Slovenske Županije u Apuliji na apeninskom poluostrvu

[Pravi Vlah]

Ти бесумно имаш Дракулиће у родном стаблу. Зато ти је толико стало да би требало да буду Драгуљићи.

 

[Mrkalj]

Ти бесумно имаш Дракулиће у родном стаблу. Зато ти је толико стало да би требало да буду Драгуљићи.

Srpsko poreklo imena Drakula

Najkrupniji kamen spoticanja među istoričarima koji su hteli da Vlahe u srednjovekovnoj Srbiji uopšte kao slovensko stanovništvo bio je Drakula-argument. Došlo je vreme da jednom zauvek odbacimo mantru o romanskom poreklu imena ili prezimena Drakula i Drakulić.

Drakule, Drakići, Drakulići i Drakulovići

Zaključak

Drakule, Drakulići i Drakulovići dolaze od srpskog imena Dragkul ili Dragkula (od kojeg u kasnijem jezičkom razvoju nastaje Dragko, Draško i prezimena Draškić i Drašković). Za slavnog grofa Drakulu, na rumunskom je posvedočen patronim Dragwlya (ili Dragkwlya) [Anuarul Institutului de Istorie Cluj-Napoca, no. 35, Institutul de Istorie din Cluj, Editura Academiei, 1996, pp. 29–34.]

Zašto bi prezime Drakulić dolazilo od romanske reči za đavola kada ni romansko ime Dracul ne dolazi od te reči već dolazi od starijeg Dragul (od kojeg kasnije nastaje Drago i prezime Dragović) koje je slovensko po postanju? Naravno, hrvatska istoriografija sve srpsko što može navijački pretvara u nesrpsko, pa tako gleda da svi Srbi zapadno od Drine postanu "Vlasi-Romani", jer ako su Romani to olakšava proces kojim velikohrvatska povijest pretvara Srbe u Hrvate i olakšava prelazak Srba u Hrvate u stvarnom životu.

Romanska reč dracul (drac) znači đavo, pa se zato ime Dracul kod Rumuna izbegava iako je bilo prisutno u prošlosti Rumuna koja je bila kud i kamo slovenskija. Prema tome, eventualno (veoma retko) romansko muško ime Dracul može dolaziti samo od slovenskog Dragul (Dragul je preteča imena Drago) pa mu i etimologiju treba sagledavati na taj način. A to važi i za srpska prezimena Drakula i Drakulić. Jer, ako Rumuni daju ime po slovenskoj reči Dragul, zašto bi Srbi davali ime po romanskoj reči koja znači đavo, tj. zašto Srbi ne bi davali srpsko ime Dragko (kasniji Draško) tj. Dragkul od kojeg bi patronim bio Drakula, Drakulić i Drakulović? Mi imamo kod kralja Milutina ("син му Радкула с децом") u povelji posvedočeno ime Radkula (kasniji Radko tj. Ratko). I zaista, ime Radkul ili Radkula moglo je dati današnja prezimena Ra(d)kula, Ra(d)kulić, Ra(d)kulović.

I zaista, ima i Ra(d)kulića, dakle, od Radkula: Google search Rakulić

A i Ra(d)kulovića: Google search Rakulović

Pogledajmo za prezime Drakić koje dolazi od Dragk+ić. Evo, ima i mnogo Drakića: Google search Drakić

Dakle, ako imamo Drakiće i ne mislimo da su romanskog porekla jer o njima nije pisao Bram Stoker, treba da se zamislimo dobro zašto to činimo pri pomenu Drakula, Drakulića i Drakulovića. Jer, semantički gledano, prezime Drakulović je isto što i prezime Drašković.


Mrkalj,
10.4.2018.

 

[Kole11]

pagan" also meant "unclean", or "non-Christian", etc. See, for example, this gramota of the Wallachian voevoda Alexandru Aldea:

This is not comparable. We are talking about X and XI century Roman sources, who clearly defines Pagans as non-Christian Slavic subject. And every scientist agree about that the Pagans in South Italy were of Slavic descent.
But I think your intention is that to look only for Bulgarian traces in early middle ages and to make distinction between Bulgarians and Slavs.

 

[Kole11]

Da sumiram:
U Italiji postoje ozbiljni naučnici koji tvrde da Sloveni naseljavaju južnu Italiji počev od VII veka u vreme Avaro-Slovenskih provala na Balkan. Prema njima Sloveni su prisutni na Siciliji, Kalabriji i Apuliji sve do XIII veka kada bivaju asimilirani.
Za mene je ovo novost, nikada nisam čuo ovakvu tezu i mogu da zaključim da prisustvo Slovena u južnoj Italiji korespondira onom na Peloponezu.

Druga veoma bitna tvrdnja jedne italijanske naučnice je da značajni rani spomenici pismenosti Slovena potiču iz južne Italije. Pa je tako tipik iz jednog manastira na Siciliji nastao vrlo verovatno u IX veku, najkasnije početkom X veka.

Da li je još nekom čudno da je moguće i prvi primer slovenske pismenosti nastao na Siciliji a ne negde na Balkanu ili severnije, na mestima gde su solunska braća vršila svoju misiju?

 

[Васил]

This is not comparable. We are talking about X and XI century Roman sources, who clearly defines Pagans as non-Christian Slavic subject.

no, the term pagan was applied to Muslims as well. Check for example J. Tolan, Muslims as Pagan Idolaters in Chronicles of the First Crusade (In: Western Views of Islam in Medieval and Early Modern Europe, pp 97-117)

And every scientist agree about that the Pagans in South Italy were of Slavic descent.

we are talking about AD 982. Where there any pagan heathen Slavs left there?

But I think your intention is that to look only for Bulgarian traces in early middle ages and to make distinction between Bulgarians and Slavs.

 

[Васил]

Da sumiram:
U Italiji postoje ozbiljni naučnici koji tvrde da Sloveni naseljavaju južnu Italiji počev od VII veka u vreme Avaro-Slovenskih provala na Balkan. Prema njima Sloveni su prisutni na Siciliji, Kalabriji i Apuliji sve do XIII veka kada bivaju asimilirani.

no, this shows the restrictions in Cristina Torre's approach. All she can think of is the sea route for the spreading of the Slavs. Actually, the Slavs (and the Bulgars) were not restricted to southern Italy, and the sea route was not the only way they could spread.

Druga veoma bitna tvrdnja jedne italijanske naučnice je da značajni rani spomenici pismenosti Slovena potiču iz južne Italije. Pa je tako tipik iz jednog manastira na Siciliji nastao vrlo verovatno u IX veku, najkasnije početkom X veka.

Below are some quotes from Russian sources. They date the Slavic translation to the X or even XII c.

- Преподобный Иоанн, игумен Паталарейский, from Православная Энциклопедия ( под редакцией Патриарха Московского и всея Руси Кирилла):

ИОАНН
преподобный, исповедник (память визант. 4 августа; память греч. 3 августа). Согласно Синаксарю Константинопольской церкви (конец X в.), в котором память Иоанна содержится под 4 августа, он был игуменом монастыря на острове Пателария (в других источниках - Паталарея; ныне Пантеллерия), расположенном между Сицилией и Тунисом. Иоанн назван исповедником, что, возможно, указывает на время его жизни в период иконоборчества. По мнению западных исследователей, вероятнее всего, Иоанн исполнял обязанности игумена между 765 и 780 гг.

Устав монастыря на острове Пателария сохранился в слав. переводе, в заглавии к-рого указано имя его основателя и игумена - Иоанн (Мансветов. С. 442). Вероятно, Иоанн, упоминаемый в Синаксаре Константинопольской церкви, и основатель обители, составивший Устав, являются одним лицом. Славянский перевод был выполнен, возможно, в X в. в Болгарии и отражает еще недостаточно изученные связи монашества этой страны с православным монашеством Южной Италии (по мнению некоторых исследователей, перевод следует датировать XII в. (см.: Щапов Я. Н. Византийское и южнославянское правовое наследие на Руси в XI-XIII вв. М., 1978. С. 193)). Памятник сохранился в большом количестве восточнославянских списков 2-й половины XIII-XVII в. в составе Кормчей (начиная с Новгородского списка 80-х гг. XIII в.- ГИМ. Син. № 132) и церковно-юридических сборников (старший - РГБ. Рум. № 230, т. н. Устюжская Кормчая кон. XIII (?) - нач. XIV в.).

- Щапов Я.Н. Византийское и южнославянское правовое наследие на Руси в XI–XIII вв. М.: Наука, 1978 (www.archive.org), PrintScreen:

Spojler

Da li je još nekom čudno da je moguće i prvi primer slovenske pismenosti nastao na Siciliji a ne negde na Balkanu ili severnije, na mestima gde su solunska braća vršila svoju misiju?

highly unlikely that it would be in Sicily. The spread of the Cyrillic and the elevation of Slavic to a sacred language of the Church required a solid state support.

 

[Kole11]

no, the term pagan was applied to Muslims as well. Check for example J. Tolan, Muslims as Pagan Idolaters in Chronicles of the First Crusade (In: Western Views of Islam in Medieval and Early Modern Europe, pp 97-117)

As I sad, there is wide spread agreement about these Calabrian Pagans regarding their Slavic descent. If there were Slavic pagans on Peloponesse in X century, why it is strange to find Slavic pagans in Calabria?

we are talking about AD 982. Where there any pagan heathen Slavs left there?

I think you are obssesed to find only Bulgarians in south Italy. Yes, there are several references about Bulgarians, as well as other Slavic people.
For example Macedonians in Sicily, are they Bulagarians too? Serbian jupans in Apulia are Bulgarians, right?

Преподобный Иоанн, игумен Паталарейский, from Православная Энциклопедия ( под редакцией Патриарха Московского и всея Руси Кирилла):

Славянский перевод был выполнен, возможно, в X в. в Болгарии и отражает еще недостаточно изученные связи монашества этой страны с православным монашеством Южной Италии

Словенски превод вероватно је настао у 10. веку. у Бугарској и одражава још увек недовољно проучаване односе монаштва ове земље и православног монаштва јужне Италије

So someone started to study these relations. What is your problem abot that?

 

[Васил]

I think you are obssesed to find only Bulgarians in south Italy. Yes, there are several references about Bulgarians, as well as other Slavic people.

? not sure how you came to this conclusion. I follow both the Slavs and Bulgars, as they appear in the sources.

For example Macedonians in Sicily, are they Bulgarians too? Serbian jupans in Apulia are Bulgarians, right?

no, the Macedonians are probably from Eastern (Turkish) Thracia.
What evidence is there for Serbian jupans in Apulia?

Словенски превод вероватно је настао у 10. веку. у Бугарској и одражава још увек недовољно проучаване односе монаштва ове земље и православног монаштва јужне Италије

So someone started to study these relations. What is your problem abot that?

no problem whatsoever. There are other Italians who contributed to these studies as well. BTw, Torre revised her ideas and her dating of the Typikon from Pantelleria. See her article "Italo-Greek monastic Typika" in B. Crostini, I. Murzaku (eds.), Greek Monasticism in Southern Italy: The Life of Neilos in Context, 2018:

***************
p. 46-47:

The Slavonic translation [of The Typikon of St John the Forerunner of Pantelleria] is instead attributed to the tenth century based on linguistic observations, [25] whereas the manuscripts that transmit it are all later. [26] Allowing for the fact that the original is indeed Siculo-Greek, it is not surprising that the text has been preserved in Slavonic since there are traces, although scarce, of a Slavic or more generally Balkan presence in Sicily between the seventh and ninth centuries. [27] However, the typikon of Pantelleria does not seem to be the only Siculo-Greek text currently known only by its Slavonic translation.

A Slavonic drafting of the so-called Visio Danielis, for which a dating ante 1078–1081 has been proposed, [28] may be derived, according to Paul J. Alexander, from a Greek original drafted in Sicily between 827 and 829. [29]
. . .

25. Thomson 1985, 222. Thomson 1985, 229, n. 35, argues against the twelfth-century dating proposed by De Meester 1940.

26. The question is not simple. Gianfranco Fiaccadori records three witnesses all dated to the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries: Russian State Library, formerly Theological Academy 54; State Historical Museum, formerly Patriarchal Library, Undol’skij Collection, Syn. 110; Oxford, Bodleian Library 995–92: BMFD, 59. Francis J. Thomson assigns instead the second manuscript to c. 1280 and records another witness, transmitted from the so-called Moravian Nomocanon, Lenin State Library, Rumyantsev codex 230, dated to the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, although he notes that the typikon was not present in the original manuscript: Thomson 1985, 229, n. 35.

27. On this matter see Torre 2013.
28. Thomson 1985, 222.
29. Alexander 1985, 64 and n. 13; cf. Alexander 1973, 7–37.
***************

 

[Kole11]

? not sure how you came to this conclusion. I follow both the Slavs and Bulgars, as they appear in the sources.

When investigating early middle ages, I am equally excited to find Serbian, Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian traces, because they all are speakers of Slavic language. It seems that you separate Bulgarians from rest of the Slavs and I think this is wrong approach.

What evidence is there for Serbian jupans in Apulia?

Gli slavi nella calabria bizantina, page 211

no problem whatsoever. There are other Italians who contributed to these studies as well. BTw, Torre revised her ideas and her dating of the Typikon from Pantelleria. See her article "Italo-Greek monastic Typika" in B. Crostini, I. Murzaku (eds.), Greek Monasticism in Southern Italy: The Life of Neilos in Context, 2018:

Let it be X century. Do you accept possibility that Slavic translation my be written on site, in Sicily, as poposed by Torre?

 

[Васил]

When investigating early middle ages, I am equally excited to find Serbian, Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian traces, because they all are speakers of Slavic language. It seems that you separate Bulgarians from rest of the Slavs and I think this is wrong approach.

it is the only approach. The sources speak of just Bulgars and Slavs in Italy in the early middle ages.

Gli slavi nella calabria bizantina, page 211

there is no mentioning of Serbs, Croats or even "Dalmatians" in there.

Let it be X century. Do you accept possibility that Slavic translation my be written on site, in Sicily, as poposed by Torre?

Even more. Translations from Latin, not only from Greek, were probably made in these monasteries. There were other south-Italian influences as well - in the miniatures, etc. Probably not in Sicily though. As I told you the sources speak of Bulgarian monks and monasteries in Calabria and further north.

 

[Mrkalj]

This is not comparable. We are talking about X and XI century Roman sources, who clearly defines Pagans as non-Christian Slavic subject. And every scientist agree about that the Pagans in South Italy were of Slavic descent.
But I think your intention is that to look only for Bulgarian traces in early middle ages and to make distinction between Bulgarians and Slavs.

Istini za volju reč je slovenskog porekla po+gavn. Uporedi sa ogavno i gоvno. Dakle, pogavno > pogano.

 

[Kole11]

it is the only approach. The sources speak of just Bulgars and Slavs in Italy in the early middle ages.

Serbians, Macedonians, even Russians.....

there is no mentioning of Serbs, Croats or even "Dalmatians" in there.

Even more. Translations from Latin, not only from Greek, were probably made in these monasteries. There were other south-Italian influences as well - in the miniatures, etc. Probably not in Sicily though. As I told you the sources speak of Bulgarian monks and monasteries in Calabria and further north.

Ok, let it be Bulgarian translation. How could it be, maybe oldest Bulgarian writing, to originate from Sicily?

 

[Васил]

Serbians, Macedonians, even Russians.....

okay, it is partially a matter of definition. I haven't seen Serbs or Croats, let alone Russians, mentioned in Italy in the VI, VII, VIII and IX cc.

Pogledajte prilog 662094

But this is Torre's interpretation. Župan (ζουπανος, ζουπανος μέγας, ὁ ζουπαν ταρκανος, τωυρτωυνα πηλε ζωπαν) was also one of the main titles in Bulgaria before Boris I (the Bulgar inscriptions in Greek range from the beginning of the VIII c. till the IX cc.):

- A silver cup from Preslav from the IX c.:

Κ(ύρι)ε, βο(ή)θη
+ Σηβην
ζουπανος
μέγας ἠς
5 Βουργα-
ρήαν

„Lord, help. Sivin, great zhupan in Bulgaria." (See: В. Бешевлиев, Първобългарски надписи, 1992, 234)

- An inscription on a stone column from the Great basilika in Pliska, from the time of Omurtag (814-831):

Κανα συβιγι Ομυρταγ. ὁ Χσουνος ὁ ζουπαν ταρκανος θρεπτὸς ἄνθροπος μου ἶτον κὲ ἀπέθανεν ἰς τὸ φοσάτον. ἶτον δὲ τὸ γένος αὐτοῦ Κυριγηρ.
„Khsun, the zhupan tarkan, was a man from my court and died in the army. His clan was Kurigir."

There is another zhupan mentioned in another stone inscription near Pliska. His clan was Ermiar. Etc., etc.


Regarding the Athen. 149 manuscript Torre uncritically accepts Guillou & Tchérémissinoff's interpretation for a date in the second part of the XI c. (+ a provenance from Gargano..), not realising the storm this would create because, as we know, the oldest Serbian-influenced text is the Miroslav gospel, from 100+ years later. But Bulgarian researchers claim the Slavic text in Athen. 149 is later and that it comes from the nothern parts of Macedonia (the Athen. 149 manuscript itself came from the Bachkovo monastery near Plovdiv). And Ihor Ševčenko for example, dates the Slavic text even to the XIV c.

Ok, let it be Bulgarian translation. How could it be, maybe oldest Bulgarian writing, to originate from Sicily?

again, do you realise the storm this would create? It is generally accepted that a Cyrillic writing cannot predate the time of Cyrillus & Methodius, or a bit later (depending on which hypothesis you subsribe to).

 

[Kole11]

There is another zhupan mentioned in another stone inscription near Pliska. His clan was Ermiar. Etc., etc.

Ok. I understand that it was Bulgarian title too, but later on this area, only Serbian and Croatian presence is mentioned, as I know.

Regarding the Athen. 149 manuscript Torre uncritically accepts Guillou & Tchérémissinoff's interpretation for a date in the second part of the XI c. (+ a provenance from Gargano..), not realising the storm this would create because, as we know, the oldest Serbian-influenced text is the Miroslav gospel, from 100+ years later. But Bulgarian researchers claim the Slavic text in Athen. 149 is later and that it comes from the nothern parts of Macedonia (the Athen. 149 manuscript itself came from the Bachkovo monastery near Plovdiv). And Ihor Ševčenko for example, dates the Slavic text even to the XIV c.

Thank you for this info.
Is there any language difference between Serbian and Bulgarian language of X century, according to your knowledge?
Is there any comment, any mention in Serbian academic society about Athen 149 manuscript, again according to your knowledge?

again, do you realise the storm this would create? It is generally accepted that a Cyrillic writing cannot predate the time of Cyrillus & Methodius, or a bit later (depending on which hypothesis you subsribe to).

Well, science shouldn't take care about any storms if defends the truth. Are there scientists in Bulgaria who are studying this topic?

 

[Васил]

Ok. I understand that it was Bulgarian title too, but later on this area, only Serbian and Croatian presence is mentioned, as I know.

Not at the time of Simeon or Samuil. I am still trying to make sense of the Gargano evidence. Check Erica Morlacchetti, La costa dalmata e i rapporti tra le due sponde dell’Adriatico attraverso le fonti del monastero benedettino delle isole Tremiti (sec. XI) (2016) for more evidence, including Serbian/Croatian publications.

Thank you for this info.
Is there any language difference between Serbian and Bulgarian language of X century, according to your knowledge?

of course. The often quoted reflexes of *tj, *dj as št, (ž)dž in Old Bulgarian go back to the proto-Slavic period, etc. Another question is whether it is possible to define a language, say "Russian", for the X c. The same with "stokavian" vs. "kajkavian" vs. "chakavian". Are they legitimate divisions for the proto-Slavic period?

Is there any comment, any mention in Serbian academic society about Athen 149 manuscript, again according to your knowledge?

I am not aware of such. For (an attempt at) a general overview of the situation in the Adriatic in the 920's see Aleksandar Uzelac, Prince Michael of Zahumlje – a Serbian ally of tsar Symeon (2018). In the next post I will post more info from Ševčenko, but in fact I came here looking for some input from you guys. Come on, throw the dog a bone here. For example, do you know of scans of this book: Antonio Sammartino, (prijevod: Vesna Ljubić-Bilušić), Grammatica della lingua croato-molisana = Gramatika moliškohrvatskoga jezika, Zagreb, 2004., 413 str.?

Well, science shouldn't take care about any storms if defends the truth. Are there scientists in Bulgaria who are studying this topic?

Yes, Assen Tschilingirov and Rostislav Stankov, for example. If you are interested in early medieval Slavic studies that first you have to make sense of the sources. Many/most of the material is preserved in late Russian copies only, but there is a big dispute what is the share of South Slavic vs. Kievan-Russian material, translations from Greek, etc. See these studies of Thomson and Stankov, rejecting any singificant contribution from Kiev:

- Francis J. Thomson, “Made in Russia“. A Survey of the Translations Allegedly Made in Kievan Russia (1993)
- Ростислав Станков, Культура Древней Руси в трудах проф. Ф. Томсона (2004) as well his other articles about the "Kievan" and about the "Moravian" Slavic schools:
- Ростислав Станков, Статии

Then there is the question of the much talked about "Moravian" school. In a recent book Stankov basically refutes the existence of any Moravisms in the Old Church Slavonic language, i.e. he denies there was any significant input from Bohemia, Moravia at the time of Cyrillus and Methodius - Древнеболгарские переводные тексты и проблема лексических моравизмов (2016).

Francis Thomson also apparently claims that some translations from Latin were done in southern Italy (in a Benedictine monastery of S. Maria of Amalfi, founded around 985/990 (?)) and not in Bohemia:
- A Survey of the Vitae allegedly translated from Latin into Slavonic in Bohemia in the tenth and eleventh centuries (In: Atti del 8° Congresso intern. di studi sull’alto medioevo, Spoleto, 3-6 nov. 1981 (Spoleto 1983) 331-348).
Does anybody have this article?

For interesting questions about the mission of C & M see Ihor Ševčenko: Three Paradoxes of the Cyrillo-Methodian Mission (1964).

For in-depth analysis of the Russian sources (how is our Russian or Bulgarian?) see Tschilingirov's compilation of Russian studies, with commentaries - Материали към "България и покръстването на русите", as well as his numerous studies (Асен Чилингиров).

 

[Васил]

About the Athen. 149 manuscript, it was first Andre Grabar who raised suspicions about the iconography of the Slavic miniatures there (A. Grabar, Les manuscrits grecs enluminés de provenance italienne (IXe-Xe siècles) (Paris, 1972), p. 68), and then some Greek researchers.

Here is the text from p. 143-143, including footnotes 41-42, from: Ihor Ševčenko, Report on the Glagolitic fragments (of the Euchologium Sinaiticum?) discovered on Sinai in 1975 and some thoughts on the models for the make-up of the earliest Glagolitic manuscripts (Harvard Ukrainian Studies 6, 1982, 2, 119-151):

This evidence suggests that Italo-Greek manuscripts offer the closest parallel to the make-up and ornament of at least one early Glagolitic witness, namely, the Euchologium Sinaiticum (if we consider our fragments as a part of that manuscript), or of two witnesses (if we consider these fragments as a part of a twin manuscript). However, I find my observation applicable to other witnesses as well: to the Codex Zographensis (fig. 26, p. 131), to the Psalterium Sinaiticum (fig. 27, p. 131) and to the Codex Assemanianus (fig. 28, p. 131) — in short, to the majority of the earliest Glagolitic manuscripts. In other words, I am suggesting that the habits of the producers of the earliest books written in Old Church Slavonic reflect South Italian influences.

The proposition that an artistic influence emanated from South Italy towards the Balkan Slavs is paralleled by André Grabar’s recent hypothesis according to which Italo-Greek illuminated manuscripts of the period influenced one aspect of the practice of illumination in Byzantium itself. [40]

Thus my suggestion should appear less startling to an art historian than it might to a Slavic philologist, whose main points of reference for our period are Byzantium, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Moravia, and the Franks. Nor is it, strictly speaking, novel, for in recent years, connections were occasionally established between Italo-Greek and early Slavic illumination and ornament. But these were obiter dicta, dealing with individual Greek or Slavic manuscripts, such as the few well chosen words on the Euchologium Sinaiticum and the Sinai Psalter by Kurt Weitzmann whose broad knowledge of East and West enabled him to put these manuscripts in their proper framework; [41] Guillou’s and Tscheremisinoff’s well-intentioned attempt based on an inappropriate example; [42]


41. Kurt Weitzmann, Illustrated Manuscripts at St. Catherine’s Monastery on Mount Sinai (Collegeville, Minnesota, 1973), p. 13.

42. Cf.
· Guillou and Katia Tcheremisinoff, “Note sur la culture arabe et la culture slave dans le katepanat d’ltalie (Xe-XIe s.),” Mélanges de I’Ecole française de Rome 88 (1976): 677-92, especially 685-90,
repeated with only a few changes in
· Guillou, “La culture slave dans le katepanat d’ltalie,” Slavjanskie Kul’tury i Balkany (Sofia), 1 (1978): 267-74.

In both articles, the general cultural background is drawn with a master’s pen; and the connection (made in the wake of Weitzmann) between the ES, the Sinai Psalter, and South Italy is to be applauded (even if, pace p. 690, these manuscripts were hardly written in South Italy); however, the main new piece of manuscript evidence adduced by the authors — namely, Athens, National Library 149 (Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles, rather than “Psalter”) — does not quite belong in our context.

True, the text of the manuscript itself, its original rubrics, headpieces and simple initials, are unmistakably by a South Italian scribe of the late tenth or early eleventh century. But all the titles in black ink are either added in spaces left empty by the original scribe, or rewritten over the original rubrics: cf. fols. 56v-57r, where the original title of 57r, + ΥΠΟΘΕΣΙΣ . . . ΤΗΣ ΔΕΥ, still reflected in mirror image on fol. 56v, was erased, and a Greek title in black ink by a “Slavicizing” hand substituted for it.

- This hand is, however, to be dated to the fourteenth century;
- so are the Slavic titles and texts on scrolls, probably written by the same hand;
- so are the three miniatures of St. Peter and Paul.
- The spelling of the Slavic on the scrolls, too, points to the fourteenth century (and perhaps to Serbia);
- the paschal tables of fol. 159r start with the year 1328;
- finally, the manuscript itself reached the Athens National Library from Bačkovo in Bulgaria.

Thus Athens, National Library 149 is not a witness, along with the two early Glagolitic manuscripts from Sinai, for Slavic scribal and artistic activity and bilingual culture somewhere in South Italy in the first half of the eleventh century; it reflects the activity of some center, situated in the Balkans in the fourteenth century, where a Slavic scribe mastered Greek script reputably well, and where bad miniatures were attempted. I am able to make only one valid statement of use to our topic in connection with the Athens manuscript: this manuscript attests to the movement of books from South Italy to the Balkans sometime between the eleventh and fourteenth century.

For a description of the Athens, National Library 149, cf.
· Marava-Chatzinicolaou and Toufexi-Paschou, Catalogue (as in fn. 39 above), no. 8 = pp. 51-55 and figs. 62-71.
Slight doubts that the Slavic miniatures of this manuscript are of the same period as its text were already expressed by
· Grabar, Les manuscrits grecs (as in fn. 40 above), 68 (with the assistance of L. Vranoussis).

 

[Mrkalj]

 

[Kole11]

Slovenska plaza na Tirenskom moru

https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaga_Sclavorum

 

[Aranko]

Slovenska plaza na Tirenskom moru

https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaga_Sclavorum

Интересантно назив је изгледа веома стар
Of uncertain etymology, Praia derives from “Plaga Sclavorum” (or Plaga Slavorum) or the Sclavoni beach (or Slavoni), in the presence of a large colony of Slavs, expert sailors sent by the Emperor of the East Niceporo Foca (963-969), who wanted to counter the dominance of the Saracens.

http://www.madonnadellagrotta.org/en/location/

 

[Kole11]

Интересантно назив је изгледа веома стар
Of uncertain etymology, Praia derives from “Plaga Sclavorum” (or Plaga Slavorum) or the Sclavoni beach (or Slavoni), in the presence of a large colony of Slavs, expert sailors sent by the Emperor of the East Niceporo Foca (963-969), who wanted to counter the dominance of the Saracens.

Niko se time ozbiljno nije bavio.
Naime ne postoji niti jedin izvor koji svedoci o doselljavanju Slovena u juznu Italiju. Ja sam mislio da je pomen zupanija u Apuliji sa kraja 10. veka prvi pomen naselja Slovena u Italiji. Medjutim nije, postoje raniji pomeni koji se vezuju za podrucje Kalabrije koje gravitira prema Sredozemnom moru i prvi u tom smislu je vezan za dogadjaj iz 811. godine, postavicu rad jednog italijanskog autora koji je to sve taksativno naveo.

E sad sto se tice Nicifora Foke, nema informacija da je on sa sobom vodio Slovene, rec je o sredini 10. veka, a i da jeste imamo ranije pomene. Postoje jos razmisljanja da su Sloveni dosli sa carem Vasilijem kada je sredinom 9. veka obnavljao suverenitet Vizantije, ili sa Arapima, ali kao sto rekoh postoje raniji pomeni.

Kako se niko ne seti da napise da je jos Velizar doveo Slovene i Ante u Kalabriju da ratuju protiv Gota, sto je bogato dokumentovao Prokopije?

 

[Kole11]

Moguci prvi pomen reci Sloven je vezan za juznu Italiju. Naime u 19. veku u mestu Anci je pronadjena posuda koja potice iz perioda 200 godina pre Hrista. Prema Momsenu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=UZ...e&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false i Ajkhornu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=Jl...e&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false, na posudi pise sledece

Dakle Irakleis Sklabekis. Kod njh je postojala nedoumica da li mozda pise Sklabens umesto Sklabekis. Obojica su rec Sklabens/Sklabekis izveli od latinske reci clava sto bi trebalo da oznacava neku vrstu oruzja.

Za Jana Kolara i Tadeja Volanskog ovo je prvi pomen Slovena u istoriji.

Kraford je nedavno u svojoj knjizi, http://library.lol/main/D0588C8E0A2E4DFEB5B48C43C3755BB7, natpis procitao kao Herekleis Skdabens. Dakle lambda je u njegovoj inetrpretaciji presla u delta i sada ta rec zaista ne podseca na pomen Slovena.

Evo fotografije posude

Prema Krafordu prevod glasi Of the shrine of Hercules, they offered

Da li se radi o lambdi ili delti

 

[Mrkalj]

Moguci prvi pomen reci Sloven je vezan za juznu Italiju. Naime u 19. veku u mestu Anci je pronadjena posuda koja potice iz perioda 200 godina pre Hrista. Prema Momsenu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=UZnYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=Minicis+in+Fermo+der+es+in+Neapel&source=bl&ots=S0NrUTmAa2&sig=ACfU3U2baoUV8AqQgjiDjNlB-5mrHquv0A&hl=sr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG6f-GlbnrAhWSEMAKHZvTBoMQ6AEwAHoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false i Ajkhornu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=JltfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA468&lpg=PA468&dq=Minicis+in+Fermo+der+es+in+Neapel&source=bl&ots=gGJGt9n-X6&sig=ACfU3U1l5AgSvKGv-I1j6mXWtYkJN_jz1A&hl=sr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG6f-GlbnrAhWSEMAKHZvTBoMQ6AEwA3oECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false, na posudi pise sledece
Pogledajte prilog 754671

Dakle Irakleis Sklabekis. Kod njh je postojala nedoumica da li mozda pise Sklabens umesto Sklabekis. Obojica su rec Sklabens/Sklabekis izveli od latinske reci clava sto bi trebalo da oznacava neku vrstu oruzja.

Za Jana Kolara i Tadeja Volanskog ovo je prvi pomen Slovena u istoriji.

Kraford je nedavno u svojoj knjizi, http://library.lol/main/D0588C8E0A2E4DFEB5B48C43C3755BB7, natpis procitao kao Herekleis Skdabens. Dakle lambda je u njegovoj inetrpretaciji presla u delta i sada ta rec zaista ne podseca na pomen Slovena.

Evo fotografije posude

Pogledajte prilog 754677

Prema Krafordu prevod glasi Of the shrine of Hercules, they offered

Da li se radi o lambdi ili delti

To može da se diskutuje kad se ima posuda u ruci.

 

[Q. in perpetuum hibernum]

Moguci prvi pomen reci Sloven je vezan za juznu Italiju. Naime u 19. veku u mestu Anci je pronadjena posuda koja potice iz perioda 200 godina pre Hrista. Prema Momsenu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=UZnYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=Minicis+in+Fermo+der+es+in+Neapel&source=bl&ots=S0NrUTmAa2&sig=ACfU3U2baoUV8AqQgjiDjNlB-5mrHquv0A&hl=sr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG6f-GlbnrAhWSEMAKHZvTBoMQ6AEwAHoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false i Ajkhornu, https://books.google.rs/books?id=JltfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA468&lpg=PA468&dq=Minicis+in+Fermo+der+es+in+Neapel&source=bl&ots=gGJGt9n-X6&sig=ACfU3U1l5AgSvKGv-I1j6mXWtYkJN_jz1A&hl=sr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG6f-GlbnrAhWSEMAKHZvTBoMQ6AEwA3oECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Minicis in Fermo der es in Neapel&f=false, na posudi pise sledece
Pogledajte prilog 754671

Dakle Irakleis Sklabekis. Kod njh je postojala nedoumica da li mozda pise Sklabens umesto Sklabekis. Obojica su rec Sklabens/Sklabekis izveli od latinske reci clava sto bi trebalo da oznacava neku vrstu oruzja.

Za Jana Kolara i Tadeja Volanskog ovo je prvi pomen Slovena u istoriji.

Kraford je nedavno u svojoj knjizi, http://library.lol/main/D0588C8E0A2E4DFEB5B48C43C3755BB7, natpis procitao kao Herekleis Skdabens. Dakle lambda je u njegovoj inetrpretaciji presla u delta i sada ta rec zaista ne podseca na pomen Slovena.

Evo fotografije posude

Pogledajte prilog 754677

Prema Krafordu prevod glasi Of the shrine of Hercules, they offered

Da li se radi o lambdi ili delti

Delti

 

[Kole11]

U okolini Rima postoji oblast koja se zove Dolina Sorbo (Valle del Sorbo). Oblast je bila poznata u antici, medjutim u 10.veku postaje militarizovana, i izmedju ostalih bivaju izgradjena tri utvrdjenja pod nazivima: Dalmachia, Grotte Franca (Crypta Francula) i Sorbo.

https://movio.beniculturali.it/mav/galleriadigerhardschwarz/nl/53/valle-del-sorbo

Some archaeological materials found in the area of the Sorbo valley (Agro Veientano Museum) attest to the presence of the area at least from the early imperial age to the late antiquity (early 4th century AD). In the 10th and 11th centuries the process of "fortification" took place, when the scattered rural population gathered in villages ( castra or castella ), many of which were fortified. In this period the monastery of S. Paolo Fuori le Mura founded Cesano (905 AD), Formello (1026) and Campagnano (1076). The small castles of Dalmachia, Grotte Franca ( Crypta Francula ) and Sorbo were built in the Sorbo valley . The Castrum Sorbiit was probably born under the pressure of the Monastery of S. Alessio sull'Aventino, as evidenced by the bull dated to 996 by Emperor Otto III regarding the ownership of the castellum quod dicitur Sorbi (when it passed under the jurisdiction of the monastery of San Paolo). Some remains of the first castle are still visible to the right of the square in front of the church, with the "Torre delle Viole" and part of the walls.

 

[Holy1]

U okolini Rima postoji oblast koja se zove Dolina Sorbo (Valle del Sorbo). Oblast je bila poznata u antici, medjutim u 10.veku postaje militarizovana, i izmedju ostalih bivaju izgradjena tri utvrdjenja pod nazivima: Dalmachia, Grotte Franca (Crypta Francula) i Sorbo.

https://movio.beniculturali.it/mav/galleriadigerhardschwarz/nl/53/valle-del-sorbo

Some archaeological materials found in the area of the Sorbo valley (Agro Veientano Museum) attest to the presence of the area at least from the early imperial age to the late antiquity (early 4th century AD). In the 10th and 11th centuries the process of "fortification" took place, when the scattered rural population gathered in villages ( castra or castella ), many of which were fortified. In this period the monastery of S. Paolo Fuori le Mura founded Cesano (905 AD), Formello (1026) and Campagnano (1076). The small castles of Dalmachia, Grotte Franca ( Crypta Francula ) and Sorbo were built in the Sorbo valley . The Castrum Sorbiit was probably born under the pressure of the Monastery of S. Alessio sull'Aventino, as evidenced by the bull dated to 996 by Emperor Otto III regarding the ownership of the castellum quod dicitur Sorbi (when it passed under the jurisdiction of the monastery of San Paolo). Some remains of the first castle are still visible to the right of the square in front of the church, with the "Torre delle Viole" and part of the walls.

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