Bespuća i stranputice zakona indogermanističke komparativne lingvistike

1. sr. PLAV : lat. FLAVUS : rus. POLOVOY

Ako imamo staroslovenski плавъ a u ruskom mnogoglasju полово́й uz zaključak prasl. *роlvъ, kako onda u latinskom imamo flav-us a ne **polv-us? Kako to da je u latinskom došlo do "metateze"?

Naravno, opet na volšeban način:

WORD:
поло́вый

GENERAL: полово́й "светло-желтый, блеклый", укр. полови́й "желтый, красно-желтый", др.-русск. половъ "светло-желтый, блеклый", ст.-слав. плавъ λευκός (Остром.), болг. плав (Младенов 425), сербохорв. пла̑в, пла́ва, пла́во "голубой, светловолосый", словен. plàv, pláva "голубой", чеш., слвц. plavý "блеклый, буланый, светло-желтый", польск., в.-луж., н.-луж. рɫоwу "блеклый, соломенный".

ORIGIN: Праслав. *роlvъ родственно лит. раl̃vаs, ж. palvà "буланый, светло-желтый", д.-в.-н. falo "блеклый, бледный, светловолосый", др.-сакс. falu (*falwaz), ср.-в.-н. val, -lwes, др.-инд. palitás (ж. páliknī) "старец, седой", palitám "седые волосы", греч. πολιός (*πολιός) "серый", πελιός (*πελιός) "бесцветный, бледный, темно-серый, черно-голубой", πελιτνός "серый", ион. πελιδνός, лат. раllеō "я бледен", pallidus "бледный", др.-ирл. líath "серый" (*pleitos); см. Траутман, ВSW 205; Буга, ИОРЯС 17, 1, 4; Вальде--Гофм. 2, 239 и сл.; Гофман, Gr. Wb. 260; Мейе, Ét. 362; Мейе--Вайан 22; Перссон 645; Шпехт 64; Лёвенталь, Farbenbez. 10 и сл.; Нидерман, IF 10, 229; Лиден 90; Ф. Хартман, Glotta 5, 334.

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ili pak

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Koliko je plavo blisko flavo (oboje znači svetložuto), a koliko se neprirodno nateže prema palido (bledo) procenite sami.

A drugo, koliko je bled blisko blond, čak ga izvode iz starofrancuskog BLAUD što znači "slab" - bled i slab ima semantičku vezu.



2. sr. BLED : fr. BLAUD : lat. PALID-US : ital. BLONDO (biondo) : rus. BLEDNYJ


prasl. i stsl. bledъ (rus. blédnyj, polj. blady)

Ovo je još jedan primer gde je sve u navodnoj "metatezi", jer bi original bio **beldo, ali se ne izvodi jer nema adekvatnog ruskog mnogoglasnog (**beled) ni italskog "ortoteznog" (**beld) oblika.

WORD: бле́дный
GENERAL: укр. блíдий, блр. бле́ды, ст.-слав. блѣдъ χλωρός, болг. бле́ден, сербохорв. бли̏jед, словен. blė̑d, чеш. bledý, польск. blady, в.-луж., н.-луж. blědy.
ORIGIN: Родственно др.-англ. blât "бледный", д.-в.-н. bleiʒa "бледность", возм., также алб. bl'erónj "зеленею"; см. Хольтхаузен, Aengl. Wb. 26; И. Шмидт, Vok. 2, 71; Бернекер 1, 60; Траутман, BSW 34. Лит. bleidnas "бледный", по-видимому, заимств. из слав. (Буга, РФВ 67, 232).
TRUBACHEV: [Ср. еще лит. blaĩvas "бледный, блеклый" < *blaidvas; см. Отрембский, LP, 1, 1949, стр. 122. -- Т.]

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Poslednja izmena:
Латинскоме почетноме f одговарају словенски почетни b, d, g.

Примери:
лат. frater - стс. братръ
лат. fumus - стс. дымъ
лат. fornus - стистс. гърнъ

То је више но довољно за одбацивање твоје, на сазвучју засноване, замисли, то јест пучке етимологије, како су flavus и плавъ когнати.

Више среће следећи пут.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Znam da je negde bila diskusija o etimologiji reči grad ali sada ne mogu više da tražim gde beše. Nekoliko zapažanja koja se ne sećam da je neko naveo.

Gradina na srpskom, pored ostalog znači i bašta, vrt. Ako ćemo da tražimo etimologiju u srpskom, ona je jasna: bašta, vrt, dvorište i sl. se ograđuju, to je ograđeni i zagrađeni prostor. Međutim očita je veza sa drugim jezicima i to kako romanskim tako i germanskim. Na italijanskom - giardini, na francuskom - jardin, na nemačkom - Garten, na engleskom - garden.
Tako je. Česi dan-danas baštu zovu zahrada (zagrada).

Neće ti IgarJot odgovoriti jer nisi dovoljno eksplicitan. Kod takvih tipova moraš da se svrštaš međ naše ili njihove...

garden (n.) late 13c. (late 12c. in surnames), from Old North French gardin "(kitchen) garden; orchard; palace grounds" (Old French jardin, 13c., Modern French jardin), from Vulgar Latin hortus gardinus "enclosed garden," via Frankish *gardo or some other Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *gardaz (cognates: Old Frisian garda, Old Saxon gardo, Old High German garto, German Garten "a garden," Old English geard, Gothic gards "enclosure;" see yard (n.1)). Italian giardino, Spanish jardin are from French.

As an adjective from c. 1600. Garden-party "company attending an entertainment on the lawn or garden of a private house" is by 1843. Garden-variety in figurative sense first recorded 1928. To lead someone up the garden path "entice, deceive" is attested by 1925. Garden-glassgarden-glass "round dark glass reflective globe (about a foot and a half across) placed on a pedestal, used as a garden ornament," is from 1842.

Nema kognata u slovenskom. :hahaha:

A moraš da ogradiš da ti zečevi, kokoške, svinje i druge živuljke sav znoj ne izjedu!

Bravo, Bastiani. :ok:



Прасловенско *kǔnędzǐ, старословенско кънѧѕь 'кнез', од германскога *kuninga-.

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Saskia Pronk Tiethoff - The Germanic Loanwords in Proto-Slavic, 2003, 134-135
Kanjiža
The town was mentioned in the Gesta Hungarorum chronicle under the name Kenesna and, according to the chronicle, it belonged to the duchy of Bulgarian duke Salan who ruled from Titel in the 9th century.[SUP][1][/SUP] In first written documents after Hungarian conquest of Central Europe, the town is mentioned as Cnesa or Kenesna. This name came from Slavic word knez 'prince'. In 1335, it was mentioned as Villa Canysa.[SUP][2]

Razbijanja anlaut konsonantskog klastera debelim jerovima u crkvenoslovenskom posledica je stranog uticaja standardizatora. Ukorenjena tradicija pismenosti, a primera odudaranja pisanog od izgovora u OCSu ima mnogo, nastavila je kroz školovanje da živi dovoljno dugo da indogermaniše šule zaključi kako su jerovi imanentni originalnom slovenskom izgovoru. A nisu. Imanentni su strancima. Otud kod Mažara Knez postaje Kanjiža, a kod Nemaca Kneg daje Koenig.
[/SUP]
 
Но, речи попут брат, дремать, слава, клещи, кроткий, брести, слово и плести довољне су да се докаже нетачност и несувислост његових тврдњи. Према његовој квазихипотези, у источнословенским језицима требало би да налазимо облике попут мађарскога barát од *bratъ, те би источнословенски облици били **борот, **деремать, **келещи, **берести, **солово, **пелести. Толико о тачности ових његових револуционарних замисли.

Ne shavtam etimologiju ove reči, bresti, a ne znam ni šta bi trebalo tačno da znači. Molim pojašnjenje.
 
"Pleofonija" na granici morfema:

"Е оборотное"
ali:

обратить i обращать

obratno, obratiti < ob+vratno, ob+vratiti

Prema tome, pleofonija nije pojava vezana za koren reči, već je pojava fonološkog razbijanja konsonantskih klastera na početku reči, isto kao što je to slučaj u mađarskom jeziku. Sva je prilika da su pojavu uslovila asimilacija veće mase neslovenkih elemenata, napose uralsko-jezičkih elemenata. Mađari su upravo preko Ukrajine došli u Panoniju - čisto ako se neko pita otkud tzv. mnogoglasje u Ukrajini.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Muggia originated as a prehistoric fortified village (castelliere), around 8th-7th century BC. The territory was conquered in 178–177 BC by the Romans, who created here a settlement (Castrum Muglae). After the fall of the Western Roman Empire, Muggia was under Ostrogoth, Lombard, Byzantine, Avar and Frank dominations, until, in 931, king Hugh of Italy donated it to the Patriarch of Aquileia.

Before the year 1000 a new settlement was built on the seashore, initially named the Village of the Laurel and then Muglae->Muglia->Mulia->Muia->Muggia (muglia seems to be an ancient place-name meaning "coastal swamp"). After the 13th century the new village, now grown to the status of city, pronounced itself a municipality and defined its territory as bordering with those of Trieste and Koper (Italian Capodistria), but stayed still politically bound to the Patriarchy of Aquileia. From this period are the cathedral and the city hall, the latter having been rebuilt in the last century. Having passed eventually in 1420 under the Republic of Venice, Muggia shared thereafter the fates of the Serenissima.

Ajde da čujemo po čemu je Muglae dobilo ime? :whistling:

Današnja Muggia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggia
 
Nema kognata u slovenskom. :hahaha:
Прерано си се развеселио:

yard (n.1) Look up yard at Dictionary.com
"patch of ground around a house," Old English geard "fenced enclosure, garden, court; residence, house," from Proto-Germanic *gardaz (cognates: Old Norse garðr "enclosure, garden, yard;" Old Frisian garda, Dutch gaard, Old High German garto, German Garten "garden;" Gothic gards "house," garda "stall"), from PIE *ghor-to-, suffixed form of root *gher- (1) "to grasp, enclose," with derivatives meaning "enclosure" (cognates: Old English gyrdan "to gird," Sanskrit ghra- "house," Albanian garth "hedge," Latin hortus "garden," Phrygian -gordum "town," Greek khortos "pasture," Old Irish gort "field," Breton garz "enclosure, garden," and second element in Latin cohors "enclosure, yard, company of soldiers, multitude").

Lithuanian gardas "pen, enclosure," Old Church Slavonic gradu "town, city," and Russian gorod, -grad "town, city" belong to this group, but linguists dispute whether they are independent developments or borrowings from Germanic.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=yard&allowed_in_frame=0
 
Прерано си се развеселио:

yard (n.1) Look up yard at Dictionary.com
"patch of ground around a house," Old English geard "fenced enclosure, garden, court; residence, house," from Proto-Germanic *gardaz (cognates: Old Norse garðr "enclosure, garden, yard;" Old Frisian garda, Dutch gaard, Old High German garto, German Garten "garden;" Gothic gards "house," garda "stall"), from PIE *ghor-to-, suffixed form of root *gher- (1) "to grasp, enclose," with derivatives meaning "enclosure" (cognates: Old English gyrdan "to gird," Sanskrit ghra- "house," Albanian garth "hedge," Latin hortus "garden," Phrygian -gordum "town," Greek khortos "pasture," Old Irish gort "field," Breton garz "enclosure, garden," and second element in Latin cohors "enclosure, yard, company of soldiers, multitude").

Lithuanian gardas "pen, enclosure," Old Church Slavonic gradu "town, city," and Russian gorod, -grad "town, city" belong to this group, but linguists dispute whether they are independent developments or borrowings from Germanic.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=yard&allowed_in_frame=0

Vidi, "stavljeno je na diskusiju" jer kad bi se povukla kognatska paralela nedvosmisleno bi ukazivalo na slovensko poreklo reči. Mogo ima ovakvih problematičnih korenova gde sva zdrava pamet ukazuje na jedno, ali interes očuvanja uspostavljenog sistema kida veze sa zdravom pameću. Imali smo takve reči na diskusiji kao što je mlin, plug, breg i možda još neke, sad mi ne padaju na pamet.
 
Tebe sam pitao ovo:

http://forum.krstarica.com/showthre...ka-plemena?p=31629658&viewfull=1#post31629658


"Bernštejn (1966) ističe, primjerice, da albanske riječi dalte »dlijeto« i gardine »gradina« sigurno nisu posuđene iz slavenskoga prije 11. st., dakle, znatno nakon metateze likvida, koja se obično smješta na prijelaz između 8. u 9. st. Pa ipak, kada bismo sudili na osnovi tih posuđenica, morali bismo tvrditi da one odražavaju slavenski izgovor prije metateze likvida."

Dakle, s jedne strane imamo kao dan jasan proces: kod Albanaca gardine i Mađara Gardoš, ali se zato, zbog prihvatanja i bezglavog insistiranja na dogmi da Slovena nije bilo u Maloj Evropi pre 6-7. veka, zbog davanja prednosti Latinima i Germanima, njih uteruje u potpuno suprotan proces, a Slovene u potpuno neprirodno fonološko stanje. Pa se tako tvrdi da je jedna trećina slovenskih reči počinjala glasom a-, npr. alkat (lakat), ardlo (ralo), arbiti (rabiti), arzina (razina), alkomost (lakomost), Arb (Rab), Albona (Labin), Ardagost (Radogost) itd.

Ali si prećutao jer nisi našao odakle ćeš da prepišeš-usvojiš.

Treba dodati rame, koje bi moralo biti rekonstruisano u *arme. Međutim:

prasl. *ramę ramo (stsl. ramo, rus. rámo, polj. ramię), stprus. irmo: ruka ← ie. *h[SUB]2[/SUB]ermo- (lat. armus, got. arms)
 
Прасловенски је био сатемски језк, а глас *g у псл. *gordъ, bergъ је кентумски одраз, зато се сматра да су вероватно посуђене из германскога језика.

Pa dobro. :)

Našao sam objašnjenje za oborotnoe:

WORD: обрати́ть
GENERAL: обращу́, итер. обраща́ть, -а́ю. Заимств. из цслав., ст.-слав. обратити "повернуть", обраштати "поворачивать" вместо исконнорусск. обороти́ть. Из *ob-vort-, см. вороти́ть, верте́ть.

:lol:
 
Misterija broj 1

Pitao bih:

Mađari su usvojili veliki broj slovenskih reči što nije sporno. Toliko mnogo reči, da su se neke takve reči pomađarene vratile nazad u srpski jezik (astal od srpskog sto(l), šargarepa od srpskog žarka repa). To nije važno za ovu temu.

Međutim, nije mi jasno otkud kod Mađara slovenizmi ovog oblika: serda (sreda), barazda (brazda), Balaton (blatno jezero), szilva (od srpskog sliva - danas šljiva), könyv (knjiga) i sl. kad znamo da su Ugri došli krajem 9. veka, a tzv. "metateza likvida kod Slovena" navodno se desila u 8-om veku (SMLOV). Uočavamo i to da u mađarskom jeziku imamo metatezu likvida koju je zvanična indogermanistika propustila da predloži za rekonstrukt: mađ. szilva : prasl. *sliva, tačnije, nije mogla da predloži jer je metateza nastala preko granice morfema (s+liti).Ali do nje je ipak došlo. Ne kod Slovena.

Takođe, odgovor na pitanje: kada dolazi do mnogoglasja kod istočnih Slovena? nismo još čuli, pa bih i to pitao. Uočavamo sledeća "mnogoglasja" kod mađarskih pozajmljenica iz slovenskog mađ. barazda : prasl. *borzda (rus. borozdá), mađ. Balaton : prasl. *bolto (rus. bolóto), pa se pitamo radi li se o autohtono slovenskoj promeni ili je u Istočnih Slovena neslovenski etnički supstrat uzrokovao razvoj ove promene?


prasl. i stsl. kъniga (rus. kníga, češ. kniha) ← turk. *kūinig ← kin. k'üen: svezak
prasl. *bolto (rus. bolóto: močvara, polj. błoto) ≃ lit. baltas: bijel
prasl. *sliva (rus. slíva, češ. slíva)
prasl. *borzda (rus. borozdá, polj. brózda) ? ≃ boriti se, v.
prasl. *serda (rus. seredína, polj. środa), v. srce

Dakle, ovo se može objasniti na više, meni neuverljivih, načina, ali mene interesuje koje je zvanično objašnjenje, tj. da li je to do sada objašnjeno u literaturi i kako.

PS. Ovo sam pitanje postavio još pre tri meseca, i od tada još dvaput, bez da je bilo odgovora, pa pretpostavljam da je neko od dežurnih stručnjaka imao vremena da se pozabavi tim pitanjem.

Kanjiža
The town was mentioned in the Gesta Hungarorum chronicle under the name Kenesna and, according to the chronicle, it belonged to the duchy of Bulgarian duke Salan who ruled from Titel in the 9th century.[SUP][1][/SUP] In first written documents after Hungarian conquest of Central Europe, the town is mentioned as Cnesa or Kenesna. This name came from Slavic word knez 'prince'. In 1335, it was mentioned as Villa Canysa.[2]

Razbijanja anlaut konsonantskog klastera debelim jerovima u crkvenoslovenskom posledica je stranog uticaja standardizatora. Ukorenjena tradicija pismenosti, a primera odudaranja pisanog od izgovora u OCSu ima mnogo, nastavila je kroz školovanje da živi dovoljno dugo da indogermaniše šule zaključi kako su jerovi imanentni originalnom slovenskom izgovoru. A nisu. Imanentni su strancima. Otud kod Mažara Knez postaje Kanjiža, a kod Nemaca Kneg daje Koenig.
 
Pozdrav, može li neko da utvrdi etimologiju naše riječi "stoka" i engleski riječi "stock" što bi značilo u prevodu soj ili porijeklo. Primjer: "common stock" - "zajedničko porijeklo" ali i "obični soj" :lol: zavisno od konteksta :lol: ;)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stock#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stoka - ovdje nema ništa :(

Opet upecani Germani,

engleski:
stock (n.2) "supply for future use" (early 15c.), "sum of money" (mid-15c.), Middle English developments of stock (n.1), but the ultimate sense connection is uncertain. Perhaps the notion is of the "trunk" from which gains are an outgrowth, or from stock (n.1) in obsolete sense of "money-box" (c. 1400). Meaning "subscribed capital of a corporation" is from 1610s.

In stock "in the possession of a trader" is from 1610s. Meaning "broth made by boiling meat or vegetables" is from 1764. Theatrical use, in reference to a company regularly acting together at a given theater, is attested from 1761. Figurative phrase take stock in "regard as important" is from 1870. As the collective term for the movable property of a farm, it is recorded from 1510s; hence livestock.

stock (v.)

"to supply (a store) with stock," 1620s, from stock (n.2). Meaning "to lay up in store" is from c. 1700. Earliest sense is "to imprison in stocks" (early 14c.). Related: Stocked; stocking.

stock (n.1)
Old English stocc "stump, post, stake, tree trunk, log," also "pillory" (usually plural, stocks), from Proto-Germanic *stukkaz "tree trunk" (cognates: Old Norse stokkr "block of wood, trunk of a tree," Old Saxon, Old Frisian stok, Middle Dutch stoc "tree trunk, stump," Dutch stok "stick, cane," Old High German stoc "tree trunk, stick," German Stock "stick, cane;" also Dutch stuk, German Stück "piece"), from PIE *(s)teu- (1) "to push, stick, knock, beat" (see steep (adj.)).

Meaning "ancestry, family" (late 14c.) is a figurative use of the "tree trunk" sense (as in family tree). This is also the root of the meaning "heavy part of a tool," and "part of a rifle held against the shoulder" (1540s). Meaning "person as dull and senseless as a block or log" is from c. 1300; hence "a dull recipient of action or notice" (1540s).

Meaning "framework on which a boat was constructed" (early 15c.) led to figurative phrase on stocks "planned and commenced" (1660s). Taking stock "making an inventory" is attested from 1736. Stock, lock, and barrel "the whole of a thing" is recorded from 1817. Stock-still (late 15c.) is literally "as still as a tree trunk."


- nemački
Stock Sm std. (8. Jh.), mhd. stoc, ahd. stoc, as. stokk Stammwort. Aus g. * stukka- m. "Stock, Balken, Baumstumpf u.a.", auch in anord. stokkr, ae. stocc, afr. stokk. Zusammen mit stauchen und stochern zu einer Grundlage, die ohne anlautendes s- bezeugt ist in ai. tujáti "drängt, stößt", aus einer Wurzel (ig.) * steu- "stoßen", die auch in stoßen vorliegt. Vermutlich ist die Ausgangsbedeutung "das Abgeschlagene". Zu Stock "Etage" s. Stockwerk. Ebenso nndl. stok, ne. stock, nschw. stock; Stauche, Stöckelschuh, stocken, Stück.







jer stoka=blago. Uporedi sa glagolom steći (etim. s+ teći).
 
Pozdrav, može li neko da utvrdi etimologiju naše riječi "stoka" i engleski riječi "stock" što bi značilo u prevodu soj ili porijeklo. Primjer: "common stock" - "zajedničko porijeklo" ali i "obični soj" :lol: zavisno od konteksta :lol: ;)

Ja vidim jedino vezu ako se prihvati da "stoka" i "Stock" znači "ono što je za uzgoj i rast", jer u engleskom koriste izraz "Stock" or "stocker" cattle za junce koji se kupe kao junci (za manje pare) pa se gaje (i goje) do konačnog oblika i težine.

U neku ruku to znači i poreklo, jer krava i bivo nastaju od junca:hahaha:

Kod nas koriste izraz "od istog su štoka pravljeni", što se može shvatiti kao rođačka veza, ista krvna loza, ali to se odnosi na "štok" - drveni okvir za vrata (takoreći "futer")) , u smislu "isti im je koren", "od istog su drveta"..
 
Poslednja izmena:
Није **s но sъ, ( у савременој штокавици с/са), дакле *sъtoka. Због једнога полугласа паде твоје пучко наклапање у воду.

Заиста је запањујуће колико појма немаш.

Poluglasi su teoretska konstrukcija, samo si, za sada, nedovoljno sposoban to da shvatiš. Oni su arbitrarno konvencionalni fonemi i arbitrarno konvencionalni grafemi. Šta su, da li su, ako su - niko zaista nije dokazao. Strpljenja.
 
Ja vidim jedino vezu ako se prihvati da "stoka" i "Stock" znači "ono što je za uzgoj i rast", jer u engleskom koriste izraz "Stock" or "stocker" cattle za junce koji se kupe kao junci (za manje pare) pa se gaje (i goje) do konačnog oblika i težine.

U neku ruku to znači i poreklo, jer krava i bivo nastaju od junca:hahaha:

Bre, srpska reč nastala od glagola steći, sticati. Semantički uporedi s rečju blago.

BHP_Livestock_jpg.jpg


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]blȃgo[SUP]2[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]blȃgo[SUP]2[/SUP] sr[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EDF4FA"]
definicija.jpg
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EDF4FA"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 1%"]1. [/TD]
[TD]velika vrijednost u novcu, zlatu i dragocjenostima[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. [/TD]
[TD]pren. duhovno, kulturno i drugo dobro [on je blago od čovjeka on je izvrstan čovjek, pun dobrih kvaliteta][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. [/TD]
[TD]stoka, marva[/TD]
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[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EFF9EE"]
sintagma.jpg
[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EFF9EE"]∆ folklorno blago ukupnost folklorne ostavštine nekog naroda ili kulture;
jezično blago ukupnost vokabulara nekog jezika;
krupno blago goveda (3);
sitno blago ovce i koze[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

stock (n.2) "supply for future use" (early 15c.), "sum of money" (mid-15c.), Middle English developments of stock (n.1), but the ultimate sense connection is uncertain. :aha:Perhaps the notion is of the "trunk" from which gains are an outgrowth, or from stock (n.1) in obsolete sense of "money-box" (c. 1400). Meaning "subscribed capital of a corporation" is from 1610s.

In stock "in the possession of a trader" is from 1610s. Meaning "broth made by boiling meat or vegetables" is from 1764. Theatrical use, in reference to a company regularly acting together at a given theater, is attested from 1761. Figurative phrase take stock in "regard as important" is from 1870. As the collective term for the movable property of a farm, it is recorded from 1510s; hence livestock.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Kod nas koriste izraz "od istog su štoka pravljeni", što se može shvatiti kao rođačka veza, ista krvna loza, ali to se odnosi na "štok" - drveni okvir za vrata (takoreći "futer")) , u smislu "isti im je koren", "od istog su drveta"..

Štofa? Koristimo kao sinonim za materijal.

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[TD]štȍf[/TD]
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[TD]štȍf m 〈N mn štòfovi〉[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EDF4FA"]
definicija.jpg
[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EDF4FA"]reg. [TABLE="width: 100%"]
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[TD="width: 1%"]1. [/TD]
[TD]deblja, ob. vunena tkanina[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. [/TD]
[TD]žarg. a. građa, podaci, materijal za stvaranje znanstvenih ili umjetničkih djela b. ono što služi kao tema, predmet za razgovor, diskusiju, izlaganje [dati nekom štofa pružiti povod (za što), dati (mu) materijala (ob. za ogovaranje)][/TD]
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[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EFF9EE"]
sintagma.jpg
[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #EFF9EE"][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8F0E3"]
frazeologija.jpg
[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #F8F0E3"][/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #F7EFFC"]
onomastika.jpg
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[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F7EFFC"][/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #F0F3FC"]
etimologija.jpg
[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0F3FC"]✧ njem. Stoff[/TD]
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[/TABLE]
 
Nije se džabe prije govorilo ko posjeduje zemlju i/ili stoku taj je bogat. Uzgoj stoke je značilo i bogastvo u budućnosti, zato se englezi napravili razliku "livestock - živa stoka" i "capital stock - dionice" s kojima stockholderi trguju na stockmarketu tj. na stockexchange iliti na našem berzi radi investiranja u budućnost.

U drevnom Rimu dionice su se nazivale partes, što bi značilo kao "porcije" za "prodaju". (engleski part(s) - dio,djelovi)

During the Roman Republic, the state contracted (leased) out many of its services to private companies. These government contractors were called publicani, or societas publicanorum as individual company.[7] These companies were similar to modern corporations, or joint-stock companies more specifically, in a couple of aspects. They issued shares called partes (for large cooperatives) and particulae which were small shares that acted like today's over-the-counter shares.[8] Polybius mentions that “almost every citizen” participated in the government leases.[9] There is also an evidence that the price of stocks fluctuated. The great Roman orator Cicero speaks of partes illo tempore carissimae, which means “share that had a very high price at that time."[10] This implies a fluctuation of price and stock market behavior in Rome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock

partes --> nominative plural of pars

From the same root as portiō, parcus, and parcō. It is from the Proto-Indo-European root *per- ‎(“sell”), :!: which also gave the Ancient Greek πόρνη ‎(pórnē, “prostitute”), and πέρνημι ‎(pérnēmi, “sell”).

Others refer to Proto-Indo-European *per-, whence Latin porta, portus, portiō, parō, pariō, pareō, pār, perīculum, experior, Ancient Greek πέρα ‎(péra), πείρω ‎(peírō), πέρνημι ‎(pérnēmi). While keeping the separate root Proto-Indo-European *spar-, whence Latin parcus, parcō, Ancient Greek σπαρνός ‎(sparnós), English spare.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pars#Latin

A da još malo zapetljam, gledajte etimologiju engleske riječi part

From Middle English part, from Old English part ‎(“part”) and Old French part ‎(“part”); both from Latin partem, accusative of pars ‎(“piece, portion, share, side, party, faction, role, character, lot, fate, task, lesson, part, member”), from Proto-Indo-European *par-, *per- ‎(“to cut, bore”) :!: . Akin to portio ‎(“a portion, part”), parare ‎(“to make ready, prepare”). Displaced Middle English del, dele ‎(“part”) (from Old English dǣl ‎(“part, distribution”)), Middle English dale ‎(“part, portion”) (from Old English dāl ‎(“portion”)), Middle English sliver ‎(“part, portion”) (from Middle English sliven ‎(“to cut, cleave”), from Old English (tō)slīfan ‎(“to split”))

Da li je moguće da prodaja i porcija imaju isti PIE korijen?

A ako želite još zapetljanije, pogledajte etimologiju engleske riječi za cattle .
From Middle English catel, from Anglo-Norman catel ‎(“personal property”), from Old Northern French (compare French cheptel, Old French chetel, chatel, also English chattel) from Medieval Latin capitāle, from Latin capitālis ‎(“of the head”), from caput ‎(“head”) + -alis ‎(“-al”).

E ako ste mislili da je to sve, i u cattle se krije termin za soj, porijeklo kao i u stock
From Middle English catel, from Anglo-Norman catel ‎(“personal property”), from Old Northern French (compare French cheptel, Old French chetel, chatel, also English chattel) from Medieval Latin capitāle, from Latin capitālis ‎(“of the head”), from caput ‎(“head”) + -alis ‎(“-al”).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cattle

From Middle English chatel, from Old French chatel, from Medieval Latin capitāle (English capital), from Latin capitālis ‎(“of the head”), from caput ‎(“head”) + -alis ‎(“-al”). Compare cattle ‎(“cows”), which is from an Anglo-Norman variant. Compare also capital and kith and kine ‎(“all one’s possessions”), which also use “cow” to mean “property”.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chattel#English

From Middle English capital from Latin capitālis ‎(“of the head”), in sense “head of cattle”, from caput ‎(“head”) (English cap). Use in trade and finance originated in Medieval economies when a common but expensive transaction involved trading heads of cattle.

Compare chattel and kith and kine ‎(“all one’s possessions”), which also use “cow” to mean “property”.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capital#English

Literally, friends (“kith”) and cattle (“kine”). Compare Latinate capital and chattel, which also use “cow” to mean “property”,
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kith_and_kine#English

https://translate.google.com/#auto/sr/kin
рођаци
kin
родбина
relatives, kin, kindred, kinfolk, kinsfolk, affinity
својта
kin

From Middle English kyn, kuin, kiin, kien, variant (double plural) of Middle English ky, kye ‎(“cows”), equivalent to ky, kye +‎ -en. Alternative etymology derives Middle English kyn from Old English cȳna ‎(“cows', of cows”), genitive plural of cū ‎(“cow”). More at cow.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kine
From Middle English kin, kyn, ken, kun
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kin :per:

Nije sve, nije sve! Stani malo :lol:
Engleska riječ fee koja se u imenici prevodi kao: honorar, plata, trošak, doprinos, ulog, feudalno dobro, napojnica, provizija isto ima veze sa značenjem naše stoke i marve :lol:
https://translate.google.com/#en/sr/fee

From Middle English fee, fe, feh, feoh, from Old English feoh ‎(“cattle, property, wealth, money, payment, tribute, fee”) and Old French fieu, fief (< Medieval Latin fevum, a variant of feudum, < Old Frankish *fehu ‎(“cattle, livestock”); > English fief), both from Proto-Germanic :!: *fehu ‎(“cattle, sheep, livestock, owndom”), from Proto-Indo-European *peku-, *peḱu- ‎(“sheep”). Cognate with Old High German fihu ‎(“cattle, neat”), Scots fe, fie ‎(“cattle, sheep, livestock, deer, goods, property, wealth, money, wages”), West Frisian fee ‎(“livestock”), Dutch vee ‎(“cattle, livestock”), Low German Veeh ‎(“cattle, livestock, property”), Veh, German Vieh ‎(“cattle, livestock”), Danish fæ ‎(“cattle, beast, dolt”), Swedish fä ‎(“beast, cattle, dolt”), Norwegian fe ‎(“cattle”), Icelandic fé ‎(“livestock, assets, money”), Latin pecū ‎(“cattle”).
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fee

:lol:
 

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