Ko li im je tata?
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  1. #1
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    Podrazumevano Ko li im je tata?

    U gradu Vernigerodeu okupili se rođeni u okviru nacističkog programa "Lebensborn"
    Zla sudbina Himlerovih kumčića
    Nekolicina od nekoliko hiljada Nemaca, rođenih u okviru nacističkog programa kojim je trebalo da se stvori arijevska superrasa, sastalo se u nemačkom gradu Vernigerodeu da bi se zajednički suočilo s bolnom prošlošću.

    Sada već vremešni ljudi s mukom se bore da uđu u trag svojim pravim korenima.
    Grupu ljudi koja se za vikend sastala u Vernigerodeu činili su predstavnici nekoliko hiljada Nemaca, rođenih u okviru programa "Lebensborn" ("Proleće života"), čiji je idejni otac bio Hajnrih Himler, prvi čovek ozloglašenih SS jedinica, piše londonski Tajms.

    Najveći deo dosijea iz tog programa spaljen je posle Drugog svetskog rata. Tračak nade da će najzad saznati ko su im biološki roditelji ovim ljudima dala su dokumenta, nađena na tavanu klinike u Vernigerodeu. Inače, program "Lebensborn" idejno se vezivao uz esesovce i bio je osmišljen da ohrabri "čistokrvne Nemice" da prihvate decu "arijevskih atributa" - svetla put, plava kosa i plave oči. "Lebensborn" je počeo s radom krajem 1935, u jeku porasta vanbračnih trudnoća kao posledice manjka muškaraca posle Prvog svetskog rata. "Lebensborn" je devojkama omogućavao da se porode anonimno, daleko od kuće, i preuzimao decu koja bi potom bila usvajana. Među očevima te dece najčešće su bili i oženjeni SS oficiri koji su poslušno izvršavali Himlerovo naređenje da "šire svoje arijevsko seme". Da bi se žena porodila na nekoj od "Lebensborn" klinika morala je da dokaže da su i njeni i preci oca deteta arijevci. Deca su krštavana u SS ritualu u kojem je iznad bebe držan nož dok se majka zaklinjala na odanost naci-ideologiji.

    Hitler je verovao da je "nordijskoj rasi" sudbinski predodređeno da vlada svetom, ali mnoga od dece iz programa "Lebensborn" završila su i na psihijatriji ne mogavši da se pomire sa esesovskim žigom.

    Guntram Veber (63), profesor iz Berlina, tek nedavno je saznao da je bio Himlerovo kumče, ali i da mu je otac bio SS general-major. "Sumnjao sam da me majka laže decenijama. Pričala mi je da je otac vozio kamion za Luftvafe i da je umro u Hrvatskoj. Ali, nikada mi nije pokazala ijedan dokument ili sliku", kaže Veber, dodajući da je u potragu krenuo pre pet godina na očuhov mig posle čega je saznao da mu je otac bio ratni zločinac, da je bio oženjen i otac još troje dece kada je majka zatrudnela s njim. Umro je 1970. u Argentini. Oko 8.000 "Lebensbornovih" mališana rođeno je u Nemačkoj i još 12.000 u okupiranoj Norveškoj pošto su nemački vojnici bili ohrabrivani da rađaju decu sa ženama "vikinške krvi". Deca rođena sa i najmanjom manom bila su ubijana. Na tlu Nemačke i Austrije bilo je 14 "Lebensbornovih" klinika, u Norveškoj 9, ali postojale su i u Francuskoj, Belgiji, Holandiji, Poljskoj..., podseća Tajms.

    Pripremila S. Đ. P.


    (Glas Javnosti)

    P.S. Jeste li primetili ako Hitler ima tipicno nordijski izgled?

    P.P.S. OPS! Opet neka antisemitska zavera sa moje strane...ja se stvarno izvinjavam...



  2. #2
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    adolg bez brkova:


    inace, ne znam zasto si postovao bas to...to je bilo oduvek poznato i nije cudno....
    nemoj samo da me ubedjujes da su hitler i gebels u stvari jevreji...
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  3. #3
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Necu da te ubedjujem.....

    There is a great deal of confusion in studying Hitler's family tree. Adolf's father, Alois Hitler, was the illegitimate son of Maria Anna Schicklgruber. It was generally supposed that the father of Alois Hitler was Johann Georg Hiedler.... Alois, however, was not legitimized, and he bore his mother's name until he was forty years of age when he changed it to Hitler.

    A peculiar series of events, prior to Hitler's birth, furnishes plenty of food for speculation.

    There are some people who seriously doubt that Johann Georg Hiedler was the father of Alois. Thyssen and Koehler, for example, claim that Chancellor Dolfuss (the Chancellor of Austria) had ordered the Austrian police to conduct a thorough investigation into the Hitler family. As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared that proved Maria Anna Shicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived.

    At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was bom.5

    In a postscript in Langer's book, Robert G.L. Waite adds this comment:

    "But even when Langer is mistaken and his guesses prove incorrect, he is often on the right track.

    Consider his hint that Hitler's grandfather might have been a Jew. There is no reason to believe the unlikely story told by Langer's informant that Hitler's grandmother Maria Anna Schickelgruber, a peasant woman in her forties from the Waldvietral of rural Austria, had had an intimate liason with a Baron Rothschild in Vienna.

    But Hitler had worried that he might be blackmailed over a Jewish grandfather and ordered his private lawyer, Hans Frank, to investigate his paternal lineage.

    Frank did so and told the Fuehrer that his grandmother had become pregnant while working as a domestic servant in a Jewish household in Graz.

    The facts of this matter are in dispute—and a very lengthy dispute it has been. The point of overriding psychological and historical importance is not whether it is true that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather, but whether he believed that it might be true.

    He did so believe and the fact shaped both his personality and his public policy.6

    It is possible that Hitler discovered his Jewish background and his relation to the Rothschilds, and aware of their enormous power to make or break European governments, re-established contact with the family. This would partially explain the enormous support he received from the international banking fraternity, closely entwined with the Rothschild family, as he rose to power.

    One thing is certain, however. Hitler started World War II by moving into Austria first. It has been theorized that he moved into this country for two reasons. First, he wanted to silence Dolfuss who Hitler believed knew that he was a descendant of the Rothschilds, and secondly, he wished to remove all traces of his ancestry from the Austrian records.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    poznata mi je ta prica, medjutim ona nema realnog osnova...sve se svodi na - mozda....
    inace, sto se tice teme....
    ovo smatram jednim od prvih genetickih eksperimenata, i to vrlo uspesnim. kada gledas te ljude, iako vidis da su babe i dede, vidis da su jednosatvno - lepi....a dobar deo njih je doziveo i solidnu starost...
    naravno, ne opravdavam to, takva izolacija je po meni skroz kretenska.....
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  6. #6
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Ober, ti si, bre, nacista!

  7. #7
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    nisam bre...
    samo komentarisem to...
    mislim, ako je ovo neka ironija - ok....
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  8. #8
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Nije OK, ako je ironija. Bila je shala, a to je OK.

  9. #9
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    dobro, onda neka bude sala....
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  10. #10
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  11. #11
    Iskusan Silent Bob (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Hitler nije bio Nord, vec tipican Alpinid!

  12. #12
    Domaćin Mafijaš (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    no comennt....

  13. #13
    Buduća legenda
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    ako, ako..nije to lose...sieg.... eu lebenstraum.

  14. #14
    Domaćin JABUCHILO (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    liebe, liebe europa
    liebe demokratische reich...
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la JABUCHILO : 07.11.2006. u 10:47
    batina ima dva kraja,
    k___c ima jedan kraj -
    a praznom divanu nigde kraja.

  15. #15
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    ne pevaju brate uzalud rammstein...

    We're all living in Amerika
    Amerika ist wunderbar...

  16. #16
    Zaslužan član eremita (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    У мамицу му луду, том Хитлеру.......ужас..........
    БИТИ СЛОБОДАН означава стање у којем субјект може деловати без присиле и забране.


  17. #17
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio King David
    ne mogu da pristupim sajtu....
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  18. #18
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    @Ober

    Hitler's Jewish Soldiers: The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military
    Canadian Journal of History, Dec 2004 by Schroer, Timothy L
    Hitler's Jewish Soldiers: The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military, by Bryan Mark Rigg. Modern War Studies. Lawrence, Kansas, University Press of Kansas, 2002. xxi, 433 pp. $29.95 US (cloth), $16.95 US (paper).

    In 1935, the Third Reich's Nuremberg racial laws declared Jews to be second-class citizens. Those laws defined a Jew as anyone with at least three Jewish grandparents. In addition, individuals having two Jewish grandparents and who were members of the Jewish religious community or who were married to Jews were legally classified as Jews. The Nuremberg race laws created two additional categories of people. So-called Mischlinge of the first degree (half-Jews) were individuals with two Jewish grandparents. Mischlinge of the second degree (quarter-Jews) had one. The Nuremberg laws further provided that Adolf Hitler was vested with the power to free individuals from the legal restrictions. Hitler, in fact, granted hundreds of such exemptions, including elevating many people with some Jewish ancestry to the status of "German-blooded."

    The Nazi state's continually improvised, and sometimes inconsistent, policy toward the Mischlinge reflected ambivalence about their status. Initially, Mischlinge avoided suffering directly from the growing restrictions that targeted Jews in Nazi Germany. Over the succeeding ten years, the regime increasingly extended its anti-Semitic policies against the Mischlinge, eventually condemning Mischlinge of the first degree to forced labour. The fate of individuals depended on innumerable factors. Those with influential friends, demonstrated service to the Reich or Nazi party, or an "Aryan" appearance had better chances of avoiding persecution, but the caprice of Hitler and his subordinates was unpredictable.

    Advertisement

    Rigg's book focuses on the large number of Mischlinge and handful of Jews who served in the German armed forces. It is based on an impressive body of original research. He conducted interviews with 430 people, many of whom also donated their privately-held documents. Rigg has done a considerable service in collecting these materials and providing them to the Bundesarchiv-Militararchiv in Freiburg, Germany. Specialists in the history of the Third Reich have been aware for some time of the curious situation of the Mischlinge. Rigg has contributed a substantial amplification of that prior work.

    The book is strongest where it draws on those new primary sources and oral histories to flesh out the biographies of the Mischlinge caught up in the Third Reich. Some soldiers successfully hid their Jewish background. Some whose Jewish background was known managed to obtain individual approval from Hitler to serve in the military, and a smaller number received the validation of being deemed of German blood. Most of the Mischlinge felt fully German and resisted the regime's ascribing Jewish-ness to them. Some were openly anti-Semitic. Many served in the army out of support for the state, although others recount seeking to protect Jewish relatives. A few short, individual studies included by Rigg late in the book most effectively illuminate the peculiar situation in which Germans with Jewish ancestors found themselves. It might have been better to organize the book around the biographical sketches, because the coherence of individual stories is sometimes lost amid the chaotic workings of the polycratic Nazi state.

    The book's most ambitious claims concern what the Mischlinge knew about the Holocaust. Rigg here approaches in a new way a question that has preoccupied historians of the Third Reich. Rigg offers a sweeping assessment. "Did Germans understand what was happening to Jews during the war? This study has shown that the answer is no" (p. 263). It is certainly striking to learn that Mischlinge interned in concentration camps recall being surprised following the war's conclusion to learn of the industrialized mass killing at the extermination camps. As Rigg recognizes elsewhere in the book, however, Mischlinge and other Germans had direct knowledge of essential elements of what the regime was doing to the Jews, including legal discrimination, public vilification, deportations, and killings. The detailed workings of the death camps were widely rumored, but directly experienced by few Germans. Oral histories, however, represent a problematic source for reconstructing what people knew, suspected, or refused to recognize more than fifty years ago. Rigg's book does offer important new evidence on the question, but his conclusion is ultimately too broad.

    Rigg's subject is fascinating and his material is rich, but the book's organization makes it problematic for undergraduate or non-specialist readers. The fundamentals of the Nazi racial laws defining the status of Mischlinge are not explained until the fourth chapter. The position and personalities of central players like Hans Lammers and Martin Bormann are not addressed until the eighth chapter. Some readers will be confused.


    Ovo ti je sa tog sajta

  19. #19
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    Vec sam pominjao cionisticku kolaboraciju sa nacistima, jer su se neki obrusili na Panarbizam, pritom, svesno izbegavajuci da natuknu da su i Jevreji saradjivali sa nacistima, bas kao i Arapi, tokom WW2. To je daleko uzasniji cin, ako imamo u vidu sta je napisano o Jevrejima u "Mein Kampf"

  20. #20
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    @eremita

    I mamicu i babicu -droljicu, a i dedicu...Rothshielda

  21. #21
    Domaćin giovaniI (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio Obersturmfuehrer
    poznata mi je ta prica, medjutim ona nema realnog osnova...sve se svodi na - mozda....
    inace, sto se tice teme....
    ovo smatram jednim od prvih genetickih eksperimenata, i to vrlo uspesnim. kada gledas te ljude, iako vidis da su babe i dede, vidis da su jednosatvno - lepi....a dobar deo njih je doziveo i solidnu starost...
    naravno, ne opravdavam to, takva izolacija je po meni skroz kretenska.....
    E sad mi je jasno,nacisto,zasto se ti jezis kad neko od nas pomene Kosovo,Veliku Srbiju,srpstvo,...pa to si dojcer pravi i daj oladi,..

  22. #22
    Zainteresovan član Witch-king of Angmar (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Давиде, извини, али открио си топлу воду са тим текстовима. Да је у Хитлеровој армији, па чак и на високим положајима, било људи који по нирнбершким расним законима нису били "аријевци" одавно је познато сваком историчару. Генералфелдмаршал Ерхард Милх, на пример: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Milch

    О везама између циониста и националсоцијалиста пре рата писали су еминентни историчари: Јан Кершо у двотомној биографији Хитлера, Хајнц Хене у књизи "Ред мртвачке главе: историја Хитлеровог СС-а", Гвидо Кноп у бројним својим публикацијама итд.

  23. #23
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    Ma, nema potrebe da mi se izvinjavas. Nisam text ostavio da bih otkrivao toplu vodu, vec, jednostavno, zato sto sam mislio da Ober ili neko drugi nije znao za te podatke. Ovo je forum, razmenjujemo informacije i misljenja, ne takmicimo se kao u nekom kvizu. Meni je neobicno drago da ti te podatke znas.I svako ko mi iznese nesto zanimljivo a da ja to ne znam - dobrodosao je. Nismo na sajmu tashtine.

  24. #24
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    poznato je meni sve to, i jos mnogo drugih stvari, ali taj rat ne gledam sa politicke strane, tako da mi je svejedno pa da su marsovci imali sopstvene ss odrede...
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

  25. #25
    Elita Svabov (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Ko li im je tata?

    Citat Original postavio giovaniI
    E sad mi je jasno,nacisto,zasto se ti jezis kad neko od nas pomene Kosovo,Veliku Srbiju,srpstvo,...pa to si dojcer pravi i daj oladi,..
    sta ti je jasno? ne pricaj svasta...
    neka naucna dostignuca ne mozes da osporis nacistima pa da se usadis na glavu...o tome se radi, a ne o stvaranju super-rase....
    Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?

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