Shta zapravo pishe u starome zavetu?

Harborym

Zainteresovan član
Poruka
172
Ovaj jahve/alah me sve vishe i vishe odushevljava. Znachi on propoveda jedenje fekalija, pornografiju, incest, ubistvo, neravnopravnost polova, itd.

Pa mi Satanisti smo zlato. Em se tushiramo svakodnevno, em radimo na sebi, em imamo perspektivu, ccc. Sram vas bilo! :D

Biblical Pornography

"Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." (Ezekiel 23: 19-21)

"and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)
Comment

The story of the sister whores, Aholah and Aholibah gives a moral lesson against the sins of the flesh. But why does God have to describe their adventures in such pornographic detail? Does God love porn?

What parent would want their children reading verse 21 about comparing the size of men's penises to donkey genitals and the sperm flow to that of horse issues?

As any adult religious parent might believe, such lustful descriptions, if culled from secular sources, would corrupt children should they happen to read them. Should it not also corrupt children if read from the Bible?

Cain's Wife?

"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch." (Genesis 4:17)
Comment

What wife? At that time only Adam & Eve, Cain and Abel existed on the Earth. The only possibility comes from, either a grave omission from the Bible, or his mother Eve served as his wife. The second possibility would mean incest.

After Cain killed his brother, God protected him by setting "a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." (verse 14). Considering the earth supposedly had only Adam's family, who should kill him? And what kind of mark could have protected Cain? From the absurdity of this story, it should not surprise why anyone would read into it what they wanted. Certain inane beliefs resulted such as the common belief that the "mark of Cain" meant the dark skin of the "Negro" race.

David Uncovers Himself

"And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart." (II Samuel 6:14-16)

"Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!" (II Samuel 6:20)
Comment

Imagine King David dancing and leaping with all his might while uncovering himself to the crowd.

David's wife, in effect, says, "Well, you certainly made an ass of yourself at the temple today leaping and dancing about like an idiot and exposing yourself."

Note: An "ephod" describes an embroidered robe that looks similar to a woman's dress.

Death To Adulterers

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:10-11)
Comment

Few Christians today consider death as a punishment for adultery; no doubt because so many Christians, themselves, practice sexual liaisons with other people's spouses.

Note, however, that a growing number of heterosexual fundamentalists have begun to call for the death penalty for homosexuals simply because Leviticus 20:13 calls for the death of a man who lies with mankind (homosexuality).

Drugs And Aphrodisiacs

"Come, my beloved, let us go forth into the field; let us lodge in the villages. Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, whether the tender grape appear, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves. The mandrakes give a smell, and at our gates are all manner of pleasant fruits, new and old, which I have laid up for thee, O my beloved." (Song of Solomon 7:11-13)
Comment

The poetry of the Songs of Solomon give Scriptural testimony for love, sex and the beauty of the female body, a rare and usually ignored portion of the Bible by many fundamentalist Christians.

The mandrakes mentioned here describe a Mediterranean herb of the nightshade family of plants. To this day in the Middle East, people believe it overcomes impotence in men and acts as a powerful aphrodisiac. Even the roots have a decidedly phallic appearance. Ancient physician, Galen, wrote that pomegranate possessed antifertility properties. Many women in ancient days used pomegranate, (as well as other plants) for birth control, with little interference from religious or political authorities. Studies in the 1930s showed that pomegranate reduced fertility in laboratory animals, much as modern contraceptive pills do. [Archaeology, March/April 1994]

(See also Genesis 30:14)

Eat Human Feces!

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)
Comment

How many good Christians today realize that their God has coprophilic tendencies?

One wonders what value, nutritional or moral, it would serve the people to eat human feces with their bread, as God ordered. Note, God here has also ordered, the voyeuristic-like observation of the feces coming out man. How many Christians and Jews realize that they worship a Scat God?

Eating Dung And Drinking Piss

"But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (II Kings 18:27)
Comment

Whatever moral lesson an adult might gain from such questionable verses, one can only wonder. How many parents realize that their children, who might come across such filthy passages, could get the wrong message?

Any mention of eating feces and drinking urine in any secular writing would get considered obscene and sick by any righteous minded Christian. Then why should it not receive the same consideration if found in a bible? Might we ask what artistic or social value this verse presents?

Note the word "piss" stands as one of the censored vulgar words of the public television industry. If Christians wish to censor such language from secular sources, then it behooves them to give themselves as an example and thus censor the obscene verses from their own Bible.

(See also Isaiah 36:12)

Boil and Eat Your Son

"And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)
Comment

According to the Bible, a horrible famine took place in Samaria where in desperation, the people ate whatever they could. The cannibalistic eating of a son may provide sufficient nutrition for a mother but disregards the puissant nature of humans to protect their young. Although the Bible does not explain if the son had already died or if the parent deliberately killed him for food, this dreadful example goes against human nature.

Long before bibles or written language, humans evolved as social animals that required the protection of their offspring. Only the dogmatic insistence of a belief-system could supersede the natural instincts of humans. Hopefully readers of the Bible who might one day experience a famine will not subvert their natural instinct for this kind of horrific example in Scripture. May I suggest that if you cannot control your belief to eat your children, sacrifice your priest and eat him instead; that way you gain far more protein for you and your children, and when you say grace, you'll have someone to really thank for your food.

Expose Her Breasts!

"Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame. And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and make the vile, and will set thee as gazingstock." (Nahum 3:5-6)

"Look, I am against you!- declares Yahweh Saboath- I shall lift your skirts as high as your face and show your nakedness to the nations, your shame to the kingdoms. I shall pelt you with filth." (Nahum 3:6, The New Jerusalem Bible)
Comment

Some think these verses describe a genius of a poet. If judged as such, it can only come from its sharpness and vividness. But it also describes vulgarity and hatred, even if it aims against the harlotry of the city of Nineveh.

Few scholars today believe that these verses come as a direct quote from God. But a fundamentalist who believes every word of the Bible, must also accept these words as Godly. If so, then how can one not see God in a cruel vulgar light?

"Filth" here refers to dung. (See also Malachi 2:2-3 where God says "I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces...")

Fatal Orgasm

"And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:7-10)
Comment

The term "onanism," from the name Onan, has come to stand for masturbation which has suffered a fate similar to sodomy in the sense that it has evolved to have a meaning far different from its original usage.

Dictionaries define onanism as "male masturbation" or "Uncompleted coitus." According to interpretations of the Bible, Onan removed his penis from his partner's vagina before he ejaculated so that his seed fell onto the ground. This displeased God so much that he killed him! Onanism has also received a another definition of "self pollution" which has caused misery throughout the centuries. God killed Onan because, rather than to impregnate his brother's wife-- thus extending his line, Onan chose to interrupt his coitus before he could impregnate Tamar. Onan had a logical reason for doing so, one that involved Jewish law of those ancient days. During Biblical times, any child born to the wife of the eldest son died without heirs - and if his wife had no children sired by a relative of her dead spouse - then the dominance would pass to the second son. Onan stood to lose a great deal if he complied with his father's order. Had he been asked to marry his brother's wife, thus transferring her to his possession, he no doubt would have completed the act. Then the resultant child would have been his, legally as well as physically.

Some time during the centuries, the character of the sinful act was changed. Instead of being recognized as a seldom performed interrupting of coitus, it became accepted as any form of self-stimulation that resulted in orgasm, and the entire character of the deed became altered. Onanism came to mean a sinful act of masturbation! This has resulted in a general bad impression of masturbation even in secular beliefs. For example many a parent has told his son not to masturbate for fear of going blind. [I masturbated only until I needed glasses, Ed.]

Fecal disposal

"And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee: For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall they camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee." (Deuteronomy 23:13-14)
Comment

These verses ask us to believe that God has concern for fecal waste disposal outside a military camp because God personally wishes to walk within the camp. Now really!

God Given Hemorrhoids

"The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed." (Deuteronomy 28:27)

"But the hand of the LORD was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them with emerods, [even] Ashdod and the coasts thereof" (I Samuel 5:6)

"And it was [so], that, after they had carried it about, the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts." (I Samuel 5:9)
Comment

When Israel felt rebellious against God's plan, He threatened them with type of plague: "emerods" or by today's terminology, "hemorrhoids."

No wonder why so many atheists consider God a pain in the ass. But then again, Christians and Jews develop hemorrhoids too. If you happen to develop hemorrhoids, then you can trust the Bible that God considers you an enemy.

God's Bowel Diseases

"Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

"And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease. And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers." (II Chronicles 12:18-19)
Comment

Another among many instances in the Bible where the Lord smites, not only men, but all the people including women and children.

Why God would concern himself with giving an incurable cruel bowel disease where the person's guts spill out of the abdomen, goes beyond human decency and comprehension.

God's Fecal Fetish

"If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." (Malachi 2:2-3)
Comment

Amazingly God appears to have a fecal fetish.

This commandment to the priests told by the Lord gives example of the Satanic threats of curses He seems to enjoy. What should one think of a God that would smear feces upon the faces of his creations? Such vulgarity can hardly give good example to high morality.

Howl And Strip Naked

"Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls." (Micah 1:8)
Comment

The minor prophets felt influenced from Isaiah and these words of Micah indicate that he would imitate Isaiah's nudist actions as an adjunct to his prophesying.

Picture in your mind a religious man of today stripping and running around totally nude and prophesying in public, wailing and hooting at the top of his lungs. No doubt the police would snatch him up in a second while citizens stare in embarrassment. It just goes to show how far we have demeaned ourselves and our bodies as shameful.

(See also Isaiah 20:2-4)

Incestuous Relations

"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man." (Genesis 2:23)

"And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. and Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground." (Genesis 4:1-2)

"And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch..." (Genesis 4:17)
Comment

Since Eve came from Adam and due to God's edict to "be fruitful and multiply," this describes the first incestual relationship.

In 4:17 one must infer incest for Cain would have had to have sex with either his own mother, Eve, or an unnamed sister.

For other examples of Biblical incest see Gen. 20:12 where Abraham married his half-sister Sarah; Gen. 19:30-38 where Lot's daughters had intercourse with him; Gen. 38:16 where Tamar had sex with her father-in-law Judah.

People should become aware that many of today's incestuous abuses occur in Christian families and many use Biblical scripture for its justification.

Passing Wind

Wherefore my bowels shall sound like a harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh. (Isaiah 16:11)
Comment

This passage refers to the flatulent passing of gas in musical fashion from the bowels of a prophet. Could this represent a rare instance of humor in the Bible?

Piss Crimes

"therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jerobo'am, and will cut off from Jerobo'am him that pisseth against the wall..." (I Kings 14:10)
Comment

If God brings evil, then what makes Him different from Satan?

Although the unsanitary practice of urinating on walls might have caused serious erosion of the mud walls, bringing evil appears excessive punishment for such a minor offense.

(See also I Kings 16:8-11, I Kings 21:21, and II Kings 9:8-10.)

Pisseth Against Walls

"And it came to pass, when he began to reign, as soon as he sat on his throne, that he slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall, neither of his kinsfolks, nor of his friends." ( I Kings 16:11)
Comment

Consider that many Christians tell us to believe all of the Bible, must we also include this vulgar language as the inspiration of God?

(See also I Kings 14:10, 21:21; II Kings 9:8.)

Prophesy in the nude

"At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy lions, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt." (Isaiah 20:2-4)
Comment

Although Saul acted on his own, God gave Isaiah a direct injunction to prophesy in the nude, and that it should continue for three years.

God seems not the least offended by nudity when it comes to prophesying, yet he imbues his followers with shame over nudity associated with sex, especially when it involves pagan sex worship.

(See also Micah 1:8)

The Sacred Penis

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 23:1-2)
Comment

Consider the religious man who happens to accidentally receive an injury to his testicles (stones) or the loss of his penis (privy member). According to the Bible, and regardless of his righteousness or goodwill toward men, mind you, but just because he lacks a penis, he should never enter a Church or Temple.

Also pity a poor man born of a mother who, for whatever reason, including rape, may have born him out of wedlock. He too should, according to the Bible, never enter the Lord's congregation.

Note: The bastard Jesus broke God's word whenever he stepped into a Temple. Do you suppose God had him crucified for this reason?

8)
 
Kao shto je rekao Papa Leo "dobro nas je posluzio mit o hristu".

Ajmo malo da prichamo o drugim delovima. Obrati pazhnju shta cju citirati:

Judges 11:34
And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
11:35
And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
11:36
And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
11:37
And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
11:38
And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
11:39
And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
11:40
That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

Koliko josh ochiglednije ovo treba da bude. Vidish, u
Judges 11:35; (oprosti, nemam ovde ni stari ni novi zavet) se koristi izraz "rent". Poshto najverovatnije nisi upoznat sa ovim terminom, ovo je stari hebrejski obichaj da se odecja po smrti voljene osobe iscepa.

"jer ja sam otvorio svoja usta gospodu, i nemogu nazad"(valjda bi tako ishao prevod)

On je obecjao da zhrtvuje jehovi svoju jedinu cjerku. Ovde je vishe nego ochigledno da je jehova zahtevao ovo da bi obezbedio pobedu nad "Deci Amona", jer je rekao "ja nemogu nazad".

U Judges 11:37; njegova cjerka kazhe

"Dozvoli da se ova stvar uchini meni; pusti me samu na dva meseca, tako da ja mogu da odemo gore i dole po planini i da oplakujem moju nevinost".

Oplakivanje nevinosti? Nije li ochigledno shta se ovde zapravo dogadja? Ovde jehova trazhi krvnu zhrtvu device. Idemo dalje,

U Judges 11:39; (Sudijama pretpostavljam) pishe (kada dolazi do njenog oca) " onaj koji je sa njom na osnovu njegove zakletve koju je on zakleo: i ona nije znala mushkarca" i u Sudijama 11:40 "cjerke Izraela su ishle godishnje da zhale cjerku Jefte(Jephthah)". Nije li ochigledno da je jehova ZAHTEVAO ovo? Idemo dalje. Svuda u bibliji gde se govori o jaganjcima se zapravo misli na decu. To je greshka u prevodjenju (isti problem sa srednjovekovnim grimoarima - KOJI SU PISALI HRISHCJANI). Ima josh milijardu primera, recimo mogu isto da ti pishem o tome ko je zapravo jehova. Pogledajmo u Enciklopediju Britaniku, 1973, vol(tom). 15 pod "MOLOH". Stranica 674:

" Bozhanstvo kome su se nudila deca je Javeh, shef; a shto se tiche normativne hebrejske religije, jedini bog nacije koji je slavljen u ovoj vezi kao "kralj". Ova abnormalna praksa je bila toliko odvratna, u apostatnim regijama Ahaza (II Kraljevima, xvi, 3) i Manassseha (II Kraljevima, xxi, 6) da su kasniji hebreji transformisali ovu svetu titulu i asocirali je sa lazhnim imenom Moloh, iako su ove zhrtve zaista bile ponudjene stranom bogu"

Argument protiv?
 
Sasha1:
Jos nesto radite, a to je da izvrcete Sveto pismo. U Bibliji je sluzenje drugim laznim bogovima, pre svega Valu (simbolu Satane) uporedjeno sa preljubom, pa otuda i takvi graficki opisi onoga kako Bog to vidi.

Val? Mislish Bael? Baalzebub? Ovo nije "simbol" Satane, vecj njegov polubrat. Baalzebub = gospodar grada Zebuba (I Ekrona).
Znachi jehova to tako vidi? Zanimljivo. Ochito ne vidi dobro iz "oblachka". :roll:
 
Harborym:
Kao shto je rekao Papa Leo "dobro nas je posluzio mit o hristu".

Ajmo malo da prichamo o drugim delovima. Obrati pazhnju shta cju citirati:

...

Argument protiv?

S obzirom da moji prvi postovi su bili potkrepljeni predrasudama prema takvim kao ti, sto si i sam primetio, sada kad je to 'smetalo' otklonjeno mogli bi i da iskreno pricamo.

Covek je bice navika, svaka nova navika nadovezuje se na onu staru, dok ponavljanjem te iste navike ista se sve vise ojacava.
Tako ti je i sa svakim jednim covekom. Ako se neko rodi u Arapskim zemljama, najverovatnije ce biti Musliman. Ako u europskim zemljama, najvece su sanse da ce to biti hriscanin. Dakle, ako je dete zlostavljano, najverovatnije ce i ono kad odraste zlostavljati druge. Dok okolina verovatno nece naici na razumevanje, pa da se ta 'navika' iskoreni, nego ce na zlostavljnje uzvratiti zlostavljanjem. I samim time ta navika se jos vise ojacava i covek postaje jos losiji.
Ako nekom roditelji 'urezu' u pamet da je ceo svet bolestan i da boleni ljudi veoma cene kad im neko pomogne, ti ces verovatno postati lekar. Ako ti roditelji 'nametnu', kao naprimer meni, da Bog neprestano gleda na tebe sta radis, i ako uradis nesto lose tesko tebi, onda iz tebe se radja 'bolestan' Hriscanin. No ja sam tu bolest vec prelezao, ali vidim da mnogi Hriscani, nehriscani,
Muslimani, Ateisti 'bolesni', ne 'lece' jedni druge vec 'udaraju' zbog njihove 'bolesti'.
Mogao bi jos puno da pisem uvezi toga, ali znam da niko ne voli da puno cita... a ovo sam napisao kao pokusaj da se koliko toliko smanji tenzija netrpeljivosti 'jednih' prema 'drugima'.

A sada o temi...

Bog uopste nije zahtevao od Jefte da to uradi. Jefta, naviknt na zrtvovanje ljudi samo je okusao sta to znaci izgubiti nekog od najblizih, jer verovatno nije razmisljao o tome kad se zrtvovalo nekog drugog pod njegovim vodjstvom. No nema stvarno nijedna izjava u Biblijida da je to Bog trazio od Jefte ili nekog drugog nesto slicno. Dok bas na mnogim mestima u Bibliji Bog tesko osudjuje zrtvovanje ljudi, i On sam kaze da je to jedna od najvecih odvratnosti koju on ne podnosi.
Mislim da se radi samo o neshvatanju ako neko moze Bogu pripisati takve krajnje neljudske stvari.

Pozdrav!
 
Slazhem se sa tobom oko prvog dela. Ali, neke od tih stvari su nametnute, a neke dodju spontano.

Poshto su i sami istorichari zakljuchili da je jahve zapravo moloh, shta mislish nije li on izabrao drugu taktiku - religijski ratovi? Isto mu se vata, zhrtvujesh li u njegovo ime, ili ubijash li za njega.
 
Harborym:
Slazhem se sa tobom oko prvog dela. Ali, neke od tih stvari su nametnute, a neke dodju spontano.

Poshto su i sami istorichari zakljuchili da je jahve zapravo moloh, shta mislish nije li on izabrao drugu taktiku - religijski ratovi? Isto mu se vata, zhrtvujesh li u njegovo ime, ili ubijash li za njega.

Da, mogu doci i spontano, mada covek najlakse prihvata nove srvari ako su na njegovoj 'frekvenciji'.

Poznato mi je da od svih religija koje su sada 'aktuelne', Hriscani su bili najkrvaviji. Ja licno ne zelim da imama sa takvim Hriscanstvom nista. No zapazi koja je razlika Izmedju Isusa i Kasnije Njegovih apostola.

"I kad videse ucenici njegovi, Jakov i Jovan, rekose: Gospode! Hoces li da kazemo da oganj sidje s neba i da ih istrebi kao i Ilija sto ucini.
A On okrenuvsi se zapreti im i rece: ne znate kakvog ste vi duha. Jer sin covecji nije dosao da pogubi duse covecije nego da sacuva." Luka 9, 52-56

To je Hristovo ucenje.

A ovo je od apostola:
"A Petar rece Ananija: zasto napuni sotona srce tvoje da slazes Duhu Svetome i sakrijes od novca sto uze za njivu...a kad cu Ananija reci ove pade i izdahnu...a kad prodje oko tri sata, udje i zena njegova ne znajuci sta je bilo...i odmah padnu pred nogama njegovim i izdahnu." Dela apostolska 5,1-11

Dakle, Isus kaze da ubijati ljude nije od Njegovog duha, dok apostoli a i kasnije ostali sveti ocevi nisu puno marili na 'Isusov duh' nego su krenuli nekim drugim, zlim duhom.

Zato zvati se Hriscanin i biti Hriscanin razlika je to velika. Ja ne pripadam nikakvoj orgnizaciji, jer cim je u pitanju organizacija tu je i kontrola uma. Ja zelim da budem slobodan, da sam razaberem sta valja a sta ne i dobrovoljno odaberem ono sto valja.

Pozdrav!
 
Mihal, zaboravio si da ni Hrist nije pomagao onima koji ga nisu poverovali ni licemerima. Seti se šta je učinio sa smokvom koja nije imala roda. Ananija i njegova žena su tada već ušli u Crkvu dobrovoljno i bili deo zajednice, a bili su prvi koji su slagali (a nisu morali). Ne piše da je Ananiji Sv. Petar direktno oduzeo život već Bog (trebao bi da znaš da ni Apostoli nisu činili i govorili svoje već ih je vodio Sveti Duh). Ananija i njegova žena su bili bezrodna smokva koju je Bog osušio kao primer ostalima.

Inače sva su muška prvorođenčad bila posvećena Gospodu i nošena u Hram Luka 2;21. - 39. (ali nisu ubijana za istog kako neki ovde pokušavaju da predstave).
 
nije_lako:
Mihal, zaboravio si da ni Hrist nije pomagao onima koji ga nisu poverovali ni licemerima. Seti se šta je učinio sa smokvom koja nije imala roda. Ananija i njegova žena su tada već ušli u Crkvu dobrovoljno i bili deo zajednice, a bili su prvi koji su slagali (a nisu morali). Ne piše da je Ananiji Sv. Petar direktno oduzeo život već Bog (trebao bi da znaš da ni Apostoli nisu činili i govorili svoje već ih je vodio Sveti Duh). Ananija i njegova žena su bili bezrodna smokva koju je Bog osušio kao primer ostalima.

Inače sva su muška prvorođenčad bila posvećena Gospodu i nošena u Hram Luka 2;21. - 39. (ali nisu ubijana za istog kako neki ovde pokušavaju da predstave).

Razumem ja da je laz za osudu. I da je 'Bog' a ne apostol oduzeo zivot i to se slazem. I zbog toga mi i nije nesto jasno, zasto Bog uvek ceka kao neki lopov iza ugla da nam naplati nase greske, dok Njegova pomoc trazena kroz molitve je vrlo oskudna.
Nijedan covek na zemlji se ne rodi DOBROVOLJNO, a ubiti nekog da bi se strahom kasnije drzalo nekog na kontroli, smatram da je izuzetno neprihvatljiva stvar za nekog ko zeli da se zove 'ljubav'.

To su moja misljenja a volim da cujem tudja, jer ja istrazujem a nikako ne kazem da sam 'najpametniji'.
 
*Mihal*:
nije_lako:
Mihal, zaboravio si da ni Hrist nije pomagao onima koji ga nisu poverovali ni licemerima. Seti se šta je učinio sa smokvom koja nije imala roda. Ananija i njegova žena su tada već ušli u Crkvu dobrovoljno i bili deo zajednice, a bili su prvi koji su slagali (a nisu morali). Ne piše da je Ananiji Sv. Petar direktno oduzeo život već Bog (trebao bi da znaš da ni Apostoli nisu činili i govorili svoje već ih je vodio Sveti Duh). Ananija i njegova žena su bili bezrodna smokva koju je Bog osušio kao primer ostalima.

Inače sva su muška prvorođenčad bila posvećena Gospodu i nošena u Hram Luka 2;21. - 39. (ali nisu ubijana za istog kako neki ovde pokušavaju da predstave).

Razumem ja da je laz za osudu. I da je 'Bog' a ne apostol oduzeo zivot i to se slazem. I zbog toga mi i nije nesto jasno, zasto Bog uvek ceka kao neki lopov iza ugla da nam naplati nase greske, dok Njegova pomoc trazena kroz molitve je vrlo oskudna.
Nijedan covek na zemlji se ne rodi DOBROVOLJNO, a ubiti nekog da bi se strahom kasnije drzalo nekog na kontroli, smatram da je izuzetno neprihvatljiva stvar za nekog ko zeli da se zove 'ljubav'.

To su moja misljenja a volim da cujem tudja, jer ja istrazujem a nikako ne kazem da sam 'najpametniji'.
Da li je bila u pitanju samo laž za osudu ili ima mnogo više od toga? :D Blagodat Svetog Duha je bila tada jaka. Muž je doneo već odbrojan novac i bez reči Apostol je znao istinu. Žena je slagala. Mislili su da će proći bez kazne i da se neće znati (znači nisu imali ni veru, ni ljubav, ni nadu): ONI SU SE DOGOVORILI i ušli u službu mamonu.
To je bračni par, zajedno u istom grehu ... Bog je svog Sina dao za otkup naših grehova ( praroditeljskog greha Adama i Eve ) - šta misliš šta bi bilo sa ostatkom Novozavetne populacije novokrštene Svetim Duhom da je taj bračni par ostavio u životu i oprostio im greh (poslušali opet Sotonu i nisu se oduprli iskušenju, a mogli su)? Zbog koga je onda Hrist prineo sebe?
 
*Mihal*:
Harborym:
Slazhem se sa tobom oko prvog dela. Ali, neke od tih stvari su nametnute, a neke dodju spontano.

Poshto su i sami istorichari zakljuchili da je jahve zapravo moloh, shta mislish nije li on izabrao drugu taktiku - religijski ratovi? Isto mu se vata, zhrtvujesh li u njegovo ime, ili ubijash li za njega.

Da, mogu doci i spontano, mada covek najlakse prihvata nove srvari ako su na njegovoj 'frekvenciji'.

Poznato mi je da od svih religija koje su sada 'aktuelne', Hriscani su bili najkrvaviji. Ja licno ne zelim da imama sa takvim Hriscanstvom nista. No zapazi koja je razlika Izmedju Isusa i Kasnije Njegovih apostola.

"I kad videse ucenici njegovi, Jakov i Jovan, rekose: Gospode! Hoces li da kazemo da oganj sidje s neba i da ih istrebi kao i Ilija sto ucini.
A On okrenuvsi se zapreti im i rece: ne znate kakvog ste vi duha. Jer sin covecji nije dosao da pogubi duse covecije nego da sacuva." Luka 9, 52-56

To je Hristovo ucenje.

A ovo je od apostola:
"A Petar rece Ananija: zasto napuni sotona srce tvoje da slazes Duhu Svetome i sakrijes od novca sto uze za njivu...a kad cu Ananija reci ove pade i izdahnu...a kad prodje oko tri sata, udje i zena njegova ne znajuci sta je bilo...i odmah padnu pred nogama njegovim i izdahnu." Dela apostolska 5,1-11

Dakle, Isus kaze da ubijati ljude nije od Njegovog duha, dok apostoli a i kasnije ostali sveti ocevi nisu puno marili na 'Isusov duh' nego su krenuli nekim drugim, zlim duhom.

Zato zvati se Hriscanin i biti Hriscanin razlika je to velika. Ja ne pripadam nikakvoj orgnizaciji, jer cim je u pitanju organizacija tu je i kontrola uma. Ja zelim da budem slobodan, da sam razaberem sta valja a sta ne i dobrovoljno odaberem ono sto valja.

Pozdrav!

Bravo. Eto, jedan Satanista te poshtuje. Pavlovljevo hrishcjanstvo i ono izvorno hrishcjanstvo nemaju veze sa vezom. Shta mislish o Gnostizicmu?
 
Harborym:
Slazhem se sa tobom oko prvog dela. Ali, neke od tih stvari su nametnute, a neke dodju spontano.

Poshto su i sami istorichari zakljuchili da je jahve zapravo moloh, shta mislish nije li on izabrao drugu taktiku - religijski ratovi? Isto mu se vata, zhrtvujesh li u njegovo ime, ili ubijash li za njega.

:D

Ne lupetaj prijatelju! Da li ti uopste znas sta znaci Jehova u prevodu?? Ako ti je bog Sotona-Djavo, onda znas to vrlo dobro jer i ti "drsces" cekajuci kraj, kao sto su unisteni svi oni koji su se klanjali laznim bogovima! I tvom gazdi je odzvonilo zato je kao "ricuci lav" koji juri kao bez glave, jer mu je malo vremena ostalo i gleda koga ce da prozdre! Pored svega sto mu je dozvoljeno, Djavo je glup i ne moze da se meri sa Jehovinom neizmernom mudroscu. Sotona poznaje Bibliju u potpunosti i zna mnoge dogadjaje koji ce se dogoditi i pored svega upada u sopstvene zamke-nemocan je, zato i jeste kao ricuci lav-razularen kao zivotinja od besa jer vidi svoj kraj koji ce biti velicanstven-to je najvidljivije za njega! Sve Jehovine sluge radosno iscekuju taj dogadjaj i pobedu koja ce biti velicanstvena!

Da je to tako potvrdjuju i nedavni dogadjaji od 1914. god. od kada Djavo i njegove sluge-demoni nemaju pristupa nebu jer su zbaceni i sada su u blizini zemlje i sav svoj bes iskaljuju nad zemljom jer je to za njih minut, ili cak nekoliko sekundi pre nistavila!
:D
 

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