Историја грчког народа

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Требала би да постоји посебна тема о историји Грка, од античких времена Спарте и Атине, преко хеленизма Александра Македонског, и Ромејског царства до данас. Могуће да су Грци народ са најбогатијом историјом, тако да заслужују тему.

Ево хронологија Грка од 2540. године прије н.е. до 2016. године после Христа.

 
Требала би да постоји посебна тема о историји Грка, од античких времена Спарте и Атине, преко хеленизма Александра Македонског, и Ромејског царства до данас. Могуће да су Грци народ са најбогатијом историјом, тако да заслужују тему.

Ево хронологија Грка од 2540. године прије н.е. до 2016. године после Христа.


Aleksandar Makedonski nije bio Grk, nego Makedonac.

Grci imaju najbogatiju istoriju? Pa zasto onda kradu tudju?

Grcka kolevka demokratije? Pa zasto onda ne priznaju manjine?
 
Poslednja izmena:
>>>Ево хронологија Грка од 2540. године прије н.е. до 2016. године после Христа.<<<

Ако смем да се усудим, пар коментара и питања.

1. Како је одабрана ''2540. год. прије н.е.'' као почетак хронологије Грка?
2. Који је то догађај, или повод, да се одабере овај датум?
3. Како је могуће разговарати и дискотувати о Грцима, као народу, у овом раздобљу (2540. год п.н.е.) – кад тада није ни постојао термин (термини) Хелен, Грк, итд.


http://www.palaeolexicon.com/Greek

- From those two theories it is evident that we cannot identify the first Greek speakers nor date their first presence easily. It is like asking where were the English when Julius Caesar invaded Britain? There's no answer to that. To talk about the 'coming of the Greeks' means that we suppose the pre-existence of the Greek language outside Greece, a hypothesis for which there is no evidence. The motherland of the Greek language has always been, the area of the present state of Greece. Just like modern English was formed in England out of Anglo-Saxon heavily contaminated with Norman French and other foreign bodies. The traditional view of waves of Greek-speaking warriors marching down the Balkans to subjugate Greece is an old one.

- The Greeks also knew that some of their countrymen spoke other languages (e.g Eteo-Cretans - meaning true Cretans) or that people they lived with side by side were not originally Greek (e.g the Carians, Leleges).

- In 1963, Chadwick was the first to propose that the Greek language did not exist as we know it before the 20th century BC, but was formed by the mixture of an indigenous populations with invaders who spoke another PIE language. When these newcomers (mello-Greeks) reached Greece, they mixed with the previous inhabitants, whom they succeeded in subjugating, and borrowed from them many words for unfamiliar objects. The mispronunciation of the PIE words by those aboriginals led to permanent changes in the phonetics. Both the indigenous inhabitants and the newcomers started to form a group that in the future would become the Greeks. Future discoveries might throw some light into the Greek language prehistory. What is certain right now, is that the first Greek speakers had a multi-ethnic/lingual prehistory. In other words the fusion of cultures and languages of the Greek mainland and the Aegean starting from the neolithic period until the Trojan war has been the mother of the Hellenic tongue.


"Hellenization" and Southern Phoenicia: Reconsidering the Impact of Greece Before Alexander, by Susan Rebecca Martin
https://books.google.ca/books?id=m2...v=onepage&q=Hellenization Phoenicians&f=false

Page 30-31:

- Jonathan Hall states that self-awareness arose on the mainland from inter-Greek relationships and only as early as the sixth century.
- Greek self-awareness was most likely cemented in, or at least was developed by, its confrontation with the Persians. It was in the fifth century that the idea of Hellenism really began to take shape, around the same time that the Hellenization of Phoenicia allegedly began. Several recent studies have rightly taken this idea to task, questioning the extent to which Greeks considered themselves a national group and challenging the Greek/anti-Greek or "oppositional" approach so often associated with the idea that the Persian Wars were the major catalyst for the creation of Hellenic identity.
- In Greece, we can speak of various autonomous groups emerging from the Dark Ages that only sometimes (even rarely) recognized their commonality through culture, or Hellenism.

Page 34:

- Through the example of language, a process is suggested which "barbarians" could become increasingly at "being Greek". Hellenes and barbarians are not perceived as antithetical but as different points on the same continuum. They represent different (cultural) possibilities.

Page 38-40:

- According to Claudius Iolaus, the "Dorians" were considered Phoenicians. In the passage, "Phoenician" is not ethnically antithetical to (the unstated) "Hellene" but is still important to describing "Dorian" identity.
- In the case of the Phoenicians "Dorians" in Claudius Iolaus, I think it better to understand "Phoenician" and "Hellene" as cultural groups encompassing various identities and ethnicities (etc.), some of which were shared.
- Instead of seeing neat categories of Greek/non-Greek, or imagining "barbaroi" becoming Hellenes by moving through a checklist of Greek traits, we see that there were multiple degrees of interaction with a variety of outcomes in different periods and regions. One could speak Greek, or be tied ethnically to some Greeks, while still maintaining an Amphilochian, Karian or Phoenician identity.
- Greek material culture appears in Phoenicia and exists way before Alexander's conquest.


From Jonathan Hall.

The terms 'Hellas' & 'Hellenes':

- 'Hellas' originally denoted a small area south of Thessaly.
- By the end of the seventh century (600's BC), it was employed to describe the whole of mainland Greece.
- By the mid-sixth century (550's BC), it designated the whole of the Greek world.
- The gradual expansion in the geographical scope of the term 'Hellas' tracks almost exactly the increasing membership of the (Religious) Pylaian-Delphic Amphiktyony throughout the Archaic period, suggesting that it was simply a geographical expression employed to describe the aggregation of states that administered the sanctuary of Delphi.

Excerpt from "Hellenicity: Between Ethnicity and Culture", By Jonathan M. Hall.

Pages 113-116:

Communication would certainly have been facilitated by bilingualism, a natural consequence of intermarriage between alloglots: thus, Herodotus (6.138.2) recounts how the Athenian women kidnapped by the Pelasgians of Lemnos taught their children the Attic tongue (glossa Attike). But the earliest attested instance of bilingualism in Greek literature is found in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite (113-16), where Aphrodite disguises herself as a Phrygian woman who addresses the Trojan Ankhises in his own language. Indeed it is more commonly non-Greeks who are credited with a multilingual proficiency: for example, the mid-seventh-century Egyptian Pharaoh Psammetikhos is said to have entrusted Egyptian children to his Greek mercenaries in order to learn the Greek language; at a vast banquet held in 479 B.C. to which the Thebans invited Persian dignitaries, Thersandros of Orkhomenos was addressed in Greek by his Persian dining partner; and the Karians and the populations of the Khalkidike were apparently competent in the Greek language. There are, however, also instances of Greeks who possess varying levels of bilingual competence. The characterization of a Lydian woman by the late sixth-century poet Hipponax betrays some knoweledge of Lydian and even Phrygian vocabulary; Histiaios, the tyrant of Miletos, is said to have been able to speak Persian and a similar competence in Persian is attributed to Themistokles and to Alkibiades, while Pythagoras is supposed to have learnt Egyptian.

Iamblikhos' notice (Life of Pythagoras 34.241) that Pythagoras ordered all Greek Pythagoreans to speak Greek is interesting in that it suggests that many of the Greeks of South Italy may have employed indigenous idioms. Bilingualism would also have facilitated (though it is not necessarily required by) the transmission of the Greek alphabet, adopted by Phrygians, Etruscans and Lydians in the 8th century, the Karians in the 7th century and the Lykians, Sikeloi and Elymoi in the 6th century.

PS: An early conception of a singular Hellenic language is illusory in documentation. In fact, it is not until the 5th century that we find a concrete expression on this concept in the phrase he Hellas glossa ('the Greek tongue'). This is also the period when the verb hellenizein first appears.

The fact is that what we term the Greek language was in reality a collection of myriad regional dialects. It is often assumed that these were mutually intelligible and that therefore the greater ease with which Greeks could have understood one another as opposed to speakers of other languages would have engendered a growing consciousness of a shared Greek language. Yet quite apart from the already noted lack of terminology to express such a consciousness prior to the 5th century, there are many documented instances within ethnolinguistic research which demonstrate clearly that dialect speakers are often able to comprehend dialects of another language group better than some dialects within their own language group.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Видим да си промакедонски и антигрчки настројен, па можеш слободно да одеш да се свађаш на теми о грчком поријеклу Александра Великог која постоји на форуму. То што подебљаним и увећаним фонтом напишеш да је био Македонац, неће много тога промјенити, он ће и даље остати Грк. Свако ко је иоле објективан, схвата да је он био Грк, и то је историјска чињеница. А том твојом логиком, ни Карађорђе није Србин ни цар Душан итд..


Карлин, није постојао термин тада, тј. нису тада имали свијест о томе, али је то ипак историја тог народа. Свакако се ништа није десило те 2540. јер се о том периоду може само оквирно говорити. Чак и за догађаје који су се десили много касније.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Видим да си промакедонски и антигрчки настројен, па можеш слободно да одеш да се свађаш на теми о грчком поријеклу Александра Великог која постоји на форуму. То што подебљаним и увећаним фонтом напишеш да је био Македонац, неће много тога промјенити, он ће и даље остати Грк. Свако ко је иоле објективан, схвата да је он био Грк, и то је историјска чињеница. А том твојом логиком, ни Карађорђе није Србин ни цар Душан итд..


Карлин, није постојао термин тада, тј. нису тада имали свијест о томе, али је то ипак историја тог народа. Свакако се ништа није десило те 2540. јер се о том периоду може само оквирно говорити. Чак и за догађаје који су се десили много касније.

Не само касније, него и раније. Зар није и рано-хеладски период (EH I) такође историја тог 'народа'? Зашто бе се 'Грци' добровољно одрекли периода EH I?

Зашто да се зауставимо на 2540. год. п.н.е.?

Early Helladic I 3200/3100–2650 BC
Early Helladic II 2650–2200/2150 BC
Early Helladic III 2200/2150–2050/2000 BC
Middle Helladic 2000/1900–1550 BC
Late Helladic I 1650–1500 BC
Late Helladic II 1500–1400 BC
Late Helladic III 1400–1050 BC

The Early Helladic I (EH I) (3200-3100-2650 BC) succeeds the Final Neolithic (4500-3200 BC) and presents a close cultural relation with it. This is apparent in the settlement of Neolithic sites during this period as well (e.g. Eutresis), in agriculture and in the still limited use of metals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helladic_period
http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/02/mainland/en/eh/intro/eb1/index.html
 
Ево хронологија Грка од 2540. године прије н.е. до 2016. године после Христа.
Шта тачно означава грчки-хеленски народ? И које су разлике између тих Хелена, пре 3000 година, 2000 година, 1000 година и данас?
Видео отприлике показује где је све стицајем околности грчки језик био официјалан. Ако мислиш да је то иста ствар са историје народа, онда су Американци, Индијци и Нигеријци данас Енглези.
Или рецимо историја Византије као историја само или претежно Грка је прилично смешна ствар. Огромна већина византиских династија нису грчког порекла (по ниједној дефиницији) да не говорим о другим детаљима.
Постоји овде теме где се детаљно обрађује историја Грчке почетком 19 века и која је тада била компликовано ентно-лингвистичка ситуација, али видим џабе, ко има времена да чита, једно те исто се меље..Све је то једна права линији 5 хиљада година...
 
okej, zašto bi se Srbi onda odrekli istorije Vinče, Tračana i ostalih?

Само напред.

Page 224 -- Rethinking the Other in Antiquity, Erich S. Gruen.

Foundation Tales as Cultural Thievery.

- Celebrated characters from legend could serve as founders of foreign nations. Or, more inventively, fictive tales ascribed names derived from extant peoples to fabricated figures who became those peoples' progenitors. The Hellenic penchant for peering through parochial spectacles is well known. Alien nations became transformed and familiar when fitted into Greek traditions.

That held true even for the supposed archenemy, Persia. According to Herodotus, the Hellenic hero Perseus wed his rescued damsel Andromeda whose son by him was named Perses. And from him the Persians took their own name. So Herodotus (or rather his sources). The story is a noteworthy one. The most inveterate foe of Hellas thus came within the Hellenic embrace. Greeks slipped one of their most celebrated legendary figures into a fictitious narrative of Persian history, thus to account for the very name of the people.

That fable, in its many manifestations, may be the most dramatic instance of identity theft. But far from the only one. Another tradition took this maneuver a step further. The ruling house of Persia carried the designation of Achaemenids. That played nicely into the hands of Greek fashioners of legend. They concocted an Achaemenes as founder of the dynasty, made him a son of Perseus, and explained his name as derived from his grandfather, who came from Achaea in the Peloponnese. So even prime villains of the Greek master narrative, the Achaemenid clan and the Persian empire, turn out to be Greek in origin. That is appropriation indeed. If Persians could be hellenized, anyone was fair game.

- The Greeks had no monopoly on this sort of "identity theft." Egyptians employed the same form of imaginary lineage that attached foreign cultures to themselves. Egyptian mythology that made its way to Diodorus of Sicily included a tale of the wanderings of Osiris, most venerable and sacred of the nation's deities. The story has Osiris venture across the Hellespont to Thrace and beyond. In the course of his travels he left behind a son named Macedon as ruler of a land that was henceforth to be known as Macedonia. And, for good measure, he behind another son, now aged, who would oversee the cultivation of plants in Thrace and found a city there, duly to be designed as Maroneia. Macedonians may have installed an alien dynasty on the Egyptians' land -- But, on this concoction, Macedonia itself owed its origin to an Egyptian dynasty.
 
Poslednja izmena:
Не само касније, него и раније. Зар није и рано-хеладски период (EH I) такође историја тог 'народа'? Зашто бе се 'Грци' добровољно одрекли периода EH I?

Зашто да се зауставимо на 2540. год. п.н.е.?

Early Helladic I 3200/3100–2650 BC
Early Helladic II 2650–2200/2150 BC
Early Helladic III 2200/2150–2050/2000 BC
Middle Helladic 2000/1900–1550 BC
Late Helladic I 1650–1500 BC
Late Helladic II 1500–1400 BC
Late Helladic III 1400–1050 BC

The Early Helladic I (EH I) (3200-3100-2650 BC) succeeds the Final Neolithic (4500-3200 BC) and presents a close cultural relation with it. This is apparent in the settlement of Neolithic sites during this period as well (e.g. Eutresis), in agriculture and in the still limited use of metals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helladic_period
http://www.fhw.gr/chronos/02/mainland/en/eh/intro/eb1/index.html

Па јесте, нисам ја правио тај видео.
 
Шта тачно означава грчки-хеленски народ? И које су разлике између тих Хелена, пре 3000 година, 2000 година, 1000 година и данас?
Видео отприлике показује где је све стицајем околности грчки језик био официјалан. Ако мислиш да је то иста ствар са историје народа, онда су Американци, Индијци и Нигеријци данас Енглези.
Или рецимо историја Византије као историја само или претежно Грка је прилично смешна ствар. Огромна већина византиских династија нису грчког порекла (по ниједној дефиницији) да не говорим о другим детаљима.
Постоји овде теме где се детаљно обрађује историја Грчке почетком 19 века и која је тада била компликовано ентно-лингвистичка ситуација, али видим џабе, ко има времена да чита, једно те исто се меље..Све је то једна права линији 5 хиљада година...

Хм, значи Југославија није дио историје Срба? Или НДХ, или Османско царство? А ово су екстремни примјер, тј. окупатори Срба.
Јесте то компликовано, и није права линија, али по твојој логици Грци нису постојали до 19. вијека.
Наравно да постоји велика разлика између данашњих и тадашњих Хелена, као и сваког народа, али то не значи нису исти народ.
и ако то није њихова историја, ајде ми онда реци шта је историја Грка (тј. Хелена како се и данас називају)?
 
Хм, значи Југославија није дио историје Срба? Или НДХ, или Османско царство? А ово су екстремни примјер, тј. окупатори Срба.
Јесте то компликовано, и није права линија, али по твојој логици Грци нису постојали до 19. вијека.
Наравно да постоји велика разлика између данашњих и тадашњих Хелена, као и сваког народа, али то не значи нису исти народ.
и ако то није њихова историја, ајде ми онда реци шта је историја Грка (тј. Хелена како се и данас називају)?

Велика претпоставка... Да ли смо сигурни шта је (су) термин (термини) Хелен или Хелени све означавали кроз векове и историју? Да ли знамо којим су језицима и дијалектима "Хелени" говорили кроз историју?


"The Greeks of classical times were of mixed descent, spoke different dialects of a hybrid language, combined Olympian with chthonic cults and rituals ... and their traditions intermixed indigenous stocks, which were not Greek, with immigrant culture-heroes, pervasive Hellenes, migratory Dorians and Aeolians transposed and superposed on other kinds of Greeks."
(1930: 531) -- John Myres, quoted in "Hellenicity".


"The Historian's History of the World", by Ulrich von Willamowitz-Moellendorff:
"[t]he umpires at the Olympian games are the first to apply the name of Hellenes to the nation - more exactly speaking, to the class. For here it has come to pass that, though politically divided into numberless cantons, though involved in perpetual feuds and irreconcilable local animosities, the members of this class recognise one another, intermarry, call a truce for the festivals, and find a common interest in maintaining their class supremacy against the encroachments of the lower orders [sic]." (1989: 67). See also Schaefer 1963: 283.

The suggestion is arresting: the Olympic Games were originally restricted to a transregional community of aristocrats.



Jonathan Hall's quote, page 227 of his book "Hellenicity" - Epilogue:

The geography and history of the Greek peninsula long conspired to militate against the emergence of an overarching, transregional Hellenic consciousness. There is not the slightest evidence that Greeks of the Late Bronze Age recognized themselves as a singular ethnic entity nor - despite claims to the contrary - is there any compelling support for the notion that confrontation with indigenous 'others' on the periphery of the Greek world triggered a sense of Hellenic 'sameness' in the 8th century BC.

The testimony suggests instead that Hellenic identity arose in the elite environment of the Olympic Games during the course of the 6th century and that it served both to cement alliances between ruling families of various regions and to promote the hegemonic claims of the Thessalians over their neighbous in central Greece.
 
Даље, да видимо шта поједини данашњи Грци мисле о појму и термину Хелен-Хелени.

http://www.oodegr.co/english/biblia/romiosyni/kef1.htm#_Toc158748530

- All of the historical sources that we have available lead us to the realization that the name “Ellin” (Hellene, pronounced “eh-leen”) had already lost its national-racial innuendo during the first post-Christian centuries. In the vast melting pot of the multi-racial Roman Empire, all of the peoples therein had gradually acquired a “Roman conscience”. This is not a suitable place for examining how this occurred; the important thing is that it occurred.

- The term “Ellin” (Hellene) had by then acquired a purely religious significance and was thus linked to the notion of “idolater”. It appears that this about-face had already begun to take place during the first post-Christian century, long before Christianity was made the official religion of the State. In the Gospel of Mark we read about a certain woman who had approached Christ when he was in Tyre, whom the Evangelist says was a “Hellenis, of Syrian-Phoenician nationality” (“ην δε η γυνη ελληνις συραφοινικισσα τω γενει” ) (Mark 7: 26). As correctly observed by P. Christou, if the woman was of Syrian-Phoenician nationality, then the term “Hellenis” (=fem. Hellene, pronounced hell-ee-niece) must have denoted her religion. A few years after 300 A.D., Athanasios the Great, a Hellenic-speaking Father and Patriarch of Alexandria - a par excellence Hellenistic city – had written a homily titled “Against Hellenes”. If this word had continued to imply the Hellenic nation, then it would have been entirely absurd: that grand Hellenistic center was turning against- who? We notice the same thing in the homilies of Saint John the Chrysostom, offspring of another grand Hellenistic city: Antioch. The word “Hellenes” definitely denoted the impious, the idolaters.
 
1) «In the last year of the 15th century, and the opening years of the 16th, when the Morea was again the battlefield of the Turks and Venetians, the occupants of the plain of Argos and portions of Attica were practically exterminated, and Albanian colonists began to reoccupy the lands
(«The Customs and Lore of Modern Greece», by Rennell Rodd, 1892, page 17.)

2) «The Vlachs, on the contrary, descendents of the Romanized people of the Balkan peninsula, live in considerable numbers in the mountains of northern and central Greece.»
(«The Scottish Geographical Magazine», volume XIII, 1897, page 370.)

3) «The Albanians of Hydra and Spetsae, many of whom could not even speak Greek, regarded themselves as Greek because their allegiance was with the Orthodox Church.»
(«That Greece Might Still be Free», by William St. Clair, page 9.)

4) «Greek statesman said Albanian was not a language – it had no literature, not even an alphabet – it is a mere patois, and would die out in a generation, and the children of the Albanian soldiers and sailors would all be good Greeks.»
(«The Catholic Presbyterian an International Journal Ecclesiastical and Religious», vol. II, July – December 1879, edited by Professor W. G. Blaikie D.D., L.L.D., F.R.S.E., page 319).

5) «Yet so much of the Sclavonian element had been infused into the latter that the modern Greeks are found to differ widely from their remote ancestors.»
(«Foreign Quarterly Review», Vol. XXVI, 1841, page 73)

6) «…since the Greeks are a composite people among whom the descendents of the veritable Greek of old are in a great minority. The majority are of Albanian and Suliote blood, races which even the Romans found untamable.»
(«In Greek Waters: a Story of the Grecian War of Independence (1821-1827)», By G.A. Henty, 1893, page 40)

7) «Old Corinth passed through its various stages, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Turkish. After the War of Independence it was again Greek, and, being a considerable town, was suggested as the capital of the new Kingdom of Greece. The earthquake of 1858 leveled it to the ground with the exception of about a dozen houses. A mere handful of the old inhabitants remained on the site. But fertile fields and running water made it attractive; and outsiders gradually came in. At present, it is an untidy poverty-stricken village of about 1,000 inhabitants, mostly of Albanian Blood
(«The Encyclopedia Britannica» Eleventh edition, Vol. VII, 1910, page 148)

8) «The notion of a ´Greek´ identity in the modern sense is itself in large part the creation of the movement towards statehood. It was not until the nineteenth century that the term came to describe a homogenous ethnic group in the modern sense. Instead, the people of the Peloponnesos, including Argolida, made up an intricate mosaic of ethnicities and languages
(«Blood and Oranges Immigrant Labour and European Markets in Rural Greece», by Christopher M. Lawrence, page 12)

9) «In reality however, just before the Greek war of independence, most Greeks still referred to themselves as Romans. Vlachavas, the priest rebel leader who rose against the Ottomans, declared, ´A Romneos I was born a Romneos I will die.»
(«Bloodlines from the Ethnic Pride to Ethnic Terrorism», by Vamik Volkan, page 121.)

10) «It should be stressed, however, that the Greeks as an ethnic community during this period [1840´s] included many Grecophone or Hellenized Vlachs, Serbs or Orthodox Albanians
(«Greece and the Balkans Identities, Perceptions and Cultural Encounters since the Enlightenment», edited by Dimitris Tziovas, page 6.)

11) «…so, in the Middle Ages, these Albanian mountaineers have brought both war like spirit, bright costume, and beauty of person, to refresh the Hellenic race. There are still, even in Attica, districts where Albanian is the common language; there are Albanian names famous in Greek annals, especially in the great war of independence (1821-1831) and even among the sailors of Hydra, so famed for their commercial enterprise and their deeds of war, the chief families were Albanian in origin
(«Greek Pictures drawn with pen and pencil» by J. P. Mahaffy, M.A. D.D., 1890, pages 20 and 21.)

12) «In 1358 the Albanians overran Epirus, Acarnania and Anatolia and established two principalities under their leaders…Naupactas fell into their control in 1378…
Other Albanians and Vlachs invaded the Catalan principality of Boeotia and Attica, and a great many Albanians settled there as peasant-farmers in 1368 and later….
The penetration of the Greek mainland which we have described occurred during the hundred or more years after 1325.»
(«Migrations and Invasions in Greece and Adjacent Areas», by Nicholas G. L. Hammond, page 59.)

13) «There is the case of Karamanlides, a predominantly Turkish-speaking Christian Orthodox people, who were forced to go to Greece although they did not necessarily identify ´ethnically´ with the Greeks. At the time of the exchange they numbered as many as 400,000.»
(«Mediating the Nation News, Audiences and the Politics of Identity», Mirca Madianou, page 31.)

14)

A) We noted in the previous chapter that, with the help of a troop of Albanians, he subjected his rebel leaders, that his personal bodyguards consisted of Albanians and that the rule of fortresses from Monemvasia to Mistra was also conferred upon warrior of this nation.
B) The Albanians were on the lookout for land, war and booty. Anyone who is sufficiently informed about the Morea, the diversity of its population, its customs and habits, its language and houses, will know that the inhabitants of the onetime states of Corinth, Argos, Epidaurus, Hermione, Sicyon and all of the mountain region of Phlius right to Patras are still primarily inhabited by Albanians, who, in some few regions have exchanged their mother tongue for modern Greek and in the repeatedly ravaged cities of Corinth and Argos have mixed with the Greek-speaking inhabitants.
C) Phrantzes asserts: “Half of Peloponnese land was actually occupied by the Albanians at that time and they attempted to get the other half, too, both by force of arms and by negotiation with Sultan Mehmed II.”
D) Unfortunately for the friends of ancient Greek cause, gentle folk they may be, though not particularly astute, the inhabitants of the Academy of Plato and of all of Attica, of Boeotia, Megara, Corinth, Argolis, Hydra, Spetzia, Phlius and the interior of the Morea, have preserved the customs, language and clothing of their native land to the present day.

15) The London Quarterly Review, published in April 1895 and July 1895: "The Wallachians (Vlachs) ... are numerous in the Peloponnesus."

16) David George Hogarth (page 153, "The Nearer East"):

"Boeotia, with Euboea, is largely in the hands of Toskh Albanians; Thessaly in those of Vlachs and Anatolians, introduced from Konia about the tenth century; and Macedonia, north of Vistritza, in those of a blend of Slav with Bulgar mixed further with Vlach and Anatolian elements."
 
>>>Ево хронологија Грка од 2540. године прије н.е. до 2016. године после Христа.<<<

Ако смем да се усудим, пар коментара и питања.

1. Како је одабрана ''2540. год. прије н.е.'' као почетак хронологије Грка?
2. Који је то догађај, или повод, да се одабере овај датум?
3. Како је могуће разговарати и дискотувати о Грцима, као народу, у овом раздобљу (2540. год п.н.е.) – кад тада није ни постојао термин (термини) Хелен, Грк, итд.
2540 пре наше ере је важна година јер се тада изградила Велика Пирамида краља Куфуа (Кеопса) у Египту. Тада је Египатско краљевство већ било старо хиљаду година. Година 2540 пре наше ере нема везе са Грцима, сем да је цело Средоземље већ хиљадама година било под културалном утицају Египћана (и других) хиљадама година пре него што су се Грци појавили на сцени.
 
1) «In the last year of the 15th century, and the opening years of the 16th, when the Morea was again the battlefield of the Turks and Venetians, the occupants of the plain of Argos and portions of Attica were practically exterminated, and Albanian colonists began to reoccupy the lands
(«The Customs and Lore of Modern Greece», by Rennell Rodd, 1892, page 17.)

Далеко више их је дошло 14 поготово почетком 15 века. Централна и јужна Грчка је била тотално опустошена константним ратовима између разних локалних латинских држава, Византије, Србије, Венеције итд. У том насталом вакуму Албанци се насељавају. Успут, горе наведени Сулити су такођер албанофони.

Још нешто, пошто се говори о порекло модерних Грка, ретко се прича о удео разно разних Латина које су господарили добрим део Грчке као последица 4 крсташког рата. Ту је било свега и свачега, углавно из територија данашње Француске, Шпаније и Италија, и пошто су се често мењали ниједна група није постала доминантна. И дан данас као остатак тог времена, у у Грчкој има неких 50,000 католика староседеоца, постоје села која су чисто католичка. Рубио Лух сматра су Латини сачињавали једну трећину становништва градова централне Грчке. Додуше, већина становништва је било рурално, а вероватно их је било много мање по селама. Генерално урбане мањиње се далеко лакше и брже абсорбује у већинско становништво док код изолованих руралних и планинским крајевима то траје све до 20 века.
 
Makedonac je geografski poim.

Ne budi glup, znam da Srbi, Grci i Vi to zelite i da potpuno izbrisete ime Makedonija ili ga prisvojite, ali vam to ne uspeva.

U okolini Soluna ali i duz cele Egejske Makedonije Grci su vrsili nasilnu promenu makedonskih imena gradova i sela. Imas i mapu gore sa makedonskim toponimima.

- - - - - - - - - -

Cak da je Aleksandar nije bio Grk to ga ne pravi Slovenom ko sto su danasnji Makedonci.

Ali nema sta da ga pravi, on jeste predak danasnjih Makedonaca.
 

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