pa Boze PravdeBi2:
stara srpska politeistichka himna 8)
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ИСТОРИЈСКИ ИСУС
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stara srpska politeistichka himna 8)
pushtaju na National Geografiji zanimljivu emisiju o tomeAKHENATON:Sve jedno, resava je u pitanju. Eto neko se setio da Mitru poveze sa Isusom.
i mitri
izis
jovanu
gnosticima...
jel si gledo?
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
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U ovo sam upućena,ali lepo je što si napisao.I prilikom rođena Mitre takođe se prisustvuju neki proroci.Vidim paralelu između boga sa jagnjetom i božijeg jagnjeta.
crow:
Nisam, obicno sve zivo gledam, ali to sam propustio. :sad:
bice ponovoAKHENATON:
mnogo pouchno delo...
Sto posto hoce, sa onim Jevandjeljem po Judi mi dosadise. Tri puta za mesec dana su pustali.
da znash...
Prisoner
Elita
- Poruka
- 21.018
crow:bice ponovo
mnogo pouchno delo...
Ajd, javi ako saznaš ranije.
Prisoner
Elita
- Poruka
- 21.018
Goddess of the far east:
Boginjo, hoćeš, pošto malo više znaš o tome, da nam pojasniš malo. Eto, mene radi... ;-)
Prisoner
Elita
- Poruka
- 21.018
crow:pa Boze Pravde
stara srpska politeistichka himna 8)
Zbog toga sam se i pitala koja himna.
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
Crow je već nešto pojasnio.Kao što je rekao mitraizam je religija nastala u Persiji,prihvaćena u Rimskom carstvu.Neke paralele smo naveli.Mitra je navodno rođen u pećini,takođe su ga zvali spasiteljem kao i Isusa.U mitraizmu je takođe postojao obred krštenja.Moguće je da je mitraizam uticao na Pavlovo učenje.
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
Bi2:A, jesi ti hteo ovim stihom da se ja zalepim na brzaka kao na kapetana..
Ovaj citat sam po sebi ništa mi nije govorio, pa ja malo lutala Biblijom i ukapiram da ovo nema veze sa kapetanom..
Knjiga proroka Avakuma
Judini grijehovi. Kazna zbog njih preko Haldejaca.Prorokova molitva i jadikovanje.
1.6. Jer, evo, ja ću podignuti Haldejce, narod ljut i nagao, koji će ići po zemlji širom da osvoji naselja koja nijesu njegova.
1.7. Žestok je i strašan, sud njegov i vlast njegova od njega izlazi.
1.8. Konji će mu biti brži od risova i ljući od vukova uveče, velikoo će mnoštvo biti konjika njegovih, i idući izdaleka konjici njegovi doletjeće kao orao kad hiti na lov.
1.9. Svi će doći na grabež, s lica će biti potsmijeh, smijaće se svakom gradu, nasuće zemlje, i uzeće ga.
1.10. I carevima će se rugati i knezovi će im biti potsmijeh, smijaće se svakom gradu, nasuće zemlje, i uzeće ga.
1.11. Tada će mu se promijeniti duh, proći će i skriviće; ta će mu sila njegova biti od boga njegova.
1.12.Nijesi li ti od vijeka, Gospode boće moj, sveče moj? ( Ko pita ovo? )
Nećemo umrijeti; ti si ga, Gospode, odredio za sud; i utvrdio si ga, stijeno, za *******.
1.13. Čiste su oči tvoje da ne možeš gledati zla, i bezakonja ne možeš gledati; zašto gledaš bezakonike? Mučiš, kad bezbožnik proždire pravijega od sebe?
1.14.I hočeš li ostaviti ljude kao ribe morske, kao bubice, koje nemaju gospodara?
1.15. Izvlači ih sve udicom, hvata ih u mrežu svoju, i zgrće ih predjom svojom, zato se veseli i raduje.
1.16. Zato prinosi žrtvu svojoj mreži, i kadi svojoj predji; jer je tijem dio njegov pretio i hana mu izabrana.
1.17. Hoće li zato izvlačiti mrežu svoju i jednako ubijati narode nemilice?
Dalje ide: Utjeha za vjeru.Grijehovi Haldejaca. Proricanje o propasti oholijeh.
Ovo sam više prekucala zbog drugih učesnika, a naravno ne zbog tebe ..
E, pa ovako:
U citatu 1.5. pominju se Haldejci.
Evo malo istorisjkih podataka o dogadjaju o kojem se priča u ovom citatu.
Asirci su Vavilon osvajali dva puta u VII veku. Prvi put za vreme vladavine cara Sanheriba i drugi put za vreme Asurbanipala.
Tokom vladavine Sanheriba, Vavilon je uglavnom bio pobunjen grad. Pobuna je bila ugašena tek nakon što je 689. p.n.e. Senherib naredio kompleto unistenje grada, sto je dovelo do sukoba u Mesopotamiji, a Sanherib je ubijen. Njegov naslednik, Esarhadon, je odmah izgradio novi grad. Nakon njegove smrti Vavilon je nasledio stariji sin Šamaš-šum-ukinu, a on je posle ratovao s bratom Asurbanipalom oko prestola.
Haldejci i Medjani su zajedno napali Asirce, zauzeli Vavilon i Ninivu 612. p.n.e.
i konacno unistili Asiriju 605. god. p.n.e u bici kod Karhemiša.
Haldejce su pokorili Persijanci. Car Kir ih je uništio 538.p.n.e. Po osvajanju Vavilona, car Kir je oslobodio Jevreje iz vavilonskog ropstva.
Ali, ajd da napravimo poredjenje prvog citata sa ovim 1.6, ne zameri:
"Mat. 17:20. A Isus reče im: Za neverstvo vaše. Jer vam kažem zaista: ako imate vere koliko zrno gorušičino, reći ćete gori ovoj: Pređi odavde tamo, i preći će, i ništa neće vam biti nemoguće.
- Rekao si ovde da je tačno moje tumačenje da Isus prosto traži od čoveka da stekne sam veru u sebe, i ako bude bio siguran u sebe, sve što poželi, pa makar to bilo i pomeranje šume sa jedne strane brda na drugo, ona će preći. Znači, ovde se govori o ljudskoj svesti i njegovoj moći kao proizvod te svesti.
Kako onda shvatiti citat 1.6. ?
" Jer, evo, ja ću podignuti Haldejce, narod ljut i nagao, koji će ići po zemlji širom da osvoji naselja koja nijesu njegova.
Zar ti Haldejci nisu bili već svesni sebe i svoje moći? Kad su znali napasti i osvojiti Vavilon, znači vrlo dobro su znali šta i zašto rade, jel tako? Bili su svesni šta žele. E sad,
pitanje: ko može svesne ljude da "podigne" na bilo šta što je protivno njihovoj svesti, bilo to dobro ili zlo? Nešto tu ne pije vodu..I zašto On sebi daje za pravo da objašnjava dogadjaje koji su se zbili pre Njega, i pri tom im pridaje svoju volju i moć? .
Ako se u citatu 1.6. kaže "..evo, ja ću podignuti Haldejce", ko to kaže pod 1.13..."Čiste su oči tvoje da ne možeš gledati zla"? Kako su Mu oči čiste, predpostavljam da se misli na čistu savest, kad je u 1.6. rečeno ".ja ću podignuti Haldejce" ?
Bi2 vidiš ko je oslobodio Jevreje.
imali su i prichest s vinom i hlebom takodjer 8)Goddess of the far east:
vazi...Bi2:
mada nema teletex
imamo neku fush kablovsku
nije bilo krshtenje, ako se ne varamGoddess of the far east:
obred inicijacije je bio neshto nalik prichesti kod hriscana.
krshtenje je patentiro glavna isusova konkurencija
jovan
a nisam siguran ni za rodjenje...
nije imo ljdske osobine...
mislim da govorish o zaratustri.
idem da guglam, da ne lupam gluposti 8) (iskreno, odavno chito pa zaboravio...)
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
Da li je moguće da je vino simbol bikove krvi koga je Mitra ubio?
u pravu si bila...
sad bash chitam.
moguce...
sad bash chitam.
moguce...
mnogo ima...
evo link
ja cu da prelistam kad imam vreme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
Similarities to Christianity
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.
"The resemblances between the two hostile churches were so striking as to impress even the minds of antiquity" (Cumont, 193). Like Origen (an early Christian writer and in this respect a peculiarity among the other patristic writers), Mithraism held that all souls pre-existed in the ethereal regions with God, and inhabited a body upon birth. Similar to Pythagorean, Jewish, and Pauline theology, life then becomes the great struggle between good and evil, spirit and body, ending in judgment, with the elect being saved. "They both admitted to the existence of a heaven inhabited by beautiful ones. . .and a hell peopled by demons situate in the bowels of earth" (Cumont 191).
Both religions used the rite of baptism, and each participated in an outwardly similar type of sacrament, bread and wine. Both Mithra and Christ were supposedly visited by shepherds and Magi. It has been claimed that both Mithraism and Christianity considered Sunday their holy day, though for different reasons, although the evidence that Mithradists practiced weekly worship, any more than any other pagan religion of the time, is lacking. Many have noted that the title of Pope (father) is found in Mithraic doctrine and seemingly prohibited in Christian doctrine. The words Peter (rock) and mass (sacrament) have significance in Mithraism.
Mithraism and early Christianity considered abstinence, celibacy, and self-control to be among their highest virtues. Both had similar beliefs about the world, destiny, heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul. Their conceptions of the battles between good and evil were similar (though Mithraism was more dualistic[1]), including a great and final battle at the end of times. Mithraism's flood at the beginning of history was deemed necessary because what began in water would end in fire, according to Mithraic eschatology. Both religions believed in revelation as key to their doctrine. Both awaited the last judgment and resurrection of the dead.
When inducted into the degree of Leo, he was purified with honey, and baptised, not with water, but with fire, as John the Baptist declared that his successor would baptise. After this second baptism, initiates were considered "participants," and they received the sacrament of bread and wine commemorating Mithra's banquet at the conclusion of his labors (Larson 190).
Although Christianity eventually rivaled the four-century-old cult of Mithra in Rome, they were practiced by different social classes. Mithra was popular among soldiers and had a certain elitism because it barred women, and like Gnosticism, it emphasized hidden knowledge. On the other hand, Christianity was a version that could be practiced by women and so it enjoyed a degree of populism. Under emperors like Julian and Commodus, Mithra became the patron of Roman armies (Cumont 87).
Mithra had no mother, but was miraculously born of a rock, or the petra genetix (de Riencourt 135). His worshipers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross (Cumont 160). This was one of seven Mithraic ritual meals.
Mithra's cave-temple on the Vatican Hill was seized by Christians in 376 A.D. (J. Smith 146). The Mithraic festival of Epiphany, marking the arrival of sun-priests ("Magi") at the Savior's birthplace, was adopted from the Christian church only as late as 813 A.D. (Brewster 55).
Christianity may have emphasized common features that attracted Mithra followers, perhaps the crucifix appealed to those Mithra followers who had crosses already branded on their foreheads. In art Mithra, a sun god, was normally depicted with a halo representing the sun. In Christianity, the halo remains, but has lost its meaning because of the doctrinal prohibition against star gazing, as recorded in Halakaic sanctions.
Justin Martyr, in a discussion with the Jewish apologist Trypho, wrote: "'And when those who record the mysteries of Mithras say that he was begotten of a rock, and call the place where those who believe in him are initiated a cave, do I not perceive here that the utterance of Daniel, that a stone without hands was cut out of a great mountain, has been imitated by them, and that they have attempted likewise to imitate the whole of Isaiah's words? For they contrived that the words of righteousness be quoted also by them. . . . And when I hear, Trypho,' said I, 'that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this.'" (Dialogue with Trypho, LXXVIII). Tertullian gives a similar account.
According to Martin A. Larson, in The Story of Christian Origins (1977), the first example of mythological concept of the savior god which is present in many faiths including Christianity and Mithraism is Osiris. Larson concluded that the general concept of savior must have originated from the savior cult of Osiris. He also believed that the Essenes were Jewish Pythagoreans, whose members not only gave birth to Christianity as Essenes, but were directly influenced by Zoroastrian doctrine as Pythagoreans — a view probably shared by Cumont.[2] Mithraism, in Larson's view, was an established but exclusive sect devoted to social justice, and was assimilated by state-sponsored Christianity before being disposed of in name.
evo link
ja cu da prelistam kad imam vreme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
Similarities to Christianity
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.
"The resemblances between the two hostile churches were so striking as to impress even the minds of antiquity" (Cumont, 193). Like Origen (an early Christian writer and in this respect a peculiarity among the other patristic writers), Mithraism held that all souls pre-existed in the ethereal regions with God, and inhabited a body upon birth. Similar to Pythagorean, Jewish, and Pauline theology, life then becomes the great struggle between good and evil, spirit and body, ending in judgment, with the elect being saved. "They both admitted to the existence of a heaven inhabited by beautiful ones. . .and a hell peopled by demons situate in the bowels of earth" (Cumont 191).
Both religions used the rite of baptism, and each participated in an outwardly similar type of sacrament, bread and wine. Both Mithra and Christ were supposedly visited by shepherds and Magi. It has been claimed that both Mithraism and Christianity considered Sunday their holy day, though for different reasons, although the evidence that Mithradists practiced weekly worship, any more than any other pagan religion of the time, is lacking. Many have noted that the title of Pope (father) is found in Mithraic doctrine and seemingly prohibited in Christian doctrine. The words Peter (rock) and mass (sacrament) have significance in Mithraism.
Mithraism and early Christianity considered abstinence, celibacy, and self-control to be among their highest virtues. Both had similar beliefs about the world, destiny, heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul. Their conceptions of the battles between good and evil were similar (though Mithraism was more dualistic[1]), including a great and final battle at the end of times. Mithraism's flood at the beginning of history was deemed necessary because what began in water would end in fire, according to Mithraic eschatology. Both religions believed in revelation as key to their doctrine. Both awaited the last judgment and resurrection of the dead.
When inducted into the degree of Leo, he was purified with honey, and baptised, not with water, but with fire, as John the Baptist declared that his successor would baptise. After this second baptism, initiates were considered "participants," and they received the sacrament of bread and wine commemorating Mithra's banquet at the conclusion of his labors (Larson 190).
Although Christianity eventually rivaled the four-century-old cult of Mithra in Rome, they were practiced by different social classes. Mithra was popular among soldiers and had a certain elitism because it barred women, and like Gnosticism, it emphasized hidden knowledge. On the other hand, Christianity was a version that could be practiced by women and so it enjoyed a degree of populism. Under emperors like Julian and Commodus, Mithra became the patron of Roman armies (Cumont 87).
Mithra had no mother, but was miraculously born of a rock, or the petra genetix (de Riencourt 135). His worshipers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross (Cumont 160). This was one of seven Mithraic ritual meals.
Mithra's cave-temple on the Vatican Hill was seized by Christians in 376 A.D. (J. Smith 146). The Mithraic festival of Epiphany, marking the arrival of sun-priests ("Magi") at the Savior's birthplace, was adopted from the Christian church only as late as 813 A.D. (Brewster 55).
Christianity may have emphasized common features that attracted Mithra followers, perhaps the crucifix appealed to those Mithra followers who had crosses already branded on their foreheads. In art Mithra, a sun god, was normally depicted with a halo representing the sun. In Christianity, the halo remains, but has lost its meaning because of the doctrinal prohibition against star gazing, as recorded in Halakaic sanctions.
Justin Martyr, in a discussion with the Jewish apologist Trypho, wrote: "'And when those who record the mysteries of Mithras say that he was begotten of a rock, and call the place where those who believe in him are initiated a cave, do I not perceive here that the utterance of Daniel, that a stone without hands was cut out of a great mountain, has been imitated by them, and that they have attempted likewise to imitate the whole of Isaiah's words? For they contrived that the words of righteousness be quoted also by them. . . . And when I hear, Trypho,' said I, 'that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this.'" (Dialogue with Trypho, LXXVIII). Tertullian gives a similar account.
According to Martin A. Larson, in The Story of Christian Origins (1977), the first example of mythological concept of the savior god which is present in many faiths including Christianity and Mithraism is Osiris. Larson concluded that the general concept of savior must have originated from the savior cult of Osiris. He also believed that the Essenes were Jewish Pythagoreans, whose members not only gave birth to Christianity as Essenes, but were directly influenced by Zoroastrian doctrine as Pythagoreans — a view probably shared by Cumont.[2] Mithraism, in Larson's view, was an established but exclusive sect devoted to social justice, and was assimilated by state-sponsored Christianity before being disposed of in name.
Prisoner
Elita
- Poruka
- 21.018
O, Sokrate, Sokrate....da samo znaš kako si bio u pravu .
Znači, Mitra ?
Znači, Mitra ?
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
crow:
Prisoner
Elita
- Poruka
- 21.018
Čitam postove na Politici, bliže se izbori, kad i oni tamo raspravljaju o Bibliji.. :shock:
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
Eh ta famozna knjiga.Dokle će biti predmet rasprava?Sada će se tamo pojaviti ristob.Ristob nemoj da mi zameriš,ali ponekad mi se učini da vas je dvojica.
Goddess of the far east
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.045
Čitam,čitam i čudim se kakvog sveta ima i kakvo je njihovo poimanje boga.Ja lično ne verujem u istog,ali da sam vernik nikada ga ne bih shvatila kao boga kazne i nikada ga ne bih tako predstavljala.
Bi2:
vidish kakvih sve likova po srbiji ima???
demokrate jahachi apokalipse
a komunjare apostoli! STRASHNO!!!
ristob
Veoma poznat
- Poruka
- 12.338
Na Krstarici jedino ja postujem pod nickom ristob i ni jedan nick više ne koristim. Pod tvojim nickom, kao i Bi2, nekad postuje muško a nekad žensko. Ne znam kako to da protumačim.Goddess of the far east:
Slobodno komentarišem svakoga iz najhumanijih namera i nikoga posebno ne zastupam.
Nijedan vernik ne shvata Boga kao Boga kazne. Bog je u svet ugradio zakone po kojima se sve događa. Možemo se buniti protivu Njegovih zakona, ali na našu štetu. Ljudi su ti koji kažnjavaju i sebe i druge. Ako se pokaju za grehe i, normalno, više ne budu grešili, mogu se nadati spasu. Spas je ovozemaljski a nagrada je nebeska. Ako nećete da verujete ne morate ni da vređate. Vernik, pogotovo, ne bi smeo da vređa nikoga.
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