Konstantin Veliki
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U odnosu na druge ratove u balkanskim je bilo mnogo manje zlocina. Vise je bilo zlocina nad Muslimanima u Prvom srpskom ustanku nego u balkanskim ratovima.
Порекло Македонаца
- Začetnik teme Sotir zvani djubre
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gost 371695
Elita
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Pojam Stara Srbija političko-geografski obični konstrukt iz 19.veka , i ne zna se šta on zapravo predstavlja sem običnog opisa otimanja i ratovanja srednjovekovnih baraba.
Sam pojam je kontradiktoran i zapravo sjebava srpske nacionaliste koje imaju pretenizje , jer ako postoji Stara Srbija onda mora postoja i neka Mlađa Srbija tj.osvojene tuđe oblasti.
Ne budali kada ne raspolazes sa dovoljno znanja ...
Q. in perpetuum hibernum
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Pojam Stara Srbija političko-geografski obični konstrukt iz 19.veka , i ne zna se šta on zapravo predstavlja sem običnog opisa otimanja i ratovanja srednjovekovnih baraba.
Sam pojam je kontradiktoran i zapravo sjebava srpske nacionaliste koje imaju pretenizje , jer ako postoji Stara Srbija onda mora postoja i neka Mlađa Srbija tj.osvojene tuđe oblasti.
Ma dobro, ali svakako irelevantan je u ovom kontekstu, jer velika većina ove oblasti ne potpada pod njega.
haeul
Poznat
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Није добро, јер особа којој се обрађаш - иначе ужасна незналица - користи речник који се никако не може толерисати у пристојном друштву.
Стара Србија је географски појам за област која је чинила језгро државе Немањића. Сам појам потиче из 19. века, али разлог због кога је тако названа је историјска чињеница (настрану то што је били и старијих 'Србија').
Poslednja izmena:
Konstantin Veliki
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Nova Srbija je inace Sumadija i Vojvodina.
Sumadija je bila prasuma (osim Beograda) i Vojvodina mocvara za vreme Nemanjica.
Sumadija je bila prasuma (osim Beograda) i Vojvodina mocvara za vreme Nemanjica.
Tuganadlanu
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Mora da su Makedonci zbog svesnosti da žive u istoirjskoj Staroj Srbiji(delom) dobili napad akutne starosti pa se zbog toga pozivaju na Acu Makedonskog , ali svi znamo da je i Aco bio Srbin(Lesendro Srbljanin i supruga mu Roksa) tako da kako god bilo sve je ovo Stara Srbija ma koliko sredovečna bila i u dubokom klimakterijumu.
Konstantin Veliki
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Makedonci u 19. veku nisu bili sigurno sta su Bugari, Srbi ili nesto zasebno.
A ova treca struja je tek pobedila za vreme komunizma. Da nije bilo komunizma Makedonci bi se utopili u Srbe, kao vecina Vlaha koji su imali mnogo veci jezicki jaz ili Bugari i Makedonci koji su dosli u Srbiju i postali Srbi dok kazes keks.
A ova treca struja je tek pobedila za vreme komunizma. Da nije bilo komunizma Makedonci bi se utopili u Srbe, kao vecina Vlaha koji su imali mnogo veci jezicki jaz ili Bugari i Makedonci koji su dosli u Srbiju i postali Srbi dok kazes keks.
ccaterpillar
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Нoва Србија је Веља Илић.
Tuganadlanu
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Ne bih rekao.
Od ilindenskog ustanka postoji vmro, i on je uvek bio podeljen na dve struje sve do 2.sv.rata , jedna makedonska a druga probugarska , dok srpske struje u vmro nikad nije bilo.
Tako da možemo okačiti mačku o rep da bi se oni utopili u Srbe jer nikad nijedna jaka prosrpska organiziacija nije postojala u Makedoniji.
Možda je postojala u ovom makedonskom delu Stare Srbije ali im je Tito zatro sve tragove.
Vlasi u Srbiji nikad nisu imali određeni bar pokrajniski identitet koji bi mogao preći u neki nacionalni ,i zato su oni upali u srpski nacionalni korpus bez problema , dok u Makedoniji je uvek postojao taj pokrajinski indetitet koji je bio i obeležen jezičkom posebnošću u odnosu na Bugare a pogotovo na Srbe.
Konstantin Veliki
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Bilo je cetnika koji su bili za Srbiju u Makedoniji.
A VMRO jeste bila bugarska organizacija, a tek onda i makedonska kad Srbija je vec posedovala Makedoniju i koja je bila protiv srpske vlasti (tako je prosrpska VMRO totalni paradoks, jer oni se i nisu trebali buniti).
Timocka Krajina je imala svoj identitet kako da nije.
- - - - - - - - - -
Inace posle 2. svetskog rata je bilo 25 % Srba u Makodoniji. A onda se taj broj smanjivao.
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Vlasi su imali jos uz to veliku svoju drzavu Rumuniju.
- - - - - - - - - -
Ja sam inace bugarofil moglo se uzeti samo Skoplje gde je bilo jaceg srpskog identiteta i ostatak dati Bugarima da se smire. Ako bi se smirili od toga i ne bi trazili Nis.
A VMRO jeste bila bugarska organizacija, a tek onda i makedonska kad Srbija je vec posedovala Makedoniju i koja je bila protiv srpske vlasti (tako je prosrpska VMRO totalni paradoks, jer oni se i nisu trebali buniti).
Timocka Krajina je imala svoj identitet kako da nije.
- - - - - - - - - -
Inace posle 2. svetskog rata je bilo 25 % Srba u Makodoniji. A onda se taj broj smanjivao.
- - - - - - - - - -
Vlasi su imali jos uz to veliku svoju drzavu Rumuniju.
- - - - - - - - - -
Ja sam inace bugarofil moglo se uzeti samo Skoplje gde je bilo jaceg srpskog identiteta i ostatak dati Bugarima da se smire. Ako bi se smirili od toga i ne bi trazili Nis.
Tuganadlanu
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Odakle ti ovaj podatak od ni manje ni više nego 25% Srba u Makedoniji posle 2.sv.rata??
Daj nemoj da daješ neke sulude podatke koji nemaju veze sa stvarnošću , jer da je tako onda Makedonija ne bi ni postojala u SFRJ jer bi Makedonci bili manjina u toj republici ako uračunao Albance.
A zašto si Bugarofil?? , ovo me zanima jer nikad mi nisu bili jasno ljudi koji imaju "filiju" prema nekom narodu osim svog.
Pravi Vlah
Domaćin
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Ниси чуо да су 90% становника били кметови и (мало мање експлоатисани) сточари? Мислиш да је неки кмет марио за кога врши принудни рад? Мислиш да се властела поистовећала са кметовима својих имања? Властелин се поистовећао са својим кметовима толико колико се чобанин поистовећује са својим стадом.
Tuganadlanu
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Ja sam brate vlaški davno odustao od ovih mitomana i njihovog pećinskog kontanja istorije i ljudskih odnosa , ali zna biti zanimljivo ma koliko se ponavlja ta neiscrpna glupost srpskih nacionalista iliti kako ih ja zovem "raspikuća".
Oni ne kontaju da su tad jedini Srbi bili Nemanjići i ostala vlastela i popovi , dok 99% naroda je bilo polurobovsko(kmetsko) o čemu svedoče i poklanjanje celih sela tj.ljudi manastirima , ada ne govorim kako vladar ako ima praznu zemlju dovede(kupi) kmetove odakle god hoće ma koje etnije bili.
Jbg tužno je to kad srpski nacionalisti misle da si direktni potomci Nemanjinih muda , i još kad kažu :"Eh kako smo u vreme Nemanjića MI bili veliki i jaki" i slične neboluze.
Nemanjići oslobodili Makedniju?!
, ono već zamišljam kako sa suzama u očima i cvećem ih dočekuje ishićeni narod , a onda srpski kralj sa patrijarhom drži besedu narodu, a srpski bajraci se vijore i sunce ih sve obasjava za svetu srpsku stvar.
Konstantin Veliki
Buduća legenda
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Dobro nacionalisti pricaju koljesta, ali da si ti bolji bas ne bi reko.
Inace ovih 25 % sam cuo od Cedomir Antica kod neke emisije.
Inace ovih 25 % sam cuo od Cedomir Antica kod neke emisije.
Tuganadlanu
Primećen član
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Ako imaš nešto da mi zamerišu vezi mojih stavova u smislu da nešto lažem,mitoamnski tumačim,....slobodno reci ,a ne da mi daš kvalifickiacju bez argumentata i dokaza.
A šta reći o tebi kad pišeš na istorijskoj temi a argumentacija ti je na nivou "čuo sam"??
Posle 2. svetskog rata je bilo 25 % Srba?
Posto onih 20 citata 'nije upalilo' nastavljam sa copy/paste citatima. Ovo je iz "Carnegie Endowment for International peace - REPORT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION - To Inquire into the causes and Conduct OF THE BALKAN WARS, PUBLISHED BY THE ENDOWMENT WASHINGTON, D.C. 1914"
URL:
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/index.html
Servian Macedonia (a)
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/chapter4_2a.html
Servian Macedonia (b)
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/chapter4_2b.html
1) "In the words of the Socialist Servian paper, Radnitchke Novine, "If the liberation of these territories is a fact, why then is this exceptional regime established there? If the inhabitants are Servians why are they not made the equals of all the Servians; why is the constitutional rule not put in operation according to which 'all Servians are equal before the law'? If the object of the wars was unification, why is not this unification effectively recognized, and why are these exceptional ordinances created, such as can only be imposed upon conquered countries by conquerors? Moreover, our constitution does not admit of rules of this nature!"
As a matter of fact, if one did not know what Macedonia is, one might guess it from the publication of these ordinances. Clearly Macedonia was not "Old Servia" unified, since the population is treated as "rebels in a perpetual state of revolt." What the ordinances had in view were not isolated criminals,— they had accomplices and people who would hide them everywhere."
2) "It was to be expected that those territories in Macedonia which were, according to the treaty, to remain Servian, should receive the most serious attention. Uskub, Koumanovo, Tetovo, Gostivar, in a word the whole northeast corner of Macedonia, was to feel the first brunt of Serbization. At Koumanovo the priest Yanev, the Archbishop's vicar, was driven out on March 11/24, after a violent scene with one of those Servian chieftains who became officers, one Liouba Voulvits. He pulled the priest by the beard, beat him and finally said to him that "he would not kill him, because the Servians were a civilized nation, not savages like the Bulgarians." "I give you up to this evening to clear out of Servian territory, otherwise, dog, you shall be killed." The violence used by this same Voulvits in the villages whose population he was persuading to become Servian, not to read Bulgarian books, etc., may be passed over in silence. This same Voulvits employed the same tactics for the vicars of Kratovo and Palanka, and for the population of the villages. As a result, the towns of Koumanovo, Palanka, Kratovo, Gostivar and the surrounding villages, the nehie of St. Nicolas, and the villages of Uskub and Tetovo, were formally proclaimed Servian at the moment of the outbreak of the war. Schoolmasters and priests who were unwilling to submit fled and took refuge in Bulgaria. The only places left to resist were the towns of Uskub and Tetovo.
To terrorize the population of Tetovo was easy. Tetovo had been in a state of panic since May 23/June 5. The municipal authorities, followed by bands and a crowd of Turkish children, harangued the inhabitants, inviting them to become "volunteers" against the "worst enemy" of the Servian state. These processions took place daily for three days, but the end not being secured, they were followed by repression, domiciliary visitation and the persecution of suspected citizens. A certain Pano Grantcharov, or Gherov, tried to commit suicide to escape being entered as a Servian volunteer. Greater success was gained in the villages, after beating the inhabitants, as was done at Stentche, Volkovia, Jiltche, Raotintsi, Lechok. On May 29/June 11 the priest Anguelov, the Archbishop's vicar, was incarcerated and the prefect told him that all those calling themselves Bulgarians were regarded as rebels against the authority. They were evidently in a hurry to make an end of Bulgarism, and on June 6/19, all the presidents of communes and all village priests were summoned together in a Serbized monastery. The representatives of Servian temporal and ecclesiastical power were present, and after a long discourse in honor of the historic glories of Servia, it was proposed to the assembled priests and heads of communes, "that they should become Servian and send a telegram to King Peter." A single priest saved himself by flight and two village priests were absent."
3) "At Monastir (Bitolia), the chief place of the vilayet, and likewise coveted by the Servians "beyond" the frontier, the counting of the population was begun by the middle of December. Special commissions were sent into the villages with the object of persuading the population to declare itself Servian, by forcing the churches and the schools to become Servian. After that the disarmament of the population followed."
4) "In the course of the days June 17 to 19 (June 30 to July 2) more than 600 persons were arrested at Monastir. They were kept in strict confinement until July 13/26, when the Bulgarian defeat had become perfectly well known. Then the less turbulent among the peasants and artizans began to be set free, on condition of taking no part in national agitation."
5) The Servian commander of Resen (Resna) was equally dissatisfied with the state of feeling in that town, which was a republican center, and the birthplace of the Turkish Major Niazi-bey, who started the revolution in 1908 there. On December 9/22, 1912, he had called the notables of Resen before him to accuse them of being disloyal subjects, and of fomenting discord between rival nationalities.
Slede citati koji nisu iz 'Carnegie Endowment'-a.
i) National Geographic Magazine, 1917:
"'Neither Bulgar nor Serb' said one such old woman, defiantly, when we left the Monastir road at Dobraveni. 'I am Macedonian only and I am sick of war'."
ii) Petar Dragasevic, 1871:
- "Macedonians are the oldest Slavs on this Illyrian peninsula, and possibly in Europe."
- "Today, the Macedonians occupy almost the whole coast of the White Sea; in the east they mix with the Bulgarians from Thrace, to the west with the Albanians of Albania and Epirus, and in the north with Serbia in the borderlands of the Shar Mountains. Despite all of this, in their customs and in their language, traces can be found from all those peoples who here and there ruled over them... Macedonians today are characterized independently and stand in the middle among Bulgarians and Serbs"
iii) Felix Petancic, De itineribus in Turciam libellus, 1522:
"Skopje is located on the border where Dardania ends and Macedonia begins ... and the bridge at the Struma river constitute a border between Macedonians and the Tribalis or Bulgarians."
Posto onih 20 citata 'nije upalilo' nastavljam sa copy/paste citatima. Ovo je iz "Carnegie Endowment for International peace - REPORT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION - To Inquire into the causes and Conduct OF THE BALKAN WARS, PUBLISHED BY THE ENDOWMENT WASHINGTON, D.C. 1914"
URL:
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/index.html
Servian Macedonia (a)
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/chapter4_2a.html
Servian Macedonia (b)
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/carnegie/chapter4_2b.html
1) "In the words of the Socialist Servian paper, Radnitchke Novine, "If the liberation of these territories is a fact, why then is this exceptional regime established there? If the inhabitants are Servians why are they not made the equals of all the Servians; why is the constitutional rule not put in operation according to which 'all Servians are equal before the law'? If the object of the wars was unification, why is not this unification effectively recognized, and why are these exceptional ordinances created, such as can only be imposed upon conquered countries by conquerors? Moreover, our constitution does not admit of rules of this nature!"
As a matter of fact, if one did not know what Macedonia is, one might guess it from the publication of these ordinances. Clearly Macedonia was not "Old Servia" unified, since the population is treated as "rebels in a perpetual state of revolt." What the ordinances had in view were not isolated criminals,— they had accomplices and people who would hide them everywhere."
2) "It was to be expected that those territories in Macedonia which were, according to the treaty, to remain Servian, should receive the most serious attention. Uskub, Koumanovo, Tetovo, Gostivar, in a word the whole northeast corner of Macedonia, was to feel the first brunt of Serbization. At Koumanovo the priest Yanev, the Archbishop's vicar, was driven out on March 11/24, after a violent scene with one of those Servian chieftains who became officers, one Liouba Voulvits. He pulled the priest by the beard, beat him and finally said to him that "he would not kill him, because the Servians were a civilized nation, not savages like the Bulgarians." "I give you up to this evening to clear out of Servian territory, otherwise, dog, you shall be killed." The violence used by this same Voulvits in the villages whose population he was persuading to become Servian, not to read Bulgarian books, etc., may be passed over in silence. This same Voulvits employed the same tactics for the vicars of Kratovo and Palanka, and for the population of the villages. As a result, the towns of Koumanovo, Palanka, Kratovo, Gostivar and the surrounding villages, the nehie of St. Nicolas, and the villages of Uskub and Tetovo, were formally proclaimed Servian at the moment of the outbreak of the war. Schoolmasters and priests who were unwilling to submit fled and took refuge in Bulgaria. The only places left to resist were the towns of Uskub and Tetovo.
To terrorize the population of Tetovo was easy. Tetovo had been in a state of panic since May 23/June 5. The municipal authorities, followed by bands and a crowd of Turkish children, harangued the inhabitants, inviting them to become "volunteers" against the "worst enemy" of the Servian state. These processions took place daily for three days, but the end not being secured, they were followed by repression, domiciliary visitation and the persecution of suspected citizens. A certain Pano Grantcharov, or Gherov, tried to commit suicide to escape being entered as a Servian volunteer. Greater success was gained in the villages, after beating the inhabitants, as was done at Stentche, Volkovia, Jiltche, Raotintsi, Lechok. On May 29/June 11 the priest Anguelov, the Archbishop's vicar, was incarcerated and the prefect told him that all those calling themselves Bulgarians were regarded as rebels against the authority. They were evidently in a hurry to make an end of Bulgarism, and on June 6/19, all the presidents of communes and all village priests were summoned together in a Serbized monastery. The representatives of Servian temporal and ecclesiastical power were present, and after a long discourse in honor of the historic glories of Servia, it was proposed to the assembled priests and heads of communes, "that they should become Servian and send a telegram to King Peter." A single priest saved himself by flight and two village priests were absent."
3) "At Monastir (Bitolia), the chief place of the vilayet, and likewise coveted by the Servians "beyond" the frontier, the counting of the population was begun by the middle of December. Special commissions were sent into the villages with the object of persuading the population to declare itself Servian, by forcing the churches and the schools to become Servian. After that the disarmament of the population followed."
4) "In the course of the days June 17 to 19 (June 30 to July 2) more than 600 persons were arrested at Monastir. They were kept in strict confinement until July 13/26, when the Bulgarian defeat had become perfectly well known. Then the less turbulent among the peasants and artizans began to be set free, on condition of taking no part in national agitation."
5) The Servian commander of Resen (Resna) was equally dissatisfied with the state of feeling in that town, which was a republican center, and the birthplace of the Turkish Major Niazi-bey, who started the revolution in 1908 there. On December 9/22, 1912, he had called the notables of Resen before him to accuse them of being disloyal subjects, and of fomenting discord between rival nationalities.
Slede citati koji nisu iz 'Carnegie Endowment'-a.
i) National Geographic Magazine, 1917:
"'Neither Bulgar nor Serb' said one such old woman, defiantly, when we left the Monastir road at Dobraveni. 'I am Macedonian only and I am sick of war'."
ii) Petar Dragasevic, 1871:
- "Macedonians are the oldest Slavs on this Illyrian peninsula, and possibly in Europe."
- "Today, the Macedonians occupy almost the whole coast of the White Sea; in the east they mix with the Bulgarians from Thrace, to the west with the Albanians of Albania and Epirus, and in the north with Serbia in the borderlands of the Shar Mountains. Despite all of this, in their customs and in their language, traces can be found from all those peoples who here and there ruled over them... Macedonians today are characterized independently and stand in the middle among Bulgarians and Serbs"
iii) Felix Petancic, De itineribus in Turciam libellus, 1522:
"Skopje is located on the border where Dardania ends and Macedonia begins ... and the bridge at the Struma river constitute a border between Macedonians and the Tribalis or Bulgarians."
sumljiv_tip
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.651
Carlin15 posto pominjes Kumanovo, evo ja mogu da ti pomenem jednog mog prijatelja iz Kumanova, cija je porodica zadrzala prezime na -ic i koji je pre neku godinu kada je trazio posao u nekoj drzavnoj instituciji dobio ovakav odgovor, "dobar si ti i nije problem da te primimo, ali moras prvo da promenis prezime da se zavrsava na -ski".
sumljiv_tip
Domaćin
- Poruka
- 3.651
Cini mi se da je Antic govorio o 20 procenata srpske populacije ( rekao bih od ukupnog stanovnistva Makedonije ) za 1912. godinu, ovih 30 procenata izmedju dva rata nisam bas siguran da li je od njega, nekog drugog istoricara ili moja interpolacija.
Mislim da bi broj Srba u Makedoniji pre asimilacije i mogao da se izracuna, ovako statisticki kod pretezno srpskih krajeva, ili broj Bugara kod pretezno bugarskih, problem bi bila mesana mesta.
Meni je takodje zanimljivo kako se prosrpska stanovnistva nekako najpribliznije drzi krajava koje su se smatrale "Starom Srbijom" i da su uglavnom Bugari iz tih krajeva obrazovano stanovnistvo koje je proslo njihov skolski sistem, koji je na podrucju Makedonije vrlo silovito startovao sedamdesetih godina 19. veka.
Iskreno msm da je to sto je Makedonija dobila Nagoricino, Skopsku Crnu Goru ( bese 30 zaduzbina srpskih vladara je tamo ) i Kumanovo ( koje je originalu bilo na srpskoj strani granice, da bi ubrzo nakon toga volsebno pripalo Makedoniji ) i jos po nesto to blizu granice, cisto izivljavanje i likovanje komunisticki vlasti nad pobedjenim neki "prosrpskim" predratnim poretkom.
Svakako je Makedonija idealno mesto za proucavanje nastanka etnosa i nacija na Balkanu.
Ako je to istina, to je diskriminacija. Covek ima pravo na svoje ime i prezime i da trazi posao gde god hoce.
Ako ne gresim po poslednjem popisu u Kumanovu ima oko 5,000 Srba.
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Куманово
Cini mi se da je Antic govorio o 20 procenata srpske populacije ( rekao bih od ukupnog stanovnistva Makedonije ) za 1912. godinu, ovih 30 procenata izmedju dva rata nisam bas siguran da li je od njega, nekog drugog istoricara ili moja interpolacija.
Mislim da bi broj Srba u Makedoniji pre asimilacije i mogao da se izracuna, ovako statisticki kod pretezno srpskih krajeva, ili broj Bugara kod pretezno bugarskih, problem bi bila mesana mesta.
Meni je takodje zanimljivo kako se prosrpska stanovnistva nekako najpribliznije drzi krajava koje su se smatrale "Starom Srbijom" i da su uglavnom Bugari iz tih krajeva obrazovano stanovnistvo koje je proslo njihov skolski sistem, koji je na podrucju Makedonije vrlo silovito startovao sedamdesetih godina 19. veka.
Iskreno msm da je to sto je Makedonija dobila Nagoricino, Skopsku Crnu Goru ( bese 30 zaduzbina srpskih vladara je tamo ) i Kumanovo ( koje je originalu bilo na srpskoj strani granice, da bi ubrzo nakon toga volsebno pripalo Makedoniji ) i jos po nesto to blizu granice, cisto izivljavanje i likovanje komunisticki vlasti nad pobedjenim neki "prosrpskim" predratnim poretkom.
Svakako je Makedonija idealno mesto za proucavanje nastanka etnosa i nacija na Balkanu.
1) Macedonia and the Macedonians: A History, By Andrew Rossos
https://books.google.ca/books?id=Ne...onepage&q=serbian colonists macedonia&f=false
Pg. 138:
- Vardar Macedonia became a veritable armed camp. Anywhere between 35,000 and 50,000 armed men from the Yugoslav-Serbian army and state-sponsored armed bands were active in Macedonia. Over 70 percent of the Yugoslav military police force - 12,000 men out of 17,000 - was there as well.
- Belgrade had far-reaching plans for colonization: it hoped to settle 50,000 Serbian families and create Serbian oases and bridgeheads throughout the region. It encouraged Serbs to purchase huge tracts of the best land from the departing Turkish landowners and make it available to colonists.
2) The Macedonian Question: Britain and the Southern Balkans 1939-1949, By Dimitris Livanios
https://books.google.ca/books?id=uq... denationalization policies macedonia&f=false
Pg. 23:
- Serbian influence on the Macedonian Slavs had never been particularly strong. Thus a forceful policy of 'Serbianization' was launched, Serbian colonists were encouraged to settle in Macedonia, and an educational campaign was initiated.
Pg. 24:
- Apart from anti-Serbianism, the prevailing mood called for stability, not upheaval, for years of fighting and insecurity had clearly taken a heavy toll among the peasantry. In 1920, a Macedonian peasant had this to say to the Bulgarian minister in Belgrade, Kosta Todorov:
'for God's sake, don't liberate us any more. We have been liberated of everything we possessed. If anyone begins liberating us again, we shall be the first to take up arms against him.'
Q. in perpetuum hibernum
Stara legenda
- Poruka
- 87.974
Ne bih rekao.
Od ilindenskog ustanka postoji vmro, i on je uvek bio podeljen na dve struje sve do 2.sv.rata , jedna makedonska a druga probugarska , dok srpske struje u vmro nikad nije bilo.
Tako da možemo okačiti mačku o rep da bi se oni utopili u Srbe jer nikad nijedna jaka prosrpska organiziacija nije postojala u Makedoniji.
Možda je postojala u ovom makedonskom delu Stare Srbije ali im je Tito zatro sve tragove.
Vlasi u Srbiji nikad nisu imali određeni bar pokrajniski identitet koji bi mogao preći u neki nacionalni ,i zato su oni upali u srpski nacionalni korpus bez problema , dok u Makedoniji je uvek postojao taj pokrajinski indetitet koji je bio i obeležen jezičkom posebnošću u odnosu na Bugare a pogotovo na Srbe.
Nije Tito zatro sve tragove, nego su stradali u vreme Drugog svetskog rata i posle 1945. mnogi koji su izbegli nisu se (iz ovilh i onih razloga) vraćali u Makedoniju.
Ali zašto ne bih rekao. Pa Kosta je upravo o tome i govorio...u to vreme makedonsko nacionalno pitanje je bilo tek u začetku i zaista ni sami nisu znali šta su; neki su menjali ne narodnost u okvirima slovenske rase, već bi sutradan bili i Grci ili čak Vlasi ako zatreba.
Tuganadlanu
Primećen član
- Poruka
- 674
Slavene bio sam ironičan da je Tito zatro tragove.
Konstantin Veliki
Buduća legenda
- Poruka
- 28.302
Sta da kazem na argument da u VMRO nije bila prosrpska struja. Pa to je tako da se neko cudi da u IRA nema britanske struje, a onda zakljuci da u Severnoj Irskoj probritanskih ljudi.
Nemanjice kritikuje za Bogumile (za koje ne zna dal su uopste bogumile) i na osnovu danasnjih vrednosti.
ccaterpillar
Legenda
- Poruka
- 56.059
Господо, држава Србија је тајном конвенцијом са Бугарском из марта месеца 1912. признала право Бугарској на све територије источно од линије Охрид Крива Паланка.
Договор је био такав да у случају немогућности оснивања аутономне Македоније под заједничком српско-бугарском управом територија источно од те линије припадне Бугарској, а мали део западно од те линије је био дефинисан као спорна зона, око које би се преговарало, а руски цар је био одређен да врховни арбитар.
О чему онда ми овде причамо?
Све друго су дакле били незајажљиви српски апетити и мегаломанија коју смо после скупо платили.
Договор је био такав да у случају немогућности оснивања аутономне Македоније под заједничком српско-бугарском управом територија источно од те линије припадне Бугарској, а мали део западно од те линије је био дефинисан као спорна зона, око које би се преговарало, а руски цар је био одређен да врховни арбитар.
О чему онда ми овде причамо?
Све друго су дакле били незајажљиви српски апетити и мегаломанија коју смо после скупо платили.
Tuganadlanu
Primećen član
- Poruka
- 674
Izgleda da sam slučajno pogrešio(tek sad videh) , mislio sam na to da nije nikad bilo ikakve prosrpske organizaciju Makedoniji.