Ukrajina gubi podršku? Javljaju se prvi znaci zamora Ukrajinom

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US officials have reportedly warned the Ukrainian government in private that it needs to signal an openness to negotiating with Russia.

Officials in Washington have warned that “Ukraine fatigue” among allies could worsen if Kyiv continues to be closed to negotiations, the Washington Post reported. US officials told the paper that Ukraine’s position on negotiations with Russia is wearing thin among allies who are worried about the economic effects of a protracted war.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said Ukraine is only prepared to enter negotiations with Russia if its troops leave all parts of Ukraine, including Crimea and the eastern areas of the Donbas, de facto controlled by Russia since 2014, and if those Russians who have committed crimes in Ukraine face trial.

Zelenskiy also made clear that he would not hold negotiations with the current Russian leadership. Last month, he signed a decree specifying that Ukraine would only negotiate with a Russian president who has succeeded Vladimir Putin.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium, which was recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation.Photograph: Ukrainian Presidential Press Service/Reuters

The US has so far given Ukraine $18.9bn (£16.6bn) worth of aid and is ready to give more, saying it will support Ukraine for as long as it takes. However, allies in parts of Europe, Africa and Latin America, US officials told the Post, are concerned by the strain that the war is putting on energy and food prices as well as supply chains.

“Ukraine fatigue is a real thing for some of our partners,” one US official said.

US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate not to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain the support of concerned allies, according to the Post.

For Ukrainian officials, the US’s request would mean reneging on several months of rhetoric about the need for a decisive military defeat against Russia in order to secure Ukraine’s security in the long term – a message that strongly resonates with the Ukrainian population who fear Russia will only try again to capture the country in the future.

The atrocities, deaths and destruction caused by Russia’s invasion have made negotiations unpalatable to many Ukrainians, particularly as the mood in Ukraine is buoyant after a string of successes on the battlefield in the north-east Kharkiv and southern Kherson regions.

Despite the strong rhetoric, losing allied support could have repercussions for Ukraine, particularly in terms of sanctions. The veteran diplomat Alexander Vershbow told the Post that “if the conditions become more propitious for negotiations, I don’t think the [US] administration is going to be passive”.

Russian officials have said Kyiv is preparing to attempt a second offensive to retake more of the occupied Kherson region. Recapturing it, regardless of being woefully out of reach of Ukrainian Armed Forces, would have immense symbolic and logistical value for Ukraine as Russia wants the area to secure a water supply to Crimea as well as a land bridge to Russia. In a statement on Telegram, the Russian-controlled Kherson administration said electricity and water supplies were down after a “terrorist attack” damaged three power lines in the occupied part of the region.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report


Da li Ukrajina gubi podršku Zapada? Javljaju se prvi znaci zamora Ukrajinom, jedino pitanje je tajming - da li se Vašington, London i Brisel pribojavaju dolazeće zime i nezadovoljstva birača kod kuće - uglavnom zbog osetnih posledica ekonomskog rata potiv Rusije, ili možda ne žele da se Ukrajina i dalje napreže, iz straha od njenog vojničkog poraza? Jasno je da bi sve što ne bi moglo da se na Zapadu predstavi kao ukrajinska pobeda izazvalo veliki pad prestiža Amerike u očima prosečnog Evropljanina, ali bi sve što ne bi bio ograničeni poraz Ukrajine značilo i pad ugleda i uticaja Sjedinjenih Država na svetskoj sceni. Ne treba sumnjati da će se Pax Americana vrlo brzo naći na puno ozbiljnijim iskušenjima, naime, Kina je skoro dostigla Ameriku ekonomski, i više nije spremna da toleriše svoju odmetnutu provinciju Tajvan kao nepotopivi američki nosač aviona uz svoju obalu.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Uočljiv je i Bajdenov račun bez krčmara - vršiće pritsak na Ukrajinu, ukoliko situacija bude tome pogodovala, ali je svojom arogancijom sebe lišio svake mogućnosti za vršenje uticaja na Rusiju bez izazivanja velikog rata u Evropi, jednog sukoba koji bi počeo upotrebom taktičkog nuklearnog oružja, a po svoj prilici završio strateškim udarima. Jedino je pitanje da li bi se proširio i na područja van EU, Ukrajine i Belorusije.
 
TikTok generacija je već totalno smorena ovim višemesečnim sukobom. Nagledali su se raznih oružja i sada još preostaje da se eventualno vidi nuklearka. Ako to izostane - menjaju kanal.

Koliko su se nama na Balkanu bavili (medijsku propagandu ne računam)? Obični ljudi? Većinu nije bilo briga ni vesti od deset sekundi dnevno da pogledaju. A rat u ex-yu nije uticao na njihov standard. Možeš misliti što je nekoga iz Zapadne Evrope briga što se neka dva istočnoevropska naroda tuku među sobom! Ali ih jeste briga što se to odražava na njihov komfor.

Ljudi su sve manje empatični, a od prevelike zloupotrebe raznih šokantnih slika i sadržaja - oguglali su i postali neosetljivi na ljudsku patnju. Gledaju leševe, grobnice, ljude bez struje i vode i grickaju kokice. Može ih eventualno slika neke povređene životinje potresti. Inače ljudske žrtve nemaju više velikog uticaja na prosečnog čoveka. Svaki dan čitaju i gledaju - neko stradao u zemljotresu, neko od poplave, ovde se ratuje, onde se ratuje, još jedan ludak poubijao pola škole, obračun kriminalnih klanova... Gubi se reakcija.

Osim toga, svi imaju probleme. Ljudi su ogorčeni kad čuju koliko se novca izdvaja za Ukrajinu i što se od njih očekuje da sažaljevaju neke Ukrajince (koji im nisu ništa, a i nisu neke cvećke) dok nikoga nije briga što se - recimo - desila elementarna nepogoda u njihovom mestu ili su izgubili posao zbog krize i slično.

Ne poznajem Zapadnog Evropljanina koji voli Amerikance i ima dobro mišljenje o njima. Uglavnom im se podsmevaju i kritikuju njihovu spoljnu politiku. Čak Englezi u tome prednjače. Bar su takva moja iskustva. Na stranu politika određenih zemalja, prosečan čovek je nešto sasvim drugo.

Očekivati od bilo koga da se žrtvuje zbog komšije iz zgrade, a kamoli nekoga iz zemlje par hiljada kilometara daleko je - prosto smešno. Uvek je bilo nerealno, a danas više nego ikad.
 
Jedino je pitanje da li bi se proširio i na područja van EU, Ukrajine i Belorusije.
uopste ne mora da pocne na starom kontinentu, ja cak mislim i da nece vec nam sledi nastavak KOViD, usavrsenog da zaista ubija

nuklearnim se zvecka na pacifiku

US To Station More Nuke-Capable Assets In Korea


pa ka'e:

Austin threatened to use nuclear weapons against North Korea at the press conference. Last week, Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said Washington was prepared to deploy its nukes to defend Seoul.

ne znam zasto kina i rusija cute na ovu nuklearnu pretnju, neko drugi? koliko ja znam granice se sa korejom, severnom valjda? kim obecao da ce putinu da salje vojsku silnu? kako sad putin cuti kao piccka na ove NUKLEARNE pretnje debelom kimu, a srali su da ce rusija prva da upotrebi nuklearno? kina? a jes sad se setih, rusi su ispalili tamo 1 bulavu, kao to je replika ''zapadu'', kom zapadu bem vas tupave? https://srbin.info/svet/der-spiegel-putinova-poruka-iz-belog-mora-uzdrmala-zapad/
Запад је уверен да је прошли догађај, политички сигнал САД и њиховим савезницима у НАТО. Путин је показао својим геополитичким ривалима, да његова земља има довољно моћи, да одговори на њихову потенцијалну агресију.
agresiju na koga? pa ako ne smemo na rusiju, smemo na koga god drugog nam prdne
ne razgovara se tako crvenim dugmicima, nista jos niste naucili... kao kisa oko kragujevca...
 
Poslednja izmena:
Pogledajte prilog 1251620Pogledajte prilog 1251621

US officials have reportedly warned the Ukrainian government in private that it needs to signal an openness to negotiating with Russia.

Officials in Washington have warned that “Ukraine fatigue” among allies could worsen if Kyiv continues to be closed to negotiations, the Washington Post reported. US officials told the paper that Ukraine’s position on negotiations with Russia is wearing thin among allies who are worried about the economic effects of a protracted war.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said Ukraine is only prepared to enter negotiations with Russia if its troops leave all parts of Ukraine, including Crimea and the eastern areas of the Donbas, de facto controlled by Russia since 2014, and if those Russians who have committed crimes in Ukraine face trial.

Zelenskiy also made clear that he would not hold negotiations with the current Russian leadership. Last month, he signed a decree specifying that Ukraine would only negotiate with a Russian president who has succeeded Vladimir Putin.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium, which was recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation.Photograph: Ukrainian Presidential Press Service/Reuters

The US has so far given Ukraine $18.9bn (£16.6bn) worth of aid and is ready to give more, saying it will support Ukraine for as long as it takes. However, allies in parts of Europe, Africa and Latin America, US officials told the Post, are concerned by the strain that the war is putting on energy and food prices as well as supply chains.

“Ukraine fatigue is a real thing for some of our partners,” one US official said.

US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate not to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain the support of concerned allies, according to the Post.

For Ukrainian officials, the US’s request would mean reneging on several months of rhetoric about the need for a decisive military defeat against Russia in order to secure Ukraine’s security in the long term – a message that strongly resonates with the Ukrainian population who fear Russia will only try again to capture the country in the future.

The atrocities, deaths and destruction caused by Russia’s invasion have made negotiations unpalatable to many Ukrainians, particularly as the mood in Ukraine is buoyant after a string of successes on the battlefield in the north-east Kharkiv and southern Kherson regions.

Despite the strong rhetoric, losing allied support could have repercussions for Ukraine, particularly in terms of sanctions. The veteran diplomat Alexander Vershbow told the Post that “if the conditions become more propitious for negotiations, I don’t think the [US] administration is going to be passive”.

Russian officials have said Kyiv is preparing to attempt a second offensive to retake more of the occupied Kherson region. Recapturing it, regardless of being woefully out of reach of Ukrainian Armed Forces, would have immense symbolic and logistical value for Ukraine as Russia wants the area to secure a water supply to Crimea as well as a land bridge to Russia. In a statement on Telegram, the Russian-controlled Kherson administration said electricity and water supplies were down after a “terrorist attack” damaged three power lines in the occupied part of the region.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report


Da li Ukrajina gubi podršku Zapada? Javljaju se prvi znaci zamora Ukrajinom, jedino pitanje je tajming - da li se Vašington, London i Brisel pribojavaju dolazeće zime i nezadovoljstva birača kod kuće - uglavnom zbog osetnih posledica ekonomskog rata potiv Rusije, ili možda ne žele da se Ukrajina i dalje napreže, iz straha od njenog vojničkog poraza? Jasno je da bi sve što ne bi moglo da se na Zapadu predstavi kao ukrajinska pobeda izazvalo veliki pad prestiža Amerike u očima prosečnog Evropljanina, ali bi sve što ne bi bio ograničeni poraz Ukrajine značilo i pad ugleda i uticaja Sjedinjenih Država na svetskoj sceni. Ne treba sumnjati da će se Pax Americana vrlo brzo naći na puno ozbiljnijim iskušenjima, naime, Kina je skoro dostigla Ameriku ekonomski, i više nije spremna da toleriše svoju odmetnutu provinciju Tajvan kao nepotopivi američki nosač aviona uz svoju obalu.
Situacija je takva da javno mnjenje zapada oseca posledice finansiranja Ukrajine u ratu, i to ce kad tad isplivati...
 
Nisu problem sankcije, nego enormna lova, koja ide Ukrajini sto u oruzju, sto u parama. Ko zna koliko dan rata kosta EU i USA...
Košta ih oko 40-80 milijardi do sad, samo to je par procenata američkog budžeta, plus sve pare idu aneričkoj vojnoj industriji - bivši Istočni Blok šalje staro oružje Ukrajini, Bajden plati nešto malo jer je sve rashodovano i staro po 50 godina, a onda Evropejci naručuju novo od Amerike za debele pare - tu Bajden zaradi - stvar se svede na finansiranje svojih proizvođača, a ulaganje se isplati.

Problem je što su zabranili sami sebi kupovini ruske nafte i gasa, pa su svetske cene otišle u nebo, a Arapi neće da prodaju Bajdenu svoje bud zašto.
 
Košta ih oko 40-80 milijardi do sad, samo je to par procenata američkog budžeta, plus sve pare idu aneričkoj vojnoj industriji - bivši Istočni Blok šalje Ukrajini, Bajden plati nešto malo jer je sve rashodovano i staro po 50 godina, a onda Evropejci naručuju novo od Amerike za debele pare - tu Bajden zaradi.
Problem je što su zabranili sami sebi kupovini ruske nafte i gasa, pa su svetske cene otišle u nebo, a Arapi neće da prodaju Bajdenu svoje bud zašto.
Ne bih rekao da je par %. Poceli su da trpe...
 
Pogledajte prilog 1251620Pogledajte prilog 1251621

US officials have reportedly warned the Ukrainian government in private that it needs to signal an openness to negotiating with Russia.

Officials in Washington have warned that “Ukraine fatigue” among allies could worsen if Kyiv continues to be closed to negotiations, the Washington Post reported. US officials told the paper that Ukraine’s position on negotiations with Russia is wearing thin among allies who are worried about the economic effects of a protracted war.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said Ukraine is only prepared to enter negotiations with Russia if its troops leave all parts of Ukraine, including Crimea and the eastern areas of the Donbas, de facto controlled by Russia since 2014, and if those Russians who have committed crimes in Ukraine face trial.

Zelenskiy also made clear that he would not hold negotiations with the current Russian leadership. Last month, he signed a decree specifying that Ukraine would only negotiate with a Russian president who has succeeded Vladimir Putin.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation

Volodymyr Zelenskiy visits the town of Izium, which was recently liberated during a counteroffensive operation.Photograph: Ukrainian Presidential Press Service/Reuters

The US has so far given Ukraine $18.9bn (£16.6bn) worth of aid and is ready to give more, saying it will support Ukraine for as long as it takes. However, allies in parts of Europe, Africa and Latin America, US officials told the Post, are concerned by the strain that the war is putting on energy and food prices as well as supply chains.

“Ukraine fatigue is a real thing for some of our partners,” one US official said.

US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate not to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain the support of concerned allies, according to the Post.

For Ukrainian officials, the US’s request would mean reneging on several months of rhetoric about the need for a decisive military defeat against Russia in order to secure Ukraine’s security in the long term – a message that strongly resonates with the Ukrainian population who fear Russia will only try again to capture the country in the future.

The atrocities, deaths and destruction caused by Russia’s invasion have made negotiations unpalatable to many Ukrainians, particularly as the mood in Ukraine is buoyant after a string of successes on the battlefield in the north-east Kharkiv and southern Kherson regions.

Despite the strong rhetoric, losing allied support could have repercussions for Ukraine, particularly in terms of sanctions. The veteran diplomat Alexander Vershbow told the Post that “if the conditions become more propitious for negotiations, I don’t think the [US] administration is going to be passive”.

Russian officials have said Kyiv is preparing to attempt a second offensive to retake more of the occupied Kherson region. Recapturing it, regardless of being woefully out of reach of Ukrainian Armed Forces, would have immense symbolic and logistical value for Ukraine as Russia wants the area to secure a water supply to Crimea as well as a land bridge to Russia. In a statement on Telegram, the Russian-controlled Kherson administration said electricity and water supplies were down after a “terrorist attack” damaged three power lines in the occupied part of the region.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report


Da li Ukrajina gubi podršku Zapada? Javljaju se prvi znaci zamora Ukrajinom, jedino pitanje je tajming - da li se Vašington, London i Brisel pribojavaju dolazeće zime i nezadovoljstva birača kod kuće - uglavnom zbog osetnih posledica ekonomskog rata potiv Rusije, ili možda ne žele da se Ukrajina i dalje napreže, iz straha od njenog vojničkog poraza? Jasno je da bi sve što ne bi moglo da se na Zapadu predstavi kao ukrajinska pobeda izazvalo veliki pad prestiža Amerike u očima prosečnog Evropljanina, ali bi sve što ne bi bio ograničeni poraz Ukrajine značilo i pad ugleda i uticaja Sjedinjenih Država na svetskoj sceni. Ne treba sumnjati da će se Pax Americana vrlo brzo naći na puno ozbiljnijim iskušenjima, naime, Kina je skoro dostigla Ameriku ekonomski, i više nije spremna da toleriše svoju odmetnutu provinciju Tajvan kao nepotopivi američki nosač aviona uz svoju obalu.
Nema veze pa da to govori i čitav svijet. Ukrajinci se bore do zadnjeg čovjeka! Slava Ukrajini! :super:
 
Nema veze pa da to govori i čitav svijet. Ukrajinci se bore do zadnjeg čovjeka! Slava Ukrajini! :super:
kijev korumpirana vrhuska prima od zapada debelu lovu i drogu da zrtvuje seljake i radnike: samo im kazu, nemas posao, plata ratnicka i mars na front da gines, ili crkni od gladi ili odleti glava ili corka. UCENJENI, a ne slavni, hrk, pljuc.

Pozdrav svim dezerterima sveta, samo ludi ginu danas kada znamo da postoji NUKLEARNO ORUZJE, znamo odnos snaga, znamo sve... pa ne bih isao u rat ni za milion godina, ja sam DEZERTER, FU! nema slave izginulima, sami su krivi kada su se latili oruzja! SLAVA DEZERTERIMA! SLAVA GANDIJU!
 
Poslednja izmena:
kijev korumpirana vrhuska prima od zapada debelu lovu i drogu da zrtvuje seljake i radnike: samo im kazu, nemas posao, plata ratnicka i mars na front da gines, ili crkni od gladi ili odleti glava ili corka. UCENJENI, a ne slavni, hrk, pljuc.
Srećom pa Putin demokratski pita Ruse tko želi ići u rat. Tko ne želi, ne mora. :kafa:
 
Srećom pa Putin demokratski pita Ruse tko želi ići u rat. Tko ne želi, ne mora. :kafa:
Pa ja nisam Putin, a i slabu komunikaciju imamo, cekam da Medvedev zauzme kormilo, pa cu sa njim da vidim. Do tada imam pravo valjda na stav i svoje misljenje, izgleda usamljeno, jer niko jos ne rece "slava dezerterima", bice da je sramota, ne? A Gandi?
 
Колико је оно било бранитеља у односу на број становника? :kafa:
Branitelji su ključna riječ. Vojska koja prelazi izvan granica svoje države kako bi ratovala ne podliježe definiciji branitelja. Uostalom, jedini ruski "branitelji" su Wagnerova skupina. Svi ostali su prisilno poslani na ratišta u Ukrajinu, a nedavno je po slovu zakona, dakle prisilno, regurtirano još 300.000 "branitelja".
 
Pa ja nisam Putin, a i slabu komunikaciju imamo, cekam da Medvedev zauzme kormilo, pa cu sa njim. Do tada imam pravo valjda na stav i svoje misljenje, izgleda usamljeno, jer niko jos ne rece "slava dezerterima", bice da je sramota, ne?
Dezereteri? Misliš na cirka 800.000 Rusa koji su dosad pobjegli iz Rusije, samo da izbjegnu novačenje?
 

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