic Hellenes, even though the name is obviously Hellenic in etymology and origin.

In Greece, many 'toponyms' survived due to the efforts of the Roman government and administration. In some cases, Latin-speaking Romans founded cities with Hellenic names. In 28 BC, 3 years after his victory in the naval battle of Actium, Octavian founded a new city which he called Nicopolis (the City of Victory), located on the southernmost promontory of Epirus, and across the mouth of the harbour from the ancient town of Actium.

As you can see, the survival of Greek or Hellenic toponyms has little to do with what you are implying.

Also, we do know and have an idea how and in which way people might have learned Greek - the lingua franca since before Alexander. During the so-called "Byzantine" rule, knowledge of Greek was essential to 'enter' the elite. Being the lingua franca, the language of the administration and of the elite, Greek was not really a way to distinguish ethnicity. By dint of learning Greek, anybody could enter the administrative, ecclesiastical or military hierarchy. In closing, there was no policy of enforced hellenization of the popuplations of the empire.

b) This is a preposterous claim. You stubbornly hold onto this ridiculous notion that a significant portion of today's Greeks were somehow assembled from just about anyone but the Greeks, and yet, they ended up speaking Greek and professing themselves Greeks. It simply doesn't work like that.

We do have a pretty good idea and theory as to how this process might have taken place. There are a few modern Greek writers as well, who hold the same preposterous view as I do.

 

[AELarisa]

It is a distinctive name, a new location where people moved is called, in а spirit of serbian language, Seliste
https://www.google.rs/search?q=seli.....69i57j0l5.3805j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Selistas is a surname too.
The model -of greek origin- Arsinoi Selista.

Also, we do know and have an idea how and in which way people might have learned Greek - the lingua franca since before Alexander. During the so-called "Byzantine" rule, knowledge of Greek was essential to 'enter' the elite. Being the lingua franca, the language of the administration and of the elite, Greek was not really a way to distinguish ethnicity. By dint of learning Greek, anybody could enter the administrative, ecclesiastical or military hierarchy. In closing, there was no policy of enforced hellenization of the popuplations of the empire.

b) This is a preposterous claim. You stubbornly hold onto this ridiculous notion that a significant portion of today's Greeks were somehow assembled from just about anyone but the Greeks, and yet, they ended up speaking Greek and professing themselves Greeks. It simply doesn't work like that.

We do have a pretty good idea and theory as to how this process might have taken place. There are a few modern Greek writers as well, who hold the same preposterous view as I do.

Greek was not lingua franca before Alexander.
Even after him, many still spoke Arabic, Armenian or Hebrew.
And in Roman Empire, Latin was the lingua franca.

The non Greek people were basically Hellenised by the church. You had to be orthodox to be accepted in the Byzantine society and the only orthodox church for some centuries was Greek. This is how the Slavs of Greece started speaking Greek.

 

[AELarisa]

Granitsa (granica), in Evrytania, central Greece.

http://granitsa.gr/

Live webcam:
http://www.skylinewebcams.com/el/webcam/ellada/evrytania/agrafa/granitsa.html

 

[AELarisa]

A study on the -ovo -ova -itsa -ista toponyms of Greece.
It is in greek language and unfortunately i do not know if there is any translation.

https://issuu.com/akouts/docs/toponimia_ovo_ova_ista_itsa

In brief, the writer says that not all such toponyms have been given by Slavs, although the majority is related somehow to Slavs. Someone has also to look at the history of each place. Some place may had a slavic name because Slavs once lived there, but maybe later the place was abandoned and others came to live there (eg Vlachs, Albanians).
I would say the same for surnames that have similar endings. The majority of them show some slavic origin, however it can also be a surname that was given to a non Slav that lived in a place with a slavic toponym. So, it is important to see where you find that surname and what history there is behind it.

 

[haeul]

Carlin

a) Your opiniin is based on a false assumption that those examples are analogous. There can be no preservation of toponyms without at least some direct or indirect contact between the natives and the newscomers. You fail to see the fundamental difference between the Slavs on one hand, and the Romans and later Spanish, Portuguese, French and English colonialists on the other. You have illiterate pagans on one hand, and the literate pagan Romans and Christian Europeans on the other. The approach of the former to the native population differed markedly from the approach of the later. The Romans were fascinated by the Greek civilisation and quickly integrated the Greeks into their society. Thus, there existed a framework for the passage of knowledge independsnt of any intermixing. Similarly, the European colonialists had contacts with the native population, and their desire to Christianise them encouraged an active interest in them.

Nothing of the sort existed in the case of Slavs. Therefore, the existence and preservation of Greek toponyms (among which there are those which wouldn't have been recorded anywhere, the eliminating the possibility of them having been resurrected at a later time from written sources) is clear proof of Slav-Greek intermixing.

b) I have no doubt that there are a few of them. I'm sure you will also find a few who strongly believe in the existence of intelligent alien life.

The non Greek people were basically Hellenised by the church. You had to be orthodox to be accepted in the Byzantine society and the only orthodox church for some centuries was Greek. This is how the Slavs of Greece started speaking Greek.

While I have no doubt that the Church played a strong part in Hellenising non-Greeks, I fail to see how the Church would have been capable of imparting these peoples with a functional knowledge of the Greek language, on all levels, without at least some intermixing with native speakers - i.e. the Greeks.

Bear in mind, Carlin and I were taking specifically about the Peloponnese, which was Hellenised long before the formation of the modern Greek nation-state and the era of modern schooling, mass literacy and mass media. Had these people learnt their Greek though exposure to the liturgical language alone, their language would have lacked Greek words for anything that wasn't spoken of in the church (at least, initially, before their increasing exposure to Standard Greek in the 19th and 20th century).