Koliki je uticaj baznih stanica mobilne telefonije na klimatske promene?

- Kolika je ukupna energija koju emituju?

- Koliki deo nje apsorbuje vodena para u atmosferi (narocito se ovo pitanje odnosi na Telenorove stanice)?

- Kakav je uticaj Zemljinog magnetnog polja na klimu (solarne oluje izazivaju promene u magnetnom polju, dok generalni uticaj solarnih ciklusa na promene klime nikada nije objasnjen)

- Uzevsi u obzir da ometaju navigaciju ptica, leptira i pcela u zemljinom magnetnom polju, kakav bi mogao da bude njihov uticaj na cirkulaciju vode u atmosferi? https://www.ee.iitb.ac.in/~mwave/GK-cell-tower-rad-report-DOT-Dec2010.pdf

Nasao sam samo ovaj sajt http://globalmicrowave.org/

7.000 Telenorovih stanica x 10 kW = 70.000 kW = 10.000 TA peci koje rade i leti i zimi, bez prestanka. Dovoljno da podgreju nebo iznad Srbije ili ne?

A nije to baš toliko isto.

Schrodinger:

7.000 Telenorovih stanica x 10 kW = 70.000 kW = 10.000 TA peci koje rade i leti i zimi, bez prestanka. Dovoljno da podgreju nebo iznad Srbije ili ne?

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Je li to jos jedna teorija zavere?

Grof Vronski:

Isti kao uticaj mesečevih mena na pubertet komaraca !
Ili pretkosovski ciklus narodne poezije na menstruaciju bele mečke...

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Ovo su granične vrednosti. Bazne stanice građene prema najnoviijim EU normama imaju utecaj na bele mačke još 2 do 3 puta manji.

francek-slo:

Ovo su granične vrednosti. Bazne stanice građene prema najnoviijim EU normama imaju utecaj na bele mačke još 2 do 3 puta manji.

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Mogu da imaju veci ili manji uticaj na ljude zavisno od rastojanja, ali njihov uticaj na okolni vazduh nema ogranicenja. Izracena energija je srazmerna protoku informacija u mobilnim mrezama. Do 2021. ce biti 13 puta veci nego danas, danas je 13 puta veci nego sto je bio 2013...

Schrodinger:

- Kolika je ukupna energija koju emituju?

- Koliki deo nje apsorbuje vodena para u atmosferi (narocito se ovo pitanje odnosi na Telenorove stanice)?

- Kakav je uticaj Zemljinog magnetnog polja na klimu (solarne oluje izazivaju promene u magnetnom polju, dok generalni uticaj solarnih ciklusa na promene klime nikada nije objasnjen)

- Uzevsi u obzir da ometaju navigaciju ptica, leptira i pcela u zemljinom magnetnom polju, kakav bi mogao da bude njihov uticaj na cirkulaciju vode u atmosferi? https://www.ee.iitb.ac.in/~mwave/GK-cell-tower-rad-report-DOT-Dec2010.pdf

Nasao sam samo ovaj sajt http://globalmicrowave.org/

Kliknite za proširenje...

Schrodinger:

7.000 Telenorovih stanica x 10 kW = 70.000 kW = 10.000 TA peci koje rade i leti i zimi, bez prestanka. Dovoljno da podgreju nebo iznad Srbije ili ne?

Kliknite za proširenje...

odakle ti informacija o 10kw emitovanog zracenja?
da li bi mogao to da obrazlozis sto si naveo, dokumentovano, naucnim metodama merenja

10W ide po jednom kanalu, ako se uzme da prosecna stanica opsluzuje 1000 korisnika dodje se do te cifre. U ruralnim podrucjima ima manje korisnika, ali i stanica vise zraci da bi uspostavila vezu jer su rastojanja veca.

Sta kaze Telekom o ovome?

Zemljino magnetno polje ne zraci nista (zanemarljive i spore promene fluksa), ali ima jednak uticaj na klimu kao CO2: https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html

Ko ima pored sebe baznu stanicu taj se nece najesti i naziveti jos dugo

- 10W po kamnalu je bilo kod analognih sistema dok kod GSM korisnik uzima dio vremena. Puno zauzeta GSM bazna stanica zrači 10W
- Absorbcija el.mag. talasa u vazduhu približna je vakuumu što znači da se energija u vazduhu ne troši inače bi radioveze bile nemoguče.
- i.t.d. ..... i.t.d. tako da je odgovor Grofa Wronskog veoma blizu istini.

francek-slo:

- Absorbcija el.mag. talasa u vazduhu približna je vakuumu što znači da se energija u vazduhu ne troši inače bi radioveze bile nemoguče.

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Da ali u vazduhu se na vecim visinama nalazi vodena para, zatim kondenzovana voda u tecnom obliku - sve sto se emituje apsorbuju oblaci pre ili kasnije, tesko da nesto od toga stigne do jonosfere (a kada stigne, sta se desava tamo?), ili do blizeg Van Alenovog pojasa. Veliki deo energije se izgubi u mobilnim vezama (sto su blize frekvenciji od 2.4 GHz, na kojoj zrace Telenorove stanice, vise se gubi i signal teze prolazi), takodje u horizontalnom pravcu se manje gubi nego u ostalim jer nema oblaka.

Druga stvar je magnetno polje samo po sebi. Zemljino magnetno polje se ne apsorbuje nigde (nema ni sta), ali ipak deluje?

Generalni uticaj magnetnog polja na cirkulaciju naelektrisanih fluida i gasova (= oblaka) je dobro poznat. Kao i obrnut proces - podzemne vode koje se naelektrisu trenjem o stene, ili slojevi zemljinog jezgra koji stvaraju magnetosferu planete...

francek-slo:

- 10W po kamnalu je bilo kod analognih sistema dok kod GSM korisnik uzima dio vremena. Puno zauzeta GSM bazna stanica zrači 10W

Kliknite za proširenje...

Korisnik izraci tu razliku na otvorenom umesto bazne stanice, i tako hiljadu njih, dobije se isti rezultat...

Schrodinger:

10W ide po jednom kanalu, ako se uzme da prosecna stanica opsluzuje 1000 korisnika dodje se do te cifre. U ruralnim podrucjima ima manje korisnika, ali i stanica vise zraci da bi uspostavila vezu jer su rastojanja veca.

Sta kaze Telekom o ovome?

Zemljino magnetno polje ne zraci nista (zanemarljive i spore promene fluksa), ali ima jednak uticaj na klimu kao CO2: https://phys.org/news/2014-05-earth-magnetic-field-important-climate.html

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znaci, nema naucnog dokaza, da je neka naucna institucija, naucnik, inspekcija, strucna komisija, ili sta god, merila i izmerila zracenje u vrednosti od 10KW sa bilo koje telenor ili telekom bazne stanice mobilne telefonije bilo gde u Srbiji?

Schrodinger:

7.000 Telenorovih stanica x 10 kW = 70.000 kW = 10.000 TA peci koje rade i leti i zimi, bez prestanka. Dovoljno da podgreju nebo iznad Srbije ili ne?

Kliknite za proširenje...

Ne...

Saliva:

inspekcija, strucna komisija, ili sta god, merila i izmerila zracenje u vrednosti od 10KW sa bilo koje telenor ili telekom bazne stanice mobilne telefonije bilo gde u Srbiji?

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Neverovatno je da nigde nema tih podataka, ukupna snaga zracenja je kao potrosnja struje, zna li se uopste koliko struje "vuce" mobilna telefonija?

Magnetno polje je potpuno druga prica - sto je veca talasna duzina (i samim tim manja energija zracenja), izdvojenost magnetne komponente talasa je veca u odnosu na elektricnu. Kod elektromagnetnog polja strujne mreze elektricna i magnetna komponenta se uzimaju odvojeno.
Ako se uzme u obzir na kom rastojanju pozadinsko polje baznih stanica ometa navigaciju ptica u Zemljinom polju (to se desava kada je losa vidljivost), da li bi moglo da ometa i cirkulaciju naelektrisanih oblaka koji su takodje u interakciji sa njim?

Schrodinger:

Neverovatno je da nigde nema tih podataka, ukupna snaga zracenja je kao potrosnja struje, zna li se uopste koliko struje "vuce" mobilna telefonija?

Magnetno polje je potpuno druga prica - sto je veca talasna duzina (i samim tim manja energija zracenja), izdvojenost magnetne komponente talasa je veca u odnosu na elektricnu. Kod elektromagnetnog polja strujne mreze elektricna i magnetna komponenta se uzimaju odvojeno.
Ako se uzme u obzir na kom rastojanju pozadinsko polje baznih stanica ometa navigaciju ptica u Zemljinom polju (to se desava kada je losa vidljivost), da li bi moglo da ometa i cirkulaciju naelektrisanih oblaka koji su takodje u interakciji sa njim?

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Šta pišeš ti? Magnetno polje je druga priča? Pozadinsko polje?

Ptice prate linije zemljinog magnetnog polja pomocu cestica magnetita koji im sluzi za orijentaciju sever-jug. Te cestice reaguju i na niskofrekventno zracenje iako ono nema nikakvu energiju (energija je srazmerna frekvenciji), ali je nosilac promenljivog fluksa magnetnog polja. Usled interferencije zracenja koja dolaze iz raznih predajnika ili blizine jednog (ukljucujuci i radare) redovno se desava da promase putanju kada prelecu severnu Ameriku da bi stigle do Meksika...
Zavisno od visine na kojoj se nalaze bazne stanice i oblaci (ili vodena para koja se krece ka njima), ovo bi moglo da utice i na meteoroloske procese na koje inace utice zemljin magnetizam?

6.2 Effect on Birds
When birds are exposed to weak electromagnetic fields, they disorient and begin to fly in all
directions, which explain migratory birds undermining navigational abilities. A large number of
birds like pigeons, sparrows, swans are getting lost due to interference from the new "unseen
enemy", i.e. mobile phone masts. Several million birds of 230 species die each year from
collisions with telecommunications masts in the United States during migration. Accidents
happen mainly in the night, in fog, or bad weather, when birds might be using the earth's
magnetic field for navigation, and could be seriously disoriented by the microwave radiation
from telecommunication masts.

Nisi objasnio boldovano iz prošlog posta... samo si još više stvari nabacao bez smisla.

Pa elektromagnetno polje dalekovoda nema nikakvu energiju (snagu zracenja u vatima) ali ipak deluje. Hteo sam da kazem da se kod ovog zracenja ne moze sve posmatrati kroz prizmu snage u W po jedinici povrsine, to je pojednostavljena slika. Tu postoje termalni i netermalni efekti, a snaga zracenja se odnosi samo na ove prve (koje strujno polje, za razliku od mikrotalasa, uopste nema).

Nasao sam jednu teoriju iz 2016. na ovu temu:

Martin, W. (2016) KELEA, Cosmic Rays, Cloud Formation and Electromagnetic Radiation: Electropollution as a Possible Explanation for Climate Change. Atmospheric and Climate Sciences, 6, 174-179. doi: 10.4236/acs.2016.62015.
ABSTRACT
The basic premise of this article is that human generated electromagnetic radiation is contributing to global warming. It may do so by diverting an energy force termed KELEA (kinetic energy limiting electrostatic attraction) from its presumed association with cosmic rays. Cosmic ray delivered KELEA is viewed as normally participating in the formation of cloud condensation nuclei (CCN). It may do so by transforming electrostatically inert particles into electrostatic aerosols capable of acting as CCN. The resulting clouds act as a reflective barrier to some of the infrared radiation from the sun and, thereby, reduce the earth’s heat. This article proposes that increasing levels of electromagnetic radiation in the atmosphere is reducing the capacity of cosmic rays to deliver adequate KELEA to maintain climate stability through optimal cloud formation. Specifically, the fluctuating electrical fields accompanying electromagnetic radiation may do so by competitively withdrawing some of the KELEA from the incoming cosmic rays. Previously described studies by Dr. Wilhelm Reich attributed to an energy force termed orgone, are consistent with weather activity being inducible using a device that likely delivers KELEA to the atmosphere. In addition to the foregoing consideration, there are many agricultural and industrial applications of KELEA activated fluids that can reduce carbon emissions. It is important that the scope of climate science be broadened to include a detailed understanding of KELEA and of its many potential practical applications in addressing global warming.

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=64084

Odlican video. Nego evo jedne revolucionarne teorije na temu kako radio talasi ostecuju ozonski omotac (nisam video ovaj link na sajtu iz uvodnog posta): http://broadcast.homestead.com/Learnmore.html

Dear Colleagues,

The Swedish Institute of Space Physics have already proven that radio waves stimulate a known ozone depletion mechanism and warned that global broadcast is a major public concern.
Broadcast Theory reveals that there is indeed a connection between our historic use of broadcast frequencies and the global climate.

http://www.livingplanet.be/globalchange.htm

The DEMETER satellite project (partly) from the Laboratoire de Physique et Chimie de l'Environnement (LPCE) at the french National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) has the objective to investigate the ionospheric perturbations due to the seismic activity, and the global study of the Earth electromagnetic environment. Dr. Michel Parrot, the principal investigator of the DEMETER project, and others, have studied and published about the ionospheric effects of anthropogenic low frequency electromagnetic radiation from power lines and transmitters, and high frequency broadcasting stations (to some MHz frequencies). All the observations indicate that Power Line Harmonic Radiation (PLHR) influences the atmosphere-ionosphere-magnetosphere coupling. On one hand, non linear interactions between electrons and PLHR can participate in the precipitation of electrons from the slot region in the radiation belts, on the other hand, main part of the PLHR energy dissipates in the lower ionosphere and modifies the ionospheric currents. This problem now requires serious attention because the electrical power consumption is always increasing in the world. It was also found that the very low frequency fields from ground-based transmitters (used for radio-navigation and communications) can also have an influence. Their ionospheric perturbations include: the triggering of new waves, ionospheric heating, wave-electron interactions, and particle precipitation. At high frequencies (to some MHz but not in the GHz range), broadcasting stations utilise powerful transmitters which can also heat the ionosphere and change the temperature and the density. According to Dr. Parrot, all these wave dissipations in the ionosphere could participate to the global warming of the Earth because the change in global temperature increases the number of natural lightning discharges in the atmosphere. Then the supplementary lightning discharges produce more magnetospheric whistlers which could produce heating and ionization in the lower ionosphere. Furthermore, it is a feedback mechanism because two different processes could be involved. First, lightning is a source of NOx, and NOx affects the concentration of ozone in the atmosphere which contributes to the greenhouse effect. Second, precipitation of energetic electrons by man-made waves may trigger other lightning discharges. It explains the importance of the study of such man-made waves (see the links below for more information).

The higher frequency radiation (900 MHz and more) from cell phone use and cell phone transmission base stations, cannot directly interact with the ionosphere. But maybe this radiation could also result in higher global temperatures due to other effects/interactions in the atmosphere ? There was a news item claiming that a group of fifty scientists in Columbia have revealed that the explosive application of mobile phones (and other man-made electromagnetic sources) can contribute to global warming, but I haven't seen confirmation of that news item.

The Swedish Institute of Space Physics have already proven that radio waves stimulate an ozone depletion mechanism and warned that global broadcast is a major public concern. Broadcast Theory reveals that there is indeed a connection between our historic use of broadcast frequencies and the global climate.

“The processes in this transition region connect the solar and magnetospheric effects with the atmos[/I]pheric response which, in fact, determine space weather in the Earth’s environment. This region is also the part of the Earth’s atmosphere where electromagnetic radiation from natural sources such as lightnings, and artificial sources such as radio, TV and radar transmitters, exhibit resonance and other interaction phenomena. The impact of these natural and man-made effects on the Earth’s space environment are of major public concern. Controlled experiments using purpose-built radio transmitters have shown that non-linear interactions in the ionosphere give rise to noise-like secondary EM radiation. This radiation is particularly strongly excited when the frequency of the injected radio wave is near a harmonic of the ionospheric electron cyclotron frequency. Similar sideband structures are expected when radio waves from powerful broadcast stations propagate in the ionosphere.”

Sudeci po ovome perturbacije u jonosferi izaziva frekvencija od 50Hz, medjutim treba imati u vidu da je i mobilna telefonija modulisana na niske frekvencije (8 i 16Hz)
http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU2007/02495/EGU2007-J-02495.pdf?PHPSESSID=e

This paper is related to the first in-situ observations of strong ionospheric perturbations
close to the VLF transmitter NWC in Australia. NWC is one of the most powerful
VLF transmitters in the world and it is located at a low L-shell value (L=1.49).
Waves and plasma parameters are recorded by the low orbiting satellite DEMETER.
Electrostatic waves from HF to ELF ranges are generated and strong turbulence appears.
Fluctuations of electron and ion densities are observed as well as increase of
temperature. The perturbations are well located to the geographic North of the transmitter
and cover a surface of ∼ 500,000 km2
. This area is centred at the altitude of the satellite (700 km) around the magnetic field line which has a foot at the location of the transmitter. This phenomenon is due to the electron and ion heating of the ionosphere
induced by the powerful transmitter VLF wave. A much smaller effect is also
observed in the Northern hemisphere at the conjugated location. This ionospheric perturbation
observed for the first time is in addition to the already known precipitation
of the energetic particles which interact with the VLF wave of the transmitter through
a cyclotron resonance mechanism. The particle precipitation zone is located south of
the transmitter at a slightly larger L value (1.9).

ftp://ftp.ingv.it/pro/terrasol/ADS_...012_2015/Geospace_perturbations_P&CE_2015.pdf

4.1.
Perturbations from Power Lines PLHR’s (Power Line Harmonic Radiation) are the ELF and VLF waves emitted by the power linesat the harmonics of 50 Hz (or 60 Hz in USA). But these lines are not alone to radiate harmonics.Direct observations of PLHR by satellites are rather rare (Parrot, 1995) and shown in few papers(indirect effects are more often reported). Non linear interactions between electrons and PLHR canparticipate in the precipitation of electrons from the slot region in the radiation belts, on the otherhand, main part of the PLHR energy dissipates in the lower ionosphere and modifies theionospheric currents. This problem now requires serious attention because the electrical powerconsumption is always increasing in the world.A systematic research on PLHR’s has been performed using all burst DEMETER data. From VLFspectrograms, it is easy to find at the satellite altitude, the spectral lines separated by 50 Hz in 17Europe and by 60 Hz in USA (Němec et al., 2007 and references therein). Examples of PLHR’shave been published by Parrot and Němec (2009) and the Fig. 8 shows one of these events.4.2. Perturbations from VLF TransmittersAt VLF frequencies between 10 and 20 kHz, the ground based transmitters are used for radionavigation and communications. Their ionospheric perturbations include: the triggering of newwaves, ionospheric heating, wave electron interactions, and particle precipitation. At HFfrequencies, the broadcasting stations utilize powerful transmitters which can heat the ionosphereand change the temperature and the density. All these wave dissipations in the ionosphere couldparticipate to the global warming of the Earth because the change in global temperature increasesthe number of natural lightning discharges in the atmosphere. Then the supplementary lightningdischarges produce more magnetospheric whistlers which, in turn, could produce heating andionization in the lower ionosphere.The ground-based VLF transmitters are mainly used for communications by the army. They emit atfixed frequencies and their waves are propagated and bouncing in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide.But the ionosphere is not regular and these waves can also cross the ionosphere and be observed bya satellite. DEMETER has shown that the most powerful transmitter NWC in Australia can perturband heat the ionosphere on a vast scale. The Fig. 9 shows an example of these ionosphericmodifications which are observed at the satellite altitude. The waves, which cross the ionosphereand propagate in the opposite hemisphere, can also perturb the particles of the radiation belts due towave-particle interaction as it has been studied by Sauvaud et al. (2008).Furthermore, there is a potential feedback mechanism because two different processes could beinvolved. First, lightning is a source of NOx, and NOx affects the concentration of ozone in theatmosphere which contributes to the greenhouse effect. Second, precipitation of energetic electrons 18by man-made waves may trigger other lightning discharges. It explains the importance of the studyof such man-made waves (Parrot and Zaslavski, 1996).It must be also noted that anomalous propagation of the navigation VLF transmitters' signals hasbeen detected before the occurrence of earthquakes when the epicenter is located between thetransmitter and the receiver (see for example, Molchanov et al. 2006 and Rozhnoi et al., 2009), aswell as unexpected anomalous pre-seismic transmission resulted in VHF radio waves (Fujiwara etal., 2004; Moriya et al. 2010).