RickRoss
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Da. testirani su neki Petrovići Njegoši i haplogrupa im je I2.
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Генетичка генеалогија II
- Začetnik teme Pumpaj Dinstanović
- Datum pokretanja
ZabranjeniLegenda
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Interesantno. Da li imas link? Da li znas gdje se nalaze testirani?
Khal Drogo
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Khal Drogo
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RickRoss
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https://www.academia.edu/34974566/Genetika_istorija_i_bajke.pdf
A i na forumu Porekla su pronašli jednog Petrovića Njegoša iz Dubrovnika koji je takođe I2.
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=568.0
gost 428502
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Brsjaci i Mijaci..Ako mene pitate Srbi.Па да, ево рецимо иста таква ношња на међуратној повељи Удружења четника.
ZabranjeniLegenda
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Koliko znam jos nijesu testirali na srpski dnk projekat Erakovice/Petrovice direktno sa Njegusa.
Stara predanja od ljudi iz drugih krajeva mogu cesto da budu pogresna.
gost 428502
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Slažem se..Samo više je to bio suživot na istom prostoru nego bukvalna integracija.
Ima predanje o toma da je Karađorđev predak prošao kroz Klimente i Vasojeviće, a da nije ni od jednih. Što se i ispostavilo kao istina.
gost 428502
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Slažem se. Najsigurnije je testirati nekog Njegoš-Petrovića.
Meni je nejasno da današnji Njeguši sebe ne smatraju Srbima, prosto tesko mi je da to shvatim.
RickRoss
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Petrovići Njegoši sa Cetinja su itekako pro srpski nastrojeni i u prijateljskim odnosima su sa Mitropolitom. Često mu i u posetu odlaze.
A u Srbiji jedinog Njeguša za kojeg znam je Dušan Proroković, a za njega sigurno znamo da je Srbin.
Khal Drogo
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Овдје имамо текст који нас води кроз историју преко 4 мапе са прегледом Y-ДНА из одабраних временских период, прва је из 7.000 год. п.н.е., друга из 2.000 год. п.н.е., трећа из 117.год. и четрвта из 1.227 године.
Maps of Europe’s ancient tribes, kingdoms and Y-DNA
by Sandra Rimmer for Ancestry - Genealogy & DNA
Another post for map fans – new maps showing snapshots of Europe’s likely dominant or notable Y-DNA haplogroups around 7000 BC, 2000 BC, 117 AD and 1227 AD.
First, a disclaimer. Human genetic history is complicated, particular in Europe, therefore the territorial lines associated with major Y-DNA haplogroups in these maps should be seen as best guesses based on current knowledge of genetics, archaeology, and history (sources below).
Y-DNA also presents just a small part of our overall genetic picture. However, because the majority of the Y-chromosome is transmitted from father to son, with small mutations in pretty much every generation, it offers a good degree of resolution on population history and movement through male-line ancestry.
**Click on the maps to view at higher resolution on your desk top**
The first map shows Europe around 7000 BC. The Ice Age had ended and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers had migrated from their refuges to recolonize the continent, including Doggerland which later submerged beneath the rising North Sea. The majority of western European males belonged to Y-haplogroup I and northeast Europeans to haplogroup R1a. Other minor male lineages such as R1b, G, J, T and E would also have been present in Europe, having migrated from the Asian Steppe, the Middle East and North Africa.
The second map shows Europe around 2000 BC. In the intervening period agriculture had developed in the Levant and then spread through southern, central and eastern Europe by Neolithic farmers belonging mainly to Y-haplogroups such as G2a, and J2. During the following Copper and Bronze Ages, Indo-European tribes (R1a and R1b) migrated westward from the Eurasian Steppe. Long-distance trading networks developed across Europe and the Atlantic Coast, which helped spread distinct cultures such as Corded Ware and Bell Beaker. In the far north, Haplogroup N1c tribes arrived in Europe from Siberia, their geographical spread aligning with the Pit–Comb Ware culture. In the Middle East and Anatolia advanced civilizations began to emerge. The civilization of Ancient Egypt rose to a peak and the pyramids would remain the tallest and largest human constructions for thousands of years. Even in western Europe megalith builders were constructing giant monuments of their own.
The third map shows Europe around 117 AD, which saw the Roman Empire reach its greatest territorial extent. By this time, the descendants of the R1a and R1b Indo-European migrants had come to dominate most of Europe as Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic peoples. The majority of the males in Roman Italy itself would have been the descendants of R1b tribes invaders into the Italian peninsula who displaced its mainly haplogroup G2a inhabitants. Intermarriage with their Etruscan and Greek neighbours would have gradually brought other lineages, such as J2 and E-V13, into the Roman gene pool. Although there were many movements of people both within and outside the Roman Empire, as well as instances of genocide by the Romans on rebellious provincial tribes, the Empire does not appear to have left any big genetic signatures in Europe. Genetic continuity remained in its respective regions, suggesting that there were relatively few Roman Italian colonizers; rather the Empire’s true foundations were through culturally romanized local rulers.
The fourth map shows Europe around 1227 AD, the year Genghis Khan died leaving his Mongol Empire’s westernmost reach beginning to encroach into Europe (characterised by the Great Khan’s own Y-DNA haplogroup C2). Medieval Europe itself was dominated by the Holy Roman Empire – a loose union of small kingdoms with Germany at its heart (and an attempt to resurrect the former glory of the Roman Empire in the west) – and the Byzantine Empire, the continuation of the Roman Empire in the east. After the fall of the western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD the migration and conquests of Germanic tribes, such as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Normans, also left genetic signatures, particularly haplogroup I, in the British Isles and further afield.
Maps of Europe’s ancient tribes, kingdoms and Y-DNA
by Sandra Rimmer for Ancestry - Genealogy & DNA
Another post for map fans – new maps showing snapshots of Europe’s likely dominant or notable Y-DNA haplogroups around 7000 BC, 2000 BC, 117 AD and 1227 AD.
First, a disclaimer. Human genetic history is complicated, particular in Europe, therefore the territorial lines associated with major Y-DNA haplogroups in these maps should be seen as best guesses based on current knowledge of genetics, archaeology, and history (sources below).
Y-DNA also presents just a small part of our overall genetic picture. However, because the majority of the Y-chromosome is transmitted from father to son, with small mutations in pretty much every generation, it offers a good degree of resolution on population history and movement through male-line ancestry.
**Click on the maps to view at higher resolution on your desk top**
The first map shows Europe around 7000 BC. The Ice Age had ended and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers had migrated from their refuges to recolonize the continent, including Doggerland which later submerged beneath the rising North Sea. The majority of western European males belonged to Y-haplogroup I and northeast Europeans to haplogroup R1a. Other minor male lineages such as R1b, G, J, T and E would also have been present in Europe, having migrated from the Asian Steppe, the Middle East and North Africa.
The second map shows Europe around 2000 BC. In the intervening period agriculture had developed in the Levant and then spread through southern, central and eastern Europe by Neolithic farmers belonging mainly to Y-haplogroups such as G2a, and J2. During the following Copper and Bronze Ages, Indo-European tribes (R1a and R1b) migrated westward from the Eurasian Steppe. Long-distance trading networks developed across Europe and the Atlantic Coast, which helped spread distinct cultures such as Corded Ware and Bell Beaker. In the far north, Haplogroup N1c tribes arrived in Europe from Siberia, their geographical spread aligning with the Pit–Comb Ware culture. In the Middle East and Anatolia advanced civilizations began to emerge. The civilization of Ancient Egypt rose to a peak and the pyramids would remain the tallest and largest human constructions for thousands of years. Even in western Europe megalith builders were constructing giant monuments of their own.
The third map shows Europe around 117 AD, which saw the Roman Empire reach its greatest territorial extent. By this time, the descendants of the R1a and R1b Indo-European migrants had come to dominate most of Europe as Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic peoples. The majority of the males in Roman Italy itself would have been the descendants of R1b tribes invaders into the Italian peninsula who displaced its mainly haplogroup G2a inhabitants. Intermarriage with their Etruscan and Greek neighbours would have gradually brought other lineages, such as J2 and E-V13, into the Roman gene pool. Although there were many movements of people both within and outside the Roman Empire, as well as instances of genocide by the Romans on rebellious provincial tribes, the Empire does not appear to have left any big genetic signatures in Europe. Genetic continuity remained in its respective regions, suggesting that there were relatively few Roman Italian colonizers; rather the Empire’s true foundations were through culturally romanized local rulers.
The fourth map shows Europe around 1227 AD, the year Genghis Khan died leaving his Mongol Empire’s westernmost reach beginning to encroach into Europe (characterised by the Great Khan’s own Y-DNA haplogroup C2). Medieval Europe itself was dominated by the Holy Roman Empire – a loose union of small kingdoms with Germany at its heart (and an attempt to resurrect the former glory of the Roman Empire in the west) – and the Byzantine Empire, the continuation of the Roman Empire in the east. After the fall of the western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD the migration and conquests of Germanic tribes, such as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Normans, also left genetic signatures, particularly haplogroup I, in the British Isles and further afield.
gost 428502
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Drago mi je ako je tako.
Ja kada sam gledao poslednji put svi su bili Crnogorci i pričali su crnogorskim jezikom.
Od srpskoga ni S.
RickRoss
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https://informer.rs/vesti/drustvo/4...grobove-predaka-ovaj-zakon-podseca-oceubistvo
Drugi s leva je bivši fudbaler Gavrilo Petrović Njegoš. Nedavno je lajkovao objavu organizacije ''Srbi za Srbe'' da su donirali hranu u vrednosti od 1800 evra narodnoj kuhinji na Cetinju.
A supruga jednog od njih na Fejsbuku drži sliku patrijarha Pavla.
gost 428502
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Bojim se da su oni u manjini.
Nadam se da grešim. Isto važi i za Ozriniće, imaju li mozga ti ljudi. Ta dva plemena bi morala biti srpska sve i da nema Srba nigde.
RickRoss
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Naravno da su u manjini, ali kao što sam i ranije rekao takvo stanje je više tema za psihologe nego za istoričare.
Interesantno je to da su najveći Montenegrini i srbofobi u Crnoj Gori nosioci haplogrupe I2a, a najveći zaštitnici Srpstva E1b.
gost 428502
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Da, međutim ne možemo ograničiti Srbe samo na I2, odavno su i ostale grane ušle u srpski korpus da bi uopšte danas bilo ikakve razlike.
Ali shvatam šta želiš reći..No, ja sam više aludirao na Serdara Janka kao glavnu ličnost koja ima nedvosmisleno srpski karakter.
RickRoss
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Tako ti je druže. Kada pogledaš što je duže neki deo Crne Gore bio pod tom državom to je crnogorski identitet u njoj jači.
Zato i ne čudi što je upravo najjači crnogorski osećaj u Katunskoj nahiji i to ajde mogu donekle da razumem.
Ali da ti postaneš srbofob i da zoveš crnogorske Srbe posrbicama... Pa nije svet nastao 1918. ili 1945. godine pa da ignorišeš ili ne znaš kako su se ljudi, tvoji preci, izjašnjavali pre toga... Da proglašavaš srpsko ime u Crnoj Gori kao strano, na silu nametnuto od ''okupatora''.
To upravo i rade mnogi crnogorski ''istoričari'' danas. U potpunosti ignorišu na stotine raznih zapisa, proglasa i drugih dokaza o srpskom identitetu Crnogoraca pre više od 100 godina i pokušavaju kroz svoje manipulacije i falsifikate da guraju neki poseban crnogorski identitet.
Zato i ne čudi što je upravo najjači crnogorski osećaj u Katunskoj nahiji i to ajde mogu donekle da razumem.
Ali da ti postaneš srbofob i da zoveš crnogorske Srbe posrbicama... Pa nije svet nastao 1918. ili 1945. godine pa da ignorišeš ili ne znaš kako su se ljudi, tvoji preci, izjašnjavali pre toga... Da proglašavaš srpsko ime u Crnoj Gori kao strano, na silu nametnuto od ''okupatora''.
To upravo i rade mnogi crnogorski ''istoričari'' danas. U potpunosti ignorišu na stotine raznih zapisa, proglasa i drugih dokaza o srpskom identitetu Crnogoraca pre više od 100 godina i pokušavaju kroz svoje manipulacije i falsifikate da guraju neki poseban crnogorski identitet.
ZabranjeniLegenda
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Ne svi, ali vecina. Tu je bilo jako uporiste partizanskog pokreta i projekta crnogorske nacije od 1945-te.
Evo interesantne anegdote iz perioda podjele (1997-99) u Crnoj Gori:
“На самом уласку у Његуше данима је стајала табла Пера Шеваљевића. Велика као врата. Кад су почеле приче о поделама, требало је да буде опомена. „О лијепа Црна Горо, православне српске крви, издајица домовине, народни је крвник први“. Узалуд су либерали и још неки опомињали Пера Шеваљевића да је „макне“. Иначе давно уистину оглувео, правио се да их не чује.”
“Живи Богови”, Гордана Брајовић 2004.
Ovde sam nov i ne govorim srpski, pa koristim Google Translate. Zanimljivi rezultati! Zanima me I-DNA haplogrupa J2a među aromanskim ljudima Balkana. Zanima me prisustvo I-DNA haplogrupe J2a i kod Vlaha istočne Srbije.
RickRoss
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Baš sam gledao na Fejsbuku i ima nekoliko Ševaljevića koji su srpski orijentisani.
Od svih devet katunskih plemena mislim da su Bjelice najviše srpski orijentisani (možda čak i većina), a u velikoj meri i Cuce i Pješivci (mada ne većina).
Od svih devet katunskih plemena mislim da su Bjelice najviše srpski orijentisani (možda čak i većina), a u velikoj meri i Cuce i Pješivci (mada ne većina).
Vrlo dobro znam sastav haplogrupe plemena Pjesivci i Cuce. Autori pjesama su poprilično svi J2a-S8230, a Velje Cuce do sada je uglavnom J2a-S8230. Veoma zanimljivo!
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Da rekao bih da je tako, u staroj Crnoj Gori najvise srpski orijentisanih ima u Ljesanskoj Nahiji i Crmnici. To su bila tvrda jezgra cetnistva tokom drugog svjetskog rata.
Interesantno je da Katunska Nahija nije imala cetnicki pokret sto mozda je indikativno za danasnje stanje.
RickRoss
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Čitao sam da Velje Cuce i jesu migrirali iz Pješivaca u sadašnja svoja prebivališta.
If you don't know serbian english should be fine.
I am no expert but I believe that J2a is more common or prevalent among the Vlach-speaking populations than in the neighboring Balkan Slavic populations. I am not sure about eastern Serbia, perhaps someone who knows more could jump in.
Hromi Vuk
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