Ko je izmislio Balkan?
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  1. #1
    Mrkalj nije na forumu
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    Podrazumevano Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Pogađate da je ovaj naslov ujedno metafora.

    Misha Glenny in his book "The Balkans" published in 1999, writes:

    "The difficulty in defining the Balkans arises from the conflation of political and geographic descriptions that are themselves problematic. The term Balkan peninsula is modern, coined by the German geographer, Johann August Zeune, in 1808. It arose from a long-standing misconception that the Balkan mountain range, the backbone of present-day Bulgaria, did not taper out in eastern Serbia (as is the case) but stretched unbroken from the Black Sea to the Adriatic. It took a century for this inaccurate description to eclipse other classical or geo-political names, like Turkey-in-Europe or the Near East. [When it comes to defining what is meant by the name 'Balkan', he observes,] a consensus has never been found."

    http://www.roconsulboston.com/Pages/InfoPages/Commentary/Balkan.html
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Mrkalj : 07.04.2010. u 05:51



  2. #2
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Poznato je da je antički naziv za Balkan bilo Hem, a ja, da se priključim ludacima, kažem da je to starosrpska rěč za brěg koja danas glasi hum, od starijeg hlm gdě je h ozvučeno u grčki transkribovano kao Hem ili Helm.

    Ujedno, Hlm tj. Hulm tj. Chelmia je staro ime Hrcegovine.

    Citat Original postavio Mrkalj Pogledaj poruku
    O ovom pričam:

    i hrvatska mapa:


    I o ovom pričam:


    Grb Bunije (Huma), srpske kneževine iz prěvoda Stematografije P. Rittera Vitezovića sa latinskog na slavenosrpski



    • hum - češ. chlum;
    • prasl. *xъlmъ (stsl. xlъmъ, rus. xolm, češ. chlum)

    Ritterova Chulmija je definitivno Hum, tj. Bun(ij)a - staro ime za Hercegovinu.

    Još tri priloga obaška:

    Raci

    Raci (Rác, Ratzen, Ratzians, Rasciani) je naziv koji su Mađari i Nemci koristili za Srbe i Bunjevce. Naziv Raci dolazi od imena jedne od prvih srpskih država - Raške. Pored naziva Raci, u upotrebi je bio i naziv Rascijani (Rasciani), a zemlja na kojoj su živeli Srbi nazivana je Rascia ili Racszag.

    Budući da su Srbi, od 15. veka, pa nadalje, činili znatan deo stanovništva na teritoriji današnje Vojvodine, mnogi istorijski izvori i mape, nastali u ovom istorijskom periodu (15-18. vek), pominju teritoriju današnje Vojvodine pod imenima Rascia i Mala Raška. Naziv Rascia se takođe javlja i na području Slavonije.

    Po jednoj belešci iz 1543. godine, Temišvar i Arad nalazili su se usred Rascie (in medio Rascionarum), a tada je, po istom zapisu, u celom Banatu vladao srpski jezik. U to vreme je na prostoru Banata postojalo sedamnaest srpskih manastira.

    Kada su predstavnici vojvođanskih Srba 1848. godine odneli svoje zahteve Lajošu Košutu, upozorili su ga da njih vređa kada ih zove Raci, jer oni imaju svoje narodno i istorijsko ime - Srbi.

    Od naziva Raci je takođe izvedeno i prvo ime Novog Sada: Racka varoš (Ratzen Stadt), odnosno - Srpski grad.



    Matija Evetović, 1941.:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Državica jugoistočno od Zahumlja ili Huma, pored Trebinja, zvala se na grčkom jeziku Trabounia, a hrvatski se pisala Travunija. Značenje je ove riječi isto što i Zahumlje, tj. kraj iza huma ili brda. Njen je stanovnik Travunjanin tj. Humljanin. Vremenom je grčki prijedlog „tra” nestao, a ostala je samo riječ „Bounia”, kao što je od riječi „Zahumlje” ostala riječ „Hum”. Prema tome, Bunjevci su dobili svoje ime po predjelu iza grada Bona (Buna), tj. iza brda, ispod kojeg je rijeka Bona (Buna), koja se grčki zove Kalon (blag). Otud ime Blagaj. Sama pak riječ „Bunjevac” označuje čovjeka koji je iz toga kraja, tj. Humljanin, Travunjanin, brđanin, gorštak.


    I time je priča o porěklu Bunjvaca stavljena ad acta.
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Mrkalj : 07.04.2010. u 05:56

  3. #3
    Mrkalj nije na forumu
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    hum

    hum m 〈N mn húmovi〉

    1. omanje brdo pod travom
    2. (Hum) istorijski (u nekim izvorima) Hercegovina


    ✧ prasl. *xъlmъ (stsl. xlъmъ, rus. xolm, češ. chlum)

    "Balkan" comes from a Turkish word meaning "a chain of wooded mountains".[1] The ancient Greek name for the Balkan Peninsula was the "Peninsula of Haemus” (Χερσόνησος τοῦ Αἵμου, Chersónēsos tou Haímou). The Balkans are also referred to as Southeastern Europe.

    Dakle, kako ćemo, brdo na Turskom (Balkan) ili brdo na srpskom (Haímou / Hlm)?

    Zašto su to proměnili na Cojneov prědlog 1808?
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Mrkalj : 07.04.2010. u 05:59

  4. #4
    Poznat Kor (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Dobra ti je tema......
    ima jedan interesantan detalj na ovoj karti....u "Chelmanii" imas mesto Buna koje verovatno odgovara danasnjem mestu Buna kod Mostara. Tamo pord njega pise "Volga". Ovo prvi put cujem,
    Odakle je ova karta i na koji se period odnosi? Po svemu sudeci, rec je o 9. veku.

  5. #5
    Veoma poznat Moračanin (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Naziv Balkan je po starom italskom bogu
    vatre Vulkanus-u, prvenstveno bogu vulkanske vatre,
    a kasnije i bogu kovačke veštine. Ovaj naziv odnosi se na
    planinu Hem i čitavo poluostrvo.

  6. #6
    Iskusan
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Moračanin Pogledaj poruku
    Naziv Balkan je po starom italskom bogu
    vatre Vulkanus-u, prvenstveno bogu vulkanske vatre,
    a kasnije i bogu kovačke veštine. Ovaj naziv odnosi se na
    planinu Hem i čitavo poluostrvo.
    Nije ti logično objašnjenje. Na Balkanu nema vulkana.

  7. #7
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Mrkalj Pogledaj poruku

    Zašto su to proměnili na Cojneov prědlog 1808?

    Можда због овога ( из списка варварске терминологије у латини вулгати):

    - Oyranos (Uranus), the most ancient king of the Pelasgian nation; in ancient religion, the sky, Ceriul (Coelus) personified, and according to Romanian carols “descended from the sky”. The original meaning of the word had been Muntean (TN – from the mountain), Montanus, as results from the name Montu or Mont which he had with the Egyptians. The etymoloy is reduced to the ancient barbarian word ur, mountain, Greek oros, Ionian oyros. From the same root also derives the Romanian word urias, giant, “dweller of the mountains”. On a Roman inscription from Gallia VRIAXE, feminine proper name. From ur (mountain) also derives the name of the wild ox urus, Rom. bo-ur.

    (Наравно, погрешна претпоставка да је УРИАКСЕ - УРИАШЕ женско име. Римљани га немају али је веома распорострањено код Германа из Ретије и Баварије као УРС и код Словена као УРОШ ( најбитнија веза - река Дунав). Још једно име којим су децу бранили од злих духова поред Вука и Лава - МЕДВЕД, велики створ.)

    Па онда то и доказују у истом списку:

    - Ursus, Ursulus, Ursa, personal names in Noricum, Pannonia and Dalmatia.

    Но, да наставимо даље:


    - ‘Olumpos (Olumpos), the holy mountain of Pelasgian and Greek theology, situated according to Homer, Hesiodus, Eschyl, Eurypide and Pindar, at the north of the Thracian peninsula, near Oceanos potamos; later though, considered as a mountain between Thessaly and Macedonia. In Romanian, holump, as name of a mountain, tumulus, funerary mound; the same word found as holm, holmu and holym, Lat. mons, monticulus, in medieval documents of Hungary.
    "Velika seoba Slovena" i autohtonost Albanaca na Balkanu su lice i naličje iste "medalje" .

  8. #8
    Ističe se
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Balkan se zove nepravedno , nikad ova terotorija nije se zvala Balkan nego Illyrija ..http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/Illyria-2.jpg
    Ovde imate najnovi intervju od Istoricara Aleksandre Lambert :

    Truth be said I was greatly disappointed that we are engaging in such proposals as for the expansion of The National Historical Museum. For what purpose would a small and worthless people like the Albanians need a National Historical Museum? The pacifist thing to do with it would be to raise it to the ground completely. First of all since it occupies one fourth of the main square in Tirana (I do not dare to call the square by its name because I’m afraid that I might echo Nationhood or sound like a anacrotic nationalist). While raising it to the ground, together with all that mosaic ( where the pick tool is missing, meaning the destructive object which the communists had it as the symbol of construction), more free space will open up in the square, thus creating the means for the political parties to organize demonstrations, rallies and massive political concerts. Gains of which the little things like history works will never give you.
    Understandably, before the dynamite is put to the National Historical Museum to be raised to the ground, preparations have to be made.
    First of all, with a humane soul, the Museum personnel has to be notified to leave. All but Moikom Zeqo, who deserves to be left there and be destroyed for his anti-globalist activities. After this there is a very careful job to be done for the removal and the departure to their destination of all the materials of great value. For example, all the vases, statues, and the work tools gathered from antiquity have to be spread out to those whom they belong. This is not a easy job, that is why good experts, native and outsiders have to be called in and judge. In fact the natives should not be called at all because they are nationalists. It’s better to do this job with the outsiders only. Especially with the neighbours. We first invite the Greeks and we tell them: “Come dear folks, Greek scientists. Here we have all the objects of the National Historic Museum, which is of no use to us. Take what belongs to you. Everything that belongs to the Hellenic civilization” …Then..
    Wait a minute. This doesn’t seem very logical. The Greeks will not leave anything behind. Not only the findings of Bënçë, but even the dust brume of the cleaners of the Museum will emerge as Hellenic objects. I’m afraid that such thing will be unjust and will not go well with the Latins and the Slavonics who will remain with a thumb up their mouth. That is why it would be best to invite the Greeks, the Italians and the Serbs at the same time, and the Montenegrins and the Bulgarians and the Bosnians, and the French and the Turks, and the Austrians, and the Germans, and the Romanians and Vllahet. They should all be lined up at a starting point and simultaneously start cleaning up the Museum. Not like the cleaning that has been done for centuries in a chronological independent manner, where every one stole values/valuables from the biggest Museum which was called Albania, and were taken to their country with out having direct competition. Not like in those times where the Eglish, Austrian, French, Italian or German counsellors were never bothered by anyone from the surroundings.
    It would be beautiful if the whole process would be filmed and transmitted on TV. A very successful “Reality TV” can be created. The right to transmit this should be given to a foreign TV station, while the earnings from this should go to help the homeless in Copenhagen.
    Leaving everything in the hands of the foreigners would bring another benefit. They would solve a lot of questions which we are struggling with and unable to find answers for them. For example, they can once and for all clarify if Gonxhe Bojaxhiu (mother Teresa) is Serbian, Macedonian, Vllahian or Rom. While inside the Museum, they would know to scientifically pin point (because only they have the exclusivity of science) in which date and under what circumstances and what premises, has the legend of aksh or some other myth been stolen by these bandit Albanians. How and from whom it was stolen, - the Serbs, the Montenegros, the Bosnians, The Croats, the Macedonians, the Vojvodinians, the Slovenians, or from the whole former Yugoslavia at the same time. Also how much do we owe them in reparations for the things that we stole?
    I personally am curious to know to whom will Skernderbeg belong too. Not that I have any particular affection for him, but let us understand each other (that even if I did, I would not dare say it in the open because I would be called a nationalist). I’m just very unclear if he will end up in Beograd, in Athens, in Istanbul or in Sofia.
    Sincerely I would not bet on it, even though I would side my self towards Athens. Not because of anything in particular but I’ve heard that Skenderbeg held himself to be a descendant of Pyrrhus of Epir (I hope these are not some ultra-nationalistic rumours) and I know very good that Epir in Greek means Greece. In fact not only Epir. Even the Pelasgians, and Macedonia, Illyria, the Etruscans, Troy, Constantinople, Thrace, Byzantium and before and after Christ, even Christ and everything else connected to the history and the Greek language is translated in to Greece.
    After we’ve thoroughly cleaned the ex-National ex-Historical ex-Museum, I would beg to the foreign scholars to hold a symposium titled:
    “The final definition of the correct birth date of the Albanian people” clearly orientating them to look for this answer in documents of the 11-th and 19-th century period, and to have as reference mainly Serbian authors, since they have been licensed as the best source for this topic. Let this date be defined once and for all, including the year, the month, the date, and the time. For example, let it be said: The Albanian Nation was born out of nothing on 16-th of February of the year 1372 period. Or, the Albanian nation arrived in the territories of today after a long voyage from the Himalayans, on the 22-nd of April of 1413, at 5:35 morning time, period. This is what I call scientifically correct. All others are suppositions.
    The results of this symposium, I would translate them in to every language of the Eastern Europe, places these which need a bit of Democratic culture to shine on them (since even today, 14 years after the fall of the Berlin wall, they are still being called “Ex-Democracies of the East” a term that verifies very well that even today they have fallen under the claws of dictatorships and dream of the bright days of the Democrat Stalin).
    Meanwhile we Albanians ( or whatever other nation we are of ) should not cross our hands and do nothing but we should actively be working with the cleaning process: excluding from out nation all those figures that are not Albanians. In the breath of the Parties’ Central Organization plenum, whom had mastered the craft of excluding, let us hit one by one all the dubious and unclear figures, starting from Ali Pasha of Tepelena (Greek), Bushatliu (Montenegrin), Fan Noli (American-Bulgarian), Ismail Kadare (French), Ismail Qemali and Naim Frasheri (Turks), Gjergj Fishta (Italian) and all the others, let us erase from their biography every bit of being Albanian. Actually this job should begin with the players of the National Team who play outside the country, because this way we will spare a lot of trouble to the next generations.
    After we’ve cleaned the square thoroughly, after we’ve cleaned the history and the actuality, after we have completely cleaned all of the figures, let’s go out and happily demonstrate arm in arm for the political parties, the pluralist internationalism, the Democratic Globalization, the good neighbourhood of the Balkans and the pure interethnic love.
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Arberi : 07.04.2010. u 13:46

  9. #9
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Arberi Pogledaj poruku
    Balkan se zove nepravedno , nikad ova terotorija nije se zvala Balkan nego Illyrija ..http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/Illyria-2.jpg
    Ovde imate najnovi intervju od Istoricara Aleksandre Lambert

    Truth be said I was greatly disappointed that we are engaging in such proposals as for the expansion of The National Historical Museum. For what purpose would a small and worthless people like the Albanians need a National Historical Museum? The pacifist thing to do with it would be to raise it to the ground completely. First of all since it occupies one fourth of the main square in Tirana (I do not dare to call the square by its name because I’m afraid that I might echo Nationhood or sound like a anacrotic nationalist). While raising it to the ground, together with all that mosaic ( where the pick tool is missing, meaning the destructive object which the communists had it as the symbol of construction), more free space will open up in the square, thus creating the means for the political parties to organize demonstrations, rallies and massive political concerts. Gains of which the little things like history works will never give you.
    Understandably, before the dynamite is put to the National Historical Museum to be raised to the ground, preparations have to be made.
    First of all, with a humane soul, the Museum personnel has to be notified to leave. All but Moikom Zeqo, who deserves to be left there and be destroyed for his anti-globalist activities. After this there is a very careful job to be done for the removal and the departure to their destination of all the materials of great value. For example, all the vases, statues, and the work tools gathered from antiquity have to be spread out to those whom they belong. This is not a easy job, that is why good experts, native and outsiders have to be called in and judge. In fact the natives should not be called at all because they are nationalists. It’s better to do this job with the outsiders only. Especially with the neighbours. We first invite the Greeks and we tell them: “Come dear folks, Greek scientists. Here we have all the objects of the National Historic Museum, which is of no use to us. Take what belongs to you. Everything that belongs to the Hellenic civilization” …Then..
    Wait a minute. This doesn’t seem very logical. The Greeks will not leave anything behind. Not only the findings of Bënçë, but even the dust brume of the cleaners of the Museum will emerge as Hellenic objects. I’m afraid that such thing will be unjust and will not go well with the Latins and the Slavonics who will remain with a thumb up their mouth. That is why it would be best to invite the Greeks, the Italians and the Serbs at the same time, and the Montenegrins and the Bulgarians and the Bosnians, and the French and the Turks, and the Austrians, and the Germans, and the Romanians and Vllahet. They should all be lined up at a starting point and simultaneously start cleaning up the Museum. Not like the cleaning that has been done for centuries in a chronological independent manner, where every one stole values/valuables from the biggest Museum which was called Albania, and were taken to their country with out having direct competition. Not like in those times where the Eglish, Austrian, French, Italian or German counsellors were never bothered by anyone from the surroundings.
    It would be beautiful if the whole process would be filmed and transmitted on TV. A very successful “Reality TV” can be created. The right to transmit this should be given to a foreign TV station, while the earnings from this should go to help the homeless in Copenhagen.
    Leaving everything in the hands of the foreigners would bring another benefit. They would solve a lot of questions which we are struggling with and unable to find answers for them. For example, they can once and for all clarify if Gonxhe Bojaxhiu (mother Teresa) is Serbian, Macedonian, Vllahian or Rom. While inside the Museum, they would know to scientifically pin point (because only they have the exclusivity of science) in which date and under what circumstances and what premises, has the legend of aksh or some other myth been stolen by these bandit Albanians. How and from whom it was stolen, - the Serbs, the Montenegros, the Bosnians, The Croats, the Macedonians, the Vojvodinians, the Slovenians, or from the whole former Yugoslavia at the same time. Also how much do we owe them in reparations for the things that we stole?
    I personally am curious to know to whom will Skernderbeg belong too. Not that I have any particular affection for him, but let us understand each other (that even if I did, I would not dare say it in the open because I would be called a nationalist). I’m just very unclear if he will end up in Beograd, in Athens, in Istanbul or in Sofia.
    Sincerely I would not bet on it, even though I would side my self towards Athens. Not because of anything in particular but I’ve heard that Skenderbeg held himself to be a descendant of Pyrrhus of Epir (I hope these are not some ultra-nationalistic rumours) and I know very good that Epir in Greek means Greece. In fact not only Epir. Even the Pelasgians, and Macedonia, Illyria, the Etruscans, Troy, Constantinople, Thrace, Byzantium and before and after Christ, even Christ and everything else connected to the history and the Greek language is translated in to Greece.
    After we’ve thoroughly cleaned the ex-National ex-Historical ex-Museum, I would beg to the foreign scholars to hold a symposium titled:
    “The final definition of the correct birth date of the Albanian people” clearly orientating them to look for this answer in documents of the 11-th and 19-th century period, and to have as reference mainly Serbian authors, since they have been licensed as the best source for this topic. Let this date be defined once and for all, including the year, the month, the date, and the time. For example, let it be said: The Albanian Nation was born out of nothing on 16-th of February of the year 1372 period. Or, the Albanian nation arrived in the territories of today after a long voyage from the Himalayans, on the 22-nd of April of 1413, at 5:35 morning time, period. This is what I call scientifically correct. All others are suppositions.
    The results of this symposium, I would translate them in to every language of the Eastern Europe, places these which need a bit of Democratic culture to shine on them (since even today, 14 years after the fall of the Berlin wall, they are still being called “Ex-Democracies of the East” a term that verifies very well that even today they have fallen under the claws of dictatorships and dream of the bright days of the Democrat Stalin).
    Meanwhile we Albanians ( or whatever other nation we are of ) should not cross our hands and do nothing but we should actively be working with the cleaning process: excluding from out nation all those figures that are not Albanians. In the breath of the Parties’ Central Organization plenum, whom had mastered the craft of excluding, let us hit one by one all the dubious and unclear figures, starting from Ali Pasha of Tepelena (Greek), Bushatliu (Montenegrin), Fan Noli (American-Bulgarian), Ismail Kadare (French), Ismail Qemali and Naim Frasheri (Turks), Gjergj Fishta (Italian) and all the others, let us erase from their biography every bit of being Albanian. Actually this job should begin with the players of the National Team who play outside the country, because this way we will spare a lot of trouble to the next generations.
    After we’ve cleaned the square thoroughly, after we’ve cleaned the history and the actuality, after we have completely cleaned all of the figures, let’s go out and happily demonstrate arm in arm for the political parties, the pluralist internationalism, the Democratic Globalization, the good neighbourhood of the Balkans and the pure interethnic love.
    In Greek mythology, King Haemus (Greek: Αἷμος, Haîmos) of Thrace was the son of Boreas. He was vain and haughty and compared himself and his wife, Queen Rhodope, to Zeus and Hera. The gods changed him and his wife into mountains (Haemus Mons and Rhodope Mountains, respectively). In ancient Greek, the Balkan Peninsula was thus known as the "Peninsula of Haemus" (Χερσόνησος τοῦ Αἵμου), a name which retains some currency in modern Greek.


    Дакле, пре ИЉИРИЈЕ.
    "Velika seoba Slovena" i autohtonost Albanaca na Balkanu su lice i naličje iste "medalje" .

  10. #10
    Veoma poznat Akay (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Arberi Pogledaj poruku
    Balkan se zove nepravedno , nikad ova terotorija nije se zvala Balkan nego Illyrija ..http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/Illyria-2.jpg
    Ovde imate najnovi intervju od Istoricara Aleksandre Lambert :

    Truth be said I was greatly disappointed that we are engaging in such proposals as for the expansion of The National Historical Museum. For what purpose would a small and worthless people like the Albanians need a National Historical Museum? The pacifist thing to do with it would be to raise it to the ground completely. First of all since it occupies one fourth of the main square in Tirana (I do not dare to call the square by its name because I’m afraid that I might echo Nationhood or sound like a anacrotic nationalist). While raising it to the ground, together with all that mosaic ( where the pick tool is missing, meaning the destructive object which the communists had it as the symbol of construction), more free space will open up in the square, thus creating the means for the political parties to organize demonstrations, rallies and massive political concerts. Gains of which the little things like history works will never give you.
    Understandably, before the dynamite is put to the National Historical Museum to be raised to the ground, preparations have to be made.
    First of all, with a humane soul, the Museum personnel has to be notified to leave. All but Moikom Zeqo, who deserves to be left there and be destroyed for his anti-globalist activities. After this there is a very careful job to be done for the removal and the departure to their destination of all the materials of great value. For example, all the vases, statues, and the work tools gathered from antiquity have to be spread out to those whom they belong. This is not a easy job, that is why good experts, native and outsiders have to be called in and judge. In fact the natives should not be called at all because they are nationalists. It’s better to do this job with the outsiders only. Especially with the neighbours. We first invite the Greeks and we tell them: “Come dear folks, Greek scientists. Here we have all the objects of the National Historic Museum, which is of no use to us. Take what belongs to you. Everything that belongs to the Hellenic civilization” …Then..
    Wait a minute. This doesn’t seem very logical. The Greeks will not leave anything behind. Not only the findings of Bënçë, but even the dust brume of the cleaners of the Museum will emerge as Hellenic objects. I’m afraid that such thing will be unjust and will not go well with the Latins and the Slavonics who will remain with a thumb up their mouth. That is why it would be best to invite the Greeks, the Italians and the Serbs at the same time, and the Montenegrins and the Bulgarians and the Bosnians, and the French and the Turks, and the Austrians, and the Germans, and the Romanians and Vllahet. They should all be lined up at a starting point and simultaneously start cleaning up the Museum. Not like the cleaning that has been done for centuries in a chronological independent manner, where every one stole values/valuables from the biggest Museum which was called Albania, and were taken to their country with out having direct competition. Not like in those times where the Eglish, Austrian, French, Italian or German counsellors were never bothered by anyone from the surroundings.
    It would be beautiful if the whole process would be filmed and transmitted on TV. A very successful “Reality TV” can be created. The right to transmit this should be given to a foreign TV station, while the earnings from this should go to help the homeless in Copenhagen.
    Leaving everything in the hands of the foreigners would bring another benefit. They would solve a lot of questions which we are struggling with and unable to find answers for them. For example, they can once and for all clarify if Gonxhe Bojaxhiu (mother Teresa) is Serbian, Macedonian, Vllahian or Rom. While inside the Museum, they would know to scientifically pin point (because only they have the exclusivity of science) in which date and under what circumstances and what premises, has the legend of aksh or some other myth been stolen by these bandit Albanians. How and from whom it was stolen, - the Serbs, the Montenegros, the Bosnians, The Croats, the Macedonians, the Vojvodinians, the Slovenians, or from the whole former Yugoslavia at the same time. Also how much do we owe them in reparations for the things that we stole?
    I personally am curious to know to whom will Skernderbeg belong too. Not that I have any particular affection for him, but let us understand each other (that even if I did, I would not dare say it in the open because I would be called a nationalist). I’m just very unclear if he will end up in Beograd, in Athens, in Istanbul or in Sofia.
    Sincerely I would not bet on it, even though I would side my self towards Athens. Not because of anything in particular but I’ve heard that Skenderbeg held himself to be a descendant of Pyrrhus of Epir (I hope these are not some ultra-nationalistic rumours) and I know very good that Epir in Greek means Greece. In fact not only Epir. Even the Pelasgians, and Macedonia, Illyria, the Etruscans, Troy, Constantinople, Thrace, Byzantium and before and after Christ, even Christ and everything else connected to the history and the Greek language is translated in to Greece.
    After we’ve thoroughly cleaned the ex-National ex-Historical ex-Museum, I would beg to the foreign scholars to hold a symposium titled:
    “The final definition of the correct birth date of the Albanian people” clearly orientating them to look for this answer in documents of the 11-th and 19-th century period, and to have as reference mainly Serbian authors, since they have been licensed as the best source for this topic. Let this date be defined once and for all, including the year, the month, the date, and the time. For example, let it be said: The Albanian Nation was born out of nothing on 16-th of February of the year 1372 period. Or, the Albanian nation arrived in the territories of today after a long voyage from the Himalayans, on the 22-nd of April of 1413, at 5:35 morning time, period. This is what I call scientifically correct. All others are suppositions.
    The results of this symposium, I would translate them in to every language of the Eastern Europe, places these which need a bit of Democratic culture to shine on them (since even today, 14 years after the fall of the Berlin wall, they are still being called “Ex-Democracies of the East” a term that verifies very well that even today they have fallen under the claws of dictatorships and dream of the bright days of the Democrat Stalin).
    Meanwhile we Albanians ( or whatever other nation we are of ) should not cross our hands and do nothing but we should actively be working with the cleaning process: excluding from out nation all those figures that are not Albanians. In the breath of the Parties’ Central Organization plenum, whom had mastered the craft of excluding, let us hit one by one all the dubious and unclear figures, starting from Ali Pasha of Tepelena (Greek), Bushatliu (Montenegrin), Fan Noli (American-Bulgarian), Ismail Kadare (French), Ismail Qemali and Naim Frasheri (Turks), Gjergj Fishta (Italian) and all the others, let us erase from their biography every bit of being Albanian. Actually this job should begin with the players of the National Team who play outside the country, because this way we will spare a lot of trouble to the next generations.
    After we’ve cleaned the square thoroughly, after we’ve cleaned the history and the actuality, after we have completely cleaned all of the figures, let’s go out and happily demonstrate arm in arm for the political parties, the pluralist internationalism, the Democratic Globalization, the good neighbourhood of the Balkans and the pure interethnic love.

    I onda cemo doci do pra pra Albanca - Ilira.

    Istina da se Balkan cesto zove Ilirija ali i Dalmacija(narocito Srbija).
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Akay : 12.01.2012. u 10:53
    Буди промена коју желиш да видиш у свету.

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    Podrazumevano

    Citat Original postavio Lesandar Pogledaj poruku
    In Greek mythology, King Haemus (Greek: Αἷμος, Haîmos) of Thrace was the son of Boreas. He was vain and haughty and compared himself and his wife, Queen Rhodope, to Zeus and Hera. The gods changed him and his wife into mountains (Haemus Mons and Rhodope Mountains, respectively). In ancient Greek, the Balkan Peninsula was thus known as the "Peninsula of Haemus" (Χερσόνησος τοῦ Αἵμου), a name which retains some currency in modern Greek.


    Дакле, пре ИЉИРИЈЕ.
    Isto je , ako vec ides prem Zeusa onda od njega poticu Dardanus i iIllyrian ..
    A ova terotirja nije nikome sumnjivo danas i svima poznato da se zvala Illyrija .

    Citat Original postavio Alhemym007 Pogledaj poruku
    I onda cemo doci do pra pra Albanca - Ilira.

    Istina da se Balkan cesto zove Ilirija ali i Dalmacija(narocito Srbija).
    To da je istina nema nikave sumnje .
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Akay : 12.01.2012. u 10:53 Razlog: spajanje poruka

  12. #12
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    An Unexpected Force Which Suddenly Appears and Resolves the Matter
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Arberi Pogledaj poruku
    A kakve veze ima Helm sada terotirijem Illyrije ?
    Ima ta rec i znacaj na Albanskom j.: http://translate.google.com/?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&text=rrjet%EB&sl=sq&tl=sr#sq|sr|%20helm
    У маљу боћица се држи најопасни хељмови.




    Па, ко је уопште нешто помињао Кавкаску браћу? ћути тамо и покриј се ушима.
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Lesandar : 07.04.2010. u 14:05
    "Velika seoba Slovena" i autohtonost Albanaca na Balkanu su lice i naličje iste "medalje" .

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Lesandar Pogledaj poruku


    Па, ко је уопште нешто помињао Кавкаску браћу? ћути тамо и покриј се ушима.
    Kavkasku bracu ?
    Vasih su oni
    MISLIM PREMA VASIM IZVORIMA
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Arberi : 07.04.2010. u 14:08

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Od sada uvek ovo ces imati kako kontra odgovor Milorade jer neprekidno spomenujes Kavkaz :

    Obrati pazhnju

    Srpski stari vek (16) - Piše: Miodrag Milanović
    Snažno kraljevstvo Srba sa Kavkaza
    U VIII veku cela oblast, severno od Kavkaza, naziva se Alanijom. Ovo kraljevstvo je bilo na vrhuncu svoje moći od XII do XIII veka, kada se oduprlo mongolsko-tatarskoj najezdi

    Porfirogenit u svom letopisu piše, pripadala Belim Srbima. Od oko 300.000 Sarmata koji su, napuštajući ranije teritorije, oko Crnog mora, pred najezdom Gota, kretali na zapad, njih skoro trećina je ostala u nepristupačnim karpatskim planinama. Dakle, prisustvo sarmatskog elementa u oblasti Karpata je bilo izvesno i sva ta plemena, ma kako se nazivala (Sarmati, Alani, Beli Srbi...), pripadala su istom etnikumu.
    Što se tiče Slovena na ovom prostoru, antički i rimski izvori ih znaju kao susede Sarmata. Tacit Publije Kornelije (55-117), uz Cezara, Livija i Plinija, najznačajniji rimski istoričar, piše da su Venedi (Sloveni) pozajmili mnogo sauromatskih običaja. Kaže, na primer, da se zbog mešovitih brakova izgled Slovena kvari, tako što postaju nalik Sarmatima (Srbima).

    Ovako tesni i izuzetno bliski kontakti Slovena i Sarmata najviše su verovatni u oblastima oko gornje Visle i zapadnog Prikarpatja, odnosno na prostoru gde su se kasnije pojavili Beli Srbi - mešavina Sarmata i Slovena. Epitet „beli“, kod Srba sa Karpata, nesumnjivo ima alansku tradiciju. Oni su, u ovoj planinskoj oblasti, pokorili slovensko stanovništvo, ali su ih, kasnije, ti isti Sloveni asimilirali. No, naziv Alana - Serboa (Srba) zadržao se kod potomaka koji su, slovenizovani, naselili Balkan.
    http://www.glas-javnosti.rs/clanak/feljton/glas-javnosti-04-08-2008/snazno-kraljevstvo-srba-sa-kavkaza
    ================================================== ====================================
    Obrati opet pazhnju

    Seobe od Kavkaza do Karpata i Saksonije



    SRPSKI STARI VEK - ETNOGENEZA SRBA

    Tokom vremena, potpavši pod brojnije Germane, Srbi sa sjevera, su se stopili sa njima. Srbi, došavši na jug, donijeli, su, pored običaja i religije, toponime iz ranije postojbine, poput naziva: Dobri Lug, Kamenica, Ribnica...

    Bojkovinu, oblast u današnjoj Ukrajini, nazivali su Srbijom, srpskom zemljom, ili zemljom Bojki, te da se ona nalazi "s one strane Turske i Mađarske, u susjedstvu Franačke, kao stara srpska domovina"

    U prvom veku posle Hrista, rimski zemljopisac Plinije pominje Srbe kod Kavkaza i Azovskog mora; zatim se, ovo ime, javlja između Dnjepra, Visle i Karpata, a potom, izuzetno često, u današnjoj Saksoniji i okolnim teritorijama. Srbi se, postepeno, pomiču iz Azije ka evropskom Zapadu. Karlo Veliki, vladar zapadne Evrope gotovo pedeset godina (768-814), pokorivši Saksonce, zavladao je i nekim srpskim zemljama, koje su Saksonci još ranije zadobili, ali je veći deo Srba, oko reka Sale i Labe, ostao ...
    http://www.glassrpske.com/vijest/14/feljton/17923/lat/Seobe-od-Kavkaza-do-Karpata-i-Saksonije.html


    Verujem da neces vise pisati o Kavkascima
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Arberi : 07.04.2010. u 14:20

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Arberi Pogledaj poruku
    Od sada uvek ovo ces imati kako kontra odgovor Milorade jer neprekidno spomenujes Kavkaz :

    Obrati pazhnju

    Srpski stari vek (16) - Piše: Miodrag Milanović
    Snažno kraljevstvo Srba sa Kavkaza
    U VIII veku cela oblast, severno od Kavkaza, naziva se Alanijom. Ovo kraljevstvo je bilo na vrhuncu svoje moći od XII do XIII veka, kada se oduprlo mongolsko-tatarskoj najezdi

    Porfirogenit u svom letopisu piše, pripadala Belim Srbima. Od oko 300.000 Sarmata koji su, napuštajući ranije teritorije, oko Crnog mora, pred najezdom Gota, kretali na zapad, njih skoro trećina je ostala u nepristupačnim karpatskim planinama. Dakle, prisustvo sarmatskog elementa u oblasti Karpata je bilo izvesno i sva ta plemena, ma kako se nazivala (Sarmati, Alani, Beli Srbi...), pripadala su istom etnikumu.
    Što se tiče Slovena na ovom prostoru, antički i rimski izvori ih znaju kao susede Sarmata. Tacit Publije Kornelije (55-117), uz Cezara, Livija i Plinija, najznačajniji rimski istoričar, piše da su Venedi (Sloveni) pozajmili mnogo sauromatskih običaja. Kaže, na primer, da se zbog mešovitih brakova izgled Slovena kvari, tako što postaju nalik Sarmatima (Srbima).

    Ovako tesni i izuzetno bliski kontakti Slovena i Sarmata najviše su verovatni u oblastima oko gornje Visle i zapadnog Prikarpatja, odnosno na prostoru gde su se kasnije pojavili Beli Srbi - mešavina Sarmata i Slovena. Epitet „beli“, kod Srba sa Karpata, nesumnjivo ima alansku tradiciju. Oni su, u ovoj planinskoj oblasti, pokorili slovensko stanovništvo, ali su ih, kasnije, ti isti Sloveni asimilirali. No, naziv Alana - Serboa (Srba) zadržao se kod potomaka koji su, slovenizovani, naselili Balkan.
    http://www.glas-javnosti.rs/clanak/feljton/glas-javnosti-04-08-2008/snazno-kraljevstvo-srba-sa-kavkaza
    ================================================== ====================================
    Obrati opet pazhnju

    Seobe od Kavkaza do Karpata i Saksonije

    Autor: Miodrag Milanović

    SRPSKI STARI VEK - ETNOGENEZA SRBA

    Tokom vremena, potpavši pod brojnije Germane, Srbi sa sjevera, su se stopili sa njima. Srbi, došavši na jug, donijeli, su, pored običaja i religije, toponime iz ranije postojbine, poput naziva: Dobri Lug, Kamenica, Ribnica...

    Bojkovinu, oblast u današnjoj Ukrajini, nazivali su Srbijom, srpskom zemljom, ili zemljom Bojki, te da se ona nalazi "s one strane Turske i Mađarske, u susjedstvu Franačke, kao stara srpska domovina"

    U prvom veku posle Hrista, rimski zemljopisac Plinije pominje Srbe kod Kavkaza i Azovskog mora; zatim se, ovo ime, javlja između Dnjepra, Visle i Karpata, a potom, izuzetno često, u današnjoj Saksoniji i okolnim teritorijama. Srbi se, postepeno, pomiču iz Azije ka evropskom Zapadu. Karlo Veliki, vladar zapadne Evrope gotovo pedeset godina (768-814), pokorivši Saksonce, zavladao je i nekim srpskim zemljama, koje su Saksonci još ranije zadobili, ali je veći deo Srba, oko reka Sale i Labe, ostao ...
    http://www.glassrpske.com/vijest/14/feljton/17923/lat/Seobe-od-Kavkaza-do-Karpata-i-Saksonije.html


    Verujem da neces vise pisati o Kavkascima
    Оће Вандалија некад да подивља кад узме чашицу превише .
    "Velika seoba Slovena" i autohtonost Albanaca na Balkanu su lice i naličje iste "medalje" .

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    starosrpska rec HUM pa dokle vise Mrki.sramota ti je stran pojam haha

    rijec hum pripada predslavenskoj balkanskoj kulturi Mrki Mrki

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Mrkalj Pogledaj poruku
    Poznato je da je antički naziv za Balkan bilo Hem, a ja, da se priključim ludacima, kažem da je to starosrpska rěč za brěg koja danas glasi hum, od starijeg hlm gdě je h ozvučeno u grčki transkribovano kao Hem ili Helm.

    Ujedno, Hlm tj. Hulm tj. Chelmia je staro ime Hrcegovine.


    Balkan Mountains

    [...]

    In earlier times the mountains were known as the Haemus Mons...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Mountains


    Balkans

    [...]

    Etymology and evolving meaning
    The region takes its name from the Stara Planina mountain range in Bulgaria, commonly known as the Balkan Mountains (from the Turkish balkan meaning "a chain of wooded mountains")...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_peninsula#Etymology_and_evolving_meaning

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Mrkalj Pogledaj poruku
    Pogađate da je ovaj naslov ujedno metafora.

    Misha Glenny in his book "The Balkans" published in 1999, writes:

    "The difficulty in defining the Balkans arises from the conflation of political and geographic descriptions that are themselves problematic. The term Balkan peninsula is modern, coined by the German geographer, Johann August Zeune, in 1808. It arose from a long-standing misconception that the Balkan mountain range, the backbone of present-day Bulgaria, did not taper out in eastern Serbia (as is the case) but stretched unbroken from the Black Sea to the Adriatic. It took a century for this inaccurate description to eclipse other classical or geo-political names, like Turkey-in-Europe or the Near East. [When it comes to defining what is meant by the name 'Balkan', he observes,] a consensus has never been found."

    http://www.roconsulboston.com/Pages/InfoPages/Commentary/Balkan.html
    Не си губи времето с Миша Глени. Прочети класическото изследване по въпроса:

    Do not waste your time with Misha Glenny. Read the classical study on the matter:

    Maria Todorova, "Imagining the Balkans", Oxford University Press, 1997.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagining_the_Balkans
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Crni Bugarin : 07.04.2010. u 15:08

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    An Unexpected Force Which Suddenly Appears and Resolves the Matter
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio čvrsnica Pogledaj poruku
    starosrpska rec HUM pa dokle vise Mrki.sramota ti je stran pojam haha

    rijec hum pripada predslavenskoj balkanskoj kulturi Mrki Mrki
    Зар та предславенска култура није била романизована?

    Монте ? или као би овдашњи рекли Мнћ.

    Значи, само балканска реч?

    WORD: холм

    GENERAL: I, род. п. -а́, народн. холо́м, род. п. холма́ (см. Шахматов, ИОРЯС 7, I, 305), укр. холм, др.-русск. хълмъ, ст.-слав. хлъмъ βουνός, ὄρος (Остром., Еuсh. Sin., Супр.), болг. хълм (Младенов 673), сербохорв. ху̑м, род. п. ху́ма, словен. hòlm, род. п. hólma, чеш. chlum, .слвц. chlm, польск. Сhеɫm, Cheɫmno и т. п., в.-луж. khoɫm, н.-луж. chóɫm.


    Чврки, Чврки
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Lesandar : 07.04.2010. u 16:04
    "Velika seoba Slovena" i autohtonost Albanaca na Balkanu su lice i naličje iste "medalje" .

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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Balkan je turska rec
    pravo je HEMUS

  21. #21
    Mrkalj nije na forumu
    Demokratski izabrani koordinator istoriografske revolucije na Slovenskom Jugu
    Elita Mrkalj (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Pravo je Hum.

    Rěč hum, ponavljam za nepismenog Čvrleta srbendu:

    hum m. 〈N mn. húmovi〉

    1. omanje brdo pod travom
    2. (Hum) istorijski (u nekim izvorima) Hercegovina

    ✧ prasl. *xъlmъ (stsl. xlъmъ, rus. xolm, češ. chlum)

    "Balkan" comes from a Turkish word meaning "a chain of wooded mountains".[1] The ancient Greek name for the Balkan Peninsula was the "Peninsula of Haemus” (Χερσόνησος τοῦ Αἵμου, Chersónēsos tou Haímou). The Balkans are also referred to as Southeastern Europe.

    Dakle, kako ćemo, brdo na Turskom (Balkan) ili brdo na srpskom (Haímou / Hlm)?

    Imamo i reč Homolje (=Humlje) od istog srpskog korěna, zatim humka kao deminutiv od hum i još něke koje čuvam za kasnije. Sve su srpsk rěči.

    PS. Narvno da nije HEMUS jer je ono -us latinski sufiks. Grčki je Αἵμ(ου) a čita se Haímou. Ako zanemarimo grčki imenski sufiks, dobijamo haim od satrosrpskog h[a]lm. - хълм Ne bi me čudilo da je latinsko hum, koje označava tlo (humus) upravo od srpskog hum. Jar, zapazite koje su idiotsko objašnjenje dali, humus http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=humus

    1796, from L. humus "earth, soil," probably from humi "on the ground," from PIE *ghom- (cf. Gk. khamai "on the ground," Lith. zeme, O.C.S. zemlja "earth," L. humilis "low"). Related: Humous (adj.).

  22. #22
    Mrkalj nije na forumu
    Demokratski izabrani koordinator istoriografske revolucije na Slovenskom Jugu
    Elita Mrkalj (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Lesandar Pogledaj poruku

    WORD: холм

    GENERAL: I, род. п. -а́, народн. холо́м, род. п. холма́ (см. Шахматов, ИОРЯС 7, I, 305), укр. холм, др.-русск. хълмъ, ст.-слав. хлъмъ βουνός, ὄρος (Остром., Еuсh. Sin., Супр.), болг. хълм (Младенов 673), сербохорв. ху̑м, род. п. ху́ма, словен. hòlm, род. п. hólma, чеш. chlum, .слвц. chlm, польск. Сhеɫm, Cheɫmno и т. п., в.-луж. khoɫm, н.-луж. chóɫm.
    Браво.

  23. #23
    Domaćin
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Citat Original postavio Mrkalj Pogledaj poruku
    Pravo je Hum.

    Rěč hum, ponavljam za nepismenog Čvrleta srbendu:

    hum m. 〈N mn. húmovi〉

    1. omanje brdo pod travom
    2. (Hum) istorijski (u nekim izvorima) Hercegovina

    ✧ prasl. *xъlmъ (stsl. xlъmъ, rus. xolm, češ. chlum)

    "Balkan" comes from a Turkish word meaning "a chain of wooded mountains".[1] The ancient Greek name for the Balkan Peninsula was the "Peninsula of Haemus” (Χερσόνησος τοῦ Αἵμου, Chersónēsos tou Haímou). The Balkans are also referred to as Southeastern Europe.

    Dakle, kako ćemo, brdo na Turskom (Balkan) ili brdo na srpskom (Haímou / Hlm)?

    Imamo i reč Homolje (=Humlje) od istog srpskog korěna, zatim humka kao deminutiv od hum i još něke koje čuvam za kasnije. Sve su srpsk rěči.

    PS. Narvno da nije HEMUS jer je ono -us latinski sufiks. Grčki je Αἵμ(ου) a čita se Haímou. Ako zanemarimo grčki imenski sufiks, dobijamo haim od satrosrpskog h[a]lm. - хълм Ne bi me čudilo da je latinsko hum, koje označava tlo (humus) upravo od srpskog hum. Jar, zapazite koje su idiotsko objašnjenje dali, humus http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=humus

    1796, from L. humus "earth, soil," probably from humi "on the ground," from PIE *ghom- (cf. Gk. khamai "on the ground," Lith. zeme, O.C.S. zemlja "earth," L. humilis "low"). Related: Humous (adj.).
    Дами и господа, моля, аплодирайте този нов Деретич.

    Ladies and gentlemen, please applaud this new Deretic.

  24. #24
    Veoma poznat Moračanin (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Evo nađoh da ime BALKAN ili BAL (velika) KAN (majka), znači velika majka.
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...l=si&inlang=pl

  25. #25
    Primećen član M. Rokvić (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko je izmislio Balkan?

    Хум је, као што је већ речено, српска реч словенског порекла и није у питању никаква нити "балканска" нити предсловенска реч. Ево шта Петар Скок наводи, вероватно поред свега наведеног и ово може бити интересантно:

    hum, gen. huma (1388, Vuk), sveslav. i praslav. *hъlmъ, »sinonimi: brežuljak, glavica«. Veoma raširen toponim. Odatle deminutivi na -ьc húmac, gen. húmca (Vuk), također raširen toponim, na -ъk humak, gen. -mka m (Srbija) = prema f humka »granično brdašce«. Pridjevi: na -ьn human (soba je humna, Banja Luka) »sinonimi: župan, prisojan«, poimeničan sa -ina hȕmnina (Hercegovina) »planinska zemlja (protivno: brdovita)«, na -ast humast, na -ski humski, na -ovit humòvit. Kol. hȗmlje. Upor. ime zemlje Zahumlje (već kod Porfirogenita *za hъlmom > zahlumi pl.). Vokal u je nastao iz sonantnog l: stcslav. hъlmъ, polj. chelm, rus. holm, bug. hălm. Madžari posudiše halom, Rumunji hum. Miklešičev rum. humui (-ui < -ovati, uji) ne nalazim u rječnicima. Uzimlje se (zadnji je Machek) da je praslav. posuđenica iz germ. *hmas. To mišljenje ne potvrđuje oblik hlȃm (Istra, čakavski) »idem«, naziv najvećeg brda na Krku, koji pretpostavlja slav. prijevoj *holmt kao mlan pored mun (v.). Germanske posuđenice ne pokazuju slavenskog prijevoja. Berneker stavlja krivo hlam pod ruski hlam »Plunder, Trödel, Gerumpel«. Jedanput je potvrđen oblik hlime, gen. hlimena u 17. v., koji je nastao možda unakrštavanjem s ikavskim slime (ŽK) < sleme (v.). Nije dovoljno potvrđeno. Nema druge nego prihvatiti Brücknerovo i Mladenovo mišljenje da je hum u prasrodstvu s germanskom riječi, da je germ.-slav. leksička paralela od ie. *skulm-, bez pokretnog s, a glede sufiksa -m upor. lat. collis i culmen (odatle internacionalne riječi kulminirati, kulminacija). Od ie. kal- je lit. kelmas »vrh« (i čelo, v.) također s istim sufiksom -m.
    Као да су звезде мале све у твоје очи стале
    Тако твоје очи горе, лепше него рујне зоре

    - М. Роквић

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