Иво једног истраживања ширења Р1а хаплогрупе, у коме је учествовао и рауски академик Животовски, којеи је и развио коришћену методологију.
Овде је процена да је М 458, на западном Балкану присутна од пре 5000 - 7500 г. (Приморац је био део тима).
Подсећам да је, применом исте методологије, за пет од 109 узорака из српске популације, старос процењена на 14000г. И бугарска истраживања потазују велику старост.
Треба имамти на уму да вишеструке миграције, вештачки повећавају старост.
У сваком случају нема говора о 1300 година.
З 280 је, код нас, већ млађа.
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n4/full/ejhg2009194a.html
Komentar, iz Srbije, sa jednog drugog, poznatog nam, foruma
"We can be conservative and ignore all new researches. We can say science no longer has anything new to say. We can stay in the belief that I2a2 and R1a came to the Balkan 1,500 years ago with Slavs and deny new findings.
But science is progressing. You can see Regueiro et al. (2012) claim about Balkan I2a2 9,000 years ago. And in the debate that I had with Sparkley we reduced for 3x claims these authors. Results is I2a2 in the Balkans is 3,000 years ago. It is much earlier than Slavic expansion.
For R1a things are more apparent. R1a in the Balkans is very very old. You know a lot of authors have claimed, not only Regueiro et al. Probably from all today's haplogroups in the Balkans R1a is the oldest. And Regueiro et al. find only 5,8% R1a-M458 among Serbs, versus older 14,8%.
You can see that R1a is very stable in the Balkans. All Balkan populations have a share R1a, in fairly equal measure. Understandably, Croats and Slovenes have the most (due to the movements of Slavs), but every Balkan population has. R1a came in three big waves in the Balkans, first wave was a long long time ago, estimates of different scientists ranging from 20,000 years to 7,000 years.
Today, who says that R1a came to the Balkans first time with Slavs in the 5th century is similar as to say that atoms are the smallest known particles, that no new elements after Mendeleyev or that planets in Solar systems are the only planets in the Universe. But science has advanced and we know that this is no longer true.
For me it is interesting to find out to which haplogroups belonged the members of old Balkan cultures, for example people who created the culture at Lepen Whirl, eastern Serbia (peak about 7,000 years ago). Skeletons of these people has been saved and probably it is possible to determine haplogroups (I started thread on it).
Also Vincha culture (Serbia, Romania) who had early period (7,500-6,800 years ago) and late period (6,800-6,200 years ago). Researches of this kind will surely be performed and we see results."
Još jedan zanimljiv rad. Opet nemamo Srbe iz Srbije, ali imamo "bosanske Srbe".
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947100/
"Differently from the earlier discussed Hgs, I-M423 represents the southeast European autochthonous clade of I-P37.2. Its distribution reaches Anatolia, where, however, it is only sporadically observed (2.6%, updated from Rootsi et al23). Also, virtually, all the I-P37.2* paragroup members identified in this survey harbouring the peculiar DYS388-15 trinucleotide repeat motif (not observed in any other Hg I clade) likely represent a new rare P37.2 sub-clade. Their distribution (Supplementary Table S1) and the associated YSTR variation age of ∼4000 years (Table 1) suggest that they expanded demographically, perhaps from central European regions during the Bronze Age. In this scenario, the only I-P37.2* chromosome observed in Albania, not characterized by the unusual DYS388-15 repeat motif marker, could either represent the consequence of a reversion event back to the ancestral allele or be a rare representative of the ancestral P37.2 state.
The network of the STR haplotypes identified in 222 Y chromosomes belonging to the I-M423 Hg (Supplementary Figure S1) is
characterized by a star-like shape centred on the most frequent and diffused haplotype that is present in all Balkan populations. The marginal positions occupied by the three Turkish chromosomes are in agreement with a recent gene flow. The age of accumulated microsatellite variation associated with Hg I-M423 (Table 1) dates to around 8000 years ago (Early Holocene). Thus, although Hgs G and J mark the successful colonization and subsequent demic expansions of Neolithic pioneers to these regions, consistent with a wave of advance,19, 65 the widespread adoption of farming by Mesolithic hunter-gatherers in the Balkans and Central Europe is recorded in the autochthonous Hg I-M423.
These data indicate the complex interactions between farmers and foragers rather than the large-scale replacement of hunter-gatherers by pioneering agriculturalists during the spread from the Neolithic to the southeast Europe. The data also indicate that I-M423 and probably also E-V13 representatives would have been well established in the Balkans before the arrival of a nucleus of pioneering agriculturalists."
Pogledajde u I-M423 tru Turčina iz Konje.
Haplogroup (N) Age of microsatellite variationa ±SEb (ky) Mean variancea
I-P37*-DYS388-15 (28) 4.0±1.7 0.107
I-M423 (219) 7.8±2.3 0.198
E-V13 (92) 5.9±1.7 0.155
J-M410* (23) 15.8±3.8 0.410
J-M67 (42) 11.0±2.4 0.287
J-M67* (32) 11.2±2.9 0.298
J-M92 (10) 7.0±1.9 0.187
J-DYS445-6 (10) 7.7±2.6 0.164
J-M12 (51) 7.4±1.4 0.191
J-M12/102* (15) 12.3±2.7 0.332
J-M241 (34) 4.8±1.3 0.121
Expansion of E-V13 and I-M423 from the Balkans
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/12/expansion-of-e-v13-and-i-m423-from.html
"The most interesting aspect of this paper is that it supports a European rather than Middle Eastern origin of E-V13 and I-M243 based on an analysis of relative Y-STR variance. However, the age estimates presented in this paper are based on the infamous "evolutionary mutation rate", and are thus suspect. What appears as "Mesolithic" using the wrong mutation rate is actually Bronze Age, although with hefty confidence intervals."
Šteta što ovde nemao i Srbe iiz Srbije.
Evo istraživanja srpske populacije iz 2012.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037811191200073X#gr4c
Šteta što "zvezda" nije free.
