Slovenski toponimi čine većinu toponima Albanije - ko bi se tome nadao? (Google maps)

Bugarski toponimi po Albaniji?

500px-Pontic_steppe_region_around_650_AD.png


I dont think so...
 
Mrkalj:
Bugarski toponimi po Albaniji?

500px-Pontic_steppe_region_around_650_AD.png


I dont think so...
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Hoces reci da su ovo (po juznoj Albaniji) srpski toponimi, a ne istocno-juznoslovenski?

Mapa1.jpg


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Cirkovic o donjoj polovici Albanije:

"Najduzi trag je ostavila prva bugarska drzava ,koja je svakako doprinela da se ovde rasiri ime Bugara, koji su Slovenima zagospodarili i vremenom se u njima rastvorili".

Cirkovic_Bugari.jpg


Sta uopce trazis na ovoj Istoriji, tako iskompleksiran?
 
Gorazde je jako los primjer. Bugari su se pobili u Bosni s Hrvatima. Otpada, na zalost, posto se zna na primjeru Dracke teme da je po tim rubnim podrucjima tokom osvajanja i klanja bilo zamjene stanovnistva.

Primjer iz 9 vijeka:

"U susedstvu Dracke teme Bugari su dobili zemljiste u zamenu za predele izmedju Meste i Strume."

Cirkovic3.jpg
 
Pošto su se Bugari borili protiv Hrvata to znači da Srbi kao narod uopšte ne postoje, brother, iako znamo da su ove nacije (Bugari i Hrvati) nastale glavninom od Srba i da govore (kakvim-takvim) srpskim jezikom. Tako, ako je neko srpsko mesto imenovano po staroslovenskom književnom standardu (npr. Pešter, Goraždevac) automatski je to toponim bugarskog jezika. ...ali samo za članove bukavalističkog kluba Fotokopirsport. Kao da srbi nisu imali Crkvu i svoju redakciju staroslovenskog jezika koja jeste uticala na narodni jezik.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Ne kenjaj kvake, mamlaze dosadni (ako neko negira narode ovdje na najbolesniji moguci nacin, to si ti) nego obavijesti moderatora da promijeni naziv ove kretenske teme. Izolovani primjeri po Bosni ne pobijaju cinjenicu da se na jugu Albanije nalaze istocno-juznoslovenski toponimi, a ne srpski, sto uporno trubis ovdje. To najbolje izvori pokazuju. Pogledaj dokle se prostiralo bugarstvo carstvo prije nego sto opet pocnes daviti.

Rojalisto, ako ti je stalo do reputacije ovog jadnog Foruma, zamolio bih te da uzmes u obzir promjenu naslova teme. Bez zezancije.
 
Carlin15:
The municipal unit consists of the villages: Bulgarec, Lumalas, Biranj, Melçan, Porodinë, Dishnicë, Shamoll, Belorta, Kuç i Zi, Barç, Çiflig, Malavec and Neviçisht.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qendër_Bulgarec

The municipal unit consists of the villages Novoselë, Mesiçkë, Kagjinas, Zharkan, Piskal, Vitisht, Shijan, Kaduç, Ndërrmarr and Mbreshtan.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novoselë,_Kolonjë
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Češko_Selo

Češko Selo (Serbian Cyrillic: Чешко Село, Czech: Česká ves) is a village located in the Bela Crkva municipality, in the South Banat District of Serbia. It is situated in the autonomous province of Vojvodina. The village has a Czech ethnic majority (84.78%) and a population of 46 people (2002 census). Its name means "the Czech village", and it is the only settlement with Czech majority in Vojvodina and Serbia.
 
Mrkalj:
Jesi čuo za staroslovenski jezik? Ako su ti toponimi po Albaniji bugarski, čiji su toponimi po Makedoniji i tolačkoj Srbiji? :dash:
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Mrkalj, the term "staroslovenski jezik" is a bit of a misnomer and refers to the language of the translations done by Cyrillus and Methodius. No linguist in his right mind would translate "staroslovenski jezik" literally, as "the old language of all Slavs". If some toponyms are said to display features of the "staroslovenski jezik", it generally means these features are not characteristic of the Serbian language, or the Russian, etc.
 
Васил:
Mrkalj, the term "staroslovenski jezik" is a bit of a misnomer and refers to the language of the translations done by Cyrillus and Methodius. No linguist in his right mind would translate "staroslovenski jezik" literally, as "the old language of all Slavs". If some toponyms are said to display features of the "staroslovenski jezik", it generally means these features are not characteristic of the Serbian language, or the Russian, etc.
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Васил, друже, када су Бугари примили хришћанство? :think:
 
Mrkalj:
Васил, друже, када су Бугари примили хришћанство? :think:
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this a very big topic. If you mean the Proto-Bulgarians, then different their groups had accepted Christianity from the surrounding various peoples. The sources btw speak mainly about the Christianisation of leaders. Less is known of the ordinary folk.
 
Slovenski toponimi ne cine vecinu toponima Albanije. Srpskih toponima ima jako malo po srednjoj i sjevernoj (gdje su se nalazili dijelom Illyrii proprie dicti) Albaniji. Najveci broj otpada na istocno-juznoslovenske (bugarske i makedonske). Neka se Makedonci i Bugari dogovore sta kome pripada, pogotovo po donjoj polovici Albanije i njenim istocnim rubnim predjelima. To nije srpska nomenklatura.

Rojalisto, molim te kao rodjenog brata, promijeni ovaj blentav naslov teme. Vidis da njemu (Mrkalju) nista ne pomaze vec dvije stranice ove teme: izvori, knjige, citati, detaljne mape, logika, razum.
 
Mrkalj:
Mogu da se složim sa konstatacijom. A kada su, i koji, Južni Sloveni sa Balkana postali Bugari? Mislim etnogenezu koja je stvorila narod Bugara, koji je govorio bugarski jezik ili se smatrao Bugarima?
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When discussing former Slavic toponyms in Greece, Albania or, say, Romania, the linguists may use labels such as "belonging to the Bulgarian/Serbo-Croatian group", or "belonging to the Daco-Moesian, etc. Slavic groups", but it doesn't mean that 7th c. AD people, say, in southern Peloponnesos identified as Bulgarians/Serbs/etc.

The Slavs existed separately from the Proto-Bulgarians in Bulgaria the VII, VIIIth c. AD. There were some kind of treaties (pacts) between them. After that, however, they lost their identity/identities and merged with the Proto-Bulgarians. This can be seen in the Byzantine sources btw. Initially they mention separate Slav and Bulgar armies. For example, the Bulgar leader Telec had Slav allies who fought together with him against the Byzantines at Anchialo in 763 AD. But during the long battle the Slavs deserted Telec and he lost. Later, by the time of Boris I for example the Byzantine sources don't distinguish between Slavs and Bulgars and speak of Bulgarian armies only.
 
Васил:
When discussing former Slavic toponyms in Greece, Albania or, say, Romania, the linguists may use labels such as "belonging to the Bulgarian/Serbo-Croatian group", or "belonging to the Daco-Moesian, etc. Slavic groups", but it doesn't mean that 7th c. AD people, say, in southern Peloponnesos identified as Bulgarians/Serbs/etc.

The Slavs existed separately from the Proto-Bulgarians in Bulgaria the VII, VIIIth c. AD. There were some kind of treaties (pacts) between them. After that, however, they lost their identity/identities and merged with the Proto-Bulgarians. This can be seen in the Byzantine sources btw. Initially they mention separate Slav and Bulgar armies. For example, the Bulgar leader Telec had Slav allies who fought together with him against the Byzantines at Anchialo in 763 AD. But during the long battle the Slavs deserted Telec and he lost. Later, by the time of Boris I for example the Byzantine sources don't distinguish between Slavs and Bulgars and speak of Bulgarian armies only.
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Upravo tako. Koliko je, onda, tačno pretpostaviti da su toponimi po Albaniji bugarski, ako vidimo da se među njima nalaze nazivi mesta koji pripadaju slovenskoj (paganskoj) mitologij? Dakle, ne tatarskoj ili protobugarskoj mitologiji nego slovenskoj mitologiji, onih Slovena koji još nisu ni pobugareni ni pokršteni ni jezički odvojeni u istočnojužnoslovenski dijalekt kontinuum.

 
Васил:
When discussing former Slavic toponyms in Greece, Albania or, say, Romania, the linguists may use labels such as "belonging to the Bulgarian/Serbo-Croatian group", or "belonging to the Daco-Moesian, etc. Slavic groups", but it doesn't mean that 7th c. AD people, say, in southern Peloponnesos identified as Bulgarians/Serbs/etc.

The Slavs existed separately from the Proto-Bulgarians in Bulgaria the VII, VIIIth c. AD. There were some kind of treaties (pacts) between them. After that, however, they lost their identity/identities and merged with the Proto-Bulgarians. This can be seen in the Byzantine sources btw. Initially they mention separate Slav and Bulgar armies. For example, the Bulgar leader Telec had Slav allies who fought together with him against the Byzantines at Anchialo in 763 AD. But during the long battle the Slavs deserted Telec and he lost. Later, by the time of Boris I for example the Byzantine sources don't distinguish between Slavs and Bulgars and speak of Bulgarian armies only.
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Hi Vasil,

You bring up a very interesting point, and that is how ordinary people (might have) identified themselves throughout the medieval period up to and including the 19th century. That is of course not related to the issue of Albanian toponyms, which - some of them - are clearly of South-Southeastern Slavic provenance (i.e. modern Bulgarian, Macedonian affinity).

But, let me ask you a question. You state that the various tribes that settled in the southern Morea most likely did not identify themselves as either Bulgars and Serbs. Well and good.

What actual evidence or testimonies do we have of how ordinary Slavonic-speaking people and peasants, in say modern Bulgaria and Albania, identified themselves in the 18th century? Are we certain that the majority of the (rural) population, which was largely unlettered and illiterate identified themselves in any meaningful ethnic way, other than as simple Christians or Muslims.

The processes you describe that might have taken place in Bulgaria, appear to be a fair description of events - however, let's not forget the following:

- LARGE presence of Vlachs in Bulgaria, during the entire medieval period.
- The settlement of Cumans, Gagauz, and other Turkic tribes in significant numbers in Bulgaria.
- The STUNNING AMOUNT of Armenians, Syrians and other easterners settled in southern Bulgaria and Thrace proper (these were settled by the eastern Roman emperors who were largely of Armenian, Syrian stock). More importantly, these Armenians and other easterners, who were also settled in Macedonia, appear to be responsible for the introduction and proliferation of Manichean and other "heretical" beliefs (as deemed by the Orthodox Church), and spawning of the Bogomil movement among the masses. [I may be going off tangent here, as this is being discussed in another thread, but the names TZAKON/TZAKONES first appear to be associated with personal names of easterner army guards, who held "heretical" beliefs.]

As a result, do the Bulgarian armies mentioned by Byzantine sources, also include and encompass (Slavicized) Cumans, Gagauz, Vlachs, Armenians, Syrians, Arabs, and others?
 
Poslednja izmena:
Sima Cirkovic:

"Sudeci po onome sto se do sada utvrdilo u literaturi, odsustvo znatnije toponomastike u severnim delovima Albanije, u zaledju Ljesa, doline reke Mat, sirem podrucju Kroje, treba pripisati okolnosti da se Sloveni u te predele nisu ni naseljavali. Najstariji Arbanon je, bas kao i pojas obalskih naselja, ostao izvan slovenskog domasaja. "

Cirkovic.jpg



Crne tacke predstavljaju slovenske toponime. Cirkovic govori o nekadasnjoj iliriskoj teritoriji gdje su obitavali Illyrii proprie dicti.


nt0QJmN.jpg



Naslov teme treba obavezno promijeniti jer ovo prelazi sve granice ljudskog razuma i strpljenja. Sto se tice slovenskih toponima na jugu Albanije (donja polovica), neka Makedonci i Bugari srede bracne nesuglasice.
 
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