Генетичка генеалогија II

Y днк узорака раних Мађара.

https://i.ibb.co/ZSgC94g/image.png

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Санџаклије које припадају роду Куча (извор: "Бошњачки ДНК пројекат").

Pogledajte prilog 737811
cek, cek, odakle im ovaj niz staroafricka, endoevropeizirana, PROTOKELTSKA, ilirska, romanizovana? to onako po njihovom tumacenju?

Kuci jesu velika misterija, slabo pratim forum Poreklo jer postoje tamo ljudi koji su iskljucivi i ogradjeni i zato nisam clan.
 
cek, cek, odakle im ovaj niz staroafricka, endoevropeizirana, PROTOKELTSKA, ilirska, romanizovana? to onako po njihovom tumacenju?

Kuci jesu velika misterija, slabo pratim forum Poreklo jer postoje tamo ljudi koji su iskljucivi i ogradjeni i zato nisam clan.

Они хаплогрупама пришивају маштовите називе. Кад уђеш кликни на Haplogrupe, свакој су дали неки назив https://bosnjackidnk.com/category/prezimena/

Такозвани бошњачки днк пројекат воде Санџаклије и велика већина тестираних су Санџаклије. Пројекат се првобитно се звао "санџачки днк пројекат", а онда су једном преко ноћи оно "санџачки" преиначили у "бошњачки."
 
Da ovo predanje koje navedes ne zabiljezi ni Erdeljanovic ni Savo Matov Martinovic.

U veljem Cucama su Bajkovici i Grepcani po predanju od Orlovica. Onda Bjelice i Bajice, imas i Bandice u Komanima, koji po predanju su iz Cuca i Samardzice koji su porijeklom iz Bajica po predanju.

S'obzirom da Pjesivci i Veljocuce imaju zajednicki J2a predak tipa prije 600 godina, a imas i Bogunovice iz Krajine koji imaju zajednicki J2a predak sa Pjesivcima i Veljocucama iz prije 800-900 godina, sigurno nije moguce.
Upadoh na ovu temu kao padobranac i sve ovo sto pricate mi zvuci kao na kineskom 🙂.Priznajem da ne razumijem ama bas nista,ali mi upade u oci ovo pominjanje Pavla Orlovica,jer sam cula da i moja porodica vodi daleko porijeklo od njega,a i slave sv.Jovana.Inace,navodno su dosli iz Grahova u Crnoj Gori.Zanima me samo,ako neko moze ukratko da mi objasni,kao nekom totalnom laiku sta sve ove haplogrupe znace zapravo?Koliko shvatih tu se istrazuje muska linija predaka.Sta je sa zenskom?
I sad kad bi neko istrazio kojih gena ima najvise,sta bi to govorilo o njemu?Da mu je neki pradeda bio crnac ili Kinez ili nesto drugo? 🙂
 
sam cula da i moja porodica vodi daleko porijeklo od njega,a i slave sv.Jovana.Inace,navodno su dosli iz Grahova u Crnoj Gori.Zanima me samo,ako neko moze ukratko da mi objasni,kao nekom totalnom laiku sta sve ove haplogrupe znace zapravo?Koliko shvatih tu se istrazuje muska linija predaka.Sta je sa zenskom?
I sad kad bi neko istrazio kojih gena ima najvise,sta bi to govorilo o njemu?Da mu je neki pradeda bio crnac ili Kinez ili nesto drugo? 🙂

Zavisi kakvo ti je prezime. Orlovicka plemena inace nijesu izvorno sa Grahova, vec Katunska Nahija - Cuce, Bjelice i Bajice. Ali postoji nekoliko familija na Grahovu koji su rodom od ovih plemena. Haplogrupa je gen koji se prenosi preko muske linije i nacin da se utvrdi ko je od kojeg plemena, da li je neko predanje tacno itd.
 
Видећемо. Да ли у Молдавији, или горе у Пољској није посебно битно, док не нађемо скелете који ће то да потврде. Пре тога су "обишли" целу Европу и вероватно негде јужно од линије Алпа преживели ледено доба. Не знамо ни којим су језиком говорили.
Za I2-Din (L621) znamo da su govorili iskljucivo slovenskim jezikom. Pretpostavlja se da je ova grana stara oko 5000 godina, medjutim izolovano je tek nekoliko semplova od kojih najstariji potice iz 9. veka.
Prosle nedelje je Reich laboratorija objavila podatak da je pronasla I2-Din DNA u ostatku iz bugarskog mesta Kazanlak a koji potice iz treceg milenijuma pre Hrista, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FNQNLQs93tmsX5_G728zE4DTIS0WUsXR

Inkedi2a_LI.jpg


Prve reakcije kazu da je verovatno u pitanju greska:D
 
Za I2-Din (L621) znamo da su govorili iskljucivo slovenskim jezikom. Pretpostavlja se da je ova grana stara oko 5000 godina, medjutim izolovano je tek nekoliko semplova od kojih najstariji potice iz 9. veka.
Prosle nedelje je Reich laboratorija objavila podatak da je pronasla I2-Din DNA u ostatku iz bugarskog mesta Kazanlak a koji potice iz treceg milenijuma pre Hrista, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FNQNLQs93tmsX5_G728zE4DTIS0WUsXR

Pogledajte prilog 757530

Prve reakcije kazu da je verovatno u pitanju greska:D
Isti izvor, novi Dinaric uzorak, ovaj put iz petog milenijuma pre Hrista, severoistocna Francuska

Inkeddin_LI.jpg
 
Kome vise verovati, strucnjacima sa Geni.com ili Poreklo.rs?

https://www.geni.com/projects/I-L621-Y-DNA/40630

The initial lack of knowledge and information was confusing and it produced (not less than) two contradicted theories about the place of origin of I-Y3120 and, particularly, its subclades Y4460, Y18331, S17250, and Z17855 which were all formed ~2100 years ago:

a) I2a1 has always been indigenous in the Balkans, and it expanded northward from there;

b) I2a1 originated somewhere in the Poland-Belarus-Ukraine triangle and came to the Balkans with the Slavs in the 6-7th century;

The debate was mostly futile, and many arguments and premises proved to be insignificant, or simply wrong. Namely, the attention was focused on the issues such as haplogroup frequency, the number of representatives, haplotype diversity, archaeological learning of the distant past…, but it turned out that these parameters were unreliable “tools” in locating the area where Y3120 subclades originated, and they were of little help in explaining their development. However, in the last few years, thanks to BigY and SNP test results, the fog has cleared, and it became evident that genetics and history complemented each other. The first thing that catches the eye of an interested person is the “I2a1 map” provided above. It unmistakably shows that the south-eastern Europe is the “source” of expansion of haplogroup I2a1 (Y3120), but it is not explicit whether it is the eastern or western Balkans. Still, the overall research and some important recent findings go in favour of the eastern side of the peninsula and the Romanian section of the Carpathian Mountains.

In either case, this is the crucial piece of information: there was no subsequent migration of I-Y4460 people (in the 6th, 7th, or later centuries) to the Balkans which could have brought the younger branches.


It is even more significant that the basal lineages of all five Y3120 subclades are found exclusively in the Balkans. (see https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y3120/, and Y4460 results at https://bosnjackidnk.com/)The subgroups Y18331, S17250-PH908, and Z17855 are also present in the same area with younger branches and many offsprings – it undoubtedly points to a spatial and temporal continuity of some 2100-2300 years.
 
Kome vise verovati, strucnjacima sa Geni.com ili Poreklo.rs?

https://www.geni.com/projects/I-L621-Y-DNA/40630

The initial lack of knowledge and information was confusing and it produced (not less than) two contradicted theories about the place of origin of I-Y3120 and, particularly, its subclades Y4460, Y18331, S17250, and Z17855 which were all formed ~2100 years ago:

a) I2a1 has always been indigenous in the Balkans, and it expanded northward from there;

b) I2a1 originated somewhere in the Poland-Belarus-Ukraine triangle and came to the Balkans with the Slavs in the 6-7th century;

The debate was mostly futile, and many arguments and premises proved to be insignificant, or simply wrong. Namely, the attention was focused on the issues such as haplogroup frequency, the number of representatives, haplotype diversity, archaeological learning of the distant past…, but it turned out that these parameters were unreliable “tools” in locating the area where Y3120 subclades originated, and they were of little help in explaining their development. However, in the last few years, thanks to BigY and SNP test results, the fog has cleared, and it became evident that genetics and history complemented each other. The first thing that catches the eye of an interested person is the “I2a1 map” provided above. It unmistakably shows that the south-eastern Europe is the “source” of expansion of haplogroup I2a1 (Y3120), but it is not explicit whether it is the eastern or western Balkans. Still, the overall research and some important recent findings go in favour of the eastern side of the peninsula and the Romanian section of the Carpathian Mountains.

In either case, this is the crucial piece of information: there was no subsequent migration of I-Y4460 people (in the 6th, 7th, or later centuries) to the Balkans which could have brought the younger branches.


It is even more significant that the basal lineages of all five Y3120 subclades are found exclusively in the Balkans. (see https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y3120/, and Y4460 results at https://bosnjackidnk.com/)The subgroups Y18331, S17250-PH908, and Z17855 are also present in the same area with younger branches and many offsprings – it undoubtedly points to a spatial and temporal continuity of some 2100-2300 years.

То је текст Жељка Мушовића.

Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP I2a1a2b (L621 … -CTS10228 -Y3120
Y-DNA Haplogroup I2a1a2b (L621 ... - CTS10228 - Y3120) , 2020
Željko Musović
https://www.academia.edu/43716527/Y_DNA_HAPLOGROUP_I2a1a2b_L621_CTS10228_Y3120

Не могу да нађем његов став о словенском језику на Балкану.
Да ли је стигао са Склавенима - Склавима, у шестом и седмом столећу, или су га домороци баштинили по балканским забитима?
 
То је текст Жељка Мушовића.

Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP I2a1a2b (L621 … -CTS10228 -Y3120
Y-DNA Haplogroup I2a1a2b (L621 ... - CTS10228 - Y3120) , 2020
Željko Musović
https://www.academia.edu/43716527/Y_DNA_HAPLOGROUP_I2a1a2b_L621_CTS10228_Y3120

Не могу да нађем његов став о словенском језику на Балкану.
Да ли је стигао са Склавенима - Склавима, у шестом и седмом столећу, или су га домороци баштинили по балканским забитима?
Ne znam da li ima stav po pitanju jezika.
Medjutim zastupa ideju da je Dinaric nastao na Balkanu. A dobro je i obavesten posto tvrdi sledece:

The latest ancient Y-DNA study (conducted by Serbian and German scientists), which has not been officially published yet, shows that there is archeogenetic evidence that I2 M423 haplogroup was present in the south-eastern Europe 1500-2000 years ago. Namely, two out of five analysed skeletons from the archaeological site known as Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis (I-V century CE, Serbia) belonged to that haplogroup. Of course, it is unknown yet if they were L161 or L621.

Naime, Reich laboratorija poseduje zanimljive nalaze sa Balkana i sprema studiju o tome koja treba da izadje uskoro...
 
Ima mana u tom predavanju.
Ovo što navodi za BiH Srbe je iz ko zna kojeg zastarelog izvora, takođe niti jedna naša E1b nema veze sa Turcima.Ne postoje nikakvi Hrvati koji su PH908, tu je apsolutno srpska stvar.

То што помиње за БиХ Србе је Марјановићево истраживање из 2005. године на узорку од само 81. Пре Христа за стандарде генетичке генеалогије.

Ево како Срби из БиХ стоје на 677 узорака https://forum.krstarica.com/threads/geneticka-genealogija-ii.809292/page-50#post-38110173

На табели "српског днк пројекта" тренутно има 760 Срба из БиХ, и проценти хаплогрупа су готово идентични као на овој статистици на 677 узорака.
 
То што помиње за БиХ Србе је Марјановићево истраживање из 2005. године на узорку од само 81. Пре Христа за стандарде генетичке генеалогије.

Ево како Срби из БиХ стоје на 677 узорака https://forum.krstarica.com/threads/geneticka-genealogija-ii.809292/page-50#post-38110173

На табели "српског днк пројекта" тренутно има 760 Срба из БиХ, и проценти хаплогрупа су готово идентични као на овој статистици на 677 узорака.
Apsolutno tačno.
Pritom naši E nemaju veze sa Turcima.
Postoje uzorci ostrogota mešanog sa Slovenom( koji je čini mi se E-V13).
Antropološki se takođe vidi da su Naši E jako dugo u našem etničkom korpusu..Razni E haplotipovi/grane su rasprostranjene svuda od severa do juga.
 
Istrazivanje na stanovnistvu Srbije iz 2017. Ukoliko se ne varam, autor sve genotipove u Srbiji vezuje za preistorijske migracije, ukljucujuci i famoznu I2a. Jedino je jedan podtip R1a dosao sa migracijama od 5-7 veka.

https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/295031

Specifically for the R1a sub-haplogroup, three major events of gene flow have been described to explain its pres- ence in the Balkans area: (i) the expansion of the R1 hap- logroup from a Ukrainian refuge (early post-LGM, ~ 20–12 KYA)68.69; Yamnaya culture migrations from the steppe region of the Caspian Sea territory in Late Neo- lithic, 4.5–3 KYA39,70–73; and, more recently, (iii) the Balto- Slavs and the massive Slavic migration (5th–7th centu- ries) 10,65,74

Furthermore, the expansion of the sub- haplogroup I2a has occurred later following the post- Younger Dryas recovery, as suggested by recent stud- ies39,73. The sub-haplogroup I2a seems to have come out of the Neolithic period for reasons that are not yet clear. In fact, the subhaplogroup I2a is by far the largest branch of I2 and the most strongly linked to Neolithic cultures in South-East, South-West and North-Western Europe.
 

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