Историја грчког народа

Требала би да постоји посебна тема о историји Грка, од античких времена Спарте и Атине, преко хеленизма Александра Македонског, и Ромејског царства до данас. Могуће да су Грци народ са најбогатијом историјом, тако да заслужују тему.

Ancient Athens was a radically multicultural and multiethnic society

Athens and Persia in the Fifth Century BC: A Study in Cultural Receptivity, By Margaret C. Miller
https://books.google.ca/books?id=oG...DAA#v=onepage&q=foreign slaves Athens&f=false

Some keypoints - pages 81 to 84:
- Pritchett concluded from his study of the Attic Stelai that at least 70 per cent of all slaves in Attica were foreign barbaroi who derived from the east and north-east rather than the west.
- There is good evidence of the use of barbaroi as nurses and paidagogoi in wealthy households, like the Thracian nurse on an Athenian loutrophoros and Alkibiades' Thracian paidagogos.
- Table 3.1 presents and lists the Ethnic distribution of foreign slaves in Attica (there are slaves from Thrace, Scythia, Kolchis, Kappadokia, Paphlagonia, Phrygia, Lydia, Karia, Syria, Persia, Arabia). From analysis of evidence, Ehrenberg concluded that Lydian and Phrygian slaves predominated, but Table 3.1 suggests rather that in addition to Phrygians, Thracians and Karians rather than Lydians were most numerous.
- By the second half of the fifth century, Athens and the Peiraieus had become a home to many metics of non-Greek origin, including a population of Egyptians.
- There existed a 'Little Phrygia' in the immediate vicinity of Athens.
- All the new cults known came from the same countries whose products and slaves were imported into Attica. Thrace, the major exporter of slaves, sent Bendis, known in Attic red-figure in the 440s and already incorporated into the Athenian cult structure by 429/8. Adonis came to Athens by the third quarter of the fifth century. Phrygia sent Sabazios (who was also Thracian).
- How can we explain the introduction and growth of foreign cults in the fifth century other than through the existence of a population of non-Greek metics?

Communities and Networks in the Ancient Greek World, edited by Claire Taylor, Kostas Vlassopoulos

https://books.google.ca/books?id=d6...DAC#v=onepage&q=foreign slaves Athens&f=false

Keypoints (pages 129, 133, 136-7, 139, 141):
- Athens of the classical period, that is the fifth and fourth centuries BCE, was a slave society. There were more slaves than adult male citizens, quite possibly several times as many. A large majority of these slaves seem to have been imported from non-Greek societies, from a wide variety of different places, with many coming from Thrace and the coast of Asia Minor.
- Rosivach argues that almost all slaves in Athens were non-Greeks.
- Non-Greek slaves made up the vast majority of slaves at Athens.
- Inscriptions reveal that Phoenicians in Athens sometimes used names representing Greek translations of Phoenician theophoric originals.
- Menander (fr. 877) depicts a Thracian, presumably a slave in Athens, boasting of his origins:

"All Thracians, and especially we Getae - for I myself proudly claim to be of that tribe - are not terribly self-controlled......"

- In Menander's Aspis (205-8) another slave makes the ironic comment that "I am a Phrygian. Many things that appear noble to you Athenians seem shocking to me - and converse is true".


This 3,500-Year-Old Greek Tomb Upended What We Thought We Knew About the Roots of Western Civilization

There is a very interesting article in Smithsonian magazine describing new revelations about the Mycenaeans based on excavations of a particularly rich Mycenaean grave. The grave goods from a very early Mycenaean burial are heavily influenced by Minoan culture, which has led to a new hypothesis that the Mycenaeans adopted Minoan culture right at the start and therefore their takeover of Crete was less like an invasion and more like a merging of two cultures, perhaps without distinct and formal divisions between them.

URL:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...exposes-roots-western-civilization-180961441/


Bronze Age Migrations in the Aegean, Archaeological and linguistic problems in Greek prehistory.

Proceedings of the First International Colloquium on Aegean Prehistory, Sheffield, organized by the British Association for Mycenaean Studies and the Departments of Greek and Ancient History of the University of Sheffield. Edited by R. A. Crossland and Ann Birchall

John Chadwick - page 255:

"The only certain historical conclusions to be drawn for Greece from linguistic evidence of this type are these: at least one language was spoken there before Greek; Greek is the product of the engrafting of an IE idiom on non-Greek stock..."
 
Poslednja izmena:
Srbi uspijevaju da ostanu glupi zbog agresivnosti s kojom se suocavaju sa novim saznanjima. Odmah ih povrate cim ih ugledaju.

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Рим је био селендра док је био 'једноетнички'. Без Грка и Етрураца би то и остао.

Vidi onda kojem narodu su pripadali Ciceron, Cezar, Ovidije, Tacit i drugi. Mislis dodje dodjos i pocne da istresa djela visoke umjetnicke vrijednosti samo zato sto se slucajno zadesio u Rimu? Ili se radi o prastarim rimskim odnosno latinskim porodicama?

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Kultura je pokusaj autohtonog stanovnistva da se ocuva usred najezde stranaca. Zato je kultura jako izrazena u doba pocetaka propadanja, odnosno na pocetku demokratije. Kasnije obicno ne uspije da se odbrani, ili samo u rijetkim slucajevima u egzilu.
 
Gde si ucio da mi je znati. Kod vise imperija impulse i ujedinjenje je doslo iz izmesanih krajeva. Najbolji primer je Rim koji je u vreme postojane bio mesavina Latina, Etruscana, Grka i.t.d. Nijedan latinski grad nije imao etruski uticaj kao Rim . Quin drzava koja je ujedenili Kinu je tek vremenom siniziran i vazio je kao varvarski. Makedonci (koji su pricali doriski dialekt grckog) su vazili za ostale Grke kao Varvare i seljaci. Pruska koja je ujedinila Nemacku ima dobar deo slovenskog i baltickog porekla. Najevece srpske dinastije su dosli iz teretorije za jakim vlaskim pecatom.
 
Gotovo svako drustvo (civilizacija) kroz istoriju je bilo manje ili vise etnicka mesavina i pod uticajem/kontaktom sa drugim kulturama.

Sto se tice Etruraca i Rimljana, sledeci citat Livija je veoma zanimljiv:

"Fabius had been brought up in Caere with some guest-friends, and because of that he had some grounding in Etruscan literature and a good knowledge of the Etruscan language. I have it on good authority that in those times it was common for Roman boys to receive instruction in Etruscan literature, as now they do in Greek"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=jP...page&q=Roman boys Etruscan literature&f=false


Slede par citata koji nam saopstavaju istorijske pozajmice antickih Grka iz drugih kultura - koji Helenocentristi objasnjavaju kao "creative transformation" dok su svi ostali narodi - u celini - "pozajmljivali" ili potpuno "Helenizovali" svoju kulturu.

Citati su iz "Hellenicity", od J. M. Hall (strane 107 i 201):

- "New Semitic load-words were borrowed along with artifacts and techniques - e.g. khiton (a linen tunic), kanon (measuring-rod), deltos (writing-table) and khrysos (gold) - and some have argued that Mesopotamian epics provide the influence for some passages in the Homeric epics as well as in the Homeric hymns and the poetry of Hesiod. Yet, while we are content to say that the cultural traditions of Sicily or South Italy were profoundly Hellenized, we do not claim that Greek culture was 'orientalized'. The term used instead is 'orientalizing' which emphasizes the active nature of Greek initiative..."

- "Walter Burkert is one of the few lone voices to protest against this unashamed Hellenocentrism, arguing that 'the "creative transformation" by the Greeks, however important, should not obscure the sheer fact of borrowing'."

- "... it has been suggested that the circular tholos in the Athenian agora was modelled on a Persian tent, that Perikles' Odeion on the southern slopes of the akropolis was meant to evoke images of Persia and that even the famous 'Panathenaic' frieze on the Parthenon echoes the ceremonial processions depicted on the great APADANA (audience hall) at Persepolis.* Orientalia that had formerly served as elite symbols were appropriated as Athenian, thus neutralizing their original social and ethnic significance. Robbed of their non-Athenian connotations, their symbolic utility to the elite was negated."
 
Мислим да је дошло до неспоразума. Тукидиде, утицај неримљана на Римљане је неоспоран, али свакако стоји да мешање са другим културама и уплим туђинског становништва може да доведе до уништења домаће културе и друштва.

Разуме се, крај једног може да буде почетак нечега другог, и историја је пуна таквих примера.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Kojim su pisali, cirilicom? Stari Grci su ispocetka miks Italika, Tracana i Semita, ali jednom kad su se stopili nastali su Heleni i samo su oni koji su imali svijest o helenstvu ucestvovali u kulturi. Nisu Rimljani kopirali Grke na lijepe oci, kao ni Etruscane.

Kod modernih Evropljana stanje je daleko ocajnije. Oni su jos vrlo rano odbacili vlastitu vjeru i obicaje i zbog toga su ostali zakrzljali na niskom stepenu razvoja. Recimo, zemljoradnja i zanatstvo nisu nikako nove pojave i uvijek su se smatrali poslovima Shudri i Vayshija, a Sloveni su Shudre dok su Germani Vayshije. Bilo bi lako zamisliti svijet u kojem postoje dodatne dvije gornje kaste ili cak vise od dvije i u tom svijetu Sloveni i Germani bi bili slabiji od onih visih.

Propadanje je uvijek prica za sebe. Ima citava nauka o tome. Nijemci su se s time temeljno pozabavili u 19. vijeku, ali cak ni danasnji Nijemci se ne bave vise time, posebno jer i sami propadaju. Kad se bolesnom ucini da je zdrav on odbija da pije lijekove.
 
Poslednja izmena:
What was the scale and impact of Roman colonization and immigration into Peloponnese & Greece?

Processes of Cultural Change and Integration in the Roman World

https://books.google.ca/books?id=VD...=Roman soldiers settle Patras Corinth&f=false

Page 154: This paper presents the results of such context-specific case study. It focuses on the city of Patras, which was colonized by Augustus in 14 B.C. Colonization entailed a massive influx of foreigners into the city, among them a large number of Roman army veterans.

Page 156: The colonization of Patras took place in the context of the reorganization of Greece that was started by Caesar and continued by Augustus.

Page 158: The settlement of veterans from Antony's legions after the battle of Actium must have posed a serious problem for Augustus, since, according to some estimations, there were about 35,000 veterans who had to be accommodated; Patras was just one destination for the veterans. ...... A third wave of immigration has been suggested by Keppie and Rizakis ........ The process of large-scale immigration entailed major disruptions to local society. In the case of Patras the act of colonization and the immigration of thousands of colonists led to a radical overthrow of the established order of things.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Da li su ti (ostaci) Helena bili romanizovani?

Map showing the "roman coloniae" in the second century, after Trajan. Note the concentration in Italy, France, Spain, Macedonia and Greece.



Quote from Konstantinos Koumas (1777-1836), himself probably of Vlach extraction:

"If the extraordinary hero of Macedonia succeeded in spreading the Greek language throughout the whole of the East, even as far as India, in a period of only ten years, it scarcely puts a strain on our credulity to imagine that the Romans might have accomplished the same thing! Indeed, it seems but perfectly natural that over eight centuries the Latin language should also have taken root in precisely those places where Latin colonies were planted - from England to the Euphrates and from the Elbe to the deserts of Africa. For almost six centuries before the fall of Rome, the whole of what is now European Turkey was filled with Roman armies, Roman prefects, Roman lords and magnates. The result of such continuous contact between the Romans and their subject peoples was that the whole peoples like the Macedonians, Thessalians, and Greeks not only learned the language of their masters but in many cases completely forgot their own mother tongue."

PS:
One specific example, say Crete, confirms that Latin was widely spoken among significant number of Cretan residents. The proof comes from From Capital to Colony: Five New Inscriptions from Roman Crete.

URL:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...roman-crete1/93948C0CC6BD944FC17D0B297EB6BE19

"This article present and contextualises five new inscriptions from central Crete: one from the hinterland of Gortyn, two from Knossos, and two more in all likelihood from Knossos. Internal geographical mobility from Gortyn to Knossos is illustrated by a Greek inscription from the hinterland of Gortyn. The Knossian inscriptions add new evidence for the local affairs of the Roman colony. A funerary or honorary inscription and two religious dedications – all three in Latin – give rise to new points concerning the well-attested link between Knossos and Campania. The colony's population included people, many of Campanian origin, who were already established in Crete, as well as families displaced from southern Italy in the great post-Actium settlement. The two religious dedications shed light on the city's religious practice, including a newly revealed cult of Castor, and further evidence for worship of the Egyptian gods. Oddest of all, a Greek inscription on a Doric epistyle names Trajan or Hadrian. These four inscriptions are then set into the context of linguistic choice at the colony. Epigraphic and numismatic evidence for the use of Latin and Greek in the life of the colony is analyzed on the basis of the available inscriptions, listed by category and date in an appendix."
 
Poslednja izmena:

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