Etničko porijeklo Albanaca

Nesto vise o ovim tradicijama? (Citati?)
1929, Глиша Елезовић

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Gledam neki klip o Kosovskoj bici na jutjub a sekcija sa komentarima puna Siptara koji se upinju da objasne da to nije bio sukob Srba i Otomana vec "svih balkanskih naroda".

Covek lepo opisao bitku izmedju Srba i Turaka kako jeste i onda masa uspaljenih mitomana bukvalno zatrpa celu sekciju sa komentarima koji veze sa mozgom nemaju.
Oni su toliko optereceni nasom istorijom, nekad se pitam imaju li neku svoju , bas svoju veliku bitku, veliku licnost da o njima prica ceo svet.
 
Oni nemaju nista svoje, sve sto znaju je da kradu, lazu i preuvelicavaju. Agresivni su i zatrovani mrznjom prema ostalim balkanskim narodima a narocito Srbima. Dovoljno je videti jednu sekciju sa komentarima na jutjubu da ti sve bude jasno. Kolicina idiotizma koju taj narod poseduje je nesto neverovatno.
 
Gledam neki klip o Kosovskoj bici na jutjub a sekcija sa komentarima puna Siptara koji se upinju da objasne da to nije bio sukob Srba i Otomana vec "svih balkanskih naroda".

Covek lepo opisao bitku izmedju Srba i Turaka kako jeste i onda masa uspaljenih mitomana bukvalno zatrpa celu sekciju sa komentarima koji veze sa mozgom nemaju.
Oni su toliko optereceni nasom istorijom, nekad se pitam imaju li neku svoju , bas svoju veliku bitku, veliku licnost da o njima prica ceo svet.
Pitaj Slavena. :lol:
 
Lexical cleansing: Slavic toponyms in Albania (or out of?)

URL:
https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/...ng-Slavic-toponyms-in-Albania-or-out-of-47472

At first people in Albania thought it was a joke, but politicians in that country have proposed the creation of a government commission to "Albanize" all place names of Slavic origin...and there are many of those. A commentary

01/12/2009 - Marjola Rukaj

Since Kosovo's declaration of independence, Albanian politicians appear to have gained popularity by coloring their talk with patriotism in an attempt to increase ratings rendered vulnerable by the country's serious political and economic problems. Patriotism has become the lens through which issues like public works, economic initiatives, debates on history, and identity are viewed. Over the last few months, that rhetoric has led to the increasingly common suggestion that Albanian toponymy should be "de-Slavized."

Current president Bamir Topi first mentioned the idea during a routine visit to a village in the country's northeast. At first, it seemed like a simple gaffe made by a president who lacked better speech ideas for a minor event. But a few months later, Prime Minister Berisha also mentioned Slavic toponymy. Berisha, discussing the issue in one of his new government's first meetings, did not hesitate to take the idea further. "We have to create a commission to replace all the Slavic toponymy in the country with corresponding Albanian toponyms originating before the Slavic invasion," Berisha said.

At the same time Berisha mentioned the issue of Slavic toponyms, the Albanian government was discussing the need for mandatory Albanian names for all licensed private ventures and enterprises in the country. The Prime Minister suggested that a commission be created to go through the names and apply censorship as needed. In that sense, Berisha went even further with a proposal to "Albanize" all place names in the country.

The stance, while not new, comes unexpectedly and is difficult to understand. The widespread Slavic toponyms, found all over Albania's territory, have always been a concern for Albanian nationalist intellectuals. These Slavic place names undermine a thesis crucial to the legitamacy of the Albanian nation-state and the basis of the country's nationalism: the story of Illyrian-Albanian indigenousness.

What is more, the prime minister's statement derives from a common thesis found in Albanian classical nationalism according to which the abundance of Slavic toponyms across present-day Albania is a result of past invasions by neighboring states' and their repression of Albanian territory.

The valid view of the Albanian nationalist politicians and intellectuals is that the Slavic toponymy in Albanian lands was imposed by ethnic Slavic rulers who, at different times, dominated this part of the Balkans. This view assumes that Albanians were an indigenous people, continuously present without interruption, who were constant victims of waves of migration of other Balkan peoples. This view, in response to neighboring nationalisms, attempts to firmly exclude the presence of the Slavic population on Albanian territory.

In order to reconcile history with the existence of the present-day Albanian nation, this particular presentation of Albanian history depicts the Albanians as static and ethnically and culturally unchanged over time.

But the issue is very complex. Albanian territory is so crammed with Slavic place names that non-Slavic place names, such as those of Albano-phone, Greek, Turkish , and Italian origin, seem like a tiny minority.

Even Prime Minister Berisha's idea to form a commission to create Albanian place names seems like a huge and costly initiative, not to mention being out of order and ridiculous on account of its primitive eighteenth-century nationalism. But for the time being Greek place names in southern Albania, Turkish ones in other regions, and Latin and Italian ones along the coast do not seem to be a source of concern.

Albanians were indifferent to the proposal and did not debate it. The only retort came from some journalists who ironically suggested that the Prime Minister should start the place name de-Slavization process in his own village of birth, Viçidol. The Albanian bloggosphere greeted the news with excitement. Albanian bloggers consider the "Albanization" of the toponymy a necessary measure, pointing to policies enacted by other various newly-founded nation-states.

The practice of renaming places is not new in Albania. Enver Hoxha's national-communism made many attempts at de-Slavization, particularly in the southeast regions of the country. Even the family names of the Slav-speaking minority were Albanized, their typical endings replaced by more Albanian-sounding, "Illyrian" endings. Some Slavic family names were fully replaced by Albanian names. The mechanism at present does not seem very different from that of the Hoxha regime. National-communism interpreted the Albanian past according to its own criteria and moulded national identity.

The fact that the issue of Slavic place names has resurfaced, even today, contradicts the Albanian government's continuous international declarations that Albania wants good relations with its neighbors. It is also an indicator of the typical way in which Albanian nationalist rhetoric cultivates a sense of victimhood and paints Albania's neighbors as continuously creeping in on Albanian territory.

But the issue extends beyond Albanian territory. It is worse in the youngest Balkan state of Kosovo where the replacement of Slavic toponyms with Albanian ones - in the tradition of one of the oldest instruments of nation-building - has been carried out. Villages and regions were renamed and the name of the new republic was also an issue. The country's former leader, Ibrahim Rugova, had proposed renaming the country after an ancient Illyrian region: "Dardania."

Given the great problems facing Albanian political establishment and the relatively minor importance of toponymy, few take the Prime Minister's initiative seriously. Certainly the message Berisha's statements send to the media does nothing but exacerbate the cliché of Albanian nationalism.
 
Study from the 1950's: Every Albanian family in Skopje has a migration background

URL:
https://history-from-macedonia.blogspot.com/2020/08/study-from-50s-every-albanian-family-in.html


The Macedonian newspaper Nova Makedonija with an article about the research of Dr. Jovan Trifunoski, who conducted research in Skopje and the surrounding area in the early 1950s (described in the text as Skopsko Pole = Skopje Valley). He came to the conclusion that there is not a single Albanian family in the valley that does not have a migration background. In short, the Albanians once immigrated to Macedonia.

Trifunovski researched further and came to the conclusion that most Albanians even know where they came from, who their ancestors are who immigrated to Macedonia and even the migration routes, i.e. possible intermediate stops of the family before they finally reached Macedonia, could be reproduced by themselves.
 
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Обилић у Скадру

Откуд Обилић у Скадру?

На слици се налази професор српске школе “Обилић” у Скадру са својим ученицима. Професор и ученици су Срби, Срби који су рођени и живели у Скадру. Слика је настала 1925. године. Ова школа радила је до 1935. године када је укида албански краљ Зогу као и све остало што има везе са Србима.

Многи људи не знају да је цела област северне Албаније вековима припадала српском народу, да се на том простору налазе бројне српске светиње које су данас махом католичке, да Албанци закопавају тврђаве са ћириличним натписима. И не само то, и данас у Албанији живи више хиљада људи православне и муслиманске вероисповести који себе сматрају Србима. Ови људи, у 21. веку, у Европи са никад “већим” правима, немају права да се изјасне као Срби.
 
εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα Ἀλβανίας· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα τῶν Κρεβατάδων, ἤγουν τὸν λεγόμενον Κρεβατᾶν· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα Κηδωνίας· εἰς τοὺς ἄρχοντας Τζαναρίας· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα τοῦ Σαρβᾶν, οἵτινες κεῖνται μέσον Ἀλανίας καὶ Τζαναρίας· εἰς τοὺς ἄρχοντας Ἀζίας, ἐν ᾧ εἰσιν αἱ Κασπεῖαι πύλαι· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα Χρύσα· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα Βρέζαν· εἰς τὸν ἄρχοντα Μωκᾶν. (ἰστέον, ὅτι ἀπὸ Μωκᾶν ἐστιν ἡ Μαιώτης λίμην.) ἐπιγραφὴ εἰς πάντας τοὺς προειρημένους· "κέλευσις ἐκ τῶν φιλοχρίστων δεσποτῶν πρὸς ὁ δεῖνα τὸν ἄρχοντα τῆσδε."

Владару Албаније. Владару Кребатада, који се називају Кребатанима. Владару Кедоније. Владару Цанарије. Владару Сарбана, који се налазе између Аланије и Цанарије. Владарима Азије, код Каспијских врата. Владару Хриса. Влдару Брезана. Владару Мока — према томе, Мокима код којх почиње језеро Мајотида. Запис свима њима иде овако: „заповед од христољубивих господара том и том владару тог и тог места.“

Ова теорија се слабо изучава имамо Кребатане (Хрвате) , Сарбане према Ал Масудију племе Сирбин имамо архонта Албаније.
Имамо Сарботе и архонта црне деце некад звани Сираци , да су Сарбани и Сарботи били исти народ почетком ере доказао је Жупанић али Сарботи су очували свој сирски идентитет. Њих Тацит спомиње и на тлу Италије до Босфора где су Римљани ратовали са Суебима , Сирацима и Аорсима на Босфору.

Оно што је Јанковић приметио да у 10. веку постоје 4 Србије па је дао предлог да су или Ромеји преселили неке групе са Кавказа јер су га донекле контролисали у време најезде Арапа ако нису период за овакве сеобе је био једино могућ пре велике сеобе народа ге је етноним онда старији много од 7 века.
Оно што упада у очи писма свим аронтима на Кавкази у Балкану Србији Хрватској , Моравији , Захумљу , Паганији , Коновали...
ахонт Албанаца на Кавказу нема никаквог архонта Албаније на Балкану у 10. веку.
 
Sorin Paliga o poreklu Albanaca (2014):

One more detail, hopefully relevant: the Albanians are also the heirs of those Sclaveni of the 6th century, as proved by ethnonym shqipe 'Albanian‘, shqip (adj.), see a more detailed discussion in Paliga and Teodor 2009: 80-84. To add here the brief discussion in the etymological dictionary of Albanian by Vladimir Orel (1998). Other research in the field also proves what we wrote in Paliga and Teodor 2009, but also earlier: Alb. Shqipe, Shqiptar etc. also reflects a late, post-classical form sclavus, a variant *skljab being reconstructable for Albanian. Orel (1998: 434) assumes that shqipe would be a calque after the Slavic parallel slověne ‗Slavs‘ as derived from slovo ‗word‘, in Albanian shqipoj ‗to speak clearly = to speak in our language‘ – Shqipe, Shqiptar. Thus put, the whole issue has no sense. It is not the first and last time when speakers of a given language associate ‗speaking in their own language‘ with the idea ‗to speak clearly‘, i.e. ‗to speak in a language we can understand‘. That was the motivation of the parallel slověne – slovo, also magyar ‗Hungarian‘ – magyaráz(ni) ‗to speak clearly‘ (= to speak in our langue), shqipe ‗Albanian‘ – shqipoj ‗to speak clearly‘ etc. Therefore, the parallel shqipe – shqipoj cannot be based on a calque, this is difficult to reconstruct at a popular level in those times or later; this is an internal, logical derivation based on the obvious and frequently attested reality ‗ours speak a language we can understand‘ versus ‗the others, who speak a language we cannot understand‘ = they are dumb (cf. Slavic něm- ‗dumb‘ used for referring to the němьcь, lit. ‗the dumb ones‘) or speak with a stutter (cf. Greek barbaros, lit. ‗those who stutter‘) etc. Such extralinguistic realities make part of a correct interpretation of the facts, too.

The Albanians are, therefore, another ‗Sclavenic group‘, but – we cannot be very far from reality – of Thracian origin, most probably of Carpian origin, as I. I. Russu brilliantly suggested as early as 1982. Unfortunately, it was difficult to have a serious debate of his hypothesis in those days1 . They moved NEXT TO the Slavs proprie dictu, but not melting into their groups. This proves that the FIRST Slavic move occurred indeed from north to south following the courses of Siret and Prut rivers, then crossing the Danube. Perhaps the Proto-Albanians preceded the Slavic movement, this explaining why they settled in the remotest location, beyond the extremity of the southwest Slavs. They were also Sclaveni, post-classical colloquial form sclavi > Romanian șchiau, șchei, Albanian shqipe. For the Byzantines, they were Sclaveni, Sklavenoi, the new enemies coming from the north. We may be sure that, at the beginning at least, the Byzantines made no linguistic difference between the Proto-Albanians and the rest of the Sclaveni, they were all foreign enemies. disregarding the language they spoke.

In the preface of his work, Orel (1998: X) assumes that the Albanian homeland may be located in Dacia Ripensis, specifically the Beskydy, Polish Bieszczady mountains. The Proto‑ Albanians had, beyond any doubt, a more northern origin, and we cannot hesitate to assume a homeland beyond the Danube. It is yet impossible to accept the area suggested by Orel, as there is no archaeological proof or any other reasonable proof, of any kind, allowing to accept the Beskydy as the Proto-Albanian homeland. The obvious similarities between Romanian and Albanian, but also the differences, show that there must have been a vicinity, which must have been, precisely, the Moldavian plain and the East Carpathians, with intrusions in the Transylvanian plateau after the Roman withdrawal in 274. This location does indeed make sense, and is supported by all the documents regarding the ‗Carpian issue‘ after the Roman conquest of Dacia in 105-106.

http://www.romanoslavica.ro/revista/46.4. de toate.pdf

Paliga je pristalica severnobalkanske (balkanokarpatske, zadunavske) teorije o poreklu Albanaca. Suprotstavljajući se Orelovim hipotezama o Beskidima, ali na ragu njegovih razmišljanja, Paliga praiskonsko područje protoalbanskog jezika vidi u moldavskoj ravnici, iza istočnih Karpata; u Erdelj ulaze prilikom rimskog povlačenja 274. godine naše ere.

Njihovo poreklo vezuje konkretno za Karpe.

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Прво DalmatinacHR, већ сам ти скренуо пажњу да је недопустиво на птф историја отворити тему само видео прилогом без пратећег уводног поста. Или си безобразан или се правиш мутавим.

Друго, елементарна пристојност налаже да се поштује правилник форума. Који скреће пажњу форумашима да не дуплирају теме. Ову тему, Etničko porijeklo Albanaca имамо већ на првој страници. Да си само бацио поглед, примијетио би одмах да тема већ постоји. Модератор ће објединити теме, али и форумаши ако већ узимају учешћа на форуму, морају разумјети да форум није само ради њих.

Треће, све што је наведено у видеу, већ је приложено и приказано на теми, и то не уопштено и површно као у видеу, већ темељитије и детаљније гдје су разграђене гране, подгране и слојеви хаплогрупа присутних код данашњих Албанаца.
 

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