RickRoss
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Selo Gorani ili Goranoi u Lakoniji.
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Slovensko nasleđe u Grčkoj
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I see first names like Ivan(is), Vlado(s). For example, one full name is recorded as Ivanis Servos.
There are quite a few last names such as: Arvanitis, Vlachos, Moraitis, Mouzakis - usually associated with Vlachs and Arvanites. Also, Raftis - a common Vlach surname.
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Ima i Karavlaha, zna se i kako, ali ovde se raspravlja o južnoslovenskom odrazu Egejske Makedonije.
| Vulchishta, V'lchishta, Volchishta (Вулчишта, В'лчишта, Волчишта) | Livadi, Voultista (Λιβάδιον, Βούλτιστα) |
URL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livadi,_Pieria
URLs:
http://www.tsintzina.com/Name Tsintzina.htm
https://radiotrebinje.com/vijest/za...-imenu-okamenjeni-i-kultovi-paganskih-predaka
http://www.tsintzina.com/history1timeline.htm
Interesting that there "was" a village in the Peloponnese with the Name “Tsintzina”, also known as "Tsitsina". Tsintzina was forcibly renamed “Polidrosson” in one of a series of Governmental Decrees replacing over time all local names presumed as non-Greek.
Not only the village of Tsintzina but several others in of Mt. Parnon seem to have common names with villages in a particular cluster of Epirus: Some examples: Doliana, Meligou, Stolos, Sitena and Tsintzina correlate evidently with the Epirus villages of Doliana, Meligou, Stolovon, Satena and Zizina.
It appears that there is a village with the same name in Bosnia and Herzegovina:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicina
It seems that the first Tsintzina settlers most probably resided in the Baouti area, on the village southwest. In the first few years after Independence from the Ottoman Turks in 1929, Tsintzinians consolidated their earlier settlements of Zoupena and Goritsa, some 20 miles to the South.
http://www.tsintzina.com/Name Tsintzina.htm
https://radiotrebinje.com/vijest/za...-imenu-okamenjeni-i-kultovi-paganskih-predaka
http://www.tsintzina.com/history1timeline.htm
Interesting that there "was" a village in the Peloponnese with the Name “Tsintzina”, also known as "Tsitsina". Tsintzina was forcibly renamed “Polidrosson” in one of a series of Governmental Decrees replacing over time all local names presumed as non-Greek.
Not only the village of Tsintzina but several others in of Mt. Parnon seem to have common names with villages in a particular cluster of Epirus: Some examples: Doliana, Meligou, Stolos, Sitena and Tsintzina correlate evidently with the Epirus villages of Doliana, Meligou, Stolovon, Satena and Zizina.
It appears that there is a village with the same name in Bosnia and Herzegovina:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicina
It seems that the first Tsintzina settlers most probably resided in the Baouti area, on the village southwest. In the first few years after Independence from the Ottoman Turks in 1929, Tsintzinians consolidated their earlier settlements of Zoupena and Goritsa, some 20 miles to the South.
"In A.D. 395 a Gothic horde under Alaric devastated Laconia, and subsequently it was overrun by large bands of Slavic immigrants."
URL:
https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=laconia+devastated
Lesandar
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Zar nisu pitali cara za dozvolu da se nasele ?
AELarisa
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Gorani is plural in slavic languages and plural in Greek has the suffix -oi.
They usually write the toponyms that end in -ani with the greek letter H, but they should write it with OI instead cause its plural.
The closest village to Agia had the name Rechani (Речани - in greek they wrote it with the suffix -H) and they changed the name to Melissi and then to Metaxohori (the current name). There is a small river there.
It was firstly mentioned in the 17th century, so it was probably some villagers of Agia that settled up there.
svakodnevnica
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Џаба све то. То су сад грци...
AELarisa, out of curiosity - in what sense is the phrase "βλαχικην διαλεκτον του" and the term "ο Βλαχος" being used below?
''Και παλιν ο Κολοκοτρωνης (ο Βλαχος ή κλεφτης, οπως τον ονομαζαν οι κοτσαμπασηδες), ο συκοφαντηθεις και ετι συκοφαντουμενος [...] με τη δημωδη βλαχικην διαλεκτον του και τας αφελεις παροιμιας και παραβολας του...''
This comes from Μ. Οικονομου, Ιστορικα-Ελληνικη σειρα, tome 14, Αthens 1957, Page 143.
Also, in what sense are the terms "βλαχος"/"βλαχους" being utilized below?
Lesandar
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Vlaški dijalekt grčkog jezika, profan sa neukim poslovicama i parabolama.AELarisa, out of curiosity - in what sense is the phrase "βλαχικην διαλεκτον του" and the term "ο Βλαχος" being used below?
''Και παλιν ο Κολοκοτρωνης (ο Βλαχος ή κλεφτης, οπως τον ονομαζαν οι κοτσαμπασηδες), ο συκοφαντηθεις και ετι συκοφαντουμενος [...] με τη δημωδη βλαχικην διαλεκτον του και τας αφελεις παροιμιας και παραβολας του...''
This comes from Μ. Οικονομου, Ιστορικα-Ελληνικη σειρα, tome 14, Αthens 1957, Page 143.
Also, in what sense are the terms "βλαχος"/"βλαχους" being utilized below?
Vrlo očekivano i slaže se sa činjenicama. Ne postoji genetska razlika između stanovništva koje govori grčkim i vlaškim, samo je u pitanju par slojeva romanizacije od kojih je izvesniji onaj pod Mlečanima.
Termin Vlah je izjednačen sa lopovom, odnosno, u ovom slučaju hajdukom, što je samo mišljenje kodžabaše.
AELarisa
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It probably is used with the meaning of "villager".
Kolokotronis by the way had the family name Tserginis, which is said to be slavic, from the word Черга.
He was born in Libovitsi, which is most probably a slavic toponym (maybe the greek form of ljubovci or something like that).
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Λιμποβίσι_Αρκαδίας
I see another slavic toponym in that text above, Zatuna.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zatouna
Lesandar
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Unfortunately, çerge is old turkic word mеaning tent.It probably is used with the meaning of "villager".
Kolokotronis by the way had the family name Tserginis, which is said to be slavic, from the word Черга.
svakodnevnica
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Where is your vilage ?It probably is used with the meaning of "villager".
Kolokotronis by the way had the family name Tserginis, which is said to be slavic, from the word Черга.
He was born in Libovitsi, which is most probably a slavic toponym (maybe the greek form of ljubovci or something like that).
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Λιμποβίσι_Αρκαδίας
I see another slavic toponym in that text above, Zatuna.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zatouna
svakodnevnica
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Da li zna neko da li danas ima slovenskog stanovništva južnije od Soluna ?
Kolokotronis wrote his will for his children and was blessed to see Collinos, his younger son, married to the grand daughter of Caradja, the Prince of Moldo-Vlachia, saying the unparalleled phrase, “Now the fur coat has become an in-law with the cloak, the fez with the top hat, the Sovereign of the Vlachs with a Vlach of an old man!”
There are two additional anecdotes: Vlach songs, as sung by the Arvanitovlach G. Dikas, born in 1910 in Hrupista (now Argos Orestikon) Macedonia, by whoever heard and learned from the Vlach-speaking residents of the village Koutsi Argolida (recorded in 1995).
There are two additional anecdotes: Vlach songs, as sung by the Arvanitovlach G. Dikas, born in 1910 in Hrupista (now Argos Orestikon) Macedonia, by whoever heard and learned from the Vlach-speaking residents of the village Koutsi Argolida (recorded in 1995).
Deuodone
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Како да нема...
Ех, сунце ти сунчано...
Али не смеју да писну од "браће" (сачувај нас Боже од њих) Грка.
...
У велике смо грехове упали још под Обреновићима окрећући се од Русије Аустроугарској, а под Карађокама смо са Југославијом запечатили своју смрт. Окренули смо тако против себе и Србе из данашње Грчке (назови Грке, сем анадолаца...) и Бугаре и сву бивша-ју менажерију гамади (бар Далматинци нису никад били 100% против нас...). А савезници су нам "постали" наши вечити СМРТНИ НЕПРИЈАТЕЉИ: Енглези, Французи, Римокатолици, ха ха Турци, Јевреји, Арапи, ...Американци.
Ми смо класичан пример самоубиства из обести владара сељобера...
Pravi Vlah
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Is there a romance-speaking population in Greece?
It probably is used with the meaning of "villager".
Kolokotronis by the way had the family name Tserginis, which is said to be slavic, from the word Черга.
He was born in Libovitsi, which is most probably a slavic toponym (maybe the greek form of ljubovci or something like that).
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Λιμποβίσι_Αρκαδίας
I see another slavic toponym in that text above, Zatuna.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zatouna
By "probably", do you mean you are not 100% sure - or are there other reasons?
Tertsetis wrote that Kolokotronis knew and spoke to the Vlach shepherds in the "dopia" language (as a comparison/analogy, this term "dopia" or "local" is used in Greek Macedonia to refer to the local/native Macedonian (Slavonic) speakers). Phrantzis said that the people of the Peloponnese called him "king of the Vlachs", and he also said in his memoirs that Tsergini (from the homeland they originated from) were nomadic shepherds, and not farmers. The Tsergini homeland was Arvanitovlach and not Arvanite or Slavonic.
Some of the Arvanitovlachs were from the ancestral Ziarkanon (= Siarganaion / Tserginaion) and suffered tremendous damage during the revolution of 1821. An old Arvanitovlach couplet says: Maras lji Sarganjots s’ dussira Mureaua tots, i.e. translation: Unfortunate are Sarganaioi, all perished in the Morea.
svakodnevnica
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Gde tačno, a da je južnije od Soluna ?
Gledston
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Черга је персијска, не турска (خرگه).
Mrkalj
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- Zaton, Dubrovnik-Neretva County, a village located northwest of Dubrovnik, Croatia
- Zaton, Šibenik-Knin County, a village located northeast of Vodice, Croatia
- Zaton, Zadar County, a village located south of Nin, Croatia
- Zaton Doli, a village located east of Ston, Croatia
- Zaton Obrovački, a village located north of Obrovac, Croatia
- Zátoň, Český Krumlov District, a village located southeast of Větřní, Czech Republic
- Zátoň, Prachatice District, a village located north of Lenora, Czech Republic
- Zaton, Bijelo Polje Municipality, a village located southeast of Bijelo_Polje, Montenegro
- Zaton (lake), a karst lake in Ponoarele, Mehedinti County, Romania
- Zaton, Astrakhan Oblast, Russia
1) The Latins in the Levant, By William Miller
Page 4: "... they were confined to the mountain fastness of Arkadia and Taygetos (called in the Chronicles "the mountain of the Slavs") ..."
2) Pouqueville says that Athamania occupied the localities now known as Djoumerca and Radovitch. It properly belonged to Epirus, and Pliny makes a mistake in considering it as a part of Ætolia. Dolopia, now called Anovlachia, was properly reckoned part of Epirus.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=4:chapter=3
3) Julien Bordier, a French traveler, saw a Turkish village in Athens: "From this pervasive state, there is only a sad Turkish village, called Setina, and it is in the hands of one aga." (Athens was called Satines or Setines or Stines; Acropolis was Castro; Piraeus was called Porto-Draco or Porto-Leone from the marble lion, seized by the Venetians.) Between 1480 and 1546, the city of Athens had been vacated by epidemics, as evidenced by the anonymous chronicle of Oxford (Ectesis chronica and chronicon Athenarum, London, 1902). Guillet wrote in 1675: "I had read and heard a thousand times that Athens was a desolate place".
Page 4: "... they were confined to the mountain fastness of Arkadia and Taygetos (called in the Chronicles "the mountain of the Slavs") ..."
2) Pouqueville says that Athamania occupied the localities now known as Djoumerca and Radovitch. It properly belonged to Epirus, and Pliny makes a mistake in considering it as a part of Ætolia. Dolopia, now called Anovlachia, was properly reckoned part of Epirus.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=4:chapter=3
3) Julien Bordier, a French traveler, saw a Turkish village in Athens: "From this pervasive state, there is only a sad Turkish village, called Setina, and it is in the hands of one aga." (Athens was called Satines or Setines or Stines; Acropolis was Castro; Piraeus was called Porto-Draco or Porto-Leone from the marble lion, seized by the Venetians.) Between 1480 and 1546, the city of Athens had been vacated by epidemics, as evidenced by the anonymous chronicle of Oxford (Ectesis chronica and chronicon Athenarum, London, 1902). Guillet wrote in 1675: "I had read and heard a thousand times that Athens was a desolate place".
Deuodone
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Па СВУДА и северније и јужније од Солуна.
Још је најтеже наћи Србина око самог Солуна, јер су нарочито њих побили и раселили по острвима и у Турску и 1922-23. и код прогона Маркосових "комуниста" (све го Србин који је веровао да их Стаљин може да ослободи... - јес да Енглези пусте Русију на Егеј, мало морген...).
А остало и до Пелопонеза (и на Пелопонезу) је до пре 30 година било Срба баш много.
Наравно, ја сам тада кријући се као Американац ишао по Грчкој и "пуштао уво" - СВИ су причали неку верзију Српског, много чистију него што говоре у Македонији. Ех шта све нисам тада сазнао...
И овај неки Влах овде пита ваљда за Цинцаре - и њих има прилично, али то нису Власи. Има и Јевреја, али мало...
Власи су сточари (примитивни), најчешће Словени-Срби који су остали дуго верни Велесу - Валесу, то се у данашњој Грчкој углавном претопило у Србе, па у Грке, не знам ниједног Влаха у Грчкој (што не значи да их нема... већ једноставно немам појма).
Ево на пример, Лептокарија, до Ларисе - све је го Србин малтене листом, али нико није луд да допадне Грчкој полицији у руке да га по обичају ОБОГАЉЕ ОД БАТИНА.
ПС. Данас после свих траума које смо имали са западним "пријатељима", нешто не верујем да се Срби у Грчкој уздају више у нас...
И да децу ноћу под лампама уче свом матерњем језику...
Има и неки издајнички потпис Карађокара, да прихватају да у Грчкој нема Срба - све у њиховом АНТИСРПСКОМ маниру...
ПС. И да ПИХ!
Кад би људи појмили колико нам је историја црна све због Енглеза и запада, али ПРВЕНСТВЕНО због наше користољубивости, себичлука, безобзирности, ... - невере.
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svakodnevnica
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Занимљиво је то што причаш.
Али види, причао сам једном приликом са једним грком на ту тему и он ми је рекао следеће: "Све је то тачно, али ми нисмо истерали словене него смо их асимилирали временом. То је била наша дугорочна политика. Јер су прво словени нас истребили у 6 веку све до Пелопонеза, а ми смо се касније постепено враћали, како знамо и умемо, вековима, да би у 20. веку заокружили процес повратка на првобитно стање пред словенско досељавање."
Мени једино није јасно шта се дешавало 500 година под турцима у Грчкој. Осим исламизације, да ли је било хеленизације, а ако је било како то да је хеленизација обављана под турцима ?
Што се Енлеске тиче у праву си, али Русе је пустио Асад на Средоземље, тако да ако неће Црна Гора и Грчка, хоће Сирија. Али опет ми не иде у главу зашто су грци 1999. онако протествовали за време бомбардовања пружајући нам подршку и зашто су убили енглеског дипломату.
За себичлук си у праву - то нам је хронична болест, исто као и невера, с друге стране грци су већи верници од нас.
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