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Ta varijanta ćirilice se od savremene razlikuje i više nego gotica/fraktur/Black letters od latinice.
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Nisam video pa ne mogu da komentarišem.
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Hteo sam da probam da vidim da li mogu da pogodim bez interneta. Nije Prespan već Preslav ili eventualno Pliska.
https://sh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preslavska_književna_škola
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Može da se nađe veoma lako: na prvi pogled postane jasno da je i ćirilica iz XIV i XV veka teško čitljiva, da ne pominjem najraniju preslavsku varijantu: ćirilica (posebno ovo što se sada naziva ćirilicom) je nastajala postupno, najveća ideja Preslavske škole je bila da se umesto (starije, tj oble) glagoljice čija slova previše liče jedno na drugo koza pisanje slovenskih tekstova koristi vizantijska varijanta grčkog alfabeta uz pozajmljivanje slova iz glagoljice potrebnih za pisanje karakteristični slovenskih glasova za koje u grčkom alfabetu nije bilo posebnih znakova.
Staroslovenska ćirilica (i sa modernim fontovima) i dalje ima karakteristična grčka slova potrebna za pisanje grčkog (npr hi, ksi, kao i digamma, iako još i tada za digamom nije bilo potrebe n u grčkim tekstovima).
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Verovatno na bugarski Preslav.
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@Manga Hilux
Pardon, na onogursku prestonicu bolgarskoh kanova, po velikobugarskoj mitologiji tu je izmišljena ćirilica. Jedino nikako da objasne za šta bi služila Onogurima s obzirom da su već imali svoje tursko orhonsko pismo za pisanje svog turskog jezika iz onogurske grupe.
Da li vidiš koliku ste katastrofu priredili slovenizovanjem Bugara? Trebalo je reći Ćirilu i Metodiju da ne šalju učenike na istok.
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Malo manje lupanja Gospodine sa tatarskom titulom, u srpskom ‘iskati’ znači tražiti, doduše već je arhaizam. Ili ste već možda i Simu Milutinovića-Sarajliju proglasili za nekakvog “Bugarina”?"Kolko te iskam ,bre" u ovom pesmom mozda je tebi zbunjivalo?U prevodom na srpski znaci "koliko te zelim,bre"
Pozdravljam ekipom ko je snimio Zonu Zamfirovu za hrabrosti zato sto je prikazao iako indirektno kakvi ljudi sa ziveli u Nisu i okolini u drugoj polovini 19 veka-Bugari
Па заиска саблю Халіову ,
Даде му € чета одъ Яньоша ,
Сабіомъ махну посѣче му главу,
На све седамъ изгубіо редомъ…
Pa daj pusti mi link da se mučim tražeći. Baš me zanima da vidim ta slova.
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Kakav crni Prespan, samo daješ ideje Bugarima da još jače kmeče oko Makedonije.
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Evo primera najstarije poznate ćirilice, sa vaze iz Preslava (931. god), inače, najstariji poznati sačuvani dokument je natpis iz Krepče (iz 921. godine) mada se tvrdi da je nastala još 893. Poređenja radi evo i jednog lista knjige iz XI veka (Izbornik Svjatoslava), a i ukratko o tome kako je nastala:
Unlike the Churchmen in Ohrid, Preslav scholars were much more dependent upon Greek models and quickly abandoned the Glagolitic scripts in favor of an adaptation of the Greek uncial to the needs of Slavic, which is now known as the Cyrillic alphabet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Cyrillic_alphabet
Па као етрурско писмо у односу на латиницу. Али види се лепо да је ћирилица.
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@Meliot
Kad smo već kod nastanka ćirilice evo i prvog slovenskog pisma, glagoljice - ⰃⰎⰀⰃⰑⰎⰉⰜⰀ, po ugledu na Bugare koji prisvajaju ćirilicu Hrvati proglašavaju glagoljicu za ekskluzivno hrvatsko pismo, jedino je istina da je ono što je preživelo od stare Hrvatske narodne crkve, tj Ninske biskupije daleko najupornije koristilo glagoljicu, jedini ostatak ćirilometodijske slovenske crkve koju Latini nisu uspeli da potpuno uguše skoro deset vekova u Hrvatskoj je bila slovenska misa, tzv. glagoljaška, koja se služila do sredine XIX veka .
The Glagolitic script (/ˌɡlæɡəˈlɪtɪk/,[2]ⰃⰎⰀⰃⰑⰎⰉⰜⰀ, glagolitsa) is the oldest known Slavic alphabet. It is generally agreed to have been created in the 9th century by Saint Cyril, a monk from Thessalonica. He and his brother Saint Methodius were sent by the Byzantine Emperor Michael III in 863 to Great Moravia to spread Christianity among the West Slavs in the area. The brothers decided to translate liturgical books into the contemporary Slavic language understandable to the general population (now known as Old Church Slavonic), and Cyril decided to invent a new script, Glagolitic, which he based on the local dialect of the Slavic tribes from around Thessalonica. After the deaths of Cyril and Methodius, the Glagolitic alphabet ceased to be used in Moravia for political or religious needs.
Primer oble i uglaste glagoljice:
Kad smo već kod nastanka ćirilice evo i prvog slovenskog pisma, glagoljice - ⰃⰎⰀⰃⰑⰎⰉⰜⰀ, po ugledu na Bugare koji prisvajaju ćirilicu Hrvati proglašavaju glagoljicu za ekskluzivno hrvatsko pismo, jedino je istina da je ono što je preživelo od stare Hrvatske narodne crkve, tj Ninske biskupije daleko najupornije koristilo glagoljicu, jedini ostatak ćirilometodijske slovenske crkve koju Latini nisu uspeli da potpuno uguše skoro deset vekova u Hrvatskoj je bila slovenska misa, tzv. glagoljaška, koja se služila do sredine XIX veka .
The Glagolitic script (/ˌɡlæɡəˈlɪtɪk/,[2]ⰃⰎⰀⰃⰑⰎⰉⰜⰀ, glagolitsa) is the oldest known Slavic alphabet. It is generally agreed to have been created in the 9th century by Saint Cyril, a monk from Thessalonica. He and his brother Saint Methodius were sent by the Byzantine Emperor Michael III in 863 to Great Moravia to spread Christianity among the West Slavs in the area. The brothers decided to translate liturgical books into the contemporary Slavic language understandable to the general population (now known as Old Church Slavonic), and Cyril decided to invent a new script, Glagolitic, which he based on the local dialect of the Slavic tribes from around Thessalonica. After the deaths of Cyril and Methodius, the Glagolitic alphabet ceased to be used in Moravia for political or religious needs.
Primer oble i uglaste glagoljice:
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Nastala je iz grčkog alfabeta: poređenjem velikih slova kao A (alfa), B (beta/vita), itd se lepo vidi poreklo ćirilice.
Inače i etrursko pismo i latinica i grčki alfabet i ćirilica imaju zajedničkog pretka: feničanski alfabet, sličnost nije slučajna.
Па њу су створили Ћирилио и Методије колико се сећам, а ћирилицу њихови ученици. А ћирилицу су назвалу у част свог учитеља Ћирила.
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O hristijanizaciji Bugarske, kao i posledičnoj slovenizaciji bugarskog vladajućeg sloja se može pročitati na sajtu Pravoslavne crkve u Americi - članak je ispod. Definitivno se može zapaziti kulturni uticaj makedonskih Slovena, predaka savremenih Makedonaca na Bugare, a ne obrnuto kako tvrdi sanstefanski sanovnik i bugarski nacionalisti. Sadašnje stanje u Makedoniji nije posledica nekakve “srbizacije Makedonije”, već veoma ranog makedonskog uticaja na Srbe - srpska redakcija starpslovenskog jezika, književni jezik Srbije Nemanjića, tj srpskoslovenski jezik je nastala prilagođavanjem ohridske redakcije staroslovenskog tako da postane razumljivija Srbima, a ne obrnuto. Iz srpskohrvatskog jezika Kraljevine SHS i posle nje dve Jugoslavije u makedonski jezik su ušli uglavnom internacionalizmi i samo po neka reč koja se inače koristila i u srpskom i u hrvatskom a za koju se u Makedoniji pre toga koristio neki turcizam - postojeće leksičke razlike između srpskog i makedonskog su isuviše velike da bi se govorilo o nekakvoj srbizaciji makedonskog jezika - inače neiscrpnoj temi bugarskih nacionalista. Reči koje se percipiraju kao “srbizmi” od Bugara i njima sklonih stanovnika Makedonije koji sebe smatraju Bugarima su veoma često potpuno različite od reči istog značenja koje se koriste u srpskom: ima celog niza reči koje se više ne koriste u srpskom jer su ih potisnuli kroatizmi, a koje su se iz starog jezika zadržale u savremenom makedonskom, pa pošto se u bugarskom ne koriste bugarski nacionalisti automatski tvrde da su to nekakvi “srbizmi”.
Kada se Sveti Kliment Ohridski proglašava za etničkog Bugarina na osnovu toga što je postao prvi bugarski episkop svesno se prelazi preko toga da bi sveti Ćirilo i Metodije kao prvi episkopi Moravske mogli i da se proglašavaju za Čehe. Naravno, Bugari prisvajaju i njih, računica je prosta: Svesno se kalkuliše sa tim da su Makedonci zahvaljujući teškoj istoriji pod raznim zavojevačima veoma malobrojni, a i u potpuno nepotrebnim zađevicama sa međusobno stalno posvađanim Srbima, kao i da protesti Čeha i Hrvata kao katolika sa ćirilometpdijskom tradicijom ipak neće bito dovoljno glasni.
Saints Clement, Bishop of Ochrid, Equal of the Apostles, Nahum, Savva, Gorazd and Angelar1 were Slavs, disciples of Saints Cyril and Methodios (May 11). At first they lived as ascetics in Moravia, where Saint Gorazd succeeded Saint Methodios as bishop. He was fluent in Slavonic, Greek and Latin. Saints Clement, Nahum, Angelar and Savva were priests.
The Enlighteners of the Slavs were opposed by German missionaries, who had the support of the Pope and the patronage of the Moravian Prince Svyatopolk. The struggle centered around the questions of the need for Divine Services in Slavonic, the Filioque, and Saturday fasting. Pope Stephen VI prohibited the use of Slavonic in church.
The proponents of the three-tongued heresy (who wanted to use only Hebrew, Greek, or Latin for Church Services), after setting aside the ancestral language of the Slavic peoples, brought the disciples of Saint Methodios to trial, including Saint Clement. They subjected them to fierce torture: dragging them through thorns, and holding them in prison for a long time, just as they had done with their Spiritual Father, Saint Methodios.
In 886, some of the prisoners were sold to slave-traders, and ended up in the Venice marketplace. The ambassador of the Byzantine Emperor Basil the Macedonian went to Venice, ransomed the Saints and took them to Constantinople. The older confessors were banished. It is not known where Saint Gorazd went, nor where Saint Savva found shelter. Saints Nahum and Angelar went to Bulgaria.
In 907 Moravia collapsed under the onslaught of the Magyars, and Moravian refugees by the same routes followed earlier by the Saints they had exiled.
The Bulgarians received the Slavonic confessors with respect and requested them to conduct Divine Services in the Slavonic language. The Bulgarian Prince Boris sought people such as the disciples of Saint Methodios, who labored for the enlightenment of his nation. Right away, the Saints began to study Slavonic books collected by the Bulgarian nobles.
Saint Angelar soon reposed, and Saint Clement was appointed to teach at Kutmichivitsa, in southwest Macedonia. In the Eastern Church, a teacher had to be a worthy person, someone known for his devout life, and who was able to speak well in public. Saint Clement was a teacher while he was still in Moravia. In Bulgaria, he worked as an instructor until 893. He organized a school at the princely court, which was highly regarded by the time of Simeon's reign. In southwest Macedonia he created separate schools for adults and children.
Saint Clement instructed the children in reading and in writing. The total number of his students was enormous. Those chosen and accepted for ordination amounted to 3500 men. In the year 893, Saint Clement became Bishop of Dremvitsa, or Velitsa, and Saint Nahum took his place.
Saint Clement was the first Bulgarian hierarch to serve, preach and write in the Slavonic language. To this end he systematically trained clergy from among the Slavic people. The holy bishop labored for the glory of God into his old age. When his strength failed, and he was unable to fulfill his responsibilities in the cathedral, he asked Tsar Simeon to let him retire.
The Tsar urged the Saint not to abandon his cathedral, and Saint Clement agreed to continue his episcopal service. After this he went to Okhrid, to a monastery he founded. There he continued his work of translation, including some important portions of the Pentecostarion.
Saint Clement became seriously ill and departed to the Lord in the year 916. His body was placed in a coffin, which he had made with his own hands, and was buried at Okhrid's Saint Panteleimon Monastery.
Saint Clement is considered the first Slavonic author. Not only did he continue the translation work begun by Saints Cyril and Methodios, he also left behind works of his own composition, the first samples of Slavonic spiritual literature.
Many of the lessons and sermons of Saint Clement were brought to Russia, where they were read and lovingly copied by devout Russian Christians.
The relics of Saints Gorazd and Angelar rest near Berat in Albania, and Saint Nahum’s relics are in the monastery which bears his name, near Lake Okhrid.
Saint Clement is also commemorated on November 22 (Greek usage), on November 25 (his Name Day), and on July 27 (the day of his blessed repose).
1 His name may come from the Greek word αναγορεύω (to proclaim).
https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/20...chrid-equal-of-the-apostles-bishop-of-greater
Kada se Sveti Kliment Ohridski proglašava za etničkog Bugarina na osnovu toga što je postao prvi bugarski episkop svesno se prelazi preko toga da bi sveti Ćirilo i Metodije kao prvi episkopi Moravske mogli i da se proglašavaju za Čehe. Naravno, Bugari prisvajaju i njih, računica je prosta: Svesno se kalkuliše sa tim da su Makedonci zahvaljujući teškoj istoriji pod raznim zavojevačima veoma malobrojni, a i u potpuno nepotrebnim zađevicama sa međusobno stalno posvađanim Srbima, kao i da protesti Čeha i Hrvata kao katolika sa ćirilometpdijskom tradicijom ipak neće bito dovoljno glasni.
Saints Clement, Bishop of Ochrid, Equal of the Apostles, Nahum, Savva, Gorazd and Angelar1 were Slavs, disciples of Saints Cyril and Methodios (May 11). At first they lived as ascetics in Moravia, where Saint Gorazd succeeded Saint Methodios as bishop. He was fluent in Slavonic, Greek and Latin. Saints Clement, Nahum, Angelar and Savva were priests.
The Enlighteners of the Slavs were opposed by German missionaries, who had the support of the Pope and the patronage of the Moravian Prince Svyatopolk. The struggle centered around the questions of the need for Divine Services in Slavonic, the Filioque, and Saturday fasting. Pope Stephen VI prohibited the use of Slavonic in church.
The proponents of the three-tongued heresy (who wanted to use only Hebrew, Greek, or Latin for Church Services), after setting aside the ancestral language of the Slavic peoples, brought the disciples of Saint Methodios to trial, including Saint Clement. They subjected them to fierce torture: dragging them through thorns, and holding them in prison for a long time, just as they had done with their Spiritual Father, Saint Methodios.
In 886, some of the prisoners were sold to slave-traders, and ended up in the Venice marketplace. The ambassador of the Byzantine Emperor Basil the Macedonian went to Venice, ransomed the Saints and took them to Constantinople. The older confessors were banished. It is not known where Saint Gorazd went, nor where Saint Savva found shelter. Saints Nahum and Angelar went to Bulgaria.
In 907 Moravia collapsed under the onslaught of the Magyars, and Moravian refugees by the same routes followed earlier by the Saints they had exiled.
The Bulgarians received the Slavonic confessors with respect and requested them to conduct Divine Services in the Slavonic language. The Bulgarian Prince Boris sought people such as the disciples of Saint Methodios, who labored for the enlightenment of his nation. Right away, the Saints began to study Slavonic books collected by the Bulgarian nobles.
Saint Angelar soon reposed, and Saint Clement was appointed to teach at Kutmichivitsa, in southwest Macedonia. In the Eastern Church, a teacher had to be a worthy person, someone known for his devout life, and who was able to speak well in public. Saint Clement was a teacher while he was still in Moravia. In Bulgaria, he worked as an instructor until 893. He organized a school at the princely court, which was highly regarded by the time of Simeon's reign. In southwest Macedonia he created separate schools for adults and children.
Saint Clement instructed the children in reading and in writing. The total number of his students was enormous. Those chosen and accepted for ordination amounted to 3500 men. In the year 893, Saint Clement became Bishop of Dremvitsa, or Velitsa, and Saint Nahum took his place.
Saint Clement was the first Bulgarian hierarch to serve, preach and write in the Slavonic language. To this end he systematically trained clergy from among the Slavic people. The holy bishop labored for the glory of God into his old age. When his strength failed, and he was unable to fulfill his responsibilities in the cathedral, he asked Tsar Simeon to let him retire.
The Tsar urged the Saint not to abandon his cathedral, and Saint Clement agreed to continue his episcopal service. After this he went to Okhrid, to a monastery he founded. There he continued his work of translation, including some important portions of the Pentecostarion.
Saint Clement became seriously ill and departed to the Lord in the year 916. His body was placed in a coffin, which he had made with his own hands, and was buried at Okhrid's Saint Panteleimon Monastery.
Saint Clement is considered the first Slavonic author. Not only did he continue the translation work begun by Saints Cyril and Methodios, he also left behind works of his own composition, the first samples of Slavonic spiritual literature.
Many of the lessons and sermons of Saint Clement were brought to Russia, where they were read and lovingly copied by devout Russian Christians.
The relics of Saints Gorazd and Angelar rest near Berat in Albania, and Saint Nahum’s relics are in the monastery which bears his name, near Lake Okhrid.
Saint Clement is also commemorated on November 22 (Greek usage), on November 25 (his Name Day), and on July 27 (the day of his blessed repose).
1 His name may come from the Greek word αναγορεύω (to proclaim).
https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/20...chrid-equal-of-the-apostles-bishop-of-greater
Boris T
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Аха, од нуле? Иначе, од уобичајеног грчког курзива.
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Мили Боже, чуда великога!
Ја ли грми, ја л' се земља тресе,
Ја л' удара море о брегове? ...
До л' анђели своје даре дијеле:
Ko su ti ti tvoji blaženi Šopi, da te pitam na moj prosti srpski, “KojI su BRE tija Šopi?” Što je toj Šop? Kakvo je? Šiptar li je? Turčin li je?
Recimo da se oblik toj upotrebljava i u ukrajinskom jeziku u značenju ‘to’, ili su i Ukrajinci neka vrsta Bugara?
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Po uzoru na kurziv, ali bez previše zalaženja u detalje.
Boris T
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Могућа википедија...
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najstariji pisani Hrvatski dokumen je na Ќирилици, nalazi se u jednom samostanu jednog Hrvatskog ostrva
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хан Ацо
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