Slovensko nasleđe u Grčkoj

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URL:
http://web.rgzm.de/en/exhibitions-e...dence-from-rescue-excavations-in-arcadia.html

The Slavs in the Peloponnese: New evidence from rescue excavations in Arcadia

Vortrag von Dr. Demetrios Athanasoulis (Athen)

Within the years 2009-2010, the former 25th Ephorate of Byzantine Antiquities conducted numerous rescue excavations in the prefecture of Arcadia during the construction of a new national road crossing the Peloponnese. This public project was an opportunity for new archaeological investigations concerning the unknown settlement history in the Peloponnese during the Dark Ages and the Middle Byzantine Period.

Among the most interesting discoveries were two cemeteries of the 7th-9th/10th c., consisting of pits with cremation urns, being undeniably a burial custom linked with Early Slavic populations and reflecting the migration and installation of the Slavs in the very south of the Byzantine Empire. In particular, in one of the cemeteries appeared graves with inhumations next to traditional cremations, reflecting furthermore the process of the Christianization of the Slavs during the Middle Ages. Slavic burial practices were also detectable in a Christian cemetery of the Byzantine period by the presence of a cremation urn among the inhumations, but also by finds of slow wheel made pots in some of the graves.

These unique archaeological findings were the starting point to establish a research group to examine the still unknown Slavic culture of the Byzantine Peloponnese. Aim of this lecture is, to give an insight into the current state of this research.
 
Како је ХИПОКРАТ, назвао СУРУТКУ?
.....
СУРУТКУ, добијину од СИРА, он је назвао СЕРУМ, илити СИРУМ!
Ете ти га сад!
Дакле та чувена реч СЕРУМ је ништа друго до СИРУМ! тј СУРУТКА!

https://www.detourbar.com/pages/the-story-of-whey
460 BC
FOUNDING FATHER OF MEDICINE
Hippocrates, the Father of Modern Medicine (the Hippocratic Oath is named after him) around 460 BC starts prescribing whey to his patients. “Serum” as he called it was given to patients as an immune-system booster.

https://sr.womeninahomeoffice.com/zdravlje/mlechni-serum.html
"млечни серум" а оно сурутка брале!

edu-story-of-whey-460_275x.jpg
 
URL:
https://antikleidi.com/2015/10/07/onomata_xorion/

Prevod nekih zanimljivih delova; vecina toponima se odnosi na Peloponez. Thank you Google Translate.

Translation of some parts, although it may not be entirely correct.

1) At that time folklore began to appear and with the first laws for the administrative division of the country began to borrow from Greek antiquity names for the regions, prefectures, provinces, municipalities and settlements, ignoring the old historical names. Very soon the name of Morea was replaced by the Peloponnese, Roumeli replaced by Sterea, Evropos by Euvoia. In the first decree of 3 April 1833, we see the first provincial denominations. But also the newly created Municipalities took ancient Greek names. The names of the mountains are also changed: Vodias (Παναχαϊκό), Ziria (Κυλλήνη), Liakoura (Παρνασσός), Helmo (Αροάνια).

2) Until 1909, 23 settlements were renamed. And then there is a great incision. It was decided that the organized national enterprise for the Hellenization of the names of the settlements with the decree "on setting up a committee to study the toponyms of Greece and the verification of their historical discourse". After the end of the Balkan wars and under the pressure of critical national issues, the Greek state decided massive Hellenization by changing all the names of cities and villages that did not have a Greek root but Turkish, Slavic, Vlach, Arvanite or otherwise, with the reasoning that toponyms should be in line with the official language, Greek. For this reason, prefectural committees were set up by professors, archaeologists, ordinary civil servants, who officially took over the patriotic duty of the government under a legislative decree of 1926 (ratified by a new decree of 13 November 1927 and Law 4096/1929) Renaming the foreign-sounding names of settlements, villages and towns, even providing for legal sanctions for offenders.

3) The committees set up for these purposes, in their attempt to change the names, often came to grotesque results. They filled the map of Greece with 34 Kallitheas, 10 Achladies, 22 Milies, 18 Platanias, 21 Kastanies, 14 Cherrasia, 25 Kalyvia, 11 Kefalovrysa and so on.

4) Until 1928, about 2,500 settlements are renamed! This year, the first names changes were made in our area (meaning in a specific area in Peloponnese): Arphara were named Ampelokipoi and Vlovoka was named Aigai. Between 1929-1952 there are 354 names. During the five-year period of 1953-1957, there were 760. In 1955, in particular, it was the year of the mass change in the names of our villages, namely: Arahova became Εξοχή, Vergouvitsa became Μοναστήρι, Svyro became Όαση, Valkuvina became Άμπελος. In 1957, the renaming process was completed (locally) with Versova (Βερσοβά), which became Chrysanthio.

5) The interior ministry approves sporadically a renaming of "barbarous" settlements, such as that of «Νέων Λιοσίων» to «’Ιλιον», in September 1994.

6) Apart from this historical review, it is also interesting to find out what those names mean, despite their compulsory change (through the national politics of the last century), they do not go out of the folk and they are used unchanged from generation to generation for hundreds of years.
 
AELarisa:
The village where i come from and all the other nearby villages were renamed in 1927. All of them slavic toponyms.
The only toponym that stayed the same was Velika beach (it was just a beach, so not important to them).
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AELarisa how are you? Hope you are doing well.

It seems extremely unlikely that such villages, settlements, toponyms were founded by medieval Greek-speakers. The process of (self-)hellenization of the residents themselves took place much later than usually believed or assumed.


Unrelated:
I was doing some research last night about Vergouvitsa which became Μοναστήρι (Monastiri). Vergouvitsa is located in the Achaea prefecture, Peloponnese. It appears that one of the prominent families of Vergouvitsa is Rozos with origins from the Vlach-speaking Metsovo region. The family tradition says that long before the revolution of the 1821 the Rozei came from the Metsovo region of Epirus to Vergouvitsa. There are many Rozei in Metsovo today. Indeed, a few decades ago, the mayor of Metsovo was apparently Georgios Rozos. Of course, this tells us nothing of the distant history or founding of Vergouvitsa.

http://rozos.blogspot.com/2008/02/blog-post_3231.html?m=1
 
AELarisa:
The village where i come from and all the other nearby villages were renamed in 1927. All of them slavic toponyms.
The only toponym that stayed the same was Velika beach (it was just a beach, so not important to them).
Kliknite za proširenje...
Hi and welcome AELarisa!

Can you provide us with an English translation of the passage by Const. Ekonomou (
Κωνσταντίνος Οικονόμου ο εξ Οικονόμων) :
iINdS4B.jpg


We've had two candidats who claimed to understand Greek until one asked them to translate something. Now we have only you. Can you help us with as precise as possible translation of this passage.

The topic is here:

https://forum.krstarica.com/threads...alektu-starogrckog-jezika-ko-su-eolci.825755/
 
Carlin15:
AELarisa how are you? Hope you are doing well.

It seems extremely unlikely that such villages, settlements, toponyms were founded by medieval Greek-speakers. The process of (self-)hellenization of the residents themselves took place much later than usually believed or assumed.
Kliknite za proširenje...
Hey Carlin!
I am fine, back from my vacation. I hope everything is fine there too.

The Slavs in Greece were hellenized mostly by the Greek Orthodox church. And in more recent times, by the Greek schools.

Mrkalj:
Hi and welcome AELarisa!

Can you provide us with an English translation of the passage by Const. Ekonomou (

We've had two candidats who claimed to understand Greek until one asked them to translate something. Now we have only you. Can you help us with as precise as possible translation of this passage.

The topic is here:

https://forum.krstarica.com/threads...alektu-starogrckog-jezika-ko-su-eolci.825755/
Kliknite za proširenje...

Hello Mrkalj!

The text is in Byzantine Greek and also has a quotation of ancient Greek, so it is not so easy to understand if you know just modern Greek.

The translation is:

In this [study], Slavic and Russian phrases and words are compared to the similar sounding Greek ones, mostly consisting of ancient Aeolic words. We write the Greek words along with the Slavic and Russian ones, so that we can clearly show the similarities between those languages. We put the Aeolic phrases together with the respective ones of the Attic and Koine dialects.

[then Economou adds a quotation of Plato's dialogue "Kratylos", where Socrates, Kratylos and Ermogenis argued on the correct meaning and names of nouns]

"As for the names of the cities, their names are the same, for all of the Greeks and for foreigners"
Of the nouns used in the many Greek dialects, the Aeolic ones are closer to the Slavic ones. As for the formation of words [sequence of phonemes], we should remind to the reader that "every language has its own characteristics". Characteristic of the Slavs is the rough sound of letters, that do not sound like the Greek ones.
 
Petar Skok:

Same pak Romane Sloveni nijesu nikada nazivali njihovim narodnim imenom. ...oni stvoriše naziv Vlah, koji označuje najprije balkanske Romane, a onda i apeninske.

Značajno je što Vizantija od Slovena preuzima ovaj naziv za balkanske Romane. To je zbog toga što u prvo doba Romaios u Vizantu znači i Grka i Romana, to jest svakoga pripadnika istočno-rimskoga carstva. Još kod cara Konstantina romaisti znači i grčki i latinski. Grčki naziv vlahos gubi naskoro vezu sa narodnošću i označuje seljaka i pastira uopće, to jest socijalnu vrstu koju su Sloveni i balkanski Romani pretstavljali zajedno.
:hvala:
Kako Vizantiju kasnije u 14. vijeku nadomještavaju na Balkanu Turci, oni preuzimlju od njih i naziv Iflak.
:hvala:
Da je u okrugu Akarnanije i Etolije bilo Slovena, dokazuje nesumnjivo okolnost što se je u srednjem vijeku ovdje obrazovala oblast Mala Vlaška, nazvana ovako za razliku od Velike Vlaške u Tesaliji, i Gornje Vlaške u Epiru. U Epiru ili Gornjoj Vlaškoj nestalo je Slovena istom u 16. vijeku. Moramo, dakle, pretpostaviti da je u Maloj Vlaškoj moralo biti Slovena. I zaista u okrugu Akarnanije nailazimo na čisto slovenska imena naselja, i to baš uz morsku obalu. Tako istočno od ostrva Lefkasa na podnožju akarnanijske gore ima danas selo Zabérda. Ovo je očito slovensko ime mjesta Zabrda, koje se nalazi nebrojeno puta na srpsko-hrvatskoj teritoriji.
:hvala:
 
AELarisa:
Hello Mrkalj!

The text is in Byzantine Greek and also has a quotation of ancient Greek, so it is not so easy to understand if you know just modern Greek.

The translation is:

In this [study], Slavic and Russian phrases and words are compared to the similar sounding Greek ones, mostly consisting of ancient Aeolic words. We write the Greek words along with the Slavic and Russian ones, so that we can clearly show the similarities between those languages. We put the Aeolic phrases together with the respective ones of the Attic and Koine dialects.

[then Economou adds a quotation of Plato's dialogue "Kratylos", where Socrates, Kratylos and Ermogenis argued on the correct meaning and names of nouns]

"As for the names of the cities, their names are the same, for all of the Greeks and for foreigners"
Of the nouns used in the many Greek dialects, the Aeolic ones are closer to the Slavic ones. As for the formation of words [sequence of phonemes], we should remind to the reader that "every language has its own characteristics". Characteristic of the Slavs is the rough sound of letters, that do not sound like the Greek ones.
Kliknite za proširenje...
Many, many thanks to our precious Greek correspondent AE Larisa!

Prevod na srpski glasi, dakle:

Mrkalj:
...
Kliknite za proširenje...

U ovoj [studiji], slovenski i ruski izrazi i reči dati su uporedo sa grčkima koje slično zvuče, a čine ih uglavnom staro-eolske reči. Pišemo grčke reči uporedo sa slovenskim i ruskim, da bismo mogli jasno pokazati sličnosti između tih jezika. Stavljamo eolske izraze zajedno sa odgovarajućim izrazima atičkog i koine (književnog) dijalekta.


[potom Ikonomu dodaje citat Platonovog dijaloga "Kratil", gde Sokrat, Kratil i Ermogen raspravljaju o tačnom značenju i nazivima imenica],


"Što se naziva gradova tiče, njihovi nazivi su isti za sve Grke i strance".
Među imenicama koje se koriste u mnogobrojnim grčkim dijalektima, eolske imenice su bliže slovenskima. Što se tiče tvorbe reči [redosledu fonema], podsetićemo čitaoca da "svaki jezik ima svoje vlastite osobine". Osobina Slovena je grub zvuk slova [fonema] koja ne zvuče kao grčka.
 
Carlin15:
Unrelated:
I was doing some research last night about Vergouvitsa which became Μοναστήρι (Monastiri). Vergouvitsa is located in the Achaea prefecture, Peloponnese. It appears that one of the prominent families of Vergouvitsa is Rozos with origins from the Vlach-speaking Metsovo region. The family tradition says that long before the revolution of the 1821 the Rozei came from the Metsovo region of Epirus to Vergouvitsa. There are many Rozei in Metsovo today. Indeed, a few decades ago, the mayor of Metsovo was apparently Georgios Rozos. Of course, this tells us nothing of the distant history or founding of Vergouvitsa.

http://rozos.blogspot.com/2008/02/blog-post_3231.html?m=1
Kliknite za proširenje...
For what it is worth:

Vrgada
Vrgoči
Vrgorac (Hr)
Vrgaševići
Vrgudinac
Vrgnovac
Vrgoča
Vrgorac (BiH)




vrgnuti
Etymology
From Proto-Slavic *vьrgnǫti (Russian повергнуть (povérgnut'), Polish wiergnąć), from Proto-Indo-European *werg- (Ancient Greek ἔργον (érgon), Sanskrit वर्जति (varjati)).
Pronunciation
  • IPA(key): /ʋr̂ɡnuti/
  • Hyphenation: vrg‧nu‧ti
Verb
vȑgnuti pf (Cyrillic spelling вр̏гнути)
  1. (transitive) to throw
  2. (transitive) to place, put
  3. (reflexive) to take after
 
Poslednja izmena:
Mrkalj:
Petar Skok:

Same pak Romane Sloveni nijesu nikada nazivali njihovim narodnim imenom. ...oni stvoriše naziv Vlah, koji označuje najprije balkanske Romane, a onda i apeninske.

Značajno je što Vizantija od Slovena preuzima ovaj naziv za balkanske Romane. To je zbog toga što u prvo doba Romaios u Vizantu znači i Grka i Romana, to jest svakoga pripadnika istočno-rimskoga carstva. Još kod cara Konstantina romaisti znači i grčki i latinski. Grčki naziv vlahos gubi naskoro vezu sa narodnošću i označuje seljaka i pastira uopće, to jest socijalnu vrstu koju su Sloveni i balkanski Romani pretstavljali zajedno.
:hvala:
Kako Vizantiju kasnije u 14. vijeku nadomještavaju na Balkanu Turci, oni preuzimlju od njih i naziv Iflak.
:hvala:
Da je u okrugu Akarnanije i Etolije bilo Slovena, dokazuje nesumnjivo okolnost što se je u srednjem vijeku ovdje obrazovala oblast Mala Vlaška, nazvana ovako za razliku od Velike Vlaške u Tesaliji, i Gornje Vlaške u Epiru. U Epiru ili Gornjoj Vlaškoj nestalo je Slovena istom u 16. vijeku. Moramo, dakle, pretpostaviti da je u Maloj Vlaškoj moralo biti Slovena. I zaista u okrugu Akarnanije nailazimo na čisto slovenska imena naselja, i to baš uz morsku obalu. Tako istočno od ostrva Lefkasa na podnožju akarnanijske gore ima danas selo Zabérda. Ovo je očito slovensko ime mjesta Zabrda, koje se nalazi nebrojeno puta na srpsko-hrvatskoj teritoriji.
:hvala:
Kliknite za proširenje...

XPEHu90.jpg

y0X8ATl.jpg


It's not a secret that there were many Slavs in Acarnania, Aetolia, etc. The modern ethnic Greek residents of what was once Upper Vlachia, Little Vlachia and Great Vlachia are essentially of (mixed) Vlach, Slavic and Arvanite/Albanian ancestry, with smaller infusions of other elements one being the Armenians (yes, even some Armenians settled in Epirus and Thessaly). Who can also forget or discount the medieval settlements of Yoruk Turks in Thessaly. That is the "brutal" truth, although many here may condemn or disagree with my statements and say how I have clearly missed the "ethnic Greek dominant element" in all these regions.

i78JxNG.jpg
 
Lesandar:
Ево ти, рецимо 5 Ораховица

Pogledajte prilog 571381

И неколико Бањица

Pogledajte prilog 571382
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URLs:
http://www.karyes.gr/index_en.html
http://www.karyes.gr/history/romanbyz_en.html#arachova

Karyes (Arahova)

- Karyes is a traditional village, nested on the foothill of mountain Parnon and surrounded by chestnuts and walnuts. It is situated in the northern-east side of Laconia prefecture, neighboring Arcadia prefecture, and in 950m of altitude.

- In Byzantium the place has been renamed as Megali (Great) Arachova, a name that was kept since the 20th century. The origin of the name Arachova is due to either the Slavic language (= place of wallnuts) or Vlach (= mountain ridge). Its inhabitants were well known for their independent spirit and they were sacrificed for the Hellenic nation's struggles.

- The area was renamed as Arachova and under the Franks occupation was referred to as Great Arachova. The origin of the name Arachova was considered until recently to be of Slavic origin from the words орех (orech) = walnut and орахов (orachov) = made of walnut and therefore Arachova means place of walnuts. The above approach is not well justified and probably incorrect and it is assumed that this wrong approach of the origin of the word and its association with the word walnut and nuts, probably began from the Great Arachova of the "Chronicle of Morea", which are the today's Karyes Laconias, in location of which were ancient Karyes. Historians have tried to associate the name Arachova to ancient Karyes, but the settlers of that region for that period were likely non-Greek speaking and reasonably unaware of the area names of ancient Laconia. Even assuming that the word originates from the Slavic word орахов (orachov) = made of walnut, this can not reasonably explain the disappearance of the original letter omicron (O) from all sixteen toponyms in Greece, an unexplained linguistic change in such an extensive geographical area, while all "Orehovica" toponyms that exist in the Balkan Peninsula remain unchanged.

According to a recent study (2), there are eleven (11) toponyms in Greece with name Arachova and origin of the name is Vlach and not Slavic, from the Vlachs who inhabited Peloponnesus long before the 13th century. The Vlachs along with the Slavic tribes inhabited the area since the 8th century. In Vlach language there is the word recha that is the mountain ridge -loan from the Greek language-that may be associated with the word rachas-rachados (5th century), often characterized sites in the Greek area during the Roman era and meant arboreal regions. Another element that seems to confirm the Vlach origin of the name Arachova is the original vowel alpha (A), which is a characteristic addition in the language of Vlachs at the beginning of words that are loans from other languages and especially those beginning with an "r". Thus the name Arachova is associated to the characteristic of a mountain ridge at high altitude.
 
AELarisa:
An interesting study: https://docplayer.gr/189208-Slavic-elements-in-the-greek-idioms-of-south-albania.html
Kliknite za proširenje...
Κάμενα ‘remote and deserted place’, adj. καμενιώτης, -ισσα, -ικο‘promiscuous’ (Σπύρου2008: 367). See phr. Nαπαςστην Κάμενα! Είσαιγιατην Κάμενα, used in the idiom with the meanings of ‘Get lost! You should go to a monastery!’ which serve as curses in the area. There was a monastery of Kamena near Delvino (Κάμενα
< кàмъни, plural form of the Bul. кàмък‘stone’). See also БЕP II 188, кàмeнь.
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What the author did not now is common colloquial Serbian term for a prostitute - kamenjarka (probably in analogy with biblical stoning of whores.)
 
AELarisa:
In the Ottoman census of the year 1455 of the village where i come from there are last names like Servos, Slavos, Nenadas, Kraslavos, Rados, Vuikos, Velikas, Staikos, Tabizivos, Stoviravos and some others that is not clear what is their meaning. Also first names like Dobros, Milos, Vetikos etc.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BfYv4zS-t3EJ:https://pneumatikocentroagias.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/%CE%B7-%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B1-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%BF%CE%B8%CF%89%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B7-%CF%85%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B4/+&cd=1&hl=el&ct=clnk&gl=gr&client=firefox-b-d
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218 b widow Mila, widow Petrana, widow Vlasina and 219a Staiko brotherhood, and many more
 
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