Quantcast
  • Dragi prijatelji, obaveštavamo vas da smo spojili forume "Košarka", "Fudbal", "Tenis" i "Ostali sportovi" u novi forum "Sport" koji se nalazi u kategoriji "Život".

Teorije o poreklu Srba

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Павле Јуришић Штурм (нем. Paulus Sturm) је био Лужички Србин и генерал српске војске током ослободилачких ратова (1912-1918).

Родио се 22. августа 1848. године у Згоржелцу (Лужица), док је Војну академију завршио у Вроцлаву (Шлеска). По завршеној војној школи као официр Пруске учествује у француско-пруском рату (1870-1871).

По избијању непријатељстава између кнежевине Србије и Отоманске империје, долази у Србију и као добровољац учествује у српско-турским ратовима (1876-1878.) са чином командант батаљона, да би крај рата дочекао са чином команданта пука. Током балканских ратова командује дринском дивизијом, која се посебно истакла у Кумановској бици пробивши турску одбрану. Први светски рат дочекао је на челу III армије. Великим залагањем његове III армије спречен је продор аустроугарских трупа у Србију чиме је генералу Степи Степановићу и његовој II армији омогућено да изврши распоређивање и однесе прву победу Антанте над Централним силама у тзв. Церској бици. Као командант III армије учествовао је у операцијама српске војске током јесени 1914. године, чија је последица била величанствена победа у Колубарској бици. Током здруженог напада на краљевину Србију 1915. године у коме су учествовале Аустроугарска, царевина Немачка и краљевина Бугарска трупе под његовом командом пружале одлучан отпор XI немачкој армији спречавајући њен продор ка Моравској долини.

Павле Јуришић Штурм преминуо је у Београду 1922. године.
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Katarina Velika
Русе и Лужичане спаја тесна историјска веза. Истакнуту улогу у историји Русије одиграла је девојчица рођена у Полабској Србији  руска Царица Катарина Друга која се пре преласка у православље звала Софија Анхалт-Цербстска, то јест Српска. Изгледа да је Катарина знала за своје словенске корене, а могуће и локални словенски језик, тим пре што је међу немачком аристократијом било популарно узимати за дадиље и дојиље локалне српсколужичке жене (као што су и у Петербургу узимали за дојиље жене финског говорног подручја). Локално становништво је говорило словенским језиком не само на територији Полабске Србије, већ и Доње Саксоније око Хамбурга  у Вендланду и Линебуршкој пустоши, где је локално становништво говорило језиком Бодрића све до краја XVIII века. Сасвим је могуће да је управо словенско порекло омогућило Катарини да се тако лако и успешно уклопи у словенску средину руске аристократије и донесе поприличну корист Русији.

Jedna mapa iz 300.godine ove ere..gde se vide Venedi, Vendi (Naši Sorbi)- što bi rekli neki- "diljem " cele teritorije gde danas žive Sloveni-specijalno Istočni..

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0300.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Mecklenburg
* Lausitzer Sorben
o Serbskej kulturnej informaciji
o lodla ...
o serbski institut
+ Povezave
o Domovina
o Srbska lipa
* Institut za sorabistiku
http://www.domowina.sorben.com/index.htm
http://www.sorben.de/
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Lusatian State

They are probably the least known nation living in Europe. You can't find their state anywhere, simply because it doesn't exist. They are the smallest Slavonic nation - Lusatian Sorbs.
If you took a closer look at the map of Germany, in SE corner just where German, Czech and Polish border meet, you could find a name of a region - die Lausitz. That's where they live.
Nobody knows, how many Sorbs are there left. Numbers range from 20 000 to 150 000. Everything depends on who do you think the Sorb is. If you put into consideration the ability to speak one of their languages on a daily basis: Lower Sorbian/Lusatian (North of die Lausitz) and Upper Sorbian/Lusatian (South of die Lausitz), you could count just several thousands, if that.
Lusatian Sorbs are a disappearing minority. Or nation, to be more precise - as we've mentioned before, they don't have any state, in which they formed "majority".

Source: http://www-user.tu-cottbus.de?sorben...al/lusatia/htm

They are the last descendants of numerous Slavonic tribes that used to live between rivers Elbe and Saale and Oder. All those tribes were conquered and forcibly christianised by Germans, and as a result of that - slowly germanised (for more info follow this link)
Being small Slavonic island in the German sea they went through tough times in their history. They suffered hostility, persecutions, religious intolerance and persistent attempts to turn them into the Germans. Yet, for a number of reasons, they survived and today - in the time of free market and democracy - one could think that nothing really can threat them.
Unfortunately - and paradoxically - now more than ever they face total extinction. Less and less youngsters want to be bothered in using their native language, which is in fact the most important factor of Sorbian national identity (along with folk culture). Even in privacy of home language is spoken seldom.
Sorbian people have created a few organisations (e.g. Domowina) and projects (e.g. Witaj-project) to protect and promote their national identity, language and culture. It seems however to be not enough.
There's no Lusatian state and the only homeland of Sorbs is German Republic. During communist era Sorbs were highly subsidised minority, being at the same time regime's tool to show how keen on human rights it allegedly was.
It happened only twice when Lusatian Sorbs seriously undertook the initiative of building their own state. This topic is a rarely raised issue amongst Sorbs and others interested in Lusatian matters. Despite all the hesitation and controversy it may cause, and against political correctness this page tells the story of a dream that didn't come true. Tells the story of how Sorbs wanted to build their own independent republic and how they lost that game.
This page will try also to promote the idea that in the matter of fact only free and independent Sorbian State - regardless of size - would be capable to stop the process of germanisation, reverse the menace of destruction of the nation and take a proper care of Lusatian Slavs and their future.
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
The first attempt: 1918 - 1919
Practically since always Sorbs and their land - Lusatia - were part of Germany. Before their tribal state could even turn into medieval monarchy, they were conquered and forcibly christianised and constituted German duchies ever after.
In 19th century, during national awakening, Lusatian representatives tried to win some concessions and basic freedoms for their people (like freedom of using Sorbian language in schools or churches). They didn't achieve much and gaining even the very basic rights was a longstanding process.
Harsh reality made Sorbian people pragmatic and realistic. Geopolitical location didn't make it any easier. Living in one of the strongest (both military and economically) countries on the continent, being small in number, living mixed with German neighbours rather than in close settlements, not having traditions of independent state - they couldn't really do much.
However, towards the end of the World War I international situation changed dramatically - Germany and Austria-Hungary were defeated, revolution spread across Russia, suppressed nations of Central and Eastern Europe and Balkans were gaining independence one after another. Social and political unrest didn't go unattended by Sorbian leaders. One of them - Arnost Bart - making reference to Wilson's principle of self-determination of the nations, as well as unfulfilled declaration of Saxon government given in 1848, demanded granting the Sorbs their national rights and freedoms.
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Info box

Very brief history
Slavonic tribes started to settle down in the area of today's Lusatia around 600 AD. They were mentioned for the first time in old Frankonian chronicles in the early 30s of 7th century.
Until 990 AD we have hardly any written records of their history. In 990 AD they were conquered by the Germans and since that time they remained part of German political organisms (except short period of 1018-1031, when Lusatia was joined to Kingdom of Poland).
In XIV Lusatia became part of Czech Crown. It was one of the reasons why Sorbs survived as Czech rulers weren't particularly interested in germanisation of Slavs there.
In 1635 Lusatia (except city of Cottbus, the capital of Lower Lusatia) became Saxon princes' feud.
In 1815 major part of Lusatia was given to Prussia, which proceeded harsh policy of germanisation of all Slavs within its borders. Since that time Lusatia is divided into Lower Lusatia and Upper Lusatia, more or less reflecting the division between Sorbian languages.
In 1918-1919 Sorbian political leaders made an effort to create free Lusatian state. This attempt failed, and later - during fascist era - all the Sorbian social and political organisations were banned. Sorbs were supposed to cease to exist just as any other non-German nation.
After the war, in 1945-1947 Slavonic leaders made another effort to liberate their nation once again - and once again failed. For the price of total control they were granted certain concession during GDR period.
After reunification of Germany in the early 90s Sorbs still lived divided between Saxony and Brandenburg and struggled with new post-socialist reality.
In November 1918 Serbski Narodny Wubjerk (SNW) or Sorbian National Committee has been created. It was supposed to be a provisional parliament, government and organiser of national movement. Along with it, Serbski Zwjazk (SZ) or Sorbian Association was formed as a mass (app. 36000 members; quite a lot for such a small nation) organisation for all the Sorbs.
At the beginning of December 1918 Bart published Sorbian National Committee's political programme: it demanded unification Upper and Lower Lusatia into one state (Land), still within Germany, granting national and social rights to its people, partition of the big semifeudal land held by German land-owners and protection of Lusatian craft. The document did not say anything about separation from Germany, yet it was emphasised that the Lusatian movement is independent from Poland and Czechoslovakia. One of the reasons why Lusatian politicians decided not to tear off their ties with Germany was that the Lusatian Sorbs - unlike Poles, Czechs and Slovaks - did not have any significant protectors in the West. Nobody could really back them up, so they avoided enraging German authorities.
However even mentioning the "Lusatian case" caused great irritation of Berlin and Dresden governments. This attitude was a basis for publishing in 22nd of December 1918 "The Proclamation to the Sorbian Nation" in which SNW for the first time demanded creation of the independent state for Lusatian Sorbs. Referring again to Wilson's declaration that every nation has the right to self-determine its future Lusatian leaders announced that Lusatian Sorbs are a separate nation and like any other nation they deserve the right to decide about themselves. Moreover, proclamation called for dealing with the "Sorbian question" on forum of the international peace conference.
Such a declaration was surprising not only for the Germans but also for most of the Sorbs themselves. It presented completely new attitude towards problems of the nation. Authors insisted that only Lusatian State could successfully prevent the Sorbs from germination. They argued that creation of the new state is not only necessary but also possible: politically, economically (there is a number of natural resources spread across Lusatia), "territorially" (although Lusatian State would be one of the smallest in Europe there are states like Luxembourg, Andorra or Monaco which prove that territorial size is not the issue - at least not that big issue) and ethnically.
According to plans state was about to cover the historical area of Lusatia with population of app. 280 000. This strip of land meant to connect the new state with Czechoslovakia. Unofficial name for it was Sorb-Lusatian Republic - it was to be declared as a national state of Lusatian Sorbs protecting their national identity and growth, having its own internal and external (foreign) policies, guaranteeing rights also for the German minority within. The state was expected to stay fully connected with religion - Christian values were to be given priority.
The most important groups in state's social and political life meant to be middle class and peasantry. Farmers were the biggest social group in Lusatia hence their interests were to be on agenda of state affairs.
The reaction of Sorbs was diversified - one must not forget, that the whole issue was a project of a small group of national leaders and did not emerge from the people. So after the first wave enthusiasm independence movement was diminishing quickly.
The Germans' reaction was unanimously hostile - press and government launched a series of attacks on "traitors" and "separatists" and fought the movement by any means possible. Germans felt that they were surrounded by a bloc of enemies: France and Belgium from one side and Poland and Czechoslovakia from another. Moreover, growing crisis, political and social chaos, threat of bolshevism made Germans even more paranoid. Any suggestion or mention about Sorbian State added to hostility.
For Entente the "Sorbian question" did not existed at all and the chances of presenting Sorbian opinion or suggestions on an international forum were slim if none. Neither any significant help from neighbouring Slavonic state could change the situation: Poland was still engaged in war, whereas Czechoslovakia tried to play the Lusatian card to win certain concessions for itself.
Saxonian authorities in Dresden categorically opposed any interference of any foreign power to "Wendish question" (Wends - name given to Sorbs by Germans). It claimed either that there's no such a thing as "Wendish question" or that it is totally internal Saxon affair. Bart and the others knew that even with Entente's support there was a long way to go, before anything could be accomplished. Thus creation of Lusatian State was treated as a strategic aim and objective.
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Political realism forced them to seek some kind of compromise with Dresden and Berlin. So from their first programme the "programme minimum" has been extracted. It comprised of demands of: administrative unity and autonomy for national territory of Lusatian Sorbs, creation their own parliament and armed forces, filling positions in administration only with people who could speak Sorbian, guarantee the self-government in the cities (predominantly German) for Germans, binding state and Church where Sorbs lived, teaching religion in schools, creation national school with Sorbian language, teaching Sorbian history and culture, organising seminars for Lusatian teachers, protection of property of the Church, schools and local communities, supporting small and medium sized farms, privatisation of the farms, protection of local industry, lowering taxes and their even spread, simplification of the administration etc.
However even this moderate programme was far too much to be accepted by German authorities. They didn't bother to talk with Lusatian leaders. They talked with Sorbs "faithful and loyal to Saxony" instead. Promises given to these Sorbs - if made - were unbinding and unclear and did not change the situation of the nation at all. Special Committee of Wends Faithful to Saxony was formed - its members were usually germanised Slavs or "real renegades", as they were called by SNW.
That was not all - borders control was tighten (especially one with Czechoslovakia), political leaders and activists were under constant police surveillance.
In Lower Lusatia, where national movement was much smaller and weaker, Prussian government undertook similar steps. Local priests and teachers were obliged to report the atmosphere amongst common people, methods and reach of national agitation, promoters of national movement etc. Along with Dresden Berlin was preparing to allege Czechoslovak intervention to protect Sorbian nation.
For Sorbian leaders the most important thing was to present their demands during peace conference. They counted on support of France and other Entente's states. All these calculations proved wrong.
On the 5th of February 1919 Czechoslovakian president Benes presented Sorbian postulates to the Committee of Ten on the peace conference. He wanted however to win for his country certain concessions in more important territories by playing Lusatian card. He was misleading Lusatian politicians by declarations that Lusatia might be incorporated to Czechoslovakia where it would be granted autonomy. In current situation everything seemed better than staying as a part of Germany.
Realistically there were hardly any chances of joining Lusatia with Czechoslovakia or creating an independent Lusatian state. The winning Great Powers did not put the interest of small nations into consideration. British expert on Central- and East European affairs presented Entente's attitude clearly: "Lusatian Sorbs? - total absurd!" Reanimation of dying nation was definitely not in the interest of stability in Europe, because it would be a dangerous precedent for other small stateless nations in Europe (Scots, Basques), moreover - it could lead to bolshevisation of Germany. Too strong Czechoslovakia was not awaits, either.
Bart had no idea about the real state of the Lusatian issues and organised on the 22nd of February 1919 mass demonstration during which he ensured gathered people that the question of independent Lusatia is already won and that all politicians are working on ensuring the prosperity of the future state.
It shows not only how little the Sorbian leaders knew about political reality of the time but also made a great embarrassment to Czechoslovakia, which couldn't longer hide the sad truth about Lusatian projects and its fate. Bart was informed that "Sorbian question" has been lost (one of the main reasons given was that there were too many Germans living in the state-to-be).
On the 23d of March 1919 SNW sent another memorandum to Wilson in which it suggested creation at least a united Lusatian land within Germany and giving it a protection of League of the Nations. There was no response to this letter, so on the 11th of April 1919 another, even more modest memorandum was sent - again, with no result whatsoever.
Peace treaty with Germany (7th May 1919) didn't say anything about Lusatia - there was only a general clause saying that Germany should treat national minorities accordingly to the way the German minority is treated in neighbouring countries.
SNW leaders sent some more pleas (17th May, 4th June, 7th June), but - again - with no response.
Defeat broke down the national movement of Lusatian Sorbs, Lusatian Association was quickly getting smaller in number, in predominantly protestant Lower Lusatia national movement simply vanished. Bart was trying to save the minimum of the minimum but achieved nothing. Returning from abroad on October 1919 was arrested and sentenced to prison for treason. He wrote later to his comrades from SNW a letter, expressing his bitterness on whole matter, asking them for faithfulness and loyalty to German State and peaceful coexistence between Slavs and Germans.
Several months lasting struggle for independence failed. The reasons for that were, firstly - lack of broad support for the idea amongst majority of Sorbs, secondly - fierce German opposition, and thirdly - lack of international support, or even interest. After losing their battle Lusatian Sorbs had to come to terms with it and try to organise their lives in new Weimar Republic.
It wasn't long before the very existence of theirs was endangered by ruthless fascist rule. In Hitler's plans all the Slavonic nations were supposed to be turned into Germany's slaves, and then wiped out. Lusatians were the first for the obvious reason - they were in Germany already.
World War II was a traumatic event for most of European nations, Sorbs including. Fascist Germany's defeat brought new opportunities for this nation.
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
The second chance: 1945 - 1947
During second World War some 20 thousand (out of 100 thousand) people were killed in Lusatia, but effective persecution lasted since 1933 (Hitler's NSDAP gaining power in Germany). During those 12 years Sorbian national life was endangered more than any time before. Hitler aimed to kill off all the Sorbs who refused to identify themselves as "Wendish speaking Germans". Should war lasted a few years longer, there wouldn't have been any Sorbs any more...
One has to bear in mind that liberation of Lusatia came from Red Army - this fact implicated all the political plans and activities. It was soon realised that nothing can be done in Lusatia without previous Soviet authorities' consent.
"Domowina", national Sorbian organisation, was the first antifascist organisation to be revived in Lusatia (10 May 1945). It won sympathy of the Soviets not only for its antifascism but also for fairly radical economic programme, with proposals of ban on large private land ownership and monopolies (both held by Germans). Its main figures were: J. Cyz, J. Meskank and P. Nedo - all actively involved in national life before the war.
The day before Luzisko-Serbski Narodny Wubjerk (or LSNW - Lusatian-Sorbian National Committee) was created in Prague. It was a strong centre of national movement. Its leaders - M. Krjecmar, K. Kocka, B. Solta, J. Cyz, I. Smoler - were also pre-war political, cultural or social activists.
In July 1945 LSNW moved to Budysin (Upper Lusatia's capital) and started organising local National Committees (Narodne Wubjerki). Many Domowina members joined these Committees, which acted as an initial administrative body for the future state.
On the 26 of January 1946 both Domowina and LSNW created Lusatian National Council, with five LSNW's leaders on top. Since then Domowina focused on cultural and educational activities, whereas LSNW and Lusatian National Council remained political representatives of the nation.
Both organisations represented nationalistic and liberal-democratic orientation. They were hoping for support of democratic states and superpowers, especially the USA. They hoped for Soviet support as well, but in this case whole matter was a bit more complicated. Nationalism and democratic liberalism were completely opposite to what USSR represented and opted for: internationalism, collectivism and communism.
LCNW right from the start insisted on secession of Lusatia from Germany and joining with Czechoslovakia. Memoranda send to Czechoslovak president Benes, Soviet Union leader Stalin clearly presented this desire, justifying them with historical reasons (for many years Lusatia belonged to the Czech crown) and recent events (extermination of the Sorbs by Nazis). Surprisingly this demand wasn't published right away to the public in Lusatia - Czechs knew about the idea (and were very keen on it) earlier than Sorbs themselves.
However pro-Czech orientation wasn't the only one - some leaders preferred either to see Lusatia remaining as part of Germany, or being incorporated to Poland (Poland was now - after its western borders correction - direct neighbour of Lusatia), or as a separate state.
Polish option dated back to the secret contacts between some Lusatian leaders and polish Resistance (Home Army). The idea was to incorporate Lusatia as an autonomous Slavonic state to Poland - it was thought to be a barrier between Poland and Germany. In Poland itself one of the ideas of post-war order in this part of Europe was to create a large, Wets-Slavonic state consisting of Poland, Czech, Slovakia and Lusatia, under Polish leadership (which resembled ideas of first king of Poland, Boleslaw Chrobry, who was trying to unite Western Slavs).
Pawol Nedo, Pawol Cyz and Dr. Jan Cyz were main supporters of the Polish option, which wasn't as strong as the Czech one.
There was yet another factor to be put into consideration: the new Polish western border, on Oder and Nise rivers meant, that eastern part of historic Lusatia belonged to Poland now (east of river Nise). These Polish claims had to be respected by Sorbian leaders and they had to resign from reclaiming those territories for sake of good relationship between them and Poland. This wasn't a question in Czech option.
Pro-German option was the weakest one - for obvious reasons . The idea was to leave Lusatia as part of Germany, but under United Nations control. Poland, Czechoslovakia and USSR were about to be designated to exercise this control. However, being strongly supported by German communists (which were gradually taking over control in part of Germany occupied by USSR) and Soviet occupation administration this programme quickly developed. Soviets claimed that Sorbian question may be solved only within democratic German state. To prove that, German communists presented political programmes that seemed to be democratic and liberal, but in the matter of fact were misleading and only masqued their true intentions of gaining full power.
Communists more and more infiltrated Domowina and this led gradually to split with LSNW. But as far as national principles were concerned Domowina wasn't that easily manipulated. It still demanded joining Upper and Lower Lusatia into one administrative unit, right to set up Sorbian schools, cultural institutions, youth organisations, separate socialist party, its own press and media.
Rising tension between East and West resulted in evolution of Lusatian leaders' plans. They slowly gave up idea of joining with Czechoslovakia, but still demanded secession of Lusatia from Germany. And so idea of independent state revived again. On the 7th of January 1946 in special declaration LSNW demanded recognition of Lusatian National Council as a Lusatian government, inviting Sorbs to the UN, allies' guarantees of independence of Lusatia, right of presenting Lusatian claims on UN forum, excluding Lusatia from the occupation zone). It was handed on 20. August 1946 to Foreign Ministries' Council in Paris.
There was a second postulate that saw Lusatia as a UN mandate territory administrated by the UN or USSR. To ensure that effectiveness of this solution all the administration would have to be ceded into Sorbian or Soviet hands and border security units would have to be created. Sorbian schools, Sorbian national party, removing Germans who were settled in Lusatia as a result of forcible migration from Poland and Czechoslovakia - these are only examples of issues raised in the declaration.
Whereas Czechoslovakia actively supported Sorbian efforts, Yugoslavia was also friendly towards Sorbs, Poland remained neutral, and the only potential supporter in the West was France. France was interested in weakening Germany as much as possible, therefore it would be keen on Lusatian secession. Great Britain, seeing growing Soviet power and threat was against the whole issue. Washington was interested only in economic potential of Lusatia without referring to political questions.
In spring 1947 France gave up its policy of weakening Germany and joined the Western Bloc that was being created by the USA and the UK to stop Soviet expansion in Europe. Hence Sorbs had no active supporters in the West, or in the East. During 1946-47 seven memoranda concerning Lusatian issues were send to different Foreign Ministers conferences (like those in February-April 1946 in Moscow, November-December in London) - none of them was successful.
Creating separate Sorbian state had pros and cons. Geopolitical situation was better after the WWII, the new state would have borders with Czechoslovakia and Poland, and these states would have a their western borders more secure. Lusatian territory was about 7 000 sq. km, it consisted less then 2 percent of German territory as whole. There were approximately 800 thousand inhabitants, of which more or less 100 thousand were Slavs.
The most significant difficulties were: small number of Sorbs scattered irregularly amongst German population, political and economical weakness, German newcomers from Poland and Czechoslovakia who could successfully sabotage any attempts of creating Lusatian state.
The fact that Lusatia was entirely in the Soviet occupation could be interpreted in both ways - neither United Kingdom nor the United States could actively undermine Sorbian efforts, yet Soviet Union itself wasn't interested in solving Sorbian question according to the will of Sorbian leaders (it wouldn't win sympathy of the Germans if it was supporting Sorbs fighting for their state, for secession from Germany).
Sorbian struggles were quite popular amongst common people in Poland and Czechoslovakia, but official circles were more cautious and hesitant. Poland wasn't still sure of its new territories in the west and Czechoslovakia was involved in other cross-border conflicts. Both didn't have enough power to come up with a definite solution, both were also more and more Soviet satellites with no manoeuvre whatsoever in foreign policy.
Hence Sorbs became again a scapegoat of foreign policy and geopolitical situation. No one really cared about them and their claims. The initial enthusiasm was quickly replaced by cold calculation, and Sorbian leaders day-dreaming where crushed by mundane reality.
Source - all text is based upon:
W. Balcerak: Panstwa narodowe Europy Srodkowo-Wschodniej w XX wieku, Mazowiecka Wyzsza Szkola Humanistyczno-Pedagogiczna w Lowiczu, Instytut Historii PAN, Lowicz-Warszawa 2000
Source - all text is based upon:
M. Cyganski, R. Leszczynski: Zarys dziejow narodowosciowych Luzyczan, tom II, lata 1919-1997, Panstwowy Instytut Naukowy, Instytut Slaski, Opole 1997
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Conclusion
It is a sad fact that after struggle lasting longer than one millenium, the smallest Slavonic nation of Lusatian Sorbs faces extinction. Their situation resembles situation of American native Indians - exterminated by hostile newcomers, wiped from their land, closed in reservation - they slowly die(d) out.
Sorbs often say that many times many people predicted their disappearing, yet they are still alive and kicking. Nowadays they have more opportunities, they live in a free, democratic country, they can use their language, they can organise themselves in political or cultural groups... Nothing endangers their existance, however it is clearly visible that "biological substantion" of the nation melts.
In author's personal opinion it is just the matter of time when Lusatian becomes a language spoken only by a bunch of hobbysts and the memory of this Slavonic nation dies. It is worth remembering that there are actually two main factors distinguishing Sorbs from their German neighbours: the language and culture. There are no physical differencies between a German and a Slav - so once the language is not spoken anymore, how can a human being say: "I am a Sorb"? By the sheer fact of having Sorbian ancestors? Memory of ancestors dissapears within three, four generations. If today there is a Sorbian child who cannot speak Sorbian language, it is hardly possible that its offspring will consider itself "Sorbian".
By the same token culture - being another significant mark "who's Sorb, who's not" - does not fulfill it's funtion properly. Germans call Lusatians "Eier-Mahler" - egg-painters (because of tradition of paining eggs on Easter) - this despiseful term only shows the most important feature of Lusatian culture - backwardness. This is a rustical culture, culture of peasants, very traditional folklore, that has nothing really to offer for contemporary youngsters. Young people are the only ones who could save the nation from disappearing, yet the nation does surprisingly little to attract young people to Sorb culture and language.
One cannot expect, that having all the good and attracitve things of todays global culture like computers, internet, pubs, clubs, techno and love parades, travelling and tourism, living nearby buzzy and busy Berlin, being exposed to universal English-speaking countries culture one would dream of nothing else than living in a remote, swampy corner of Germany, without prospects for good education and good work or fulfilling career, painting Easter eggs and learning language hardly spoken by anybody in this world.
The author is strongly convinced that only national state can take a proper care on national culture of any nation given. It is also understandable that no nation can be forced to fight for independence it it does not desire to do so. In other words people like Basques deserve independent state, but apparently most of them feel good being part of Spanish or French nations. There is no point in forcing them to anything if they don't want to.
Sorbian language and culture (and even Sorbs themselves) would undoubtedly better off under their own rule. This doesn't mean, of course, that Federal Republic aims to germanise them, hence Sorbian state is the only way. Germany apparently did the wisest thing of all - they just gave up forcible germanisation letting the time to do the job. Sorbs MUST recognise the fact that in the world changing into one global village there is really little space (if any) for them left. Return to nature, interest in everything that is regional, local - is just another fashion which will disappear as quickly as it appeared. Sorbian leaders cannot then count on some natural power that will bring people back to "being Sorbian".
Amongst the greatest enemies of Sorbs are: apathy, pesimism and inactivity. Not getting invloved actively in tries of rescuing what has remained from Sorbian nation is the greatest sin.
From author's point of view the new discussion on possibilites and solutions for Sorbs is more the necessary. Of course, initiative must come from Sorbs, because no-one can solve their problems better then they. Author believes that reviving discussion about an independend Lusatian state is justified.
First of all we have to repeat - if the majority of Slavs remains not interested or inactive, any initiative undertook may be easily destroyed. Well-thought-out programme presented in an convincing manner by well organised group of people can be a starting point to any further action. What we would have to think about is a kind of manifesto clearly stating what are our aims and how are we going to achieve it. Delivering this message to broader public at this stage would be crucial, as it might win or lose support among masses.
Secondly - it must be realised that Sorbian state - and ONLY Sorbian state can take care of Sorbs. How come, for example, one could expect the English to cherish France and the French without imposing English culture, language, political, social and ecomical systems? Books of history are full of examples of nations which used to be under other nation's rule and what were the sad effects of such a situation (usually either assimilation of the conquered nation, or extermination, or a little bit of both; unless independence was gained).
There are numerous problems, one of them Sorbs being in small number. Different statistics give different figures - usually something in-between 50 to 100 thousand. Not much for a nation, but there are smaller nation (and have their own states). There are at least as many germanised Sorbs (i.e. speaking only German, but in certain conditions ready to come back quickly to their roots).
The other problem: living fully mixed with Germans, when there isn't any place where Sorbs would constitute a majority. Many of those Germans were resettled to Lusatia from Czech Sudetenland and from Silesia, Pomerania and East Prussia in Poland. There is no way they, their children and grandchildren could be expelled in the same way that happend after WWII. They can only be persuaded to move somewhere else. On the other hand if we could imagine what would happen if all the Germans suddenly left Lusatia? Deserted cities, half deserted villages, empty factories, schools... total utopia. But this only shows what kind of problems would the Sorbian state face for saving itself becoming another German-speaking country in Europe.
Economical and political weakness should also be put into consideration. Sorbs do not have any significant economic power. There are no Sorbian companies or banks, no capitals, no fortunes. There is not a single political Sorbian party (although there have been attempts to create one), Sorbs are in the mainstream of German political life. Besides, there are too little of them to form any lobbying or pressure group (immigrants from Turkey, for that instance, do have human potantial to organise themselves into lobbies).
Thirdly - one should realise that even if the biggest Sorbian territorial claims were satisfied, it would constitute less then 2 percent of Federal Republic. It isn't much (could be less) when a existance of a nation is on stake.
Last, but not least - if there are states like Vatican, Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, San Marino or Luxembourg exist, why Sorbian state wouldn't? One could argue that there was no Sorbian state in the past - true, but this doesn't really matter that much. States are being created, partitioned, destroyed, united and so on, because they are human invetion. Something created by humans can be destroyed by humans and vice versa. There was no Israel for two millenia, yet it was no obstacle to create the state. There was no independent Ukraine before the beginning of 90's - but there is Ukraine now. Lack of statehood tradition is a point but not strong enugh - people easily can create one.
Author hopes that this site, when seen by more and more interested people, will initiate some discussion over the question of independence for Sorbian nation. Nowadays internet is marvellous new tool to spread new (and old) ideas, and let's hope this is going to be the case in this matter.
Only me, the author of this site is responsible for any information given and its accuracy. Also opinions and comments are of mine - I take full responsibility for them as well.
I hope this site will keep changing, and that new and valuable and interesting things will be added (especially maps, forum and links).

Martin Burchard
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
http://www.sorben.de/KulturtageBerlin/IntroBerlin.html
http://ski.sorben.com/
http://www.sorbisches-folkloreensemble-schleife.de/
http://www.sorbisches-folkloreensemb...epertoire.html
http://www.serbske-nowiny.de/index.php?main=docs/luzica

Wendish settlements in Victoria, Australia
view map
Which Wendish families immigrated to Australia?
list names
Where did the Wendish people come from?
View Map
They originated from north of the Black Sea about 4000 years ago.
In an era before Christ they settled in the River Vistula region.
Following the decline of the Roman Empire, they travelled in a westerly direction and finally settled in northern central Europe , between the Oder and Elbe rivers.
The Germans vacated the land on which they settled.

http://wendish.concordia.edu/
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Тајна Винете

Друга у низу енигми гласи, шта се догодило са Винетом и њеном славом?
Немачки хроничар Хелмонд из XII века пише: „Овај град био је највећи од свих који окружују Европу и који су настањивали Словени заједно са другим народима, Грцима и Варварима, а када су наишли Саксонци и они су добили дозволу да станују у њему.” Јасно је дакле, ко је овде био старинац, а ко досељеник. Савремена наука помера Винету на сам почетак наше ере, можда и раније.
Рушевине Винете, измећу ушћа Одре и града Камења у данашњој Померанији (од По-мерана, српског племена које је настањивало обалу) могле су се видети у Балтику још у XVI веку, а онда су биле препуштене ћудима хладног мора.
Тек савремена археологија успела је да на ова питања пружи неке одговоре. По типовима керамике, оруђа и станишта сматра се да је праисторијска Лужичка култура, настала на територије данашње Лужице 600 година пре Христа, веома сродна другим прото-словенским културама на Истоку и да је стога претпортавка о прапостојбини сасвим вероватна.
Негдашњи моћни српски градови Велики Радом (Шверин у Макленбургу), Љубичин или Торнов који су откопани и рестаурирани сведоче о моћи древног српског краљевства ба северу Европе.
Новија истрживања померају прве историјске знакове живота Срба на овом простору далеко у прошлост. У сливу Лабе и Сале 101. године био је жесток сукоб Германа са Вендима (Србима), на месту где је седам векова потом, на рушевинама српских градова Ђевина, Солаве, Јароброда и Резна, Карло Велики успоставио франачко-српску границу и „српску марку” и установио пограничне тврђаве Магдебург, Хале, Ерфурт и Рагенсбург и почео немачку експанзију на Исток. Срби су се одупирали седам векова, а потом разједињено, једно по једно племе германизовано падало под добро организовану франачку власт.
Српска Круна

Коначно 806. године одиграла се једна од великих битака између Срба и Франака код места Горе (данас Гера), где је погинуо српски краљ Милдух. Не зна се где је Милдух сахрањен, али о томе постоји једна дирљива легенда: он није погинуо, него са свим српским краљевима спава у једној пећини код Горјелца (данас Герлиц) и пробудиће се кад дође време да поново ускрсне српско краљевство.

Коначно 806. године одиграла се једна од великих битака између Срба и Франака код места Горе (данас Гера), где је погинуо српски краљ Милдух. Не зна се где је Милдух сахрањен, али о томе постоји једна дирљива легендаА затим је дошао одучан ударац. Пише академик Виктор Новак: „Најстрашнија је била битка код Ломчина на Лаби, где је готово цела српска пешадија изгинула”.
Четвртог септембра 922. године одиграла се та силна трагедија. Срби, одасвуд опкољени, још су се борили у Ломчину. У преговорима обећају Немци да ће народу у граду оставити живот, ако се град преда. Немци нису држали реч, поклали су све војнике, а жене и децу одвели у ропство. Хронике Немачке из тог времена кажу да је у бици под Ломчином пало 120.000 Срба. Битка под Ломчином је Косово Лужичких Срба. Јер оно што следи, говори само о етапама које воде у потпуну пропаст, у ропство целог народа. Познато је како је маркгроф Геро (939) позвао тридесет полапских и српских кнезова на вечеру, да се с њима измири.
Али место мира и љубави дао је свима отрова и све их поубијао.
Народ оставши без својих вођа, брзо је подлегао. Око 990. године и последње српско племе, Милчани у горњој Лужици, изгубило је независност.
Али, успомена на српску круну наставила је да живи. Много од српских кнежева прекрстили су се и били су примљени у немачко племство. Они и њиховопотомство одржали су предање о српској круни још пуних хиљаду година.
Тако је херцог Фридрих-Франц од Мекленбурга (1823-1882), српски бодрички кнез 21. генерације, потомак војвода Никлоте, Прибислава и Јанка, установио 1864. „Орден српске круне” од пет степени. Његова раскошна инсигнија са мотом „Пер аспера ад астра” (Преко трња до звезда), може и данас да се види у музеју у Котбусу.
--------------------------------------------------------------
И данас ће вам Лужани са тугом испричати прастару легенду о деоби двојице синова моћног бодричког кнеза Дервана. Одлуче дакле браћа да се оделе. Један са народом остане у Полабљу, а други се са половином народа одсели далеко на Југ.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Али један од дирљивих доказа да се ради о нашим древним прецима су и ветрењаче, давнашњи симбол балтичке низије, којих на Балкану није било до досељавања Северних Срба. Описујући утврђени град Банска Глава у Пиперима „где је стајао бан лужански и велико лужанско гробље” Ердељановић бележи да је ту некада био и млин „старог свијета који је мљео на вјетар”. Гусле са севераМузеј у Котбусу крије и одговоре на многе енигме. Ношње, обичаји и уопште фолклор Лужичких Срба указују на бројне паралеле са народном традицијом балканских Срба. На ово су упозоравали још Натко Нодило и нарочито највећи српски етнолог Веселин Чајкановић, који је своју тежишну тезу о српском врховном Богу извео из из упоредног проучавања лужичког и балканског духовног наслеђа. Тако је главни бог северних Срба био Свантовит, чије се велико светилиште налазило на острву Рујан у Балтичком мору, са примањем хришћанства постао је Свети Вид или један од највећих српских празника Видовдан.
У Лужици се и данас изводи ритуално убијање петла („забијање кокота”), као и код нас, на Св, Мару. О Божићу иду по селима “коледе” (“цампровање” и ”запуст”). О Васкрсу се шарају јаја у фантастичним бојама и правим уметничким радовима сличним чипки , каквих нема нигде осим у нас: музејска збирка у Котбусу чува више стотина оваквих униката. Култ коња и јахања, као траг славних времена и култног значења ове животиње изводи се на сваком Васкрсу и Ивандану, кад Срби, свечано обучени поново јашу Лужицом. После тога играју своје старо српско коло („сербска реја”) уз пратњу гајди („мехова”), и гусала („хусле”). Стари инструменти и арахична српска музика незаобилазни су на сваком прелу , где се и данас окупља омладина. Историја им, дакле није била наклоњена, ап су се од милионског народа свела на око 70.000 мањинаца на острву између река Шпреве и Одре, које поносно називају Србија. Данас су призбнати у покрајинама Саксонија и Браденбург., помаже их и поштује Савезна влада у Бону, иамју своје установе, банке, школе, музеје, позоришта, радио и телевизију. У свакој прилици гордо истичу Србија и српство и то им се данас уважава. Улице у Котбусу у Будишину, сада носе, поред немачких и српске називе. Чувају своју хиљадугодишњу културу и националну посебност не само у односу на Немце, него на њима суседне Пољаке и Чехе.
Али оно што највише плени је национална свест данашњих Лужана. „Ми смо бољи Срби од вас” рекао ми је на растанку један стари Србин са Шпреве, реке која протиче кроз Берлин. „Одржали смо се упркос свему две хиљаде година без ичије помоћи”. У суштини, хтео је да каже шти и први стихови лужичке народне химне:
”Српску славу, српски језик, насиље неће угушити
Јер српство се поново по Лужици шири….”
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Востани Сербие!!

Србство (још) није изгубљено

Hiљće Serbstwo njezhubjene" - гимн лужицких сербов

Hiљće Serbstwo njezhubjene,
swуj љkit we nas ma,
nowy duch wљo wosłabjene
sylnje pozběha:
Bуh je z nami, wjedźe nas,
njepřecel so hiћom hori,
Serbjo, Serbjo wostanu, Serbjo dobudu!

Jeno złуsć so na nas měri,
by nas pућrěła,
njech pak zawistna so љćěri,
njech so přisłodźa:
Bуh je z nami, wjedźe nas,
njeprecel so hiћom hori,
Serbjo, Serbjo wostanu.
Serbjo dobudu!

Zaspanć ћadyn pokhwaleŕski
Serba njezluda,
swobodny duch rjeńљi serbski
křidła rozљěrja:
Bуh je z nami, wjedźe nas,
njepřecel so hiћom hori,
Serbjo, Serbjo, wostanu,
Serbjo dobudu!

Serbow khwalbu, serbske słowo
přemуc njeskazy,
Serbstwo rozsylnja so z nowoh'
w krasnej Łuћicy:
Bуh je z nami, wjedźe nas,
njepřećel so hiћom hori,
Serbjo, Serbjo wostanu,
Serbjo dobudu!

Serbska Klio nowe mjena
wљědnje zapisa;
Łuћica njej' přewinjena
a so njepodda:
Bуh je z nami, wjedźe nas,
njepřećel so hiћom hori,
Serbjo, Serbjo wostanu,
Serbjo dobudu!
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
“Serbia is Our Ancestral Land”

Łužica (Lusatian) Serbs (also called “Sorbs” in foreign sources, although they call themselves by the same name as their Balkan brothers — Serbs: Serbja, Serby)...They are surrounded with 6.5 million Germans in those two provinces, and with 82 million Germans in the entire country.

At the same time, Jan Nuk,( President of the Union of Lusatian Serbs “Domowina” ,asked how will the Kosovo Serbs, surrounded with Albanians, survive. With this heated issue, Nuk attracted attention of the local media and non-governmental organizations and, in response to numerous questions, explained who, according to the historical data, Lusatian Serbs are.
“We call ourselves Serbja, Serb, Serbonjka, and the Serbs in Serbia - South Serbja”, representative of the Serbian nation in Germany said.

He added that, from their initial settlements, Western Serbs were “forcibly pushed into the space between the Elbe River and the gates of Berlin, between Budyšin [Bautzen] and Kočebuz [Cottbus], formerly marshy and deserted land, which they turned into a fertile region with their hard work.”

Lusatian Serbs consisted of numerous tribes, the most prominent of which were the Milceni [Milčani] and Serbs, in the regions of Obodrit, Ljutiša, Velet, Gomačan and Stodoran. In the 7th century, Western Serbian Prefect Dervan joined the Samovoj country, and in the 8th and 9th century some tribes merged to create a strong defense front, but after the end of the fighting or death of the Prefects (some of them are known by the names, such as Miloduh, Dragovit) they were again separated. Western Serbs became victims of Franc and German feudal lords, but they survived that too. They fiercely defended their land and freedom, leading some historians to the conclusion that the Tribe Ljutić (Fiercemen) was a name given because they were fierce fighters, striking dread in the enemy.
“In 805, to insure the most efficient countering of the Serb defense, Charlemagne constituted Limes Sobaricus, the beltway region where it was strictly prohibited to sell weapons to the Serbs. Charlemagne’s order from the year 807 testifies that Serbs were far from being an easy prey. Here, he instructed his underlings: ‘if the Czechs attack us, third of the army should get into the battle; if the Serbs attack us, use the whole army’,” Nuk reminded.

Feudal German expansion lasted over 200 years. In the 10th century Lusatians were defeated, then Milčani, and by the end of the century all Lusatian Serb country was occupied by the Germans.
From the 12th century, the conquerors began ruthless colonization Lusatian Serbs are still opposing.

Lusatian Serbs were the first to give names to the towns they were inhabiting since the 6th century. Thus, the city which is today called Dresden was originally named Drježdzen by the Western Serbs. Budyšin was germanized into Bautzen, Lipsk in Leipzig, Kamjenica into Chemnitz, river Sprjewja to Spree, Lubinjow to Lübbenau… They also gave the first name to today’s metropolis - Brljin (brlog), by the mud ponds the town was surrounded with, which was later turned into Berlin.

The wars kept storming through the Lusatian Serb land: Thirty Years’ War, Seven Years’ War, Napoleon wars, the First, then the Second World War.
The wars were followed by the plague, famine and emptying of the villages, and then re-colonizations by the Germans. Colonizations reinforced the Germanization. Serbs were prohibited from speaking their language even in their homes and within the family, they were not allowed to wear their national costumes (so the male national costumes were eventually completely lost), Serb girls were not allowed to wear any jewelry, Serb men could not wear traditional leather shoes.

http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=5447
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...ster_2009.html
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Трагови живљења српског у Ђерманији


Остатци имена места и т.д. које сада наводимо, нека кажу о себи више и боље него сви нагађачи и погађачи, тамо живи ли и jош неки други Славени, ван Срба: је cу ли Бодрић, Цртаво, Србиште, Морача, Преслава, Дрбић, Матица, Кућан, Љутић, Драгун, Пљунск, Сусла, Љубица, Добуњ, Врља, Швања, Hиш, Милахов, Kићан, Востров, Калиш, Лењак, Димин, Плот, Ратар, Борч, или Борач, Љешан, Велегошт, Лошица, Рјечниц, Штитно, Хатков, Требељ, Требиње, Јармени, Столп, Узноим, Штетин, Аркона, Српци, Волин, Старград, Београд, Славно, Словац, Дрљави, Вршањ, Вишеград, Данск, Вратислав, Бреслава, Коренић, Кореница, Каљогаз, Баре, Коло, Ратибор, Ладан, Звјерин, Добиво, Добињ, Сгорјелац, Бранденбург, Градиште, Видаково, Вид, Чедно, Пирић, Старград, Бјелград, Градић, Перун, Крстово, Костна, Остражња, Љубич, Белбог, Велегост, Леб,
Реке: Златица, Нишава, Требињица, Пена, Травна, Свала, Лаба, Бистрица, Моравица, Лебица, Преканица, Дубица, Дриницa, Старача, Тимок, Љиг, Јасеница. Рибница и т.д.
Даље градови: Кремниц, Златан, Вид, Трст, Крупина, Кушиња, Трнава, Хулмић, Штавница, Бистрик, Лавица, Жељин, Радовци, Биp, Оштрихолм, Opaшje, Поток, Гута, Сирак, Мелаковци, Ђеда, Пазнић, на р. Пазица, Топлица р. Чик, Грана, Tиса р: Штира р: Ужице, Липљан Радовић, Папрад, Росица, Струга, Рашка р. Србиште, Црновци, Драговци, Дугопоље, Ђурин, Бop, Миладин, Поморјани, Добромил, Добуј, Tешањ, Рудник, Трнав, Белопоље, Ломача, Горјан, Коштан р; Бучањ, Љутин, Љутица, Ружин, Припет, Призрен, Марица р: Дражња, Шевин, Дубица, Звечан, Струмен, Козељац, Стојетин, Радомир, Сузица, Нишица, Мисљенице, Породим, Дрил р: Дрилача, Борић, Бојанов, Стобрава, Бродица р: Бучава р: Јелда р: Косина, Лењица, Кошћани, Роса, Опаљеници, Језава, Међуречан, Пореч, Ћетице, Чубин, Рогошани, Кособрдо, Трешин, Десница, Каменица, Cpбица. Белова, Будишин, Будин, Гљивица. Десава, Сава р. Жаровица, Орид, Старидол, Крушевац. Бpeшћe, Среш, Cрем, Ступица, Земљан, Кожин, Добрин, Млава р: Ђевин, Рацијева, Гује р:, Поступин, Копаоник, Осма р; Оборник, Видовка, Међана, Клапова, Вид р. и град, Mезирић, Прибор, Страхањице, Oбилић, Капљице, Сријелци, Opлицe p., Ковин, Градчаница р; Коштин, Рујани, Мачкови, Вишеград, Луковице, Борић, Црница р. Висока, Триглав, Тројан, Ломача р. Невесин, Kpкa, Олава; Љика, Бран, Љесковац, Зенице, Сјеница, Свидница, Вучитрн, Тимок, Косовица, Љубој, Врања, Новобрдо, Разтока, Дубница, Милошац, Згођело, Рашан, Зворник, Локвањ, Велешт и т.д.
Но нека се узме: да сва та имена припадају свима слав: племенима што непостоји, онда питамо: зашто се остатци ти ђерманских Срба, или те велике некадашње Cpбије дан: Лужичани, који живе у Саксонији - језгри Немаца — и Прусији — највећој немштини - незову као ма какво друго слав; племе; него се зову Србима или по свом наречију српском Серсима, Cарсима, Саробима, Сербима и т.д.?

Две песме народње дан. Лужничких Срба


Штавише и у својим песмама зове се тај мали остатак Срба, који као острвић (?) лежи у ужасном сада простору немачком, само Србима. Међу ocталим доказима само ћемо навести ове две њихове песме:
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Сербјо cо до Немцов хотоваху.
Словечка пак њемска немужаху.
Своје сеј коњики седоваху
Своје сеј втраху ишипасаху,
Свеје сеј мечики ишипасаху,
До рунох поља со сјездоваху.
Прјени круч нa војну ћexникy,
Велке там добићје счиниху.
Дал бје то зхонил там краљ а фјершта,
Дал је их вшитких вун вшед со ишнић:
Дал је их вшитких вун звобљекаћ:
До љутох' червенох' чорлаха,
Други кpућ нa војну ћexнику.
Вуљке там добићје счиниху.
Диж бје то зхонил там краљ, а фјершта.
Дал jе иx вшитких вун нову драста.
Tpeћи крућ нa војну ћехнику,
Вулке там добићје счиниху.
Диж бје то зхонил там краљ, а фјершта,
Дал је вун којждему ризи коња,
Хишће тои свјетли меч зејровану.



Но да се види: да се и женскиње зове Српкињама, а не само мушкарци Србима, ево такође песме:


Сим Сербов, Серске Холечо,
Ми Анка рјекаја,
А весље себи спјевајо,
Мам спјешносћ до ђела.
Диж шковранчк ранко заспјева,
Ми спјева к ставању,
А једу ли до ђећеља,
У њим спјевам на пшемо.
На межу јежу зељену,
Серп тупи вотсју сеј,
А жњеју траву росоиту,
На мези квјеткој теј.
А диж со ручка вомачка,
Теј травеј росојтеј,
Ми першћењ мој со блискота,
На ручци, на мокреј,
Тон першћен мам вот љубехо,
Рјанехо нахола,
К нам, вечор дижсо чисмјеркло,
Мој љуби пшикхађа.
Сим зими к новеј кошуљци,
А к платej на пшадла,
Плат давно је жњо наткањи,
Плат требам невеста.
Теж пepje je шо вудрене,
На долгих вечорах,
Диж посљешћа мам хотове,
Ве својих коморках.
За червењи бант на хлави,
Ћу шјећ вјенц рућањи,
Maћ буђе чјеицов купић ми,
За дрохе пењези.
Ми дружчић буђа Хољеча,
Те весње товаршка,
А буђе квасна хошћина,
Пшед теи дњи заспохи


Miloš Milojević, str.150-152
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19505861/M...-Istorije-Srba
 

korkanj

Ističe se
Poruka
2.464
Ko hoće da nauči Luzičko Srpski i da komunicira sa njima evo mala pomoć za početak

Hornjoserbsko = Deutsche = Serbski (Српски) = Dolnoserbski
słownik = Wörterbuch = rečnik (pечник) = słownik

Hornjoserbski alfabet
A B C Ć Č D Dź E F H Ch I J K L Ł M N O P R S Š T U W Z Ž
a b c ć č d dź e ě f h ch i j k l ł m n ń o ó p r ř s š t u v w x y z ž

Deutsche alfabet
A Ä B C D E F G H I J K L M N O Ö P Q R S T U Ü V W X Y Z
a ä b c d e f g h i j k l m n o ö p q r s ß t u ü v w x y z

Serbska azbuka latinica
A B C Č Ć D Dž Đ E F G H I J K L Lj M N Nj O P R S Š T U V Z Ž
a b c č ć d dž đ e f g h i j k l lj m n nj o p r s š t u v z ž

Српскa aзбука ћирилица
А Б В Г Д Ђ Е Ж З И Ј К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С Т Ћ У Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш
а б в г д ђ е ж з и ј к л љ м н њ о п р с т ћ у ф х ц ч џ ш

Dolnoserbski alfabet
A B C Č D E F H Ch I J K L Ł M N O P R S Š Ś T U W Y Z Ž Ź
a b c ć č d e ě f h ch i j k l ł m n ń o ó p r ř s š t u v w x y z ž ź

a = und = i = ?

a! = ah!, ach! = ah! = ?

abo = oder= ili (или) = ?

abstraktny = abstrakt = sažetak (cажетак) = ?

acur = Azur = obala (oбала) = ?

aděrować = addieren = dodati (додати) = ?

adjektiw = Eigenschaftswort, Adjektiv = pridev (придев) = ?

adwerb = Adverb, Fürwort = zamenica (заменица) = ?

aj = ei = ej = ?

akuzatiw = Akkusativ = akuzativ (aкузатив) = ?

ale = aber, sondern = ali (али) = ?

Amerika = Amerika = Amerika (Америка) = ?

ani = weder, noch = niti (нити) = ?

apryl = April = april (април) = ?

aspekt = Aspekt = aspekt (aспект) = ?

atmosfera = Atmosphäre = atmosfera (aтмосфера) = ?

awgmentatiw = Vergrößerungsform, Augmentativ = uvecan obrazac ,augmentativ (yвећан образац) = ?

awto = Auto = auto (аутомобил) = ?

awtor = Autor = autor (аутор) = ?
__________________
SERBUS GENERE
http://www.archive.org/stream/origin...ge/n5/mode/2up

Polish Hussar = Serbian Gusar
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8629/slicnost.jpg


http://www.sokol.sorben.com/

Hoj horje serbski Sokole,
Hoj horje, leć na straž!
Nad Błóta, pola, nad hole,
O leć, štož mocy maš!
Přec dale, dale, wyše, słyš,
Nad serbske hory leć,
Hač do mróčeli dorazyš,
Wšěch Serbow k sebi zwjedź.
Hoj, horje, serbski Sokole,
A njewjedra wšě zlem!
O słowjanski ty posole,
Zbudź cyłu serbsku zem'!
Přec dale, dale, wyše, słyš,
A ty so njepodaš!
Ty z křidłom tam, my z pažu tu,
Smy młódna naša straž.
 

Nordijanac

Zainteresovan član
Poruka
127
Znano je, da Njemci su poćeli nazivati sve Slovene /Slovane kao Wenden i tako to i Luzitanske Sorbe.
Ali istotako WIKI već zna, da je to politićki konstrukt, link sam linkao već jućer ovdje, pa vidim da ništa nije bilo proćitan, ovdje ga još jednom:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenden a verovatno ne razumjete Njemaćki šta piše kod odjelka "Politizacija termina Wenden"

Srbi i Sorbi nemaju nikakve veze a Wenden izviraju iz Veneta iz naših krajeva i ne obrnuto kod nama ima ranije izvore o njima.
 

Nordijanac

Zainteresovan član
Poruka
127
... a ova debata več dugo nije više legitimno istorijsko arumentirana tako da nema smisla više pisati fantastićkih i falsificiranih teksta sa vaše strane. Argumente da mi Slovenci nismo Srbi sam napisao, vi pa sada furajte svoju ideologiju dalje, ko će vas slušati i pridavati gasa na tom provociranju (naravno vaši simpatizeri ali mase pućanstva nagovarali i palili su već drugi diktatori u istoriji, to je takisto znano pošto tom naćinom sami sebe su okrunali na vlast).
 
stanje
Ova tema je zatvorena zbog neaktivnosti. Molim objavite novu temu i pridružite se diskusiji.

Top
  Blokirali ste reklame
Dragi prijatelju, nemojte da blokirate reklame - isključite Ad Blocker na Forumu, jer će tako mesto vaših susreta na Krstarici ostati besplatno za korišćenje.