Da li je hriscanski radjati djecu?

[picololeone]

 

[Dionys]

Luka 14,26
"Dođe li tko k meni, a ne mrzi svog oca i majku, ženu i djecu, braću i sestre, pa i sam svoj život, ne može biti moj učenik!"
Matej 10:35...

''Jer sam došao da rastavim čoveka od oca njegovog i kćer od matere njene i snahu od svekrve njene. Jer covjekovi neprijatelji bice ukucani njegovi.''
Matej 10:37...
'' Koji ljubi oca ili mater većma nego mene, nije mene dostojan; i koji ljubi sina ili kćer većma nego mene, nije mene dostojan.''
A posebno mi je zanimljiv jedan stih iz starog zaveta...
Matej 19,29
I tko god ostavi kuće, ili braću, ili sestre, ili oca, ili majku, ili ženu, ili djecu, ili polja poradi imena mojega, stostruko će primiti i život vječni baštiniti.

 

[Сале]

Luka 14,26
"Dođe li tko k meni, a ne mrzi svog oca i majku, ženu i djecu, braću i sestre, pa i sam svoj život, ne može biti moj učenik!"
Matej 10:35...

''Jer sam došao da rastavim čoveka od oca njegovog i kćer od matere njene i snahu od svekrve njene. Jer covjekovi neprijatelji bice ukucani njegovi.''
Matej 10:37...
'' Koji ljubi oca ili mater većma nego mene, nije mene dostojan; i koji ljubi sina ili kćer većma nego mene, nije mene dostojan.''
A posebno mi je zanimljiv jedan stih iz starog zaveta...
Matej 19,29
I tko god ostavi kuće, ili braću, ili sestre, ili oca, ili majku, ili ženu, ili djecu, ili polja poradi imena mojega, stostruko će primiti i život vječni baštiniti.

tesko da je to iz starog zaveta

Matej 19
27. Тада одговори Петар и рече Му: Ето ми смо оставили све и за Тобом идемо; шта ће дакле бити нама?

28. А Исус рече им: Заиста вам кажем да ћете ви који идете за мном, у другом рођењу, кад седе Син човечији на престолу славе своје, сешћете и ви на дванаест престола и судити над дванаест колена Израиљевих.

29. И сваки, који остави куће, или браћу, или сестре, или оца, или матер, или жену, или децу, или земљу, имена мог ради, примиће сто пута онолико, и добиће живот вечни.

kome se obracao isus u ovom slucaju?

 

[Dionys]

Sigurno ovim razvratnim bezobraznicima sto djuskaju po diskacima svako za sebe. Jer Isus je bio taj rebel bez razloga, pa je valjda on sluzio kao uzor hipicima, prostitutkama, razbojnicima, jer im je on svima oprostio onako pausalno i njihovo stanje je nazvao "nepravdom", a ne pokvarenoscu i slaboscu, sto to u sustini i jeste. Njima je obecan "drugi zivot" ako napuste ovaj, samo sto se niko nije mogao nadati da ce i oni sto su prije toga bili normalni da napuse ovaj zivot. Sad se svi bune protiv necega, a nema vise ni protiv cega, jer moral i autoritet vise ne postoje.

Zanimljivo je, ima dokumentarac na youtube o istoriji seksa, da je danasnja seksualnost potekla direktno od prostitutki. I neka mi neko nadje jednu jedinu srecnu porodicu bilo gdje, cim bi je i pronasli, odmah bi ih unesrecili i opadali kao "zastarjele", "dosadne", itd. Bitno je biti drzak, raspustan i pokvaren, to je danas idealno, ali bas to je hriscanski.

 

[gost 305754]

Sigurno ovim razvratnim bezobraznicima sto djuskaju po diskacima svako za sebe. Jer Isus je bio taj rebel bez razloga, pa je valjda on sluzio kao uzor hipicima, prostitutkama, razbojnicima, jer im je on svima oprostio onako pausalno i njihovo stanje je nazvao "nepravdom", a ne pokvarenoscu i slaboscu, sto to u sustini i jeste. Njima je obecan "drugi zivot" ako napuste ovaj, samo sto se niko nije mogao nadati da ce i oni sto su prije toga bili normalni da napuse ovaj zivot. Sad se svi bune protiv necega, a nema vise ni protiv cega, jer moral i autoritet vise ne postoje.

Zanimljivo je, ima dokumentarac na youtube o istoriji seksa, da je danasnja seksualnost potekla direktno od prostitutki. I neka mi neko nadje jednu jedinu srecnu porodicu bilo gdje, cim bi je i pronasli, odmah bi ih unesrecili i opadali kao "zastarjele", "dosadne", itd. Bitno je biti drzak, raspustan i pokvaren, to je danas idealno, ali bas to je hriscanski.

 

[Сале]

Sigurno ovim razvratnim bezobraznicima sto djuskaju po diskacima svako za sebe. Jer Isus je bio taj rebel bez razloga, pa je valjda on sluzio kao uzor hipicima, prostitutkama, razbojnicima, jer im je on svima oprostio onako pausalno i njihovo stanje je nazvao "nepravdom", a ne pokvarenoscu i slaboscu, sto to u sustini i jeste. Njima je obecan "drugi zivot" ako napuste ovaj, samo sto se niko nije mogao nadati da ce i oni sto su prije toga bili normalni da napuse ovaj zivot. Sad se svi bune protiv necega, a nema vise ni protiv cega, jer moral i autoritet vise ne postoje.

Zanimljivo je, ima dokumentarac na youtube o istoriji seksa, da je danasnja seksualnost potekla direktno od prostitutki. I neka mi neko nadje jednu jedinu srecnu porodicu bilo gdje, cim bi je i pronasli, odmah bi ih unesrecili i opadali kao "zastarjele", "dosadne", itd. Bitno je biti drzak, raspustan i pokvaren, to je danas idealno, ali bas to je hriscanski.

njima a i tebi i meni je dao sansu da se ponovo rodimo.

 

[Kamael]

Kako da ne, kotite se i mnozite... a kakav je odnos prema zemlji? Na istu se gleda sa prokletstvom i naziva se gresnom.Jos jedna od mora nebuloza.

Danas ljudi ima toliko da sama zemlja ne moze vise podneti svakodnevni genocid i silovanje koji se nad njom radi.Preko 30% sume je unisteno.

 

[Dionys]

Renan, MA, Celsus and Lucian
The population of Galilee, as the name indicates, was very mixed. This province reckoned amongst its inhabitants, in the time of Jesus, many who were not Jews (Phoenicians, Syrians, Arabs, and even Greeks). The conversions to Judaism were not rare in mixed countries like this. It is therefore impossible to raise any question of race here, or to try to discover what blood flowed in the veins of him who has most of any contributed to efface the distinctions of blood in humanity.
Celsus believes that every nation has its gods, who protect it in proportion as it adores them as they wish to be adored. To abandon its gods is, for a nation, the equivalent of suicide.
The mother of Jesus had committed adultery with the soldier, Pantherus; she had been rejected by her husband, the carpenter.

“Jews and Christians present to me the effect of a lot of field mice or pismires leaving their hole, or frogs settled in a marsh, or worms in the corner of a ditch . . . . . and saying among themselves: ‘It is to us that God reveals and announces everything; he has no concern for the rest of the world; he leaves the heavens and the earth to roll on at their own fancy, to occupy himself with us alone. We are the only beings with whom he communicates by his messengers, the only ones with whom he desires to have society, for he has made us like himself. Everything is subordinated to us, the earth, the water, the air, and the stars, all has been done for us and destined for our service, and it is because it has so happened that certain among us have sinned that God himself will come or will send his own Son to burn up the wicked, but to make us enjoy eternal life with him.’”

What hurt him[Celsus] was the extreme social meanness of the Christians, and the small intelligence of the means by which they exercised their propaganda; those whom they wished to gain were base people—slaves, women, and children. Like charlatans, they avoided as much as they could honest people who would not allow themselves to be deceived, taking into their nets the ignorant and the foolish, the ordinary provender of knaves.

“What harm is it then to be well educated, to love fine learning, to be wise, and to pass for such? Is that an obstacle to the knowledge of God? Are they not rather helps to attain to the truth? What are these fair-runners, these jugglers doing? Do they address themselves to men of sense, to tell them their good news? No, but if they see somewhere a group of children, of street porters, or low people, it is there they ply their industry and cause themselves to be admired. It is the same way inside families; here are some wool-carders, some shoemakers, some fullers, some people of the lowest ignorance, and quite destitute of education. Before masters, men of experience and judgment, they dare not open their mouths; but if they surprise the children of the house, or women who have no more reason than themselves, they set themselves to work wonders. Only such can believe; the father and the preceptors are fools who do not know the true good and are incapable of understanding it. Those preachers alone know how they ought to live; the children are found following them, and through them good fortune will come to all the family. If while they are speaking some serious person, one of the preceptors, or the father himself, come in unexpectedly, the more timid keep silence; the bolder are not allowed to excite the children to shake off the yoke, insinuating in a low voice what they would not say before their father or preceptor, so as not to expose themselves to the brutality of those corrupted people who would chastise them. Those who want to know the truth have only to brave the father and preceptors, and go with the women and brats to their part of the house, or to the bootmakers’ stall, or the
fullers’ shop, to understand the absolute! See how they act to gain converts.... Whoever is a sinner, whoever is without understanding, whoever is weak in mind, in a word whoever is miserable, let him draw near; the kingdom of God is for him.”

“What harm is there in being free from sin? Let the unjust, they say, humble himself by the feeling of his misery, and God will receive him. But if the righteous, trusting in his virtue, raises his eyes towards God, what! will he be rejected? Conscientious magistrates do not suffer the accused to melt into lamentations, lest they should be seduced into sacrificing justice to pity. God, in his judgments, is then accessible to flattery? Why has he such a preference for sinners? . . . Did these theories come from the desire of drawing around him a more numerous clientèle? Will it be said that it is proposed by this indulgence to improve the sinners? What an illusion! The nature of people does not change; the bad are not improved either by force or gentleness. Would God not be unjust it he showed himself complaisant to sinners, who know the art of affecting him, and if he abandon the good, who have not the talent for that?”

Celsus would have no bounty extended to false humility, to importunity, to humble prayers. His God is the God of noble and right minds, not the God of pardon, the consoler of the afflicted, the patron of the wretched. He evidently sees a great danger, from the point of view of politics and also from the point of view of his profession as a man of public instruction, that it should be permissible to say that, to be dear to God, it is good to have been guilty, and that the humble, the poor, and the minds without culture have because of this special advantages.

One is a Jew by birth; one is a Christian by choice.

“They refuse to observe the public ceremonies and to render homage to those who preside; then they renounce also the wearing of the manly robe, marriage, becoming fathers, or filling the functions of life; let them go forth altogether far from here, without leaving the least seed of themselves, and that the earth may be disembarrassed of their breed! But if they would marry, if they would have children, if they would share in the things of life, good as well as evil, it is proper that they should render to those who are charged with administering everything the proper honours. . . . We ought continually, both in word and action, and even when we do not speak or act, to have our souls raised towards God. This being granted, what harm is there in seeking the good of those who have received this power from God, and specially that of the kings r.nd the powerful of the earth? It is, indeed, not without the intervention of a divine energy that they have been raised to the rank they occupy.”

“A power more enlightened and far-seeing,” he said to them, “will destroy you root and branch, rather than perish itself through you.”

In the second half of the second century, we really only see a single man who, being above all superstition, had a good right to smile at all human follies, and to pity them likewise. That man, that mind, at once the most solid and the most charming of his age, was Lucian. Here there is more ambiguity. Lucian absolutely rejected the supernatural. Celsus admits all religions; Lucian denies them all. Celsus thinks he is conscientiously bound to study Christianity up to its sources; Lucian, who anticipates what it will lead to, takes up a very superficial notion of it. His ideal is Demonax, who, quite unlike Celsus, made no sacrifices,nor initiated himself into any mystery, had no other religion than gaiety and universal benevolence.

This entire difference in the point of departure made Lucian to be less at a distance from the Christians than Celsus. He who had the best right of any one to be severe as to the supernatural
shows himself, on the contrary, at times indulgent enough to them. Like the Christians, Lucian is a demolisher of Paganism, a subject resigned, but not loving, to Rome.
Never was there any disquieted patriotism with him, or a single one of those anxieties for the State which devoured his friend Celsus. his laugh is like that of Peres, his diasyrnios made a chorus to that of Hermias. lie spoke of the immorality of the gods, of the contradiction of the philosophers, almost like Tatian. His ideal city singularly resembled a church. The Christians and he were allied in the same war, war against local superstitions, goëtes, oracles, and thaumaturges.
It seemed, indeed, that he had thought often of them(Christians) in tracing, in the Fugitives, that picture of a society of Bohemianism, impudent, ignorant, and insolent, raising a real tribute under the name of alms, austere in words, in reality debauchés, seducers of women, enemies of the Muses, people of pale face and shaven heads, parties in shameful orgies.

what would the sage[Lucian] do in the middle of the war of religions and systems? To abstain, to smile, to preach tolerance, humanity, benevolence without pretension, that is to render a simple
service to poor humanity. The radical remedy is that of Epicurus, who destroyed at a blow religion, and its object and the evil it brings with it. Lucian appears to us like a wise man wandered in a world of fools. He hates nothing, he laughs at everything, serious virtue excepted.
But at the time when we stop this history men of this kind become rare; they may be counted. The true thinker was in some sort an isolated being, badly seen, and obliged to dissimulate. We produce with horror the history of a certain Euphronius, an obdurate Epicurean.
The overthrow of good sense was accomplished. The delicate railleries of Lucian, the just criticisms of Celsus, fell only as powerless protests. In one generation man in entering life shall have no other choice than that of superstition, and soon even that choice he shall have no longer.

 

[dejannn]

cito ja bibliju, i tamo pise da je zemlja stara 6000 godinina a naucnici kazu da je stara 6 000 000 000 godina, nesto u toj bibliji nepije vodu,

 

[gost 305754]

cito ja bibliju, i tamo pise da je zemlja stara 6000 godinina a naucnici kazu da je stara 6 000 000 000 godina, nesto u toj bibliji nepije vodu,

ne pije citanje,nigde ne pise da je stara 7000 godina,citaj ponovo.....inace metode datiranja koje se danas primenjuju su bas prezicne pa ti verovatno one piju vodu...

 

[Сале]

Kako da ne, kotite se i mnozite... a kakav je odnos prema zemlji? Na istu se gleda sa prokletstvom i naziva se gresnom.Jos jedna od mora nebuloza.

Danas ljudi ima toliko da sama zemlja ne moze vise podneti svakodnevni genocid i silovanje koji se nad njom radi.Preko 30% sume je unisteno.

naziva je prokletom onaj zloduh sto ne moze da slusa vapaj sirotinje.
zato ti puni glavu da nas ima puno

 

[Сале]

cito ja bibliju, i tamo pise da je zemlja stara 6000 godinina a naucnici kazu da je stara 6 000 000 000 godina, nesto u toj bibliji nepije vodu,

sta si ti cito to sam bog zna, al kad ovako nesto napises, sigurno je da nisi cito

 

[hogarius]

sta si ti cito to sam bog zna, al kad ovako nesto napises, sigurno je da nisi cito

Ako saberes sve u Bibliji navedene generacije od Adama pa do Jeshue, dodje mu da je tvoj bog zemlju stvorio pre negde oko 6 do 7 hiljada godina. Dakle, metode naucnog datiranja su sasvim izvesno tacnije nego biblijska nabrojana pokolenja.

Ako gresim, ti ces me ispraviti argumentima, zar ne.

 

[Сале]

Ako saberes sve u Bibliji navedene generacije od Adama pa do Jeshue, dodje mu da je tvoj bog zemlju stvorio pre negde oko 6 do 7 hiljada godina. Dakle, metode naucnog datiranja su sasvim izvesno tacnije nego biblijska nabrojana pokolenja.

Ako gresim, ti ces me ispraviti argumentima, zar ne.

dejannn je rekao da je ZEMLJA stara 6000 god a ne nastanak coveka, a ko je racunao u bibliji ja ne znam i ne znam da li uopste moze da se izracuna.
mnogi nesto racunaju pa se zeznu u proracunu

 

[gost 305754]

Ako saberes sve u Bibliji navedene generacije od Adama pa do Jeshue, dodje mu da je tvoj bog zemlju stvorio pre negde oko 6 do 7 hiljada godina. Dakle, metode naucnog datiranja su sasvim izvesno tacnije nego biblijska nabrojana pokolenja.

Ako gresim, ti ces me ispraviti argumentima, zar ne.

tako samo prolupali protestanti racunaju i shvataju dan kao nas dan od 24 h..tek cetvrtog dana je stvoreno sunce i mesec a sedmi dan nema ni pocetak ni kraj tako da ta prica koja dolazi sa zapada nema bas utemeljenje na bibliji

 

[Sizif]

tako samo prolupali protestanti racunaju i shvataju dan kao nas dan od 24 h..tek cetvrtog dana je stvoreno sunce i mesec a sedmi dan nema ni pocetak ni kraj tako da ta prica koja dolazi sa zapada nema bas utemeljenje na bibliji

Verovatnija je varijanta da priča o stvaranju nema baš utemeljenje na zdravom razumu (pogotovo ne danas) - pa je neko morao da bude kreativan i smišlja dane koji traju milion godina, i slične logičke akrobacije kako bi opravdao mitologiju i jednu očigledno izmišljenu priču....

 

[gost 305754]

Verovatnija je varijanta da priča o stvaranju nema baš utemeljenje na zdravom razumu (pogotovo ne danas) - pa je neko morao da bude kreativan i smišlja dane koji traju milion godina, i slične logičke akrobacije kako bi opravdao mitologiju i jednu očigledno izmišljenu priču....

ma sta mi naprica a da si produkt explozije i da si nastao u priskonskoj supi ni sam ne znas kako onda mutacijom evoluirao od bakterije do coveka je zdrav razum.... biblija govori da postoji superiorni um koji je ovo stvorio nacin na koji je to stvorio se ne zna niti je detaljno opisan samo znamo da je covek vrhunac tvoreviine.....
ako hoces o izmisljotinama da pricamo onda bolje da pricamo o teoriji evolucije jer vecu bajku covecanstvo nikada nije ni izmislilo....

 

[Sizif]

ma sta mi naprica a da si produkt explozije i da si nastao u priskonskoj supi

Ne znam, mislim da si me sa nekim pomešao. Nikada ja nisam rekao da sam 100% siguran da sam nastao u primordijalnoj supi... da li je tu supu neko "začinio", da li smo došli na repu komete, ili nas je išmrkalo veliko zeleno čudovište - ja to ne mogu da znam, a ni ti.

Jedino što znam 100% - to je da nismo nastali tako što nas je dokoni avramski bog napravio u trenucima dosade za 7 dana.

Dakle, sve što ti znaš o kosmogoniji, abiogenezi i evoluciji - bazira se na jednoj lošoj knjizi napisanoj od strane bliskoistočnih pastira, prepunoj incesta, robova, nepravde, medveda koji ubijaju decu, i kojekavih drugih nebuloza. Ne mogu sebi da dozvolim da učim samo iz jedne knjige za koju ne znam ni ko joj je autor, i to samo zato što sam rođen na geografskim koordinatama gde je ta knjiga popularna. Ti da si rođen u Teheranu, sa istim žarom bi branio priču o tome kako je Muhamed na krilatom konju leteo do raja, jer odaješ utisak da si prosto taki čo'ek. (što je takođe OK, jer ne treba istina svima, neki dobro žive i bez nje)

Ni jedan čovek ne bi smeo da prihvati nikakve "definitivne" odgovore, bili oni naučni ili kakvi drugi. Jedini pravi put je stalno traganje.

 

[gost 305754]

Ne znam, mislim da si me sa nekim pomešao. Nikada ja nisam rekao da sam 100% siguran da sam nastao u primordijalnoj supi... da li je tu supu neko "začinio", da li smo došli na repu komete, ili nas je išmrkalo veliko zeleno čudovište - ja to ne mogu da znam, a ni ti.

Jedino što znam 100% - to je da nismo nastali tako što nas je dokoni avramski bog napravio u trenucima dosade za 7 dana.

Dakle, sve što ti znaš o kosmogoniji, abiogenezi i evoluciji - bazira se na jednoj lošoj knjizi napisanoj od strane bliskoistočnih pastira, prepunoj incesta, robova, nepravde, medveda koji ubijaju decu, i kojekavih drugih nebuloza. Ne mogu sebi da dozvolim da učim samo iz jedne knjige za koju ne znam ni ko joj je autor, i to samo zato što sam rođen na geografskim koordinatama gde je ta knjiga popularna. Ti da si rođen u Teheranu, sa istim žarom bi branio priču o tome kako je Muhamed na krilatom konju leteo do raja, jer odaješ utisak da si prosto taki čo'ek. (što je takođe OK, jer ne treba istina svima, neki dobro žive i bez nje)

Ni jedan čovek ne bi smeo da prihvati nikakve "definitivne" odgovore, bili oni naučni ili kakvi drugi. Jedini pravi put je stalno traganje.

Slazem ovo sto si napisao verovatno bi bilo tako ali recimo meni niko nikad nije pricao o Bogu od roditelja,nismo cak ni slavu slavili ..Boga u kuci niko nije pominjao ali kada sama video u sta se ljudi pretvaraju gde nema Boga shvatio sam sta je odustvo Boga...i onda sam ga otkrio u sebi.....
Kada odem u prirodu i vidim svu tu lepotu koja lepsa nego bilo sta sto ce covek ikada moci da napravi....vidim stvoritelja..ali to je moj licni pogled..

 

[gost 133940]

Slazem ovo sto si napisao verovatno bi bilo tako ali recimo meni niko nikad nije pricao o Bogu od roditelja,nismo cak ni slavu slavili ..Boga u kuci niko nije pominjao ali kada sama video u sta se ljudi pretvaraju gde nema Boga shvatio sam sta je odustvo Boga...i onda sam ga otkrio u sebi...

Ukratko, tvoja familija je bila to mesto gde nema boga pa si ti ispao takav...

 

[gost 305754]

Ukratko, tvoja familija je bila to mesto gde nema boga pa si ti ispao takav...

ukratko ja delujem na okruzenje a ne ono na mene

 

[gost 133940]

ukratko ja delujem na okruzenje a ne ono na mene

Većina ekološki problematičnih postrojenja ima tu osobinu. Industrija celuloze, klanice...

 

[gost 305754]

Većina ekološki problematičnih postrojenja ima tu osobinu...

lepo je kad prepoznajes sopstvene mane

 

[gost 133940]

lepo je kad prepoznajes sopstvene mane

Patiš od disleksije.

 

[gost 305754]

Patiš od disleksije.

smesan si..ali bicu tolerantan na tvoju prozaicnost