Историја грчког народа

Nedavno je završena rekonstrukcija lica devojke koja je živela u Tesaliji pre 7000 godina. Dali su joj ime Avgi.

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Nije moj tip, malo podseća na Švarcija, ali ko voli:D

https://www.realmofhistory.com/2018/01/26/reconstruction-avgi-girl-neolithic-greece/
 
Serbian historian Predrag Komatina states openly that the Peloponnesian Tzakonians are not descendants of ancient Lacedaemonians - but rather a specific historical phenomenon (citing Caratzas).

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Now, if you have patience to read further let's remind ourselves of what Caratzas wrote and where the Tzakonians likely came from (I might have previously shared this already).

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Starting from top of page 122:

It is now very likely that the Vlachs were settled in the Peloponnese. What historical fact hides the legend which talks about Tzacones?

We must remember here that in Macedonia Tzacones were known as heretics too. This characteristic could, on its own, lead the author to recast the legend, to attribute their expulsion from Athos to Constantine the Great, defender of Orthodoxy. The author of the legend could have proceeded to this falsification starting from the measures taken against the heretics by Constantine Monomachus or Alexius Comnenus, both protectors of the Orthodoxy and the Holy Mountain.

In the 19th century, the tradition of the Macedonian origin of the inhabitants of Cynuria was present (Cynuria = today's Tzaconia). But this tradition alone can not serve as proof of an Athonite origin of the present Tzacones of the Peloponnese. However, two other written testimonies speak of a population transfer from Athos to the Peloponnese, and specify the date of their arrival. These are two chrysobulls by which Andronicus II Paleologus (1292) and John VI Paleologus (1344) confirm privileges conceded earlier and rule disputes of the Athonite monasteries Vatopedion and Esphigmenou.


Highlighted footnotes, 198 and 199:

198) Theodorete mentions disorders caused by the presence of Vlachs in Athos in 1097.

199) Sathas tells us: "A Tzaconian merchant, M. Colossucas, whom I met three years ago in Paris, has told me that among his compatriots there persists a tradition according to which the Tzaconians, formerly occupying Macedonia, were exiled by the emperors."

PS:

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Poslednja izmena:
Histoire de la Grèce moderne, 1828-2012: mythes et réalités - str. 14 i 15, Nicolas Bloudanis.

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=9Z...oderne, 1828-2012: mythes et réalités&f=false

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Str. 14:

The populations of the Greek space thus keep their own traditions, a mixture of Christianized Hellenism and cultures and languages specific to each ethnic group, mainly Albanian, Vlach and Latin (Italian). The whole Christian population, including the Balkan Slavs, is the "Rum millet", the "Roman Nation", in fact "Greek".

Str. 14 i 15:

The immense majority of the population remains practically illiterate, as indeed in many countries of Europe until the 18th century. The population retains only a vague memory of its past, through folk tales and songs, most of which relate to the Byzantine period, but some also to antiquity, and which are transmitted from generation to generation.

As for the Greek language, it is conserved essentially in the Church: the popular language is a set of dialects: Vlach, Arvanite or Levantine, according to the regions, in which Greek words are mixed with Romanian, Albanian or Italian.

At the beginning of the 19th century, there emerges a Greece very different from the image that the West has received since the Renaissance, that of classical Antiquity.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Arvaniti, Vlasi/Romani, Sloveni, Turci, itd ..................................., Katalonci?

(Rural Greek population of Athens/Thebes = Orthodox Vlachs but mostly Arvanites.)

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Laert Vasili: "For many years, Arvanite language was accepted as the language of the people. So, the Arvanite language was the language of the people, while the official language was Greek. The most elite area of Nafplio is called "Arvanitja". It is the first capital."

 
Poslednja izmena:
Vlasi, Albanci/Arvaniti, Sloveni, Jermeni, Lazi, Katalanci, Venecijanci, itd... a sada i Gagauzi.

Video - "That was my life!!! Christa babo Greek Gagauzka!":

"This lady was born in 1901 in Saraplar (Serbettar) of the Edirne District . She died in Orestiara Greece in 2007 (106 years old) This video have taken in 2005 ... She tell us her personal story....Her Family story....The story of all the gagauz people ,who left their places ,because of the Turkish hate for them....That because they were Christians and they were Greek!!!"

Iz knjige G. Nakratzasa -

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URL:
http://www.valueforless.com/cohila/...ishment-modern-greek-army-1832-history-europe

Bavarian Establishment Of The Modern Greek Army 1832 - History Of Europe

The Bavarian Expedition To Greece – King Otto Of Greece
By: Spiro De Castro Leon
Date: Tuesday, January 17th, 2012
Creation Of Greek State & Military By The Bavarians 1833-1865
Political Perspective

Modern Greece is a country born out of a mixture of regional ethnicities, mostly huddled under the banner of the Greek Orthodox Christian Church (often a flag of convenience for Jews in Turkey) and therefore describing themselves as 'Greek'.

European powers including Russia, Britain, Germany, Austria-Hungary, France and Italy, desired the demise of the troublesome Ottoman Empire and supported its breakup into independent countries, along ethnic-cultural lines, a rare instance of western European agreement, one of these newly created countries was modern Greece.

The consensus figure to become King Of Greece, and create the structures of an independent Greek state, was Prince Otto, Bavarian (German) King Ludwig's second son.

With money borrowed from the British Government and the illustrious Jewish banking family of Rothschild, an expedition of Bavarian buraeucrats and palace officials plus a Bavarian military expedition force of 3500 men was created as the initial army of Greece, these were dispatched in 1835 to Greece together with prince Otto as the new king of Greece

Brief Historical Perspective

Following the revolt against the Ottoman Turkish rule by (the Vassal administrator) Ali Pasha of Janina (now in modern Greece), Morea, Rumelia, and Thessaly also revolted in 1821, this was met with extreme cruelty by the Turks, the Greeks received no help from Europe or Russia, however numerous associations sprung up in northern Europe with the aim of helping Greece. One of those formed in Munich, the capital of Bavaria, led by the philologist and pedagogue (teacher) Thiersch.

In vain the pragmatic Metternich tried to argue with them that modern Greeks were not the Greeks of antiquity but a mixture of Albanians, Slavs, and other elements, the liberal romanticists like King Ludwig of Bavaria saw in Greeks the descendants of ancient Greeks who brought human culture to its highest perfection.
 
I have been harping on "terminology" (i.e. use of the term "Greeks" and what it means/encompasses) for a long time, and this is yet another blatant example of it.

The testimony comes to us from a French source (Perrot), from 1855 - far from "old". Let's see what was the "ethnic composition" of Prishtina, Kosovo according to Perrot.

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As we can plainly see, the population of Prishtina was: "12,000, of which two-thirds are Albanians and the rest are Greeks."

Let's break it down and analyze this in more detail.

It's easy to demonstrate and show who were those "Greeks". Branislav Nushich, in 1902, talks about the diverse ethnic composition of Prishtina:

"Prishtina is a compact town; houses do not have spacious courtyards and gardens... When Prishtina was declared the headquarters of the Vilayet, it barely counted 1800 houses and now it stands at 3760 houses. Of these, 3170 houses are Turks and Albanians; 420 houses of Serbs, and there are at least 100 houses of Gypsies, about 50 Jewish houses, 10 to 15 houses of Armani (Vlachs) and a little bit of Circassians. If we were count roughly five souls per household then the population proportions would be: 15850 Turks and Albanians; 2100 Serbs; 500 Gypsies; 250 Jews and several dozen Armani (Vlachs) and some Circassians, which would total 18,800 souls. Although the official Turkish statistics show this number, however, this is exaggerated. Prishtina does not have more than 12,000 inhabitants, because many people were forced out of the Vilayet and a lot of houses were left empty. A large number of people are moving out into livlier trade places, as well as emigrating to Serbia."

Branislav Nushich link:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/priština-u-/приштинабранислав-ђ-нушић-косово/1457808190952831/

In another Serbian source/publication below we see that Jukich states that Prishtina has about 12,000 residents of which Serbs make up one-third of the population (including Vlachs in this number). According to the first official Yugoslav census in 1921, Prishtina had 14,338 inhabitants of which Serbs (4325), including 'other Slavs' (19) and Vlachs (17) formed roughly one-third (Serbian-speaking Orthodox Gypsies were apparently counted as 'Serbs' as well). Two-thirds were made up of people declaring themselves as Turks (7115!) and Albanians (1421).

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URL for the above pages:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=NR...oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Приштина Цинцари&f=false

So, Perrot - in 1855 - got the number of Prishtina residents right (!) but his "ethnic Greeks" were largely Serbs (Slavs) who were Orthodox or Greek Christians. It is possible that Greek was used at this time in the Orthodox churches in Prishtina, while some clergy and Orthodox traders utilized Greek (perhaps the language of the marketplace).

That was easy. The point/question is this:

If educated westerners were incorrectly classifying people as 'Greek' as late as 1855, what hope do we have of knowing (accepting) with certainty many other reports from Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Peloponnese, Crete, etc.? Even the (widespread) use of Greek does not give us a lot of confidence to conclude anything, as these people were likely speaking a "different language at home". So, when other testimonies talk about "Albanians and Greeks in the Peloponnese", "Albanians and Greeks in Athens", etc. we simply don't know what to make of the "Greek part" until we dig deeper into the sources (if we are fortunate enough to uncover them).
 
Dionysios Pyrros, Venice 1810

"You may never want to call yourself Romaioi, but Hellenes, because the Romaioi, that is, the Romanoi, barbarized and made Greece (their?) home. And if you have a new name that is Roman, Jewish, Russian, Arabic, you must change it to a Hellenic name, namely Miltiades, Themistocles, Achilles, Theseus, Alexander, Plato, Demosthenes, etc..."

[Romaioi = Romanoi = Romans]

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Poslednja izmena:
VENIZELOS (Famous Greek Statesman - Prime Minister: 1910-1920, 1932)
By Herbert Adams Gibbons, Ph.D

HOUGHTON MIFFLIN COMPANY - 1920

[At The Peace Conferance]

Page 346: ...Venizelos advanced the famous theory of national consciousness as the test of nationality... "One may be temped", he said, "to raise the objection that a substantial portion of the Greek population uses ALBANIAN as its mother tongue, and is, consequently, in all probability, of Albanian orgin"
 
URL:
https://journals.openedition.org/balkanologie/2342

"Thus, “Greeks” and “Greek merchants” were employed to connote mostly Eastern Orthodox traders from the Ottoman Empire in both central Europe and southern Russia. Similarly, often designations such as “Greek” and “Bulgarian” reflected more divisions of labor (merchants and peasants) and social stratifications than ethnicity or language (As Popović has suggested: «Amongst the farmers in Srem every merchant is called Greek be it Serb, German, Jew». Popović (Dušan J.), O Cincarima. Prilozi pitanju postanka našeg građanskog društva [On the Cincars. Contributions to the Issue of the Origins of Our Civil Society], 1927 (consulted ed. : Beograd : Prometej, 2000, p. 111) ; Stoianovich (Traian), art.cit., pp. 234-313 ; Livanios (Dimitris), « The Quest for Hellenism : Religion, Nationalism, and Collective Identities in Greece (1453-1913) », The Historical Review/La Revue Historique, 3, 2006, pp. 46-47.)."
 
Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer (1790-1861).

Focusing on the Albanians/Arvanites, this is how Fallmerayer described the Peloponnese/Morea in the 19th century:

i) If the many colonies of Albanian immigrants had already exchanged their native tongue for modern Greek, as their predecessors, the Slavs, had done, and as could have happened over the centuries, the opponents of my theory of Albanian migration covering all of new Greece would have had an easier time of it refusing to believe me, because the new arrivals, comrades in religion and governance of the Greek-speakers, did not have the same destructive influence on place names, as did the Slavs. Phrantzes asserts: “Half of Peloponnese land was actually occupied by the Albanians at that time and they attempted to get the other half, too, both by force of arms and by negotiation with Sultan Mehmed II.” In the works of Chalkokondylas, Spandugino and Phrantzes, or similarly concerning the Slavic occupation of the Peloponnese in Evagrius, Constantine Porphyrogenetus, the Scholiast of Strabo and Patriarch Nicholas, the above-mentioned scholars would only come up with the same old explanations, i.e. that “these are merely assertions of a general nature that must be treated with caution when applied; they are assertions that reflect more a lack of knowledge or imprecision on the part of the writer than truth and exactitude.” Unfortunately for the friends of ancient Greek cause, gentle folk they may be, though not particularly astute, the inhabitants of the Academy of Plato and of all of Attica, of Boeotia, Megara, Corinth, Argolis, Hydra, Spetzia, Phlius and the interior of the Morea, have preserved the customs, language and clothing of their native land to the present day. However, if we take a look solely at the Peloponnese, no one would accept that the martial advance of the Albanians through the peninsula at the time of Cantacuzene simply came to a stop and consisted merely of a few small units of men or a few mercenaries who left their families at home. Once curious piece of information is preserved in the funeral oration of Theodor Palaeologus, the successor of Cantacuzene in Mistra (1380-1407), that shows just how continuously and massively the Albanians flooded across the isthmus: “Ten thousand Illyrians, i.e. Albanians, were given residence in the Peloponnese by Theodor Palaeologus, and these ten thousand men brought their women and children, their possessions and animals with them.”

If one considers that all the families of Albanians who arrived in the Morea during the rule of Manuel Cantacuzene and Theodor Palaeologus, in the province of Mistra. i.e. in the Eurotas valley, had to be accommodated in southeastern Arcadia, Tsakonia and the towards Argolis, it is easy to see that the districts inhabited by Slavs and, on the east side, apparently by some remnants of the ancient Greeks, were largely empty. And if one considers that before and during these events there was a time when there were less than 150,000 people in the whole of the Peloponnese, one can easily comprehend how limited the knowledge of the philosopher Plethon in the fifteenth century was, who refused to accept any substantial alteration in the population of the Peloponnese. The same is can be said of his successors in the present day, at least in this part of the world.

ii) Nerio had empty villages, fallow fields, many enemies and no soldiers. The Albanians were on the lookout for land, war and booty.

iii) Several years later, the adventuresome Castellan of Corinth gained control over most of the lands of the Parea that were plunged into war and subject to Sicilian influence, and spread Albanian colonies to Attica and Boeotia where this people still resides pure and unmixed with others. With the exception of some villages in Boeotia and the cities of Thebes and Athens where the population during the last uprising was a mixture of people from all regions, Albanian blood is dominant and is most prevalent in the lower classes. At the present time, Athens, the capital of the new kingdom, is more Albanian than it was during the uprising because, after the expulsion of the much-hated and feared Ottomans, the Albanian population abandoned the countryside in great numbers and settled in the city.
 
Aleksandar Makedonski nije bio Grk, nego Makedonac.

Grci imaju najbogatiju istoriju? Pa zasto onda kradu tudju?

Grcka kolevka demokratije? Pa zasto onda ne priznaju manjine?
Spartanski Kralj Arhidam je, tokom Peloponeskog rata, ubijao druge Grke (Atinjane). Čini li ga to... Peloponezcem? Odvaja li ga to od njegove matice?
Ne baš...

Kako kradu tuđu? Čiju to istoriju kradu?
Makedonsku? Pa... da bi ukrali makedonsku istoriju, Makedonija (ova današnja) prvo mora da je ima. A Grci, niti bilo ko drugi, nisu zainteresovani da vam preotku Kiru Gligorova i Ljubčeta Boškovskog.
A današnja Makedonija nema nikakve veze sa Antičkom. Niti kroz jezik, niti kroz teritoriju (teritorija današnje Makedonije se u doba Aleksandra nazivala Pejonija.

Ne priznaju manjine?
Ti misliš da je drevna Atina, kolevka demokratija, u korenima uspostavljanja iste imala sistem manjinskih prava? :hahaha:
U ostalom, Grčka je država Grka. Imaju pravo da svoju zemlju urede kako oni žele - na to ne treba da budu zavidne pojedine komšijske zemlje.
 
Stari Grci su mit. To je sve srpska evropska istorija pokradena.
Grcki jezik ima vece lingvisticke govorne i azbucne nedostatke, sto je nemoguce za narod jezik visoke civilizacije. Istina o grckom jeziku je da je to mlad jezik i tezak izolat.
Makedonci su Srbi i govore jednom verzijom srpskog jezika, u svim vremenskim periodima, oduvek.

http://www.spc.rs/files/u5/2010/Petalas_.jpg

"Ovaj katalog nikako ne smatramo iscrpnim. Takav poduhvat bi bio nemoguc, posto Grcka drzava kao sto smo rekli, vec skoro dva veka sistematski brise "strane" toponime, cak i kad su oni stari i oko 1500 godina."

 
Minojci i Raseni (etrurci) su i genetski i lingvisticki stari Srbi.

despite the various suggestions about the ethnicity of the creators of linear a writing system, e.g. luwians, Phoenicians, greeks, etc, the peculiar aspects of the Minoan culture show strongest connection with the cultures of the oldest inhabitants of the Balkans, the Thraco-Pelasgians. This is supported by the amazing similarities between the early Cretan scripts, pottery and toponyms with corresponding scripts, pottery and toponyms of ancient Thrace. The Thracians were identified as Slavs in later times. The Slavic character of the Minoan words documented in hT 13 is unmistakable, because all they have clear Slavic etymology. The likelihood of the Slavic character is also supported by the recent genetic research.

http://www.korenine.si/zborniki/zbornik09/seraf_ht13.pdf
 
We learn from Tacitus that even in his time the race of Athenians was extinct:
"Now Cneius Piso, hurrying to the execution of his purposes, terrified the city of Athens by a tempestuous entry, and reproached them in a severe speech, with oblique censure of Germanicus, that, debasing the dignity of the Roman name, he had paid excessive court, not to the Athenians, by so many slaughters long since extinct, but to the then mixed scum of nations there"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=9h...QGvqbyDAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Pausanias tells us that Corinth was no longer inhabited by any of the old Corinthians during Roman times:
"Corinth is no longer inhabited by any of the old Corinthians, but by colonists sent out by the Romans"……(Pausanias 2.1.2).

[We have an 11th century testimony which states that “Sikyon is in the country of VLACHIA IN HELLAS” (= Σικυών εστιν η χώρα των Ελλαδικών Βλάχων). Sikyon is in the Corinth region - the capital Corinth which Roman settlers rebuilt and dwelt in. From the language of these Corinthian "Vlachs" came abundant Vlach place names of the Peloponnese, one example being Mounte Skouve.

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Ancient Athens was a radically multicultural and multiethnic society

Athens and Persia in the Fifth Century BC: A Study in Cultural Receptivity, By Margaret C. Miller

https://books.google.ca/books?id=oG...DAA#v=onepage&q=foreign slaves Athens&f=false

Some keypoints - pages 81 to 84:
- Pritchett concluded from his study of the Attic Stelai that at least 70 per cent of all slaves in Attica were foreign barbaroi who derived from the east and north-east rather than the west.
- There is good evidence of the use of barbaroi as nurses and paidagogoi in wealthy households, like the Thracian nurse on an Athenian loutrophoros and Alkibiades' Thracian paidagogos.
- Table 3.1 presents and lists the Ethnic distribution of foreign slaves in Attica (there are slaves from Thrace, Scythia, Kolchis, Kappadokia, Paphlagonia, Phrygia, Lydia, Karia, Syria, Persia, Arabia). From analysis of evidence, Ehrenberg concluded that Lydian and Phrygian slaves predominated, but Table 3.1 suggests rather that in addition to Phrygians, Thracians and Karians rather than Lydians were most numerous.
- By the second half of the fifth century, Athens and the Peiraieus had become a home to many metics of non-Greek origin, including a population of Egyptians.
- There existed a 'Little Phrygia' in the immediate vicinity of Athens.
- All the new cults known came from the same countries whose products and slaves were imported into Attica. Thrace, the major exporter of slaves, sent Bendis, known in Attic red-figure in the 440s and already incorporated into the Athenian cult structure by 429/8. Adonis came to Athens by the third quarter of the fifth century. Phrygia sent Sabazios (who was also Thracian).
- How can we explain the introduction and growth of foreign cults in the fifth century other than through the existence of a population of non-Greek metics?

Communities and Networks in the Ancient Greek World, edited by Claire Taylor, Kostas Vlassopoulos

https://books.google.ca/books?id=d6...DAC#v=onepage&q=foreign slaves Athens&f=false

Keypoints (pages 129, 133, 136-7, 139, 141):
- Athens of the classical period, that is the fifth and fourth centuries BCE, was a slave society. There were more slaves than adult male citizens, quite possibly several times as many. A large majority of these slaves seem to have been imported from non-Greek societies, from a wide variety of different places, with many coming from Thrace and the coast of Asia Minor.
- Rosivach argues that almost all slaves in Athens were non-Greeks.
- Non-Greek slaves made up the vast majority of slaves at Athens.
- Inscriptions reveal that Phoenicians in Athens sometimes used names representing Greek translations of Phoenician theophoric originals.
- Menander (fr. 877) depicts a Thracian, presumably a slave in Athens, boasting of his origins:

"All Thracians, and especially we Getae - for I myself proudly claim to be of that tribe - are not terribly self-controlled......"

- In Menander's Aspis (205-8) another slave makes the ironic comment that "I am a Phrygian. Many things that appear noble to you Athenians seem shocking to me - and converse is true".
 
Arvaniti - Atika

1836, Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer:
"Unfortunately for the friends of ancient Greek cause, gentle folk they may be, though not particularly astute, the inhabitants of the Academy of Plato and of all of Attica, of Boeotia, Megara, Corinth, Argolis, Hydra, Spetzia, Phlius and the interior of the Morea, have preserved the customs, language and clothing of their native land to the present day."
 
Poslednja izmena:
1) The term Koutsovlachs that is used by scholars since the past century and which very often has a humiliating character, is related to "Kioutsouk Vlachia" as the Turks called Aetolia-Akarnania (Little Vlachia). This entire region was an area with majority Vlach-speakers until the years of Cosmas of Aetolia (Epigram of Evgeniou Etolou).

3) Rigas, Georgakis Olympios, Yiannis Pharmakis, Hatzipetros, Vlahavei, all the benefactors except Sigron, Zappas, Averof, Sinas, Spiridon Lambrou, Papagos, Svolos, Kristallis and many others were of Vlach origin. Another aspect of the newly established Hellenic Republic that is not well known is that many modern artists are of Vlach origin like Koutsomitis, Prokovas, Papatakis, Tsitsanis, Virvos, Kaldaras, Mitropanos, Sgouros, etc.
 
1878 - DELVINO district all residents are Albanians: 38,700 inhabitants all Albanians, Christians and Muslims

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The Turkish traveler Evliya Çelebi visited Delvinë/Delvino around 1670 and gave some information about the city in his travel book. He reported that in the Middle Ages Delvinë was in the hands of the Spanish and later the Venetians. Çelebi also observed that during this time, all the inhabitants of Delvinë spoke the Albanian language while having no knowledge of the Greek language. (Dankoff & Elsie. Evliya Çelebi in Albania and Adjacent Regions. 2000. p. 61. "The inhabitants all speak Albanian and do not know Greek.")
 
Kavontoritikos (Arvanitikos) - South Euboea

Kavontoro is the southernmost cape, as well as the entire southeastern part of Euboea, where this rhythmic, layered, lively circular dance originated in 2/4 meter, a key piece of the local repertoire. The Kavontoritikos was played by the instruments of the region's oldest tradition, the tsampuna - probably associated with the Arvanite communities.

https://www.domnasamiou.gr/?i=portal.el.songs&id=246
 

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