Vlasi — balkanski fenomen

[AELarisa]

The addition of "almost" was merely an an act of homage, on my part, to the essential role of doubt in science. A polite nod, no more.

In reality, there really is no doubt. We can justly claim that we know, with a high degree of scientific certainty, that the Slavs in question had nothing to do with Croats. Thus, any mention of Croats within this context is entirely out of place.

Furthermore, based on all available evidence, we can also say that these Slavs had more in common with Serbs than any other population of South Slavs. It stands to reason that they should be referred to as Serbs, and that any further mention of Croats ought to be avoided.

I guess we are mostly related to Serbs.
But in some maps Serbs and Croats are shown as one race or one nation, so that is why I said both.

"Some of the slavic surnames you may find there are Garavelis (Garavelj), Kravaritis (Kravaric), Zouzoulas (Zuzul), Krikelis (Krkelj), Koutinas (Kutina), Pliatsikas or Pliatskas or Pliaskas (Pljackas/Pljaskas), Bikas, Koukouras, Petsias (pec), Tsaras (Car), Detsikas (Decko) and so on."

FYI - It might be incorrect to consider some of these surnames as pure Slavic names.

1) Koukouras --> Kukur(+as).

Latin cucurum: quiver.
https://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/cucurum

The same word, kukur, is found in Albanian - which V. Orel explains as, borrowed from Late Latin (cucurum), or MGk.

Page 201 below:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/117854777/Vladimir-Orel-Albanian-Etymological-Dictionary

2) Detsikas (Decko) --> Deçka.

This surname can be found in Albania.

Two examples:
i) The mayor of Dropull is Ahilea Deçka.
ii) Genti Deçka is an Albanian actor, born in Tirana.

3) Pliatsikas - Πλιάτσικας.

This surname can be found among the Vlachs of Veria (i.e. Γιάννης Πλιάτσικας - Giannis Pliatsikas).

URL:
http://www.vlahoi.gr/index.asp?RFRM=http://www.vlahoi.gr/ekdiloseis.htm

4) Petsias.

Similar surnames (such as Petsis, Petsios) can be found among the Vlachs of Iliochori (original name Добриново / Dobrinovo). This traditional Vlach village is located in Zagori Municipality, in Epirus Greece. (It's very likely, if not certain, that these Vlachs mixed with Slavs in the (distant) past.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliochori

URL:
https://iliochori.wordpress.com/2016/02/27/επίθετα-οικογενειών-που-ζούσαν-στο-ντ/

Here are some surnames from Iliochori:
Petsis
Petsios
Raikos
Belos
Betas
Balafas
Kukuravas or Kokoravas
Papandreu
Kostika
Milios
Danikos
Polizos
Tsetsias
Karatzias

Well, the Albanians and the Vlachs also have some people of Slavic origin. Albania was full of slavic population about 1000 years ago (before the Dacian tribes that formed the Albanian nation came to the region).
The fact that they also use some slavic names is the evidence of the presence of Slavs among them.
The eastern part of Thessaly is full of serbian toponyms and surnames, I don't think that the Albanians or the Vlachs gave them. There were very few Albanians in Thessaly and the Vlachs lived in other parts of Thessaly.
My guess is that they probably came during the Stefan Dusan era, but I have no references.

 

[Pravi Vlah]

"Some of the slavic surnames you may find there are Garavelis (Garavelj), Kravaritis (Kravaric), Zouzoulas (Zuzul), Krikelis (Krkelj), Koutinas (Kutina), Pliatsikas or Pliatskas or Pliaskas (Pljackas/Pljaskas), Bikas, Koukouras, Petsias (pec), Tsaras (Car), Detsikas (Decko) and so on."

FYI - It might be incorrect to consider some of these surnames as pure Slavic names.

1) Koukouras --> Kukur(+as).

Latin cucurum: quiver.
https://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/cucurum

The same word, kukur, is found in Albanian - which V. Orel explains as, borrowed from Late Latin (cucurum), or MGk.

Page 201 below:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/117854777/Vladimir-Orel-Albanian-Etymological-Dictionary

2) Detsikas (Decko) --> Deçka.

This surname can be found in Albania.

Two examples:
i) The mayor of Dropull is Ahilea Deçka.
ii) Genti Deçka is an Albanian actor, born in Tirana.

3) Pliatsikas - Πλιάτσικας.

This surname can be found among the Vlachs of Veria (i.e. Γιάννης Πλιάτσικας - Giannis Pliatsikas).

URL:
http://www.vlahoi.gr/index.asp?RFRM=http://www.vlahoi.gr/ekdiloseis.htm

4) Petsias.

Similar surnames (such as Petsis, Petsios) can be found among the Vlachs of Iliochori (original name Добриново / Dobrinovo). This traditional Vlach village is located in Zagori Municipality, in Epirus Greece. (It's very likely, if not certain, that these Vlachs mixed with Slavs in the (distant) past.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliochori

URL:
https://iliochori.wordpress.com/2016/02/27/επίθετα-οικογενειών-που-ζούσαν-στο-ντ/

Here are some surnames from Iliochori:
Petsis
Petsios
Raikos
Belos
Betas
Balafas
Kukuravas or Kokoravas
Papandreu
Kostika
Milios
Danikos
Polizos
Tsetsias
Karatzias

In addition, from the above list, the following don't strike me as evidently Slavic: Garavelis, Zouzoulas, Krikelis, Tsaras.

 

[AELarisa]

In addition, from the above list, the following don't strike me as evidently Slavic: Garavelis, Zouzoulas, Krikelis, Tsaras.

Then let's see some people that share those surnames (almost all -if not all- from Thessaly).

Garavelis:

Zouzoulas:

Tsaras:

The famous journalist (and relative of mine), Athina Krikeli:

And now, let's take a look at the Vlachs from Greece:

Well, honestly, I do not think that they are even close.
Maybe some Vlachs of Slavic origin could look like them.

 

[AELarisa]

The surname Pliatsikas was also said above that could be Vlach.

Let's see some people that share this surname...and not to mention that the surname is present basically in Thessaly and Macedonia.

Do they look like Vlachs?

 

[Pravi Vlah]

Do they look like Vlachs?

What does a Vlach supposed to look like?

Scientific studies indicate two important results: 1) in this part of Europe every ethnicity contains some ten major haplogroups so one cannot talk about genetic homogeneity and 2) the genetic distributions of neighboring ethnicities are similar.

 

[haeul]

I guess we are mostly related to Serbs.
But in some maps Serbs and Croats are shown as one race or one nation, so that is why I said both.

That's an unfortunate consequence of ideas that held sway in the late 19th and early 20th century. Until the process of manufacturing the artificial Yugoslav nation gathered pace, we had far greater historical and cultural links with the Greeks, Russians, Romanians, Bulgarians - perhaps even the Hungarians - than the Croats. Today, we share with them a portion of our more recent past, out language, which they adopted as their own, and that's about it.

Well, the Albanians and the Vlachs also have some people of Slavic origin. Albania was full of slavic population about 1000 years ago (before the Dacian tribes that formed the Albanian nation came to the region).
The fact that they also use some slavic names is the evidence of the presence of Slavs among them.
The eastern part of Thessaly is full of serbian toponyms and surnames, I don't think that the Albanians or the Vlachs gave them. There were very few Albanians in Thessaly and the Vlachs lived in other parts of Thessaly.
My guess is that they probably came during the Stefan Dusan era, but I have no references.

Precisely. By some estimates, more than half of all toponyms in Albania are of Slavic origin.

In absence of clear proof of a Vlach or Albanian connection, it's ridiculous to speak of the Greek toponyms of Slavic origin as anything but Slavic.

We can only theorise at this stage, but I suspect these Serbs may be refugees from the southern regions of Dusan's empire, who fled before the Ottomans. They couldn't go north, so they sought shelter with their fellow Christians in the south. They may have arrived in small groups, over the period of a few years or even decades.

 

[AELarisa]

What does a Vlach supposed to look like?

Scientific studies indicate two important results: 1) in this part of Europe every ethnicity contains some ten major haplogroups so one cannot talk about genetic homogeneity and 2) the genetic distributions of neighboring ethnicities are similar.

The Vlachs are basically a mixture of Dacian and Thracian tribes that lived in what is today southern Romania, northern Bulgaria and southern Serbia, that were completely romanized and later were mixed up with Slavs and maybe other tribes and moved to the west and to the south.

They have a very characteristic language, close to Romanian, very characteristic costumes and traditions. They do not look like Slavs (unless they actually have some kind of slavic origin). I have met people that are truly Vlachs and I know who they are.

You can watch this video with some Vlachs of Greece speaking their language and wearing their traditional clothes. Maybe you can understand what they say, I don't understand a single word. Do you think they look like Slavs? Well, I don't. And I don't know who told you that everyone in Thessaly is somehow connected to Vlachs, but this is far away from reality.

That's an unfortunate consequence of ideas that held sway in the late 19th and early 20th century. Until the process of manufacturing the artificial Yugoslav nation gathered pace, we had far greater historical and cultural links with the Greeks, Russians, Romanians, Bulgarians - perhaps even the Hungarians - than the Croats. Today, we share with them a portion of our more recent past, out language, which they adopted as their own, and that's about it.


Precisely. By some estimates, more than half of all toponyms in Albania are of Slavic origin.

In absence of clear proof of a Vlach or Albanian connection, it's ridiculous to speak of the Greek toponyms of Slavic origin as anything but Slavic.

We can only theorise at this stage, but I suspect these Serbs may be refugees from the southern regions of Dusan's empire, who fled before the Ottomans. They couldn't go north, so they sought shelter with their fellow Christians in the south. They may have arrived in small groups, over the period of a few years or even decades.

I see that some Vlachs (from Serbia?) try to say all the time that Vlachs are everywhere in Greece and that every slavic toponym or surname must be somehow coming from Vlachs.
The funny thing here is that even the Vlachs of Greece do not consider themselves as something different from Greek. I can say that most fanatic nationalists in Greece are Vlachs. Not to mention that the Vlachs of Greece have no knowledge of slavic dialects.

 

[haeul]

I see that some Vlachs (from Serbia?) try to say all the time that Vlachs are everywhere in Greece and that every slavic toponym or surname must be somehow coming from Vlachs.
The funny thing here is that even the Vlachs of Greece do not consider themselves as something different from Greek. I can say that most fanatic nationalists in Greece are Vlachs. Not to mention that the Vlachs of Greece have no knowledge of slavic dialects.

I think it's mostly the Romanian nationalists who are making such claims. They essentially view all Romance-speakers on our peninsula, bar those of the east coast of the Adriatic, which are generally considered 'Italian', as part of their nation.

The reality is that the various populations that have been referred to as Vlachs throughout the ages have little in common beyond the fact that they speak Romance languages/dialects, and in some cases, not even that, given numerous historical examples of the use of this term to denote nomadic and semi-nomadic pastoral populations in general - i.e., not necessarily a particular ethnic group - or even specifically the Serbs. Romanian nationalists frequently ignore these facts and see their kin where there is none to be found.

 

[Carlin15]

1) Whether one wants to accept it or not, some of the pictures of people shared in previous posts can be found among the Vlachs and Albanians/Arvanites, as well as in today's Albania (but also in Macedonia).

2) In addition to this, whether people like it or not, a significant portion of modern residents of Thessaly are descendants of medieval Vlach-speakers who inhabited this region and formed the bulk of the population not just of Thessaly but adjacent regions as well. The testimonies are too numerous to list and repeat. Historians or others who'd like to 'minimize' their numbers - well - such arguments no longer rest on scientific or impartial criteria and analysis. Even J. Cvijic wrote that in medieval times Vlachs formed the largest population group and represented the majority in Thessaly, which eventually (Self-)Hellenized.

3) Of course, there were other elements that settled and lived in Thessaly and elsewhere, such as the Arvanites or Slavs - more accurately the Serbs. It should be added that some Western European Catholics were established in many Greek regions - one region being the coast of Eastern Thessaly.

"The Vlachs filled Thessaly and for this reason it was called "Great Vlachia". Also Vlachs were in Roumeli, Euboia and the Peloponnese. Arvanites who settled in Attica, Corinthia, Epirus, Mani, in Thessaly and the islands were not few, and the 'Franks' (Italians, Catalans, Venetians, etc.) from the Crusades were established in many Greek regions (the coasts of Eastern Thessaly, Ionian Islands, Attica, Roumeli, Aegean islands etc.)."

From URL:
https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bk...sy-ab..0.0.0....0.9SNvkwM0iQk&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0

4) Moving on from Thessaly to the neighbouring region of Evrytania. Apparently the village of Agios Akakios (formerly known as Golitsa), an important settlement which according to the local historians "is said to be founded in the 14th century by Vlach and Serbian nobles." Other villages of the same region such as Achladia (Amurlar), Leontari (Aslanar), Anthohori (also known by the blatant Vlach name Floresi) etc. where the Vlach presence -even more spectacularly- is attested up to this day are also utterly neglected as if they do not exist at all.

Another area of Greece where Vlachs still linger and which again is outside Thede Kahl's reach -if not interest- is Euboea. A long and lanky island which almost touches the mainland at Chalkis, Euboea, known in mediaeval times as Negroponte is described by the Encyclopaedia Britannica (15th edition, 1995, vol. 4, pag. 587) as having a Vlach element: ".. the population of the island is varied (..) there is a Vlach element in the hill country".

URL:
http://www.network54.com/Search/vie...The+Vanishing+Tribes?term=Discovery&page=6666

Here is a little surprise I haven't shared before. It's a Greek source and author - it can hardly be considered as any sort of propaganda.

 

[AELarisa]

Thessaly was not an empty place when the Vlachs came. There were many Slavs already settled there for centuries.
So, the "Great Vlachia" was a state of all people living in Thessaly, not only Vlachs. They did not want to be under Byzantine rule and those people some centuries later accepted the rule of Stefan Dusan.

In the eastern part of Thessaly there was a boom of slavic toponyms a few centuries ago, that of course cannot be due to the romance language speakers of Thessaly.
The Vlachs of Thessaly do not speak any slavic. They maybe have borrowed a few words, just as the greek language has, but these words are not enough to explain the many and very detailed slavic toponyms of the territory.

As about the Arvanites, they moved to the south. Very few settled in Thessaly and of course they also cannot be the reason for the slavic toponyms.

Evrytania is well known for its Vlach population. Also Epirus and especially Pindos mountains. The part of Thessaly inhabited by Vlachs is shown in the maps I posted.

 

[Mrkalj]

1) Whether one wants to accept it or not, some of the pictures of people shared in previous posts can be found among the Vlachs and Albanians/Arvanites, as well as in today's Albania (but also in Macedonia).

2) In addition to this, whether people like it or not, a significant portion of modern residents of Thessaly are descendants of medieval Vlach-speakers who inhabited this region and formed the bulk of the population not just of Thessaly but adjacent regions as well. The testimonies are too numerous to list and repeat. Historians or others who'd like to 'minimize' their numbers - well - such arguments no longer rest on scientific or impartial criteria and analysis. Even J. Cvijic wrote that in medieval times Vlachs formed the largest population group and represented the majority in Thessaly, which eventually (Self-)Hellenized.

3) Of course, there were other elements that settled and lived in Thessaly and elsewhere, such as the Arvanites or Slavs - more accurately the Serbs. It should be added that some Western European Catholics were established in many Greek regions - one region being the coast of Eastern Thessaly.

"The Vlachs filled Thessaly and for this reason it was called "Great Vlachia". Also Vlachs were in Roumeli, Euboia and the Peloponnese. Arvanites who settled in Attica, Corinthia, Epirus, Mani, in Thessaly and the islands were not few, and the 'Franks' (Italians, Catalans, Venetians, etc.) from the Crusades were established in many Greek regions (the coasts of Eastern Thessaly, Ionian Islands, Attica, Roumeli, Aegean islands etc.)."

From URL:
https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bk...sy-ab..0.0.0....0.9SNvkwM0iQk&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0

4) Moving on from Thessaly to the neighbouring region of Evrytania. Apparently the village of Agios Akakios (formerly known as Golitsa), an important settlement which according to the local historians "is said to be founded in the 14th century by Vlach and Serbian nobles." Other villages of the same region such as Achladia (Amurlar), Leontari (Aslanar), Anthohori (also known by the blatant Vlach name Floresi) etc. where the Vlach presence -even more spectacularly- is attested up to this day are also utterly neglected as if they do not exist at all.

Another area of Greece where Vlachs still linger and which again is outside Thede Kahl's reach -if not interest- is Euboea. A long and lanky island which almost touches the mainland at Chalkis, Euboea, known in mediaeval times as Negroponte is described by the Encyclopaedia Britannica (15th edition, 1995, vol. 4, pag. 587) as having a Vlach element: ".. the population of the island is varied (..) there is a Vlach element in the hill country".

URL:
http://www.network54.com/Search/vie...The+Vanishing+Tribes?term=Discovery&page=6666

Here is a little surprise I haven't shared before. It's a Greek source and author - it can hardly be considered as any sort of propaganda.

IMO

It is only logical the Balkan Romance tribes formed after long period of migrations from 2nd through 6th century caused by German barbaric wars and invasion of Apennine Peninsula. The concentration of Roman Apennine refugees was in Adriatic coastal cities, Aegean coastal cities, and the largest population formed in the region of central Albania inland. The population in Aegean cities formed today's Aromanians who are commonly known as higher class of Greek merchants that began to spred over hills of Greece and Macedonia only during Otoman times to avoid islamization. Migration process goes also for the Vlach population of central Albania. They bagan to migrate to Dacia as of 14th century.

The Apennine German-Roman mixture, civilized Germans (so called "Goths"), continued to invade all Mediterranean coasts (only coastal cities) of the Balkan Peninsula and that is where their influence can be observed. The Goths never made it to Balkan midland.

 

[Carlin15]

1) Poreklo Cara Juliana:

"... and those who dwell between the Thracians and the Paeonians, I mean the Mysians on the very banks of the Danube, from whom my own family is derived, a stock wholly boorish, austere, awkward, without charm and abiding immovably by its decisions; all of which qualities are proofs of terrible boorishness."

Delphi Complete Works of Julian (Illustrated)
By Julian the Apostate

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=Qc...he Danube, from whom my own family is&f=false

2) O City of Byzantium: Annals of Niketas Choniatēs - Page 204

"... provoking the barbarians who lived in the vicinity of Mount Haimos, formerly called Mysians and now named Vlachs"

Nicetas Choniates

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=O8...page&q=Vlachs formerly called Mysians&f=false



3) Ephraim calls Haimos «Βλάχων παροικίαν»

URLs:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=b......0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.am3GFul5xs0

https://books.google.ca/books?id=HS...=onepage&q=Ephraim «Βλάχων παροικίαν»&f=false

"Αγχίαλον ουν παραμείψας την πόλιν είσεισιν Αίμον την Βλάχων παροικίαν ... "

 

[Pravi Vlah]

The Vlachs are basically a mixture of Dacian and Thracian tribes that lived in what is today southern Romania, northern Bulgaria and southern Serbia, that were completely romanized and later were mixed up with Slavs and maybe other tribes and moved to the west and to the south.

Let me ask you something: are the Romanians Vlachs?

 

[Mrkalj]

Let me ask you something: are the Romanians Vlachs?

Let me ask you something: first there were Romanians, then amoebae?

 

[AELarisa]

Let me ask you something: are the Romanians Vlachs?

A part of them yes.

 

[haeul]

Let me ask you something: are the Romanians Vlachs?

Let me as you something:

1. Are the Romanians exclusively Vlachs?
2. Are all Vlachs Romaninans?

 

[Pravi Vlah]

A part of them yes.

No, that's wrong. The term Vlach is an exonym and it corresponds to the endonym Român (or Rumân). This is exactly the way the exonym Greek corresponds to the endonym Hellene. Or the way the exonym German corresponds to the endonym Deutsche. In the present country of Romania there are three major regions: Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania. All three are inhabited by Vlachs, i.e., Romanians. The name Wallachia is derived from the exonym Vlach, while Moldavia and Transylvania (= Land beyond the Forest) are geographic, like Thessaly or Peloponnesse.

The Romanians are not the only Vlachs. There are also the Armâns and the Rămărs. The Armâns or Aromuns live in Greece, Albania, Macedonia. The Rămărs live in Istria. Their second exonym is Ćići.

These three endonyms of the Vlachs -- Român, Armân and Rămăr -- are all variants of Romanus, i.e., Roman. It's a name that goes back to the Roman empire.

As to genetics -- we are now speaking of perhaps some 30 million people -- they are not homogeneous. Like the other Balkan nations, there are about 10 major haplogroups of the Y-DNA of the Vlachs. You cannot, by physical appearance alone reliably distinguish a Vlach from a Greek, nor from a Bulgarian, nor Serbian, nor Albanian, etc.

- - - - - - - - - -

Let me ask you something: first there were Romanians, then amoebae?

You mean like this excerpt from the Rig Veda?

 

[Krishna]

No, that's wrong. The term Vlach is an exonym and it corresponds to the endonym Român (or Rumân). This is exactly the way the exonym Greek corresponds to the endonym Hellene. Or the way the exonym German corresponds to the endonym Deutsche. In the present country of Romania there are three major regions: Wallachia, Moldavia and Transylvania. All three are inhabited by Vlachs, i.e., Romanians. The name Wallachia is derived from the exonym Vlach, while Moldavia and Transylvania (= Land beyond the Forest) are geographic, like Thessaly or Peloponnesse.

The Romanians are not the only Vlachs. There are also the Armâns and the Rămărs. The Armâns or Aromuns live in Greece, Albania, Macedonia. The Rămărs live in Istria. Their second exonym is Ćići.

These three endonyms of the Vlachs -- Român, Armân and Rămăr -- are all variants of Romanus, i.e., Roman. It's a name that goes back to the Roman empire.

As to genetics -- we are now speaking of perhaps some 30 million people -- they are not homogeneous. Like the other Balkan nations, there are about 10 major haplogroups of the Y-DNA of the Vlachs. You cannot, by physical appearance alone reliably distinguish a Vlach from a Greek, nor from a Bulgarian, nor Serbian, nor Albanian, etc.

- - - - - - - - - -

You mean like this excerpt from the Rig Veda?

Aromanians are much purest Vlachs than Romanians, because Romanians are heavy Slavic infuenced.
Latin speaking ancestors of Romanian once were the same people as Aromanians. Latin speaking ancestors of Romanians migrated from southern Balkans, western Bulgaria and southeastern Serbia to modern southern Romania (Wallachian plain) from 12th to 14th century. Until 12th century there is no Vlachs (Latin speakers) in modern Romania.
When Vlachs came to modern southern Romania in late middle age they assimilated a lot of Slavs which were majority of population in whole modern Romania.
Because of that assimilation (vlachization) of Slavs Vlacho-Romanian language was more Slavic than Latin until mid of 19th century, even today there is a around 20% Slavic words in Romanian language.
In mid 19th century Vlach intellectuals (they were Greek-Catholics) from Transylvania and king Karol I made the latinization of Vlacho-Romanian language.
Except Slavs Vlachs also assimilated Cumans, Pechenegs and Tatars in Wallachian plain.

The strongest haplogroups among Aromanians are I2a1b 28% and R1a 18% and both are Slavic, which means that Romanians have 46% Slavic Y DNA.
Aromanian have 27% Slavic Y DNA (I2a1b 17% and R1a 10%).

Even today unlike latinization in the last 150 years there is a hundreds of Slavic toponyms in Romania.


Many Vlacho-Romanian rulers from the middle age had Slavic names such as:

- Vlad the Impaler (Vlad is a short form of Slavic names Vladimir and Vladislav) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad

- Bogdan III the One-Eyed (Bogdan is name orf Slavic origin, it's very popular among Serbs, Ukrainians and Russians) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_III_the_One-Eyed

- Radu I of Wallachia (Rad means work on many Slavic languages, name Rade is very popular among Serbs and name Radek is very popular among Czechs) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radu_I_of_Wallachia

- Mircea I of Wallachia (name Mircea derivated from Slavic word Mir which means peace, Slavic names Miroslav and Mirko also derivated from Mir) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mircea_I_of_Wallachia

DEAL WITH IT!!!

 

[Krishna]

Let me as you something:

1. Are the Romanians exclusively Vlachs?
2. Are all Vlachs Romaninans?

Romanians are not only Vlachs, there is a Vlachs in southern Balkans - in Macodonia, northern Greece and southern Albania (Aromanians, Megleno-Vlachs and Kucovlachs).

President of Albania Edi Rama and prime minister of Greece Alexis Tsipras are of Vlach origin.

 

[Pravi Vlah]

Aromanians are much purest Vlachs than Romanians, because Romanians are heavy Slavic infuenced.

The question is not whether the Vlachs are partly Slav. That's a given. The real issue on this forum is that the Serbs are slavicized Vlachs.


Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

 

[Krishna]

The question is not whether the Vlachs are partly Slav. That's a given. The real issue on this forum is that the Serbs are slavicized Vlachs

Says guy who claims that he is of Cuman origin, if Serbs are slavized Vlachs than Romanians are vlachized Cumans and Pechenegs.

 

[Pravi Vlah]

Says guy who claims that he is of Cuman origin, if Serbs are slavized Vlachs than Romanians are vlachized Cumans and Pechenegs.

И шта с тим?

 

[Krishna]

И шта с тим?

Па ништа, не знам само како можеш бити истовремено и "Прави Влах" и Куман...?

Ово што си рекао Србе је лупетање, генетика је рекла дугачије.

 

[haeul]

Можемо ли да се вратимо теми? Великорумунску пропаганду шири другде.

Romanians are not only Vlachs

I'm well aware of that. I was merely trying to get an honest response from the gentleman to whom the questions were addressed

 

[Mrkalj]

Можемо ли да се вратимо теми? Великорумунску пропаганду шири другде.


I'm well aware of that. I was merely trying to get an honest response from the gentleman to whom the questions were addressed

https://thehiddenbay.info/torrent/19429843/The_League_Of_Gentlemen_-_Complete_(Season_1__2__3__4[new_2017]_

Viva... Vivaaa.. Ројстон Вејзиииии....