Da li će Iran postati svjetskom silom?

Arabljani nisu bili jaki? Seldžuci? Gaznavidi? Osmanlije? Tamerlanova Imperija? Mogulsko Carstvo?

Može ona biti jaka itekako.

K'o sto rekoh, snaga je inverzno proporcionalna zaglupljenosti Islamom. Taj Tamerlan, recimo, je citavu svoju karijeru posvetio masakriranju drugih muslimana sa kojima je nominalno bio brat i urnisanju njihovih drzava koje se ni do danas nisu oporavile. Verovatno niko nije ubio vise muslimana od njega.

Uspesne zemlje su Islam cinicno koristile kao korisnu staku u vladanju. Zemlje-gubitnici poput Irana su iskreno i predano okrenute Islamu i zato osudjene da budu tezi pacijenti na svetskoj sceni.
 
Мислим да потцењујете Иран и ислам. Иран има веома високу стопу образованог и научног кадра, добар део се школује на западу и држава их враћа назад у фабрике, електране, нуклеарна постројења и огроман је њихов напредак у односу на 20ак, 30 година уназад и поред свих ратова и санкција. На страну то што је шеријат болстан, не треба га потцењивати, нетолерантан је и фанатичан и оно што га чини слабим су унутрашње поделе.
 
K'o sto rekoh, snaga je inverzno proporcionalna zaglupljenosti Islamom. Taj Tamerlan, recimo, je citavu svoju karijeru posvetio masakriranju drugih muslimana sa kojima je nominalno bio brat i urnisanju njihovih drzava koje se ni do danas nisu oporavile. Verovatno niko nije ubio vise muslimana od njega.

Istina, ali je zato bio tata. Evropa ga je prvo podržavala pred Ankaru pa se nakon bitke usrala da ne krene na nju. To dokazuje da uopšte nije nemoguće muslimanskim državama i narodima da budu jaki, pa i najjači.

Čak i ako kažeš da on nije bio ''iskreni'' musliman, sa čim bih se verovatno složio, uvek možeš umesto njega da uzmeš primer Kalifata, i njegovog gaženja Vizantije i Sasanida, upada u Iberiju, i kulturnog procvata narednih par vekova.

Inače, zanimljivo je da ako obratiš pažnju, primetićeš da se gotovo svaka muslimanska sila kroz istoriju zapravo najviše krljala sa braćom po veri.

Ono što bi mogao da kažeš je da je u modernom svetu, kad su za snagu države potrebne još neke stvari osim brojnosti i fanatizma, nemoguće za muslimansku državu da bude sila, osim ukoliko mu ga debelo da po sekularizmu.
 
Čak i ako kažeš da on nije bio ''iskreni'' musliman, sa čim bih se verovatno složio, uvek možeš umesto njega da uzmeš primer Kalifata, i njegovog gaženja Vizantije i Sasanida, upada u Iberiju, i kulturnog procvata narednih par vekova.

Taj kulturni procvat, zasnovan na iskrenom i otvorenom preuzimanju grcke i vizantijske naucne i kulturne tradicije, je jedino vredno cime Arapi mogu da se podice u celoj svojoj istoriji. Taj procvat se zavrsio pre vise od deset vekova, a danas bi bio apsolutno nezamisliv - kao sto rece neki mudri muftija umotan u krpe koga sam slusao pre par godina na nekoj tribini, "vrata su zatvorena. inovacije vise nisu potrebne. mi ne zelimo i nemamo poverenja u bilo sta novo."

Nema iskreno islamske drzave u svetu danas, a ni u proteklih dvesta godina, koja vredi i pishivog boba.
 
Победоносцев:
Nema iskreno islamske drzave u svetu danas, a ni u proteklih dvesta godina, koja vredi i pishivog boba.

Zapravo, nema takve države negde od Sulejmana Kanunija i Akbara, osim ako ne računaš neke kratke epizode tipa Nadir Šah, a i on je bio samo veliki vojskovođa, a izvorno i faktički običan bandit.

Kad sam pomenuo Indoneziju, Nigeriju i njihov kapacitet mislio sam pre svega na brojnost, naravno. Prosto, danas nije moguće zamisliti silu, niti silu u najavi, sa manje od, recimo, 130, 140 miliona stanovnika, osim ukoliko nema atomke. Ali ponavljam, osim te brojnosti, ni Indonezija ni Nigerija nemaju praktično ništa više.
 
Imaju stotine miliona gladnih, izbezumljenih i zaglupljenih stanovnika koji sprecavaju iskorenjivanje poliomielitisa jer smatraju da su vakcine "djavolska sprava za sterilisanje muslimana".

Inace, vakcine za njihovu deristad im prave u istom tom islamskom svetu.

Nikad oni nece biti vredni ni dolar po kili zive vage, svi onako djuture.

Ma sta bre pricas i bunis ovaj narod - Iran je respektabilna nuklearna snaga, a ta snaga izvire bas iz verske "zatucanosti".:cool:

To mozda tvojim Englezima ne odgovara, ali to je druga stvar!
 
Каква Нигерија. Иран има 10% нафтних и 15% гасних светских резерви, скоро 80 милиона становника, широко распрострањен интренет и релативно образовано становништво. Производи оружје, аутомобиле, са потенцијалом да направи нуклерану бомбу. Ако га израел и Америка не сјебу ускоро, касније неће ни моћи. Он неће постати сила због тога што то не одговара ни Америци ни Русији.
 
Каква Нигерија. Иран има 10% нафтних и 15% гасних светских резерви, скоро 80 милиона становника, широко распрострањен интренет и релативно образовано становништво. Производи оружје, аутомобиле, са потенцијалом да направи нуклерану бомбу. Ако га израел и Америка не сјебу ускоро, касније неће ни моћи. Он неће постати сила због тога што то не одговара ни Америци ни Русији.

Verovacu kad vidim.
 
Istina, ali je zato bio tata.

E da, jel' znas ovu sliku? Genijalna je.

Ovaj pacenik u alkovu je Bajazit, zvani Ilderim, ili Grom, sin Muratov i brat Jakupov, koji je naredio odsecanje glave Sv. Lazara na Kosovu. Ovaj kocoperni Azijat sto ga prezrivo gleda je Tamerlan. Kazu, inace, da je Bajazita posle zarobljavanja kod Angore drzao u kavezu do kraja zivota, a povremeno koristio i kao taburet.

cayhaber12473103421813031034.jpg
 
Znam tu sliku. Poprilično sam upoznat sa životima tih stepskih konjanika, pa tako i sa Tamerlanom.

Postoje tu razne priče. Naprimer, da je Lazarevu ćerku i Bajazitovu ženu Oliveru terao da mu pred Bajazitovim očima toči vino što je tada bio ekvivalent tucanja žene pred njenim mužem.

Čak kažu da je Bajazit upravo i skončao jer je od muke zbog tog prizora udarao glavom o rešetke kaveza u kom je bio dok nije pandrkn'o.

Takođe, da je Bajazita posle zarobljavanja metnuo na magarca, ali sa licem okrenutim magarčevom dupetu, što je isto bilo veliko poniženje tada, i tako ga pustio kroz svoj logor, dok su ga njegovi vojnici gađali svim i svačim, pišali po njemu, i šta sve ne.

Ima tu svega i svačega.

Znaš ovu Poovu pesmu? Napisao ju je sa 19 godina. Ovo je još skraćena verzija.

Edgar Allan Poe

Tamerlane

Kind solace in a dying hour!
Such, father, is not (now) my theme-
I will not madly deem that power
Of Earth may shrive me of the sin
Unearthly pride hath revell'd in-
I have no time to dote or dream:
You call it hope- that fire of fire!
It is but agony of desire:
If I can hope- Oh God! I can-
Its fount is holier- more divine-
I would not call thee fool, old man,
But such is not a gift of thine.

Know thou the secret of a spirit
Bow'd from its wild pride into shame.
O yearning heart! I did inherit
Thy withering portion with the fame,
The searing glory which hath shone
Amid the jewels of my throne,
Halo of Hell! and with a pain
Not Hell shall make me fear again-
O craving heart, for the lost flowers
And sunshine of my summer hours!
The undying voice of that dead time,
With its interminable chime,
Rings, in the spirit of a spell,
Upon thy emptiness- a knell.

I have not always been as now:
The fever'd diadem on my brow
I claim'd and won usurpingly-
Hath not the same fierce heirdom given
Rome to the Caesar- this to me?
The heritage of a kingly mind,
And a proud spirit which hath striven
Triumphantly with human kind.

On mountain soil I first drew life:
The mists of the Taglay have shed
Nightly their dews upon my head,
And, I believe, the winged strife
And tumult of the headlong air
Have nestled in my very hair.

So late from Heaven- that dew- it fell
(Mid dreams of an unholy night)
Upon me with the touch of Hell,
While the red flashing of the light
From clouds that hung, like banners, o'er,
Appeared to my half-closing eye
The pageantry of monarchy,
And the deep trumpet-thunder's roar
Came hurriedly upon me, telling
Of human battle, where my voice,
My own voice, silly child!- was swelling
(O! how my spirit would rejoice,
And leap within me at the cry)
The battle-cry of Victory!

The rain came down upon my head
Unshelter'd- and the heavy wind
Rendered me mad and deaf and blind.
It was but man, I thought, who shed
Laurels upon me: and the rush-
The torrent of the chilly air
Gurgled within my ear the crush
Of empires- with the captive's prayer-
The hum of suitors- and the tone
Of flattery 'round a sovereign's throne.

My passions, from that hapless hour,
Usurp'd a tyranny which men
Have deem'd, since I have reach'd to power,
My innate nature- be it so:
But father, there liv'd one who, then,
Then- in my boyhood- when their fire
Burn'd with a still intenser glow,
(For passion must, with youth, expire)
E'en then who knew this iron heart
In woman's weakness had a part.

I have no words- alas!- to tell
The loveliness of loving well!
Nor would I now attempt to trace
The more than beauty of a face
Whose lineaments, upon my mind,
Are- shadows on th' unstable wind:
Thus I remember having dwelt
Some page of early lore upon,
With loitering eye, till I have felt
The letters- with their meaning- melt
To fantasies- with none.

O, she was worthy of all love!
Love- as in infancy was mine-
'Twas such as angel minds above
Might envy; her young heart the shrine
On which my every hope and thought
Were incense- then a goodly gift,
For they were childish and upright-
Pure- as her young example taught:
Why did I leave it, and, adrift,
Trust to the fire within, for light?

We grew in age- and love- together,
Roaming the forest, and the wild;
My breast her shield in wintry weather-
And when the friendly sunshine smil'd,
And she would mark the opening skies,
I saw no Heaven- but in her eyes.

Young Love's first lesson is- the heart:
For 'mid that sunshine, and those smiles,
When, from our little cares apart,
And laughing at her girlish wiles,
I'd throw me on her throbbing breast,
And pour my spirit out in tears-
There was no need to speak the rest-
No need to quiet any fears

Of her- who ask'd no reason why,
But turn'd on me her quiet eye!

Yet more than worthy of the love
My spirit struggled with, and strove,
When, on the mountain peak, alone,
Ambition lent it a new tone-
I had no being- but in thee:
The world, and all it did contain
In the earth- the air- the sea-
Its joy- its little lot of pain
That was new pleasure- the ideal,
Dim vanities of dreams by night-

And dimmer nothings which were real-
(Shadows- and a more shadowy light!)
Parted upon their misty wings,
And, so, confusedly, became
Thine image, and- a name- a name!
Two separate- yet most intimate things.

I was ambitious- have you known
The passion, father? You have not:
A cottager, I mark'd a throne
Of half the world as all my own,

And murmur'd at such lowly lot-
But, just like any other dream,
Upon the vapour of the dew
My own had past, did not the beam
Of beauty which did while it thro'
The minute- the hour- the day- oppress
My mind with double loveliness.

We walk'd together on the crown
Of a high mountain which look'd down
Afar from its proud natural towers
Of rock and forest, on the hills-
The dwindled hills! begirt with bowers,
And shouting with a thousand rills.

I spoke to her of power and pride,
But mystically- in such guise
That she might deem it nought beside
The moment's converse; in her eyes
I read, perhaps too carelessly-
A mingled feeling with my own-
The flush on her bright cheek, to me
Seem'd to become a queenly throne

Too well that I should let it be
Light in the wilderness alone.

I wrapp'd myself in grandeur then,
And donn'd a visionary crown-
Yet it was not that Fantasy
Had thrown her mantle over me-
But that, among the rabble- men,
Lion ambition is chained down-
And crouches to a keeper's hand-
Not so in deserts where the grand-
The wild- the terrible conspire
With their own breath to fan his fire.

Look 'round thee now on Samarkand!
Is not she queen of Earth? her pride
Above all cities? in her hand
Their destinies? in all beside
Of glory which the world hath known
Stands she not nobly and alone?
Falling- her veriest stepping-stone
Shall form the pedestal of a throne-
And who her sovereign? Timur- he
Whom the astonished people saw
Striding o'er empires haughtily
A diadem'd outlaw!


O, human love! thou spirit given
On Earth, of all we hope in Heaven!
Which fall'st into the soul like rain
Upon the Siroc-wither'd plain,
And, failing in thy power to bless,
But leav'st the heart a wilderness!
Idea! which bindest life around
With music of so strange a sound,
And beauty of so wild a birth-
Farewell! for I have won the Earth.


When Hope, the eagle that tower'd, could see
No cliff beyond him in the sky,
His pinions were bent droopingly-
And homeward turn'd his soften'd eye.
'Twas sunset: when the sun will part
There comes a sullenness of heart
To him who still would look upon
The glory of the summer sun.
That soul will hate the ev'ning mist,
So often lovely, and will list
To the sound of the coming darkness (known
To those whose spirits hearken) as one
Who, in a dream of night, would fly
But cannot from a danger nigh.

What tho' the moon- the white moon
Shed all the splendour of her noon,
Her smile is chilly, and her beam,
In that time of dreariness, will seem
(So like you gather in your breath)
A portrait taken after death.
And boyhood is a summer sun
Whose waning is the dreariest one-
For all we live to know is known,
And all we seek to keep hath flown-
Let life, then, as the day-flower, fall
With the noon-day beauty- which is all.

I reach'd my home- my home no more
For all had flown who made it so.

I pass'd from out its mossy door,
And, tho' my tread was soft and low,
A voice came from the threshold stone
Of one whom I had earlier known-
O, I defy thee, Hell, to show
On beds of fire that burn below,
A humbler heart- a deeper woe.

Father, I firmly do believe-
I know- for Death, who comes for me
From regions of the blest afar,
Where there is nothing to deceive,
Hath left his iron gate ajar,
And rays of truth you cannot see
Are flashing thro' Eternity-
I do believe that Eblis hath
A snare in every human path-
Else how, when in the holy grove
I wandered of the idol, Love,
Who daily scents his snowy wings
With incense of burnt offerings
From the most unpolluted things,
Whose pleasant bowers are yet so riven
Above with trellis'd rays from Heaven,
No mote may shun- no tiniest fly-
The lightning of his eagle eye-
How was it that Ambition crept,
Unseen, amid the revels there,
Till growing bold, he laughed and leapt
In the tangles of Love's very hair?
 

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