Pumpaj Dinstanović
Zaslužan član
- Poruka
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@Карлос Шакал malčice da pojasnim šta se ovde meni sve čini (a može da pogleda i @Mrkalj vidim da ga je ovo pitanje zainteresovalo).
Pre svega, treba istaći da su u ranom srednjem veku Gepidi posmatrani kao podgrana Gota. Jordanes kaže, u 94-100. glavi o poreklu Gota; pored relevantnih podataka za Gepide, Jordanes još nešto donosi o kralju Ostrogoti:
Prevod:
Dakle, Jordanes donosi tradiciju o tome kako su Gepidi zaostali Goti. Od onih što su krenuli na početku seobe iz Skandinavije, najsporiji među njima (po reči gepanta) navodno prozvani tako, Gepidima. Na dosta mesta se insistira da su Gepidi vrlo bliski rođaci Gota. Vrlo lenji ljudi (nisam izabrao paralelu sa Crnogorcima sasvim slučajno
). Docnije pominje prvog imenom poznatog gepidskog kralja, Fastidu, koji je bio dosta ljubomoran, pa je prvo totalno potukao jedno drugo germansko pleme, Burgunđane, i onda se okrenuo i protiv samih Gota; Gota koje je u to vreme, objedinjene, pre razdvajanja na Ostrogote i Vizigote, vladao taj tzv. kralj Ostrogota. Negde, na području severne Transilvanije, Ostrogota je naneo teške poraze Gepidima i u sramoti Fastida se povukao.
Ovaj priča otkriva kroz jedan legendarni prikaz, stavljajući i u politički kontekst sukoba i otvorenog rata, koji se završio nepovoljno, celi proces secesije Gepida od Gota. Ostrogotu pominje još nešto ranije, u gl. 91 i 92:
Jordanes je smestio kralja Ostrogotu kao vladara Gota koji upadaju preko Dunava i haraju Meziju i Trakiju za vreme rimskog cara Filipa Arapina, negde pri kraju njegove vlasti (244-249). Prodrli su sve do Markianopolja u nebrojenom mnoštvu i odustali od opsade i vratili se kućama tek kad su dobili veliki otkup. Goti su bili u savezu sa Peukinima (Bastarnima), Tajfalima i sa jednim od plemena Vandala (Hazdinzima).
Istorija međunarodnih odnosa Ostrogota i Gepida je bogata. Kada je car Zenon napujdao Teodorika 488. da sa Ostrogotima kren na Italiju kako bi srušio Odoakra, vidimo tragove Jordanesove tradicije o zametku mržnje između Gepida i (ostalih?) Gota i tu je došlo do pravog rata; u bici kod Sirmijuma 489. godine Teodorik je naneo poraz gepidskom kralju Traustili. Traustili sin Trasarik je, izgleda, nastavio da stoluje u Sirmiju ali barem nominalno prihvatio vlast Teodorika, da bi se 504. godine desila neka pobuna; moža su Gepidi pokušali da se u potpunosti otrgnu i Teodorik je poslao jednu kaznenu ekspediciju koja ih je potpuno isterala iz Srema bez nekih poteškoća, a tuda negde se gepidski kraljević Mund priključio Ostrogotima. Kada je Teorodik postao regent mladog vizigotskog kralja, krenuo je oko 508. godine u njegovu zaštitu protiv Hlodovehovih Franaka i tada je u svojoj vojsci imao i neke gepidske najamnike koje je dovukao u velikom broju u severnu Italiju.
Pre svega, treba istaći da su u ranom srednjem veku Gepidi posmatrani kao podgrana Gota. Jordanes kaže, u 94-100. glavi o poreklu Gota; pored relevantnih podataka za Gepide, Jordanes još nešto donosi o kralju Ostrogoti:
94 Abhinc ergo, ut dicebamus, post longam obsidionem accepto praemio ditatus Geta recessit ad propria. Quem cernens Gepidarum natio subito ubique vincentem praedisque ditatum, invidia ductus arma in parentibus movit. Quomodo vero Getae Gepidasque sint parentes si quaeris, paucis absolvam. Meminisse debes me in initio de Scandzae insulae gremio Gothos dixisse egressos cum Berich rege suo, tribus tantum navibus vectos ad ripam Oceani citerioris, id est Gothiscandza.
95 Quarum trium una navis, ut adsolet, tardior nancta nomen genti fertur dedisse; nam lingua eorum pigra gepanta dicitur. Hinc factum est, ut paulatim et corruptae nomen eis ex convicio nasceretur Gepidas. Nam sine dubio ex Gothorum prosapie et hi trahent originem; sed quia, ut dixi, gepanta pigrum aliquid tardumque designat, pro gratuito convicio Gepidarum nomen exortum est, quod nec ipsud credo falsissimum: sunt etenim tardioris ingenii et graviores corporum velocitate.
96 Hi ergo Gepidae tacti invidia, dum Spesis provincia commanerent in insulam Visclae amnis vadibus circumactam, quam patrio sermone dicebant Gepedoios. Nunc eam, ut fertur, insulam gens Vividaria incolit ipsis ad meliores terras meantibus. Qui Vividarii ex diversis nationibus ac si in unum asylum collecti sunt et gentem fecisse noscantur.
97 Ergo, ut dicebamus, Gepidarum rex Fastida quietam gentem excitans patrios fines per arma dilatavit. Nam Burgundzones pene usque ad internicionem delevit aliasque nonnullas gentes perdomuit. Gothos quoque male provocans consanguinitatis foedus prius inportuna concertatione violavit superba admodum elatione iactatus, crescenti populo dum terras coepit addere, incolas patrios reddidit rariores.
98 Is ergo missis legatis ad Ostrogotham, cuius adhuc imperio tam Ostrogothae quam Vesegothae, id est utrique eiusdem gentes populi, subiacebant, inclusum se montium quaeritans asperitate silvarumque densitate constrictum, unum poscens e duobus, ut aut bellum sibi aut locorum suorum spatia praepararet.
99 Tunc Ostrogotha rex Gothorum ut erat solidi animi, respondit legatis bellum se quidem talem horrere durumque fore et omnino scelestum armis confligere cum propinquis, loca vero non cedere. Quid multa? Gepidas in bella inruunt, contra quos, ne minor iudicaretur, movit et Ostrogotha procinctum, conveniuntque ad oppidum Galtis, iuxta quod currit fluvius Auha, ibique magna partium virtute certatum est, quippe quos in se et armorum et pugnandi similitudo commoverat; sed causa melior vivacitasque ingenii iubit Gothos.
100 Inclinata denique parte Gepidarum proelium nox diremit. Tunc relicta suorum strage Fastida rex Gepidarum properavit ad patriam, tam pudendis obprobriis humiliatus, quam fuerat elationis erectus. Redeunt victores Gothi Gepidarum discessione contenti, suaque in patria feliciter in pace versantur, usque dum eorum praevius existeret Ostrogotha.
95 Quarum trium una navis, ut adsolet, tardior nancta nomen genti fertur dedisse; nam lingua eorum pigra gepanta dicitur. Hinc factum est, ut paulatim et corruptae nomen eis ex convicio nasceretur Gepidas. Nam sine dubio ex Gothorum prosapie et hi trahent originem; sed quia, ut dixi, gepanta pigrum aliquid tardumque designat, pro gratuito convicio Gepidarum nomen exortum est, quod nec ipsud credo falsissimum: sunt etenim tardioris ingenii et graviores corporum velocitate.
96 Hi ergo Gepidae tacti invidia, dum Spesis provincia commanerent in insulam Visclae amnis vadibus circumactam, quam patrio sermone dicebant Gepedoios. Nunc eam, ut fertur, insulam gens Vividaria incolit ipsis ad meliores terras meantibus. Qui Vividarii ex diversis nationibus ac si in unum asylum collecti sunt et gentem fecisse noscantur.
97 Ergo, ut dicebamus, Gepidarum rex Fastida quietam gentem excitans patrios fines per arma dilatavit. Nam Burgundzones pene usque ad internicionem delevit aliasque nonnullas gentes perdomuit. Gothos quoque male provocans consanguinitatis foedus prius inportuna concertatione violavit superba admodum elatione iactatus, crescenti populo dum terras coepit addere, incolas patrios reddidit rariores.
98 Is ergo missis legatis ad Ostrogotham, cuius adhuc imperio tam Ostrogothae quam Vesegothae, id est utrique eiusdem gentes populi, subiacebant, inclusum se montium quaeritans asperitate silvarumque densitate constrictum, unum poscens e duobus, ut aut bellum sibi aut locorum suorum spatia praepararet.
99 Tunc Ostrogotha rex Gothorum ut erat solidi animi, respondit legatis bellum se quidem talem horrere durumque fore et omnino scelestum armis confligere cum propinquis, loca vero non cedere. Quid multa? Gepidas in bella inruunt, contra quos, ne minor iudicaretur, movit et Ostrogotha procinctum, conveniuntque ad oppidum Galtis, iuxta quod currit fluvius Auha, ibique magna partium virtute certatum est, quippe quos in se et armorum et pugnandi similitudo commoverat; sed causa melior vivacitasque ingenii iubit Gothos.
100 Inclinata denique parte Gepidarum proelium nox diremit. Tunc relicta suorum strage Fastida rex Gepidarum properavit ad patriam, tam pudendis obprobriis humiliatus, quam fuerat elationis erectus. Redeunt victores Gothi Gepidarum discessione contenti, suaque in patria feliciter in pace versantur, usque dum eorum praevius existeret Ostrogotha.
Prevod:
(94) From this city, then, as we were saying, the Getae returned after a long siege to their own land, enriched by the ransom they had received. Now the race of the Gepidae was moved with envy when they saw them laden with booty and so suddenly victorious everywhere, and made war on their kinsmen. Should you ask how the Getae and Gepidae are kinsmen, I can tell you in a few words. You surely remember that in the beginning I said the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean, namely to Gothiscandza.
(95) One of these three ships proved to be slower than the others, as is usually the case, and thus is said to have given the tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because, as I have said, gepanta means something slow and stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong, for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for quick movement of their bodies.
(96) These Gepidae were then smitten by envy while they dwelt in the province of Spesis on an island surrounded by the shallow waters of the Vistula. This island they called, in the speech of their fathers, Gepedoios; but it is now inhabited by the race of the Vividarii, since the Gepidae themselves have moved to better lands. The Vividarii are gathered from various races into this one asylum, if I may call it so, and thus they form a nation.
(97) So then, as we were saying, Fastida, king of the Gepidae, stirred up his quiet people to enlarge their boundaries by war. He overwhelmed the Burgundians, almost annihilating them, and conquered a number of other races also. He unjustly provoked the Goths, being the first to break the bonds of kinship by unseemly strife. He was greatly puffed up with vain glory, but in seeking to acquire new lands for his growing nation, he only reduced the numbers of his own countrymen.
(98) For he sent ambassadors to Ostrogotha, to whose rule Ostrogoths and Visigoths alike, that is, the two peoples of the same tribe, were still subject. Complaining that he was hemmed in by rugged mountains and dense forests, he demanded one of two things,--that Ostrogotha should either prepare for war or give up part of his lands to them.
(99) Then Ostrogotha, king of the Goths, who was a man of firm mind, answered the ambassadors that he did indeed dread such a war and that it would be a grievous and infamous thing to join battle with their kin,--but he would not give up his lands. And why say more? The Gepidae hastened to take arms and Ostrogotha likewise moved his forces against them, lest he should seem a coward. They met at the town of Galtis, near which the river Auha flows, and there both sides fought with great valor; indeed the similarity of their arms and of their manner of fighting turned them against their own men. But the better cause and their natural alertness aided the Goths.
(100) Finally night put an end to the battle as a part of the Gepidae were giving way. Then Fastida, king of the Gepidae, left the field of slaughter and hastened to his own land, as much humiliated with shame and disgrace as formerly he had been elated with pride. The Goths returned victorious, content with the retreat of the Gepidae, and dwelt in peace and happiness in their own land so long as Ostrogotha was their leader.
(95) One of these three ships proved to be slower than the others, as is usually the case, and thus is said to have given the tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because, as I have said, gepanta means something slow and stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong, for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for quick movement of their bodies.
(96) These Gepidae were then smitten by envy while they dwelt in the province of Spesis on an island surrounded by the shallow waters of the Vistula. This island they called, in the speech of their fathers, Gepedoios; but it is now inhabited by the race of the Vividarii, since the Gepidae themselves have moved to better lands. The Vividarii are gathered from various races into this one asylum, if I may call it so, and thus they form a nation.
(97) So then, as we were saying, Fastida, king of the Gepidae, stirred up his quiet people to enlarge their boundaries by war. He overwhelmed the Burgundians, almost annihilating them, and conquered a number of other races also. He unjustly provoked the Goths, being the first to break the bonds of kinship by unseemly strife. He was greatly puffed up with vain glory, but in seeking to acquire new lands for his growing nation, he only reduced the numbers of his own countrymen.
(98) For he sent ambassadors to Ostrogotha, to whose rule Ostrogoths and Visigoths alike, that is, the two peoples of the same tribe, were still subject. Complaining that he was hemmed in by rugged mountains and dense forests, he demanded one of two things,--that Ostrogotha should either prepare for war or give up part of his lands to them.
(99) Then Ostrogotha, king of the Goths, who was a man of firm mind, answered the ambassadors that he did indeed dread such a war and that it would be a grievous and infamous thing to join battle with their kin,--but he would not give up his lands. And why say more? The Gepidae hastened to take arms and Ostrogotha likewise moved his forces against them, lest he should seem a coward. They met at the town of Galtis, near which the river Auha flows, and there both sides fought with great valor; indeed the similarity of their arms and of their manner of fighting turned them against their own men. But the better cause and their natural alertness aided the Goths.
(100) Finally night put an end to the battle as a part of the Gepidae were giving way. Then Fastida, king of the Gepidae, left the field of slaughter and hastened to his own land, as much humiliated with shame and disgrace as formerly he had been elated with pride. The Goths returned victorious, content with the retreat of the Gepidae, and dwelt in peace and happiness in their own land so long as Ostrogotha was their leader.
Dakle, Jordanes donosi tradiciju o tome kako su Gepidi zaostali Goti. Od onih što su krenuli na početku seobe iz Skandinavije, najsporiji među njima (po reči gepanta) navodno prozvani tako, Gepidima. Na dosta mesta se insistira da su Gepidi vrlo bliski rođaci Gota. Vrlo lenji ljudi (nisam izabrao paralelu sa Crnogorcima sasvim slučajno
). Docnije pominje prvog imenom poznatog gepidskog kralja, Fastidu, koji je bio dosta ljubomoran, pa je prvo totalno potukao jedno drugo germansko pleme, Burgunđane, i onda se okrenuo i protiv samih Gota; Gota koje je u to vreme, objedinjene, pre razdvajanja na Ostrogote i Vizigote, vladao taj tzv. kralj Ostrogota. Negde, na području severne Transilvanije, Ostrogota je naneo teške poraze Gepidima i u sramoti Fastida se povukao.Ovaj priča otkriva kroz jedan legendarni prikaz, stavljajući i u politički kontekst sukoba i otvorenog rata, koji se završio nepovoljno, celi proces secesije Gepida od Gota. Ostrogotu pominje još nešto ranije, u gl. 91 i 92:
(90) And what more? Ostrogotha and his men soon crossed the Danube and ravaged Moesia and Thrace. Philip sent the senator Decius against him. And since he could do nothing against the Getae, he released his own soldiers from military service and sent them back to private life, as though it had been by their neglect that the Goths had crossed the Danube. When, as he supposed, he had thus taken vengeance on his soldiers, he returned to Philip. But when the soldiers found themselves expelled from the army after so many hardships, in their anger they had recourse to the protection of Ostrogotha, king of the Goths.
(91) He received them, was aroused by their words and presently led out three hundred thousand armed men, having as allies for this war some of the Taifali and Astringi and also three thousand of the Carpi, a race of men very ready to make war and frequently hostile to the Romans. But in later times when Diocletian and Maximian were Emperors, the Caesar Galerius Maximianus conquered them and made them tributary to the Roman Empire. Besides these tribes, Ostrogotha had Goths and Peucini from the island of Peuce, which lies in the mouths of the Danube where they empty into the Sea of Pontus. He placed in command Argaithus and Guntheric, the noblest leaders of his race.
(91) He received them, was aroused by their words and presently led out three hundred thousand armed men, having as allies for this war some of the Taifali and Astringi and also three thousand of the Carpi, a race of men very ready to make war and frequently hostile to the Romans. But in later times when Diocletian and Maximian were Emperors, the Caesar Galerius Maximianus conquered them and made them tributary to the Roman Empire. Besides these tribes, Ostrogotha had Goths and Peucini from the island of Peuce, which lies in the mouths of the Danube where they empty into the Sea of Pontus. He placed in command Argaithus and Guntheric, the noblest leaders of his race.
Jordanes je smestio kralja Ostrogotu kao vladara Gota koji upadaju preko Dunava i haraju Meziju i Trakiju za vreme rimskog cara Filipa Arapina, negde pri kraju njegove vlasti (244-249). Prodrli su sve do Markianopolja u nebrojenom mnoštvu i odustali od opsade i vratili se kućama tek kad su dobili veliki otkup. Goti su bili u savezu sa Peukinima (Bastarnima), Tajfalima i sa jednim od plemena Vandala (Hazdinzima).
Istorija međunarodnih odnosa Ostrogota i Gepida je bogata. Kada je car Zenon napujdao Teodorika 488. da sa Ostrogotima kren na Italiju kako bi srušio Odoakra, vidimo tragove Jordanesove tradicije o zametku mržnje između Gepida i (ostalih?) Gota i tu je došlo do pravog rata; u bici kod Sirmijuma 489. godine Teodorik je naneo poraz gepidskom kralju Traustili. Traustili sin Trasarik je, izgleda, nastavio da stoluje u Sirmiju ali barem nominalno prihvatio vlast Teodorika, da bi se 504. godine desila neka pobuna; moža su Gepidi pokušali da se u potpunosti otrgnu i Teodorik je poslao jednu kaznenu ekspediciju koja ih je potpuno isterala iz Srema bez nekih poteškoća, a tuda negde se gepidski kraljević Mund priključio Ostrogotima. Kada je Teorodik postao regent mladog vizigotskog kralja, krenuo je oko 508. godine u njegovu zaštitu protiv Hlodovehovih Franaka i tada je u svojoj vojsci imao i neke gepidske najamnike koje je dovukao u velikom broju u severnu Italiju.
, živela isključivo plemena Hrvata. Zamolio bih te da potvrdiš ovo, ali pokušaj da opservacija bude kraća, da ne zatrpavaš temu detaljima koji nisu od interesa za ovo pitanje i da ne bežiš od teme, ako je moguće.
Docnije, dubrovačka arhiepiskopija je insitirala na svojoj nadležnosti nad Srbijom, odnosno Bosnom (delom Srbije koji je ostao u zapadnoj sferi).
