Teorija Evolucije - komentari

stanje
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Mali_Oglasi:
Prvo dokazi su na mestu,a ti si bas sav praktican... Sto citiras bibliju a ne verujes ni u ono sto pises? Samo nemoj ti nista da spremas...
Ovde smo da komentarisemo evoluciju.. Znaci ako ne verujes u to sto su evolucionisti rekli, da su puzevi nastali od crva, sto je toliko branis?

prijatelju, ocigledno si malo glup za ovu materiju, pa te molim da zaobidjes citavu temu...

Astral-Blade:
Реци ми о којој мапи говориш, па да се зачудим.

hehhe
prvo ti meni reci na koju mapu mislis...

Astral-Blade:
Па о томе се и ради што су ти цртежи дуги стотинама метара, а не умањене верзије и што немаш представу шта црташ, осим ако не посматраш све са велике висине,

kada crtas uvecan objekat na zemlji, potrebno ti je OSNOVNO znanje iz geometrije....i uopste ti nije potrebno da ga posmatras sa velike visine.
pogledaj samo ljude koji prave krugove u kukuruzu....bukvalno - stap, kanap...

Astral-Blade:
Наградно питање гласи, ко се то и зашто "цимао" да дође на овај локалитет и остави трајне записе у њему, попут каквог споменика.

onaj koji je verovao u bogove.
bogovi dolaze sa neba, logicno je njima crtati takve crteze,,,,

Astral-Blade:
Не причамо о запремини или материјалу од којег је израђен, него о стабилности која је максимално могућа за неки пловећи објекат узимајући у обзир његове пропорције. Опет случајност?

vidis, moramo da pricamo o materijalu i to je sustinsko.
zasto? zato sto toliki drveni brod (a to je tada dostupan materijal) NE MOZE da izdrzi sopstvenu tezinu. to je cinjenica koju ne mozes da poreknes pa da se usadis na glavu.
 
Dobro i sta sad? Kada nemas sta da kazes ti se vredjas... Ovoj gluposti nikad kraja... Kao sto rekoh demantovao si velike evolucioniste koji su se prikazivali na B92... Sto bih izmislio onakvu glupost??? Mada mislim da evolucionisticka teorija jeste najveca glupost... Odatle i one glupe ideje... A ti sto je prihvatas i prihvatas to da su po toj teoriji puzevi nastali od valjkastih crva i NA koji nacin... A poso i sam vidis da je glupost, ubacujes novu ideju na neki nacin u evoluciju...
Ko si ti da menjas neke teorije? Mislim daj filozofe, necu vise da pricam sa tobom, kada nemas sta da kazes vredjas se...
OBRAZLOZENJE ZA SVE! Lepo sam citirao Puzevi su nastali od valjkastih crva zato sto im se nagomilavala hrana na ledjima... Ako prihvatas ovu glupost, kao sto je prihvatas, ja nemam sta da pricam ovde vise

Udahni ti malo, obrisi penu oko usta pa sedi i napisi nesto pametno.

" Nothing Says "Early Earth Was Cool" Like World's Oldest Diamonds
The zircon in imitation diamonds proves the best way to preserve more than four-billion-year-old versions of the real thing
By David Biello

Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old, but her early eons were tempestuous. Not even rock survives from the first 500 million years of her life—an eon known as the Hadean—because geologists speculate the planet's surface boiled and bubbled with molten lava under a steady bombardment of comets and meteorites. But tiny diamonds discovered in antediluvian zircon crystals sprinkled in three-billion-year old rocks from Australia hint that the planet's surface fire might have ceased much earlier than previously believed.

Mineralogy graduate student Martina Menneken of the Westfälische Wilhelms–University of Münster in Germany and her colleagues probed 1,000 of these ancient zircon crystals for inclusions—tiny outcroppings of other minerals hidden in the unusually stable lattice. They discovered diamonds of different shapes and sizes in 45 of the old crystals by using a laser technique called Raman spectroscopy.


"The biggest [diamond] we found was about 60 microns [(roughly 0.002 inches, or 35 times smaller than the head of a pin)] but some only were about seven microns," Menneken says. But their sizes or shapes notwithstanding, all of the diamonds are unique, she adds, because they come from zircon grains that can be dated (via the decay of uranium impurities into lead) to as long ago as 4.25 billion years, a scant 250 million years after Earth formed.

Zircon crystals can form in a number of ways—on the moon, for example, the mineral crystallizes in the wake of a meteorite impact. But some geologists suspect, based on minerals and oxygen isotope levels in the current grains, that they crystallized in an ancient crust that formed from cooling granite magmas. Yet diamonds only form when high pressure squeezes graphite into exquisite clarity—more than 45,000 bars of pressure only found at depths of 100 kilometers (62 miles) or more below the surface.


Image: THORSTEN GEISLER AND ALEXANDER A. NEMCHIN
MICROSCOPIC BLING: The largest of the world's oldest diamonds, bigger than the few micrometers version pictured here nestled inside its zircon case, is still 35 times smaller than the head of a pin.
"Options are shock, bolide [meteorite] impact or burial" for how the diamonds formed, says geologist Ian Williams of The Australian National University in Canberra. "The key question is whether the zircon grew around the diamonds or the diamonds grew in the zircons."

Because zircon crystals can survive even the dissolution of their host rock by weathering, it is possible that the grains formed in the surface rock, which then disappeared below newer surface rock before resurfacing as their latter hosts' outer layers wore away. The researchers are searching for other signs of the history of these grains, such as coesite, a dense form of silicon dioxide created under similar pressure. "We might have had coesite that is totally transformed to quartz now," which is relatively common in the grains, Menneken says. Because coesite is "not stable at surface conditions."

"According to our findings, probably the early Earth might have been a quiet, cool, habitable place," Menneken says. But more research is needed to say for sure, she notes, such as studies of the carbon isotopes and nitrogen content of the diamonds to determine how long the little gems experienced extreme pressures and temperatures.

"A likely explanation is that the diamonds were formed from graphite inclusions in the zircons during an event when the zircons were buried. If that was so, then the burial must have postdated the youngest zircon in which a diamond was found, about 3.1 [billion years ago]," Williams says. But "if the zircons grew around diamonds as early as 4.2 billion years ago, this implies that there was a very thick crust on the Earth by that time." And that means the early Earth may have cooled sufficiently for a host of other adornments, including life."

A evo ti jos malo da se igras recima jer koliko primecujem da umes samo da umisljas sto se drasticno razlikuje od reci RAZMISLJAS.


" Nine fossilised teeth found in Ethiopia are from a previously unknown species of great ape, Nature journal reports.

The 10 million-year-old fossils belong to an animal that has been named Chororapithecus abyssinicus by an Ethiopian-Japanese team.

This new species could be a direct ancestor of living African great apes, say the researchers.

The finds from the Afar rift, in eastern Ethiopia, raise questions on current theories of human evolution.

The researchers say the fossils from Ethiopia probably belonged to an ape from the gorilla family.

Evolutionary divide

Based on genetic evidence, gorillas and humans were thought to have split away from a common ancestor about eight million years ago.

The 10-million-year age of the fossils led the research team to suggest that the split must have happened earlier than 10.5 million years ago.

If correct, molecular and DNA studies will need to be revisited.


The fossils were found at a site in eastern Ethiopia's Afar rift
The team's claims that the teeth belong to a member of the gorilla family stem from similarities with teeth of modern gorillas.

They carried out cutting-edge 3D analysis of the molar tooth's structure and found that both gorillas and the new species had a unique specialisation for eating fibrous foodstuffs such as stems and leaves.

"It's a subtle distinction, but we've compared it with everything we could think of," said Dr Suwa from the University of Tokyo and a member of the research team.

"And it does show some telling signs of gorilla-like molar structure. If it's not a gorilla relative, then it's something very similar to what an early gorilla must have looked like."

Vegetarian tastes

Gorillas are unique among modern and fossil large-bodied apes in having molars that are specialised for shredding fibrous vegetation. The reason for this is that large-bodied gorillas depend on stems and leaves as an important part of their diet.

Not everyone agrees with the team's conclusions, however. Professor Peter Andrews, from London's Natural History Museum, commented: "It is stretching the evidence to base a time scale for the evolution of the great apes on this new fossil."

Professor Andrews believes the structures found on the teeth could be related to the diet of the animal.

He added: "These structures appear on at least three independent lineages of apes, including gorillas, and they could relate to a dietary shift rather than indicating a new genetic trait."

Fossil record

What is not in doubt is that the find itself is impressive.

"The ancestry of humans is increasingly well known, but the fossil evidence for the evolution of our closest living relatives, the great apes, is almost non-existent," Professor Andrews explained.

"It is really exciting therefore to find a fossil ape from this time period - about 10 million years ago - since there is only one other fossil ape known from this time, the more complete Samburupithecus."

The find also supports data that suggests Africa was the origin of both humans and modern African apes.

The teeth were discovered in a region that is about 170km (110 miles) east of Addis Ababa.

In an area of the Oromiya National Regional State, there are exposed patches of sediments that are 10 to 11 million years old, putting them in the Miocene Epoch. Hence, they are known as Miocene Chorora Formation.

The name of the ape is taken from the geological formation Chorora and the former name of Ethiopia, Abyssinia.



"
 
Signs of recent evolution by natural selection are widespread across the human genome, experts say.

Genome researchers at the University of Chicago have identified more than 700 regions in human DNA where apparently strong selection has occurred, driving the spread of genes linked to a broad range of characteristics.

These are very recent events—within the past ten thousand years," said Jonathan Pritchard, a geneticist whose laboratory team conducted the study.

The results suggest that humans in different regions have continued to adapt in numerous ways to both environmental changes and cultural innovations.

Many of the genetic changes Pritchard's group detected came during or after the emergence of agriculture, beginning about 10,000 years ago, and long after the formation of modern human populations.

Some of the genes most strongly affected by selection were those associated with skin color, bone structure, and the metabolism of different foods.

Using newly available data, the scientists conducted a genome-wide scan for genetic variants showing evidence of recent selection in European, Asian, and African populations.

Most of the selected genes varied strongly among the three groups, suggesting that humans were adapting to pressures specific to different parts of the world.

The results are published in this month's issue of the journal PLoS Biology.

Changing World, Changing Genes

Positive selection occurs when a specific gene gives its carriers some advantage over others who lack the gene.

The methods used by Pritchard's group detected apparently beneficial genes that have spread through a large portion of the population but are not yet universal.

The findings, along with other recent studies, begin to provide a kind of genetic narrative of recent human evolution.

Joshua Akey, a genetics researcher at the University of Washington in Seattle, says selection-driven changes recorded in the genome provide tantalizing clues about past challenges faced by humans.

Recent human history was a time of rapid change in population size, diet, pathogen exposure, and culture," Akey said.

"These are all potentially strong selective forces, which Dr. Pritchard and his colleagues appear to have captured in their analysis."

For example, major changes in diet occurred as nomadic hunter-gatherers slowly shifted to a settled agricultural existence.

Pritchard says this transition left a legacy of strong selection on genes associated with the processing of carbohydrates and fatty acids.

The clearest example—one previously known about by researchers—is the gene that allows for the digestion of milk into adulthood.

Among Europeans, whose ancestors relied on milk products as an important food source, this gene has become widespread. In most other human populations the gene is rare.

The study also provides new evidence that mutations to better digest different food products have spread in other groups.

Asian and African populations showed selection in genes affecting the metabolism of the plant sugars mannose and sucrose.

All three groups also showed selection for different genes involved in the uptake, storage, and energy conversion of dietary fats.

Another previously unreported example of natural selection involves the genes that people today rely on to process most pharmaceutical products.

Changes in these genes may be a legacy of human exposure to toxic plant compounds, either through a diet of wild foods or deliberate medicinal uses.

Physical Differences

Genes related to physical characteristics also showed strong evidence of selection, with interesting differences among the three populations.

"We found five different genes involved in skin pigmentation in the European population," Pritchard said.

He noted that, for humans living far from the equator, lighter skin is important for producing vitamin D, which is often formed in the body following exposure to the sun's ultraviolet rays.

Pritchard says evidence of recent pigmentation changes in Europeans may be the tail end of a much older process underway since modern humans first moved out of Africa or Asia to higher latitudes.

But the genetic changes could also be a reflection of more recent northward migrations following the last Ice Age, about 14,000 years ago, he says.

The survey also turned up evidence of selection in genes affecting skeletal development in Europeans and Asians and hair formation in Africans.

Pritchard says that while proteins involved in these processes were clearly targeted, it is still too early to say exactly why the changes occurred or what the evolutionary outcomes may have been.

Disease Selection

Evidence of different selective pressures operating on different populations may be medically important, says study lead author Benjamin Voight.

Discovering genes that contribute to common human diseases is always difficult, Voight said.

But "our hope is that the identification of selective targets using evolutionary theory might give other researchers a starting point."

Many disease-related genes should leave a strong signal of selection, because they influence individual survival.

By examining how selection has operated on different populations, researchers may be able to track down the genes underlying conditions such as diabetes, hypertension, and obesity, which vary in incidence and severity across ethnic groups.

"This research may provide the foundation for understanding how human evolutionary history has contributed to the susceptibility to complex diseases," the University of Washington's Akey said.

"Genome-wide scans for selection are not an end but rather an exciting beginning."



Jel ti ovo dovoljno???


A sad ja tebe pitam, posto ja nisam gledao tu emisiju o puzevima, mozes li mi detaljno objasniti zasto to neko rekao i na kakvim dokazima se zasniva ta tvrdnja. Nemoj molim te meni da se ponasas kao jedan nezreli klinja sa odgovorima tipa, zato sto je glupost zato sto ne znaju sta rade zato sto lazu. Ako si i malo razumeo zasto je on to rekao onda mi objasni sta to zaista znaci i daj mi dokaze i objasnjenje koje je on dao. Lepo pokazi da si ti razumeo zaista to sto si gledao i da sa tobom vredi ovde pricati.
 
Astral-Blade:
Што се Пиријеве карте тиче, обрати пажњу на оно повеће острво на самом дну мапе приказано тамнијом бојом. Сад узми и погледај савремену мапу Антарктика и оно велико острво у заливу јужно од Веделовог мора. Зар ти не личи да је исто острво у питању?
To ce pre biti Foklandska ostrva.

Шта није у реду са Финеусовом мапом http://xoomer.alice.it/dicuoghi/Piri_Reis/Finaeus_eng.htm Јасно се виде планине, реке, естуари, а приказани континент запањујуће личи на савремену мапу Антарктика.
Lici. Ali samo lici i samo je plod maste autora na osnovu nekih poznatih detalja kao i vecina drugih starih prikaza Antarktika.


Ево је мапа Француза Буаша из 18. века са приказом копнених маса Антрактика кад је овај био потпуно ослобођен леда, за разлику од ових претходних мапа где је лед већ знатно покрио унутрашњост континента http://xoomer.alice.it/dicuoghi/Piri_Reis/Buache_eng.htm
Na tom linku imas i objasnjenje koje je dao sam Buas na mapi. Kaze da postoje dve verzije mape sa i bez tada mitskog juznog kontinenta Terra Australis.
 
Roots of Science Hatred

Adults may resist scientific facts because of childhood experiences. Yale University psychologists note that before children can even speak, they develop common-sense assumptions about the physical world that can persist into adulthood and clash with scientific discoveries. For instance, because objects fall down if not held up, kids may have trouble accepting the world is round, reasoning that things on the other side should naturally fall off. Intuitive notions concerning psychology also lead children to see everything as designed for some reason - for example, a cloud's purpose might be to rain - which can lead to opposition to evolution. In reporting their work in the May 18 Science, the researchers also note that when both adults and kids obtain knowledge from others, they judge claims based on how much they trust the source of an assertion. It suggests that science will meet exaggerated resistence in societies where alternative views are championed by trustworthy authorities.
 
Astral-Blade:
Ма какве црне промене, мислиш еволутивне :rolleyes: Од тога нема ништа, него ће већина људи помрети, то је бар јасно, али за то смо сами криви због тотално неодговорног понашања према животној средини коју свакодневно уништавамо и трујемо. И друга ствар, људи се нездраво хране и уопште нездраво живе одвојени од природе за коју су створени и предвиђени и умиру ко зечеви од кардиоваскуларних и малигних болести. Ето ти "адаптације" на делу. Јесте, могућа је твојој деци, ако се удаш за црнца :) , а на бајке и измишљотине о еволуцији заборави, тако нешто не постоји.


Ja bih pre rekao aklimatizacija, i to na fizioloskom nivou, pre nego adaptacija ako pricamo o promenama zivotne sredine u toku nasih zivota. A ti Astral kao i vecina antievolucionista ne shvatate bas tacno sta je evolucija. Ti si ovde upravo naveo nesto sto moze biti pocetni korak evolucije. Kako se tokom stotina i hiljada godina (generacija) temperatura povecala (ne drasticno jer bi nas to ubilo na ovaj ili onaj nacin) tako su bele zene cesce birale da radjaju decu sa crncima ne zato sto su one svesno razmisljale da su crna deca bolje prilagodjena toploti nego zato sto su bela deca slabije prezivljavala i bila iznurena toplotom dok su crna deca narastala u stasite i razvijene mladice koji su danima trcali po suncu da svojoj dragoj donesu cvece.

Naravno ovde je slucaj samo o selekciji vec posotjece osobine (seta osobina) koja omogucava bolje prezivljavanje u datim uslovima. Ako se tu doda da bi ti crnci (njihova deca) mogli da razviju jos neku osobinu (citaj da im se osobina javi putem mutacije) onda je to potpuna evolucija.
 
Zašto se raspravljati sa nekim ko veruje u astrologiju, teorije zavere? To je kao slepcu objašnjavati razliku između crno-bele i kolor fotografije.... on prosto ne može da pojmi takve činjenice, jer je njegov um neprilagođen.
 
dollar MC:
Jedna zabluda zamenjena drugom. Meni je to isto ;)
То је мислио и астроном Едмонд Халеј када је подсмешљиво добацио Исаку Њутну да превише симпатише астрологију, а овај му је одговорио: "Колега, не смејте се, ја сам ствар проучавао, ви нисте" 8-) Мени нешто говори да ниси ни ти :wink:
 
stanje
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