NOĆ KAME

stanje
Zatvorena za pisanje odgovora.
ne bi ti Milance nikad ni odgovorio da te nisam prozvao nekoliko puta na drugim temama....pa ko velis, ajd, nema mi druge...:mrgreen:

Ti Milance ili si posenilio ili neko drugi pise s tog naloga, kad ne znas da si sam otvorio temu koja se bavi tim pitanjem...pa sta je s tobom Milance...

I? Kad otvaras temu da mi objasnis? :ceka:
 
Bre Milance sto se brukas...sto se petljas, gde ti nije mesto...na te gluposti odgovorio sam ti ja argumentovano, a videli smo kako su drugi docekali temu....izgleda su svi oni glupi, samo ti pametan....Moderatori ti je prakticno zatvorili jer je jasno da takva glupost ne zasluzuje citavu temu....


A upravo taj isti Cercil doveo Tita na vlast...pa ovi tvoji crveni se jos hvalili time na forumu....ajde Milance da razmislimo 2 puta pre nego sto nesto napisemo, da ne pricamo gluposti, moze? :)

3293989.jpg

Mda, Cercil je kidnapovao Petra i odveo ga u London, pa je poslao britansku Crvenu Armiju da dovede Tita na vlast :roll:

Moderatori su spojili temu, jer je neka rutava cetnicka pica prijavila, valjda zato sto je zasvrbelo posto je bila besmislena :ceka:
 
Milance nastavljas da demonstriras svoje neznanje....i to najosnovnijih stvari da bi uopste pomislio da zapocnes diskusiju....

Jel me ti malo zaebavas :mrgreen: ili stvarno nemas pojma o britanskoj podrsci partizanima i Cercilovoj odluci da se podrzi Tito...:roll:

http://*******************************/novo/novo137/slik17.JPG

Do duse Cercil jeste nesto kasnije priznao taj potez kao svoju najvecu gresku u II sv.ratu....pa i sam Staljin 48. naziva Tita fasistom...

Sumski covece, s posebnim darom, namirisi literaturu, po vidi sta nudi...:mrgreen:

51fpmAO1D5L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


Shadows on the Mountain: The Allies, the Resistance, and the Rivalries that Doomed WWII Yugoslavia

Winston Churchill called it one of his biggest wartime failures?the shift of British and U.S. support from Yugoslavia's Dra?a Mihailović and his royalist resistance movement to Tito and his communist Partisans. This book illuminates the complex reasons behind that failure through the incredible story of what has been called the greatest rescue of Allied airmen from behind enemy lines in World War II history, a rescue executed, incredibly, with minimal official support from the United States and none such support from Great Britain.

_________________

Ili nesto mnogo konkretnije

The Rape of Serbia: The British Role in Tito's Grab for Power 1943-1944

9a14228348a0f9d882b18110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


_________-

Dovoljno Milance da se ismeje tvoja tema?
 
Poslednja izmena:
Mda, Cercil je kidnapovao Petra i odveo ga u London, pa je poslao britansku Crvenu Armiju da dovede Tita na vlast :roll:

Moderatori su spojili temu, jer je neka rutava cetnicka pica prijavila, valjda zato sto je zasvrbelo posto je bila besmislena :ceka:

A brate kad ti prvih pet forumasa prokomentarise temu u stilu ''kakve gluposti'', onda boljem i ne mozes da se nadas...:D
 
Milance nastavljas da demonstriras svoje neznanje....i to najosnovnijih stvari da bi uopste pomislio da zapocnes diskusiju....

Jel me ti malo zaebavas :mrgreen: ili stvarno nemas pojma o britanskoj podrsci partizanima i Cercilovoj odluci da se podrzi Tito...:roll:

http://*******************************/novo/novo137/slik17.JPG

Do duse Cercil jeste nesto kasnije priznao taj potez kao svoju najvecu gresku u II sv.ratu....pa i sam Staljin 48. naziva Tita fasistom...

Sumski covece, s posebnim darom, namirisi literaturu, po vidi sta nudi...:mrgreen:

51fpmAO1D5L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


Shadows on the Mountain: The Allies, the Resistance, and the Rivalries that Doomed WWII Yugoslavia

Winston Churchill called it one of his biggest wartime failures?the shift of British and U.S. support from Yugoslavia's Dra?a Mihailović and his royalist resistance movement to Tito and his communist Partisans. This book illuminates the complex reasons behind that failure through the incredible story of what has been called the greatest rescue of Allied airmen from behind enemy lines in World War II history, a rescue executed, incredibly, with minimal official support from the United States and none such support from Great Britain.

_________________

Ili nesto mnogo konkretnije

The Rape of Serbia: The British Role in Tito's Grab for Power 1943-1944

9a14228348a0f9d882b18110.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


_________-

Dovoljno Milance da se ismeje tvoja tema?


https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/csi-studies/studies/vol47no4/article08.html

Action This Day

Intelligence in Recent Public Literature

Edited by Michael Smith and Ralph Erskine. London, UK: Bantam Press, 2001. 543 pages.

Reviewed by Mark E. Stout

The assertive title boldly lettered on the gunmetal gray book spine makes this volume look like another tiresome autobiography by a former SAS trooper. However, this gem in fact is an edited volume of essays about Bletchley Park and its SIGINT efforts during World War II. (The title was Churchill's response to a 1941 memorandum from four Bletchley codebreakers asking for more resources.) The collection offers a pleasing combination of scholarship and memoirs, with eight Bletchley veterans contributing to the proceedings along with a variety of historians, including Prof. Christopher Andrew who wrote the first and last chapters putting Bletchley in pre- and post-War context.

Among the best chapters is editor Ralph Erskine's "Enigma's Security: What Germans Really Knew." This hair-raising essay is implicitly a powerful argument for alternative analysis, interagency intelligence sharing, and the breaking down of compartmentation. Erskine reports, for example, that in March 1943 the German Kriegsmarine's SIGINT service decrypted an Allied "U-Boat Estimate" that noted the location of a group of U-boats, allegedly on the basis of direction finding. The Kriegsmarine knew, however, that those U-boats could not possibly have been located by means of direction finding because they had not emitted signals. Five months later, the Abwehr passed along a report from a source in Switzerland that "a special office [in England] has dealt exclusively with solving German codes. It has succeeded for some months in reading all orders sent by the Kriegsmarine to U-boat commanders." More astounding still, in March 1944 a German technical commission firmly established that before the war the Polish Cipher Center had broken Enigma, the German code system. However, the commission's report never got to the Kriegsmarine's Marine Communications Service, which was doing a review of naval Enigma's security. It probably would not have mattered, however--the service was chartered "to explain for what reason reading of our signals . . . could not have taken place."

John Cripps, a graduate student working on a doctoral dissertation on "British Signals Intelligence and the War in Yugoslavia, 1941-1944," provided a chapter that adds to the open literature on another case in which intelligence demonstrably contributed to policymaking. He describes how Bletchley's work was central to Churchill's ideologically surprising decision to support Tito and his Partisans instead of Mihailovic's Chetniks. Bletchley was, to varying degrees, reading the communications of everyone involved: the Germans, Italians, Partisans, and Chetniks, even the Slovene Communist Party and the COMINTERN that provided guidance to Tito. Cripps demonstrates how this mass of SIGINT proved to Churchill that Tito was harassing the Axis occupiers to greater effect than Mihailovic. Cripps makes it clear that the famous report from the legendary Fitzroy McLean, the Prime Minister's liaison officer to Tito, was not the deciding factor, despite Churchill's efforts to make it appear that way. It is evident that by the time McLean's report arrived, Churchill's mind was already made up. Similarly, there is no need to attribute the decision, as some have done, to the machinations of a Soviet NKVD agent of influence serving in the British Special Operations Executive office in Cairo.

"Colossus and the Dawning of the Computer Age," by computer historian Prof. Jack Copeland, has a different flavor than the rest of the book, but is a valuable addition. Copeland notes that history books still sometimes erroneously state that the first electronic digital computer was the American ENIAC, completed in 1945. Bletchley's "Colossus" was completed in December 1943 and put to work on the German teleprinter cipher, which the British called "Tunny." ENIAC got the credit, however, because it was not a secret whereas Colossus was. It was not until 1975 that a picture of Colossus was declassified, and it was 1983 before a description of how it functioned became available, and 1996 before the United States--not the UK--declassified a description of the use to which it had been put. No wonder ENIAC made all the textbooks.

The chapters from Bletchley participants are less scholarly, but not to be neglected. Mavis Batey's "Breaking Italian Naval Enigma," for example, is a lively account of a rather obscure subject. Similarly, James Thirsk recalls his service as a "log-reader," what we would today call a traffic analyst. He ends his engaging chapter by recounting how, shortly after the German surrender, the log-readers were told to start working on French and Soviet traffic. When a group of them protested that they could not spy on Allies, their commanding officer responded: "in that case you are redundant."

In conclusion, it should be noted that the proceeds from the sale of Action This Day go to the Bletchley Park Trust, an organization devoted to Bletchley's preservation.



Mark E. Sout served in the CIA Directorate of Intelligence.

Historical Document
Posted: Apr 14, 2007 07:55 PM
Last Updated: Jun 27, 2008 07:00 AM
Last Reviewed: Apr 14, 2007 07:55 PM


Da ti posolim, il' ces ovako presno da pozobas? :per::per::per:
 
Poslednja izmena:
Da, kad ti vise ljudi u startu kaze da iznosis gluposti, a ti nisi sposoban da dokazes drugacije, i moderatori ti obrisu temu...onda se zapitas....:mrgreen:

Prvo se zapitam, gde je ta prepreka koja sprecava ljude da shvate razliku izmedju brisanja i spajanja tema, a onda se zapitam kako svojom logikom tumacis cinjenicu da je tebi spojena gomila razlicitih tema o Drazi i cetnicima. :eek:
 
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/csi-studies/studies/vol47no4/article08.html

Action This Day

Intelligence in Recent Public Literature

Edited by Michael Smith and Ralph Erskine. London, UK: Bantam Press, 2001. 543 pages.

Reviewed by Mark E. Stout

The assertive title boldly lettered on the gunmetal gray book spine makes this volume look like another tiresome autobiography by a former SAS trooper. However, this gem in fact is an edited volume of essays about Bletchley Park and its SIGINT efforts during World War II. (The title was Churchill's response to a 1941 memorandum from four Bletchley codebreakers asking for more resources.) The collection offers a pleasing combination of scholarship and memoirs, with eight Bletchley veterans contributing to the proceedings along with a variety of historians, including Prof. Christopher Andrew who wrote the first and last chapters putting Bletchley in pre- and post-War context.

Among the best chapters is editor Ralph Erskine's "Enigma's Security: What Germans Really Knew." This hair-raising essay is implicitly a powerful argument for alternative analysis, interagency intelligence sharing, and the breaking down of compartmentation. Erskine reports, for example, that in March 1943 the German Kriegsmarine's SIGINT service decrypted an Allied "U-Boat Estimate" that noted the location of a group of U-boats, allegedly on the basis of direction finding. The Kriegsmarine knew, however, that those U-boats could not possibly have been located by means of direction finding because they had not emitted signals. Five months later, the Abwehr passed along a report from a source in Switzerland that "a special office [in England] has dealt exclusively with solving German codes. It has succeeded for some months in reading all orders sent by the Kriegsmarine to U-boat commanders." More astounding still, in March 1944 a German technical commission firmly established that before the war the Polish Cipher Center had broken Enigma, the German code system. However, the commission's report never got to the Kriegsmarine's Marine Communications Service, which was doing a review of naval Enigma's security. It probably would not have mattered, however--the service was chartered "to explain for what reason reading of our signals . . . could not have taken place."

John Cripps, a graduate student working on a doctoral dissertation on "British Signals Intelligence and the War in Yugoslavia, 1941-1944," provided a chapter that adds to the open literature on another case in which intelligence demonstrably contributed to policymaking. He describes how Bletchley's work was central to Churchill's ideologically surprising decision to support Tito and his Partisans instead of Mihailovic's Chetniks. Bletchley was, to varying degrees, reading the communications of everyone involved: the Germans, Italians, Partisans, and Chetniks, even the Slovene Communist Party and the COMINTERN that provided guidance to Tito. Cripps demonstrates how this mass of SIGINT proved to Churchill that Tito was harassing the Axis occupiers to greater effect than Mihailovic. Cripps makes it clear that the famous report from the legendary Fitzroy McLean, the Prime Minister's liaison officer to Tito, was not the deciding factor, despite Churchill's efforts to make it appear that way. It is evident that by the time McLean's report arrived, Churchill's mind was already made up. Similarly, there is no need to attribute the decision, as some have done, to the machinations of a Soviet NKVD agent of influence serving in the British Special Operations Executive office in Cairo.

"Colossus and the Dawning of the Computer Age," by computer historian Prof. Jack Copeland, has a different flavor than the rest of the book, but is a valuable addition. Copeland notes that history books still sometimes erroneously state that the first electronic digital computer was the American ENIAC, completed in 1945. Bletchley's "Colossus" was completed in December 1943 and put to work on the German teleprinter cipher, which the British called "Tunny." ENIAC got the credit, however, because it was not a secret whereas Colossus was. It was not until 1975 that a picture of Colossus was declassified, and it was 1983 before a description of how it functioned became available, and 1996 before the United States--not the UK--declassified a description of the use to which it had been put. No wonder ENIAC made all the textbooks.

The chapters from Bletchley participants are less scholarly, but not to be neglected. Mavis Batey's "Breaking Italian Naval Enigma," for example, is a lively account of a rather obscure subject. Similarly, James Thirsk recalls his service as a "log-reader," what we would today call a traffic analyst. He ends his engaging chapter by recounting how, shortly after the German surrender, the log-readers were told to start working on French and Soviet traffic. When a group of them protested that they could not spy on Allies, their commanding officer responded: "in that case you are redundant."

In conclusion, it should be noted that the proceeds from the sale of Action This Day go to the Bletchley Park Trust, an organization devoted to Bletchley's preservation.



Mark E. Sout served in the CIA Directorate of Intelligence.

Historical Document
Posted: Apr 14, 2007 07:55 PM
Last Updated: Jun 27, 2008 07:00 AM
Last Reviewed: Apr 14, 2007 07:55 PM


Da ti posolim, il' ces ovako presno da pozobas? :per::per::per:

Sta da pozobam kad si ovo vec postavljao i odgovoreno ti je...pa ti si Milance stvarno posenilio...:per:

jeftin tekst da se ospori ono sto je davno dokazano....

a60562e89da01cdb74214110.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg


In his 1990 book THE WEB OF DISINFORMATION: CHURCHILL'S YUGOSLAV BLUNDER, David Martin fully uncovered the tragic tale "found in secret British files that were only recenty and inadvertently declassified. He reveals that Churchill and others were deceived- by Communist moles and sypathizers who had infiltrated the military intelligence services. The prime mover was the famous Cambridge spy set that included Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Macclean and "Sir" Anthony Blunt. Martin names the "Fifth Man": James Klugman, most brilliant mole of them all."

Ne znam sta te ovde muci...komunisticke krtice...pa bilo ih je svuda...

A to sto ti postavljas je taj jedan jedini link koji si vec postavljao i nemas nista drugo...imas potrebu da se ponavljas...ti si tu gde si i jednostavno ne mrdas dalje...

Pozobaj ovo :per:

http://forum.krstarica.com/showpost.php?p=10556688&postcount=163

http://forum.krstarica.com/showpost.php?p=10557263&postcount=165

http://forum.krstarica.com/showpost.php?p=10557276&postcount=166

http://forum.krstarica.com/showpost.php?p=10557283&postcount=167

Takodje, Ako nisi primetio najnovija knjiga na ovu temu, autora Marcia Kurapovna je izasla POSLE tvog CLANKA (da, ti se ladno pozivas na clanak...Bantam Press :hahaha:)

Pa Milance da je srece da je autor knjige znao za tvoj link ka CLANKU :lol:

A tek ovaj dokumentarac...hehehe...Eh, taj History Channel svasta bre govori Milance...tolke godine rada a da ne uzmu u obzir clanak Bantam Press-a...pa ti Milance rece da ne volis Press :hahaha:

E Milance, Milance, mani se corava posla :D

 
Prvo se zapitam, gde je ta prepreka koja sprecava ljude da shvate razliku izmedju brisanja i spajanja tema, a onda se zapitam kako svojom logikom tumacis cinjenicu da je tebi spojena gomila razlicitih tema o Drazi i cetnicima. :eek:

Pa toliko o onome sto si postavio Milance...cak ne zasluzuje posebnu temu...zamisli tek neki ozbiljniji komentar...obrisali il spojili ista stvar, i ovako vise niko ne odgovora na ono sto si postavio...ljudi su svoje rekli...

Da, tema o Drazi je na vrhu...i tu je drzite upravo vi potomci do laktova krvavih *********...pa ne govori li to dovoljno o svemu...

A, ziv je Draza, umro nije, dok je srpstva i Srbije...:D
 
stanje
Zatvorena za pisanje odgovora.

Back
Top