Nepokorne žene u islamu i hrišćanstvu

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Sizif

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Da se malo vratimo na položaj žene u komercijalnim religijama. Ono što hoću da istaknem je da jadan položaj žene u islamu nije mnogo bolji ni u hrišćanstvu:

Dakle, Kur'an je veoma konkretan, sura 4:34 kaže da

Muškarci vode brigu o ženama zato što je Allah dao prednost jednima nad drugima i zato što oni troše imetke svoje. Zbog toga su čestite žene poslušne i za vrijeme muževljeva odsustva vode brigu o onome o čemu treba da brigu vode, jer i Allah njih štiti. A onih čijih se neposlušnosti pribojavate, vi posavjetujte, pa ih i udarite; kad vam postanu poslušne, onda im zulum ne činite! – Allah je, zaista, uzvišen i velik!

Jeste, Alah je velik, ne mlati ženu svoju mnogo - nego samo umereno.

Na drugu stranu, Biblija takođe ne ostavlja mnogo slobodnog prostora ženama:

1 Petar, 3:
1. А тако и ви жене будите покорне својим мужевима, да ако који и не верују речи женским живљењем без речи да се добију

kao i efescima 5:
22. Жене! Слушајте своје мужеве као Господа.
23. Јер је муж глава жени као што је и Христос глава цркви, и он је спаситељ тела.

Neka mi neko kaže da nemam razloga za osećaj sažaljenja kada vidim religiozne žene koje bi opet htele da imaju jednaka prava sa muškarcima!

Što bi neko šaljivo rekao - "Svi smo mi jednaki, samo smo mi muškarci malo jednakiji od vas." Barem tako kažu "svete knjige"...
 
Грешка синко...

ХРИШЋАНСТВО успоставља хијерархију унутар породице, стављајући мужа испред жене. При томе, мужу се налаже да воли своју жену, јер је сав свет од њих рођен. А и да буде спреман да за њу да и свој живот.

МУХАМЕДАНСТВО као сатанска религија жену ставља на ниво нижег бића:

Muhamed rece: "Ne postoji nista opasnije po muskarca, od - zene." (7:33)

Muhamed rece: "Zlo je u zenama, kucama i konjima." (7:30)

Muhamed rece: "Bio mi je pokazan pakao, i vecinu onih koji su tamo su bile zene." (1:28) (1:301) (2:161) (7:124)

Muhamed zenama: "Nije li svedocenje zene upola vredno od muskog (svedocenje pred sudom) ?" One kazu: "Jeste." Muhamed rece: "To je zbog nedostatka zenske pameti." [3:826]

Muhamed kaze zenama: "Nisam video nikoga sa tolikim nedostatkom inteligencije i religioznosti kao sto ste vi." [2:541]


Prava koja muz dobija nad svojom zenom

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”Brak je vrsta zajednistva - ropstva. Ona je njegov rob. Zena mora da slusa muza u svemu sto se nje tice, izuzev ako to ne vodi neposlusnost Bogu.” [Abu Hamid al-Ghazzali 4:746]

Devojka pita "Bozjeg poslanika" (Muhameda): "O Bozji poslanice, koju vlast ima muz nad zenom ?" On rece: "Ako bi on bio prekriven od temena sve do stopala sa gnojom, i ona ga celog olizala, jo suvek mu nije dovoljno zahvalna." [4:747]
 
Evo i objasnjenja...

"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'an there have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favour of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shariah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet. (4)

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her.

d) Some fuqaha (Muslim jurists) are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect the Holy Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Now there are two possible points of wisdom in the mention. First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Quran and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behaviour know that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God. Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Quran does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Quran by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and separation of beds is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and separation of beds. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.
 
"Devojka pita "Bozjeg poslanika" (Muhameda): "O Bozji poslanice, koju vlast ima muz nad zenom ?" On rece: "Ako bi on bio prekriven od temena sve do stopala sa gnojom, i ona ga celog olizala, jo suvek mu nije dovoljno zahvalna." [4:747] "
brate,jel si ti normalan...ja sam zena ,nisam rob...a to shto si ti isro i shto ti vidish kao zenu,je shovinistichko sranje israno kroz hrishcansku crkvenu guzicu...choveku kojeg volim bicu verna do groba,ubicu za njega i sve cu da mu dam,zato shto moje srce tako oseca,a ne zato shto mi to kaze tvoj bog...je.bo te on....
 
Истине ради!!! Поштења ради!!!

22. Жене! Слушајте своје мужеве као Господа.23. Јер је муж глава жени као што је и Христос глава цркви, и он је спаситељ тела.24. Но као што црква слуша Христа тако и жене своје мужеве у свему.25. Мужеви! Љубите своје жене као што и Христос љуби цркву, и себе предаде за њу,26. Да је освети очистивши је купањем воденим у речи;27. Да је метне преда се славну цркву, која нема мане ни мрштине, или таквог чега, него да буде света и без мане.28. Тако су дужни мужеви љубити своје жене као своја телеса; јер који љуби своју жену, себе самог љуби.29. Јер нико не омрзну кад на своје тело, него га храни и греје, као и Господ цркву.
 
a pa znam taj sindrom...keva ga skinula sa sise sa 24 godine sa pechatom kako je on najbolji i najlepshi i sad muchenik mora da opravda kevu...a kako bi to drugachije izveo nego da nadje neku nesrecnicu koja nije videla mushko ni sa prozora pa ce joj on biti " sve i svja"...a on ce jadan stvarno tripovati da je pravi mushkarac...i tako celog zivota...bedak...
 
Margott:
a pa znam taj sindrom...keva ga skinula sa sise sa 24 godine sa pechatom kako je on najbolji i najlepshi i sad muchenik mora da opravda kevu...a kako bi to drugachije izveo nego da nadje neku nesrecnicu koja nije videla mushko ni sa prozora pa ce joj on biti " sve i svja"...a on ce jadan stvarno tripovati da je pravi mushkarac...i tako celog zivota...bedak...

Zivot...nekom majka nekom maceha jel? :wink:
 
Margott:
pa to...i onda se tako isfrustrirani chude shto ne vole zene...te im krive zmije,te eve i adami...pa traze boga....i onda je zena zlo...a jadan mali mushkarac,hrishcjanin,je samo hteo da sisa sisu ceo zivot...prvo kevinu a onda zeninu...ceo zivot eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeej breeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Posebno kada se religije prihvate u kasnijim godinama... kobno po okolinu.
I onda naravno nastanu poremecaji licnosti... kao recimo paranoidna persona.
Njega svi napadaju a on jadan nista ne izaziva...samo se brani...
 
Što bi neko šaljivo rekao - "Svi smo mi jednaki, samo smo mi muškarci malo jednakiji od vas." Barem tako kažu "svete knjige"...[/quote]

SIZIFE!! PA TI SI ZENSKO, PI*DO JEDNA FEMINISTICKA! A JA SE CUDIM KAKO TO DA NEKO IMA ONAKVA SHVATANJA? PROVALIO SAM TE! SAD MI JE JASNO ZASTO SECES TEME U KOJIMA SE IZNOSE ISTINE A OSTAVLJAS ZA*EBANDERE DA SE SVRCKAJU OVUDA! :lol:
 
Sizif:
Zex:
SIZIFE!! PA TI SI ZENSKO, PI*DO JEDNA FEMINISTICKA!
Feminista jesam, dok god postoji potreba za tim - tj. dok god bude tragova patrijarhata u društvu.

Ma, sad je O.k., ja sam se uplasio da nisi musko sa takvim shvatanjima. Uf, dobro je, vec sam pomislio da si derpe. Pa nista, sada mi je potpuno jasno zasto tako cvikaris nas koji se borimo za ravnopravnost polova, zenska logika je mnooogo razlicita od muske. Vi jednakost polova priznajete samo ako je sve po vasem. I kako to mislis "feminista"? Valjda "feministkinja". Sta si ti? :?: :?: :? :shock:
 
Zex:
…sada mi je potpuno jasno zasto tako cvikaris nas koji se borimo za ravnopravnost polova, zenska logika je mnooogo razlicita od muske.
Vidiš, opet si napisao tipičan oksimoron. Ovamo kažeš – boriš se za ravnopravnost polova, da bi nakon toga u istoj rečenici rekao da je ženska logika mnooooogo različita od muške.
Zex:
Vi jednakost polova priznajete samo ako je sve po vasem.
:?: Jednakost polova je veoma jasna. Kada žene budu imale ista prava kao i muškarci, onda se može govoriti o jednakosti polova. Kada islam prihvati da je i ženski i muški svedok jednak pred sudom, i kada hrišćanstvo prizna žene kao sveštenike – onda možemo govoriti o jednakosti polova.
Zex:
I kako to mislis "feminista"? Valjda "feministkinja". Sta si ti?
Feminista je muškarac, a feministkinja je žena. Svaki muškarac može biti feminista, isto kao što žena može biti pristalica patrijarhata.

Tvoj problem je u tome što ne vladaš osnovnim pojmovima o kojima se ovde govori, a to dosta otežava diskusiju.
 

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