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ANTIFAŠISTI?

Ko su bili antifašisti za vreme Drugog svetskog rata?

  • Partizani

  • Četnici

  • I jedni i drugi


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Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained almost completely inactive against the occupation forces, and increasingly collaborated with the Axis, losing its international recognition as the Yugoslav resistance force. After a brief initial period of cooperation, the Partisans and the Chetniks quickly started fighting against each other. Gradually, the Chetniks ended up primarily fighting the Partisans instead of the occupation forces, and started cooperating with the Axis in their struggle to destroy the resistance, receiving increasing amounts of logistical assistance. Mihailović admitted to a British colonel that the Chetniks' principle enemies were "the partisans, the Ustasha, the Muslims, the Croats and last the Germans and Italians" in that order.

At the start of the conflict, Chetnik forces were merely relatively inactive towards the occupation, and negotiated with the Partisans. This changed when these talks broke down, and they proceeded to attack the latter (who were actively fighting the Germans), while continuing to engage the Axis only in minor skirmishes. Attacking the Germans provoked strong retaliation, and the Chetniks increasingly negotiated with them. Negotiations were aided by their mutual goal of destroying the Partisans. This collaboration first appeared during the attack on the Partisan "Užice Republic", where Chetniks played a part in the general Axis attack.



Collaboration with the ItaliansChetnik collaboration with the occupation forces of fascist Italy took place in three main areas: in Italian-occupied (and Italian-annexed) Dalmatia, in the Italian puppet state of Montenegro, and in German and Italian-occupied Slovenia. The collaboration in Dalmatia and parts of Bosnia was the most widespread, however, and the 1941 split between the Partisans and the Chetniks took place earlier in those areas.[2] The Partisans considered all occupation forces the fascist enemy, while the Chetniks hated the Ustaše but balked at fighting the Italians, and had approached the Italian VI Army Corps (General Renzo Dalmazzo, Commander) as early as July and August 1941 for assistance via a Serbian politician from Lika, Stevo Rađenović. In particular, Chetnik leaders (vojvoda-s) Ilija Trifunović-Birčanin and Dobroslav Jevđević were favorably disposed towards the Italians, because they believed Italian occupation over the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina would be detrimental to the influence of the Ustaše state. For this reason, they sought an alliance with the Italian occupation forces in Yugoslavia. The Italians (General Dalamazzo) looked favorably on these approaches and hoped first to avoid fighting the Chetniks, and then use them against the Partisans, which they thought would give them an "enormous advantage". An agreement was concluded on January 11, 1942 between the representative of the Italian 2nd Army, Captain Angelo De Matteis and the Chetnik representative for southeastern Bosnia, Mutimir Petković, and was later signed by Draža Mihailović's chief delegate in Bosnia, Major Boško Todorović. Among other provisions of the agreement, it was agreed that Italians would support the Chetnik formations with arms and provisions, and would facilitate the release of "recommended individuals" from Axis concentration camps (Jasenovac, Rab...). The chief interest of both the Chetniks and Italians would be to assist each other in combating the Partisan resistance.[2][4]

In the following months of 1942, General Mario Roatta, commander of the Italian 2nd Army, worked on developing a Policy Directive (Linea di condotta) on relations with the Chetniks, the Ustaše and the Partisans. In line with these efforts, General Vittorio Ambrosio outlined the Italian policy in Yugoslavia: all negotiations with the (quisling) Ustaše were to be avoided, but contacts with the Chetniks were "advisable" - as for the Partisans: "struggle to the bitter end". This meant that General Roatta was essentially free to take action with regard to the Chetniks as he saw fit.[2] He outlined the four points of his policy in his report to the Italian Army General Staff:

To support the Chetniks sufficiently to make them fight against the communists, but not so much as to allow them too much latitude in their own action; to demand and assure that the Chetniks do not fight against the Croatian forces and authorities; to allow them to fight against the communists on their own initiative (so that they can "slaughter each other"); and finally to allow them to fight in parallel with the Italian and German forces, as do the nationalist bands [Chetniks and separatist Zelenaši] in Montenegro.
—General Mario Roatta, 1942
During 1942 and 1943, an overwhelming proportion of Chetnik forces in the Italian-controlled areas of occupied Yugoslavia were organized as Italian auxiliary forces in the form of the "Voluntary Anti-Communist Militia" ("Milizia volontaria anti comunista", MVAC). According to General Giacomo Zanussi (then a Colonel and Roatta's chief of staff), there were 19,000 to 20,000 Chetniks in the MVAC in Italian-occupied parts of the Independent State of Croatia alone. The Chetniks were extensively supplied with thousands of rifles, grenades, mortars and artillery pieces. In a memorandum dated March 26, 1943 to the Italian Army General Staff entitled "The Conduct of the Chetniks", Italian officers noted the ultimate control of these collaborating Chetnik units remained in the hands of Draža Mihailović, and contemplated the possibility of a hostile reorientation of these troops in light of the changing strategic situation. The commander of these troops was vojvoda Ilija Trifunović-Birčanin, who arrived in Italian-annexed Split in October 1941 and received his orders directly from Mihailović in the spring of 1942.
The Chetnik-Italian collaboration lasted until the Italian capitulation on September 8, 1943, when Chetnik troops switched to supporting the German occupation in forcing the Partisans out of the coastal cities which they liberated upon the Italian withdrawal. The German 114th Jäger Division even incorporated a Chetnik detachment in its advance to the Adriatic.




Collaboration with the NDHSee also: Independent State of Croatia and Ustaše

Representatives of the Chetniks, Ustaše, and Croatian Home Guard meet in Bosnia.After the 1941 split between the Partisans and the Chetniks in Serbia, the Chetnik groups in central, eastern, and northwestern Bosnia found themselves caught between the German and Ustaše (NDH) forces on one side and the Partisans on the other. In early 1942 Chetnik Major Jezdimir Dangić approached the Germans in an attempt to arrive at an understanding, but was unsuccessful, and the local Chetnik leaders were forced to look for another solution. The Chetnik groups were in fundamental disagreement with the Ustaše on practically all issues, but they found a common enemy in the Partisans, and this was the overriding reason for the collaboration which ensued between the Ustaše authorities of the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) and Chetnik detachments in Bosnia. The first formal agreement between Bosnian Chetniks and the Ustaše was concluded on May 28, 1942, in which Chetnik leaders expresseed their loyalty as "citizens of the Independent State of Croatia" both to the state and its Poglavnik (Ante Pavelić). During the next three weeks, three additional agreements were signed, covering a large part of the area of Bosnia (along with the Chetnik detachments within it). By the provision of these agreements, the Chetniks were to cease hostilities against the Ustaše state, and the Ustaše would establish regular administration in these areas.[2] The main provision, Art. 5 of the agreement, states as follows:

As long as there is danger from the Partisan armed bands, the Chetnik formations will cooperate voluntarily with the Croatian military in fighting and destroying the Partisans and in those operations they will be under the overall command of the Croatian armed forces. (...) Chetnik formations may engage in operations against the Partisans on their own, but this they will have to report, on time, to the Croatian military commanders.
—Chetnik-Ustaše collaboration agreement, May 28, 1942

The necessary ammunition and provisions were supplied to the Chetniks by the Ustaše military. Chetniks who were wounded in such operations would be cared for in NDH hospitals, while the orphans and widows of Chetniks killed in action would be supported by the Ustaše state. Persons specifically recommended by Chetnik commanders would be returned home from the Ustaše concentration camps (Jasenovac concentration camp). These agreements covered the majority of Chetnik forces in Bosnia east of the German-Italian demarcation line, and lasted throughout most of the war. Since Croatian forces were immediately subordinate to the German military occupation, collaboration with Croatian forces was, in fact, indirect collaboration with the Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks
 

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Mihailović admitted to a British colonel that the Chetniks' principle enemies were "the partisans, the Ustasha, the Muslims, the Croats and last the Germans and Italians" in that order.


Draža Mihajlović je priznao britanskom pukovniku, da Partizane smatra većim
neprijateljima čak i od ustaša.


This collaboration first appeared during the attack on the Partisan "Užice Republic", where Chetniks played a part in the general Axis attack.


Kolaboracija između Nemaca i Četnika je počela već krajem 1941. godine, kada su
zajedničkim snagama napali Užičku republiku koju su osnovali Partizani.


—General Mario Roatta, 1942
During 1942 and 1943, an overwhelming proportion of Chetnik forces in the Italian-controlled areas of occupied Yugoslavia were organized as Italian auxiliary forces in the form of the "Voluntary Anti-Communist Militia" ("Milizia volontaria anti comunista", MVAC). According to General Giacomo Zanussi (then a Colonel and Roatta's chief of staff), there were 19,000 to 20,000 Chetniks in the MVAC in Italian-occupied parts of the Independent State of Croatia alone. The Chetniks were extensively supplied with thousands of rifles, grenades, mortars and artillery pieces. In a memorandum dated March 26, 1943 to the Italian Army General Staff entitled "The Conduct of the Chetniks", Italian officers noted the ultimate control of these collaborating Chetnik units remained in the hands of Draža Mihailović, and contemplated the possibility of a hostile reorientation of these troops in light of the changing strategic situation. The commander of these troops was vojvoda Ilija Trifunović-Birčanin, who arrived in Italian-annexed Split in October 1941 and received his orders directly from Mihailović in the spring of 1942.


Italijanski fašisti su redovno naoružavali Četnike vojvode Trifunovića, koji su bili pod
direktnom komandom Draže Mihajlovića.

Hebote, ovo je jedninstven slučaj u Drugom svetskom ratu, da fašisti naoružavaju
antifašiste.:hahaha:


The Chetnik groups were in fundamental disagreement with the Ustaše on practically all issues, but they found a common enemy in the Partisans, and this was the overriding reason for the collaboration which ensued between the Ustaše authorities of the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) and Chetnik detachments in Bosnia.


Četnici i ustaše su bili fundamentalno suprotstavljeni po svim pitanjima, ali su našli
zajednički jezik u obostranom neprijateljstvu prema Partizanima, te su iz tog razloga
uspostavili saradnju.


The necessary ammunition and provisions were supplied to the Chetniks by the Ustaše military. Chetniks who were wounded in such operations would be cared for in NDH hospitals, while the orphans and widows of Chetniks killed in action would be supported by the Ustaše state.


Ustaše su snabdevale četnike municijom i ostalim neophodnim namirnicama, dok
su ranjeni Četnici lečeni u ustaškim bolnicama.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks
 

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Za one koji ne razumeju engleski, evo malo po naškiz:D:


"Na celoj teritoriji NDH na kojoj su živeli Srbi, došlo je do spontanog organizovanja ustanka protiv ustaškog terora. Komunisti su se priključili ustanicima i preuzeli rukovodstvo nad vođenjem i organizacijom ustanka. Oni su nametnuli svoje principe: beskompromisnu borbu protiv svih okupatora i pomagača, zabranu nacionalnog revanšizma i zabranu pljačke, te vojničku disciplinu. Bilo iz ideoloških razloga, bilo zbog neprihvatanja ovih principa, bilo pod uticajem Nedićevih i Mihailovićevih izaslanika ili propagande preko radio-Londona, među ustanicima je došlo do podele. Nacionalistički elementi organizovali su se i tokom prve polovine 1942. putem pučeva preuzeli od komunista rukovođenje ustaničkim odredima u centralnoj i istočnoj Bosni.

Ovi odredi s početka nisu bili u neposrednoj vezi sa Mihailovićem, ali su ga priznavali za komandanta. Tokom druge polovine Mihailović uspostavlja neposredniju kontrolu nad bosanskim četnicima preko svog "delegata Vrhovne komande za zapadnu Bosnu", kapetana Bore Mitranovića i žandarmerijskog majora Slavoljuba Vranješevića.

Ovi odredi sklopili su ugovore o saradnji sa vojnim vlastima NDH tokom aprila, maja i juna 1942. Prvi je sporazum sa NDH potpisao Uroš Drenović u ime svog odreda 27. aprila 1942. Zatim su slične sporazume potpisali Lazo Tešanović, Rade Radić, Savo Božić, Cvijetin Todić, Radivoje Kerović i drugi. Radi koordinacije, ove jedinice obrazovale su Glavni štab bosanskih četničkih odreda na čelu sa Radom Radićem kao zajedničku komandu."
 

Kraški lovac

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Banovan
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Не знам шта хоћеш да докажеш Трибуне?

Не могу се четници сврстати у потпуности ни на страну Осовине, ни на страну Савезника. Јер је четничких јединица било широм Југославије, неки су били са Немцима/Италијанима, неки против њих.
 

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Не знам шта хоћеш да докажеш Трибуне?

Не могу се четници сврстати у потпуности ни на страну Осовине, ни на страну Савезника. Јер је четничких јединица било широм Југославије, неки су били са Немцима/Италијанима, неки против њих .


Navedi mi ove druge, ako ti to nije neki problem. Ali da su bili od početka do kraja
protiv Nemaca/Italijana.:ceka:
 

XXXyyyXXX

Domaćin
Poruka
4.256
Не знам шта хоћеш да докажеш Трибуне?

Не могу се четници сврстати у потпуности ни на страну Осовине, ни на страну Савезника. Јер је четничких јединица било широм Југославије, неки су били са Немцима/Италијанима, неки против њих.
Ili si bio na strani fašista ili na strani saveznika. Sredine nema.
 

RoccoS

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Sve diskusije o antifasistickom karakteru cetnicke borbe okoncane su dodeljivanjem ordena Legion of Merit djeneralu Drazi Mihailovicu od strane predsednika Trumana


Prilikom posthumne dodele ordena, predsednik Truman je rekao:
"Генерал Драгољуб Михаиловић истакао се као главни заповедник југословенских оружаних снага и после као Министар војни, организујући и водећи снаге отпора против непријатеља који је окупирао Југославију, од децембра 1941. до децембра 1944. Захваљујући неустрашивим напорима његових трупа, многи амерички авијатичари били су спасени и безбедно враћени на савезничку страну. Генерал Михаиловић и његове снаге, упркос недовољном снабдевању, и борећи се под изузетним тешкоћама, материјално су допринели савезничкој војсци и били учесници у извојевању коначне савезничке победе."
Time su sve price o tome da li su cetnici bili antifasisti ili ne - postale besmislene.
 

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Sve diskusije o antifasistickom karakteru cetnicke borbe okoncane su dodeljivanjem ordena Legion of Merit djeneralu Drazi Mihailovicu od strane predsednika Trumana

Prilikom posthumne dodele ordena, predsednik Truman je rekao:


Time su sve price o tome da li su cetnici bili antifasisti ili ne - postale besmislene.

Jel to bio predsednik one zemlje koja nas je zasipala osiromašenim
uranijumom?

Kako to čas valjaju, čas ne valjaju...???:ceka:
 

МАЧАК

Buduća legenda
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25.544
Sve diskusije o antifasistickom karakteru cetnicke borbe okoncane su dodeljivanjem ordena Legion of Merit djeneralu Drazi Mihailovicu od strane predsednika Trumana


Prilikom posthumne dodele ordena, predsednik Truman je rekao:


Time su sve price o tome da li su cetnici bili antifasisti ili ne - postale besmislene.
За Бугаре, како у Бугарској, тако у Србији...нису....
Још увек дрхте на помен речи....ЧЕТНИК...

 

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Tribune,svaki normalan čovek bi između musolinijeve italije i staljinovog sssr ili brozoslavije do sedamdesetih godina,izabrao da živi u musolinijevoj italiji.

Prvo, pod terminom "fašista" se podrazumevaju i Nemci. Drugo, što se tiče ovoga o
Staljinu i SSSR-u se potpuno slažem, ali to je shvatio i Tito pa je odjebao Staljina
još 1948. godine.

Uporedi malo Titovu Jugoslaviju sa Staljinovom Češkom, Poljskom, Mađarskom,
Istočnom Nemačkom, ali objektivno i bez predrasuda i videćeš da je ta razlika
ogromna.
 
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