Македонија да дода "Вардарска" у своје име
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  1. #1
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    Arrow Македонија да дода "Вардарска" у своје име

    Macedonia to add 'Vardar' to its name

    Published: 16 June 2010

    According to reports, Macedonia is close to finding a formula to defuse its long-standing name dispute with Greece, which has prevented the former Yugoslav republic from starting EU accession talks and has kept it outside the NATO alliance.

    The name 'Republic of Macedonia of Vardar' could be the miracle solution to solve the long-running dispute, reported the Greek press. This name fulfils the requirement of Athens that Macedonia, which borders a Greek region with the same name, should adopt a name with a geographic connotation (see 'Background').

    Vardar may sound bizarre to someone unfamiliar with the region. But in fact, Macedonia is a wide geographic region stretching across three countries that for decades was called Pirin Macedonia in Bulgaria, Aegean Macedonia in Greece and Vardar Macedonia for the territory corresponding to the former Yugoslav republic.

    Vardar is the name of the longest river in the current Republic of Macedonia. Its basin covers two-thirds of the country. It is also the name of a football team and a popular song, 'Oj, Vardare'.

    However, it remains to be seen whether Skopje will agree to use its new name erga omnes – meaning in the country's "relations with everyone". So far, Skopje has insisted that the name Macedonia could be kept "for internal use" and that countries which have recognised Macedonia with its constitutional name would continue to use it.

    It also remains unclear whether Macedonian citizens could continue to be referred to as 'Macedonians' or 'Macedonians of Vardar' instead. A 'dual use' would help Skopje avoid having to amend its constitution and change all its national documents, including passports. Greece does not recognise Macedonian passports and until recently issued visas to their nationals on a separate sheet of paper.

    Western pressure has already forced Macedonia to make changes to its constitution once before, after an ethnic conflict in 2001 and the signing of the so-called 'Ohrid' framework agreement. Even before that, in the mid-1990s, Macedonia was forced to remove the Vergina sun from its flag and delete alleged irredentist clauses from its constitution.

    An eventual change to the constitution is likely to be decided by a referendum. Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski is opposed to such changes and is likely to spearhead a campaign to reject them.

    Choice 'between two evils'

    "Gruevski chooses between two evils," reads the headline of Skopje daily Nova Makedonia's leading article. According to diplomatic sources, Skopje was facing a choice between the Republic of Macedonia of Vardar (Republika Vardarska Makedonija) and the Republic of Macedonia (Vardar). Both possibilities were described as difficult to swallow by Macedonian diplomats, who nevertheless expressed a slight preference for the latter.

    Western diplomatic sources told the Greek daily Kathimerini that there has been discernible progress in the negotiations since Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou decided to hold face-to-face discussions with his Skopje counterpart Nikola Gruevski – rather than let the talks continue at a lower diplomatic level.

    Gruevski and Papandreou have been holding discrete meetings since last November to seek a way out of the impasse (EurActiv 25/11/09 http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/macedonia-greece-meet-name-dispute/article-187644 ).

    United Nations special mediator Matthew Nimetz, a US diplomat, has not had one-on-one talks with either side since February but his office insists that he is still committed to finding a solution, Kathimerini writes further.

    Ambassador Nimetz is in frequent contact with both parties, but he will not be responding to specific questions on substantive discussions, UN Deputy Spokesman Ari Gaitanis said in a written statement last week.


    BACKGROUND

    Of all the hurdles standing in the way of Macedonia's EU accession, the so-called 'name dispute' with Greece appears to be the biggest (seeEurActiv LinksDossieron 'EU-Macedonia relations' http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/eu-macedonia-relations-linksdossier-329923 ).

    Seen from Athens, the official name used by Skopje – the Republic of Macedonia – is an open challenge to the Greek region of Macedonia. In reprisal, Greece vowed to veto Macedonia's participation in international organisations, including the EU, until the issue is resolved.

    Although Macedonia is recognised as the country's constitutional name by all EU countries except Greece, the name dispute has led to an impasse for the country's membership of both the EU and NATO.

    According to recent information from diplomatic sources, a name with a geographic connotation– defining Macedonia more as a region than a country– would be acceptable to Greece (EurActiv 07/04/10 http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/macedonia-under-pressure-solve-name-dispute-news-421199 ).

    Greece insists that the new geographic name should be used in Skopje's "relations with everyone," rejecting Skopje’s position that a name "for internal use" could be kept.


    MORE ON THIS TOPIC

    LinksDossier:EU-Macedonia relations http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-macedonia-relations-linksdossier-329923
    News:Macedonia under pressure to solve 'name dispute' http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/macedonia-under-pressure-solve-name-dispute-news-421199


    Извор: http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/macedonia-add-vardar-its-name-news-495266



  2. #2
    Primećen član Morpheus (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Znaci na kraju ce od antickih samo vardarska da ostane


  3. #3
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    It would be best for them ,that they stay with Serbia in federation

  4. #4
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Govorio sam ex yu Makedoncima da ce se ovo desiti.

    Imali su sansi i vremena da prihvate naziv North Macedonia ali su odugovlacili i opstruisali, i evo sada je predlog da se umesto North upotrebi Vardar.

    U sitacijama da slaba strana odbije jednu opciju koja joj se nudi, sledeca opcija po nju moze samo biti ista ili gora.

    Ali Grujevski je umislio da ce voditi ex yu Makedoniju do Pakistana stopama Aleksandra Velikog koji etnicki sa danasnjim ex yu Makedoncima nema nikakve veze.

    Ovo je jasno da ce Nemacka i strukture po njenom kontrolom unutar EU uciniti sve da Grcka uspe, mnogo je Nemacka ulozila novca i kredibiliteta, i sada Grci su u neuporedivo boljoj poziciji nego pre paketa pomoci, sada svaku njihovu zelju ce Nemacka i njeni saveznici nastojati da ispune i eto verovatnog epiloga, umesto da se pripadnici vecinskog naroda ex yu Makedonije zovu Severomakedonci zvace se Vardaromakedonci, a u obicnom govoru skraceno.
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la migel59 : 16.06.2010. u 19:40

  5. #5
    Nov član Andjela (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Crni Bugarin Pogledaj poruku
    Macedonia to add 'Vardar' to its name

    Published: 16 June 2010

    According to reports, Macedonia is close to finding a formula to defuse its long-standing name dispute with Greece, which has prevented the former Yugoslav republic from starting EU accession talks and has kept it outside the NATO alliance.

    The name 'Republic of Macedonia of Vardar' could be the miracle solution to solve the long-running dispute, reported the Greek press. This name fulfils the requirement of Athens that Macedonia, which borders a Greek region with the same name, should adopt a name with a geographic connotation (see 'Background').

    Vardar may sound bizarre to someone unfamiliar with the region. But in fact, Macedonia is a wide geographic region stretching across three countries that for decades was called Pirin Macedonia in Bulgaria, Aegean Macedonia in Greece and Vardar Macedonia for the territory corresponding to the former Yugoslav republic.

    Vardar is the name of the longest river in the current Republic of Macedonia. Its basin covers two-thirds of the country. It is also the name of a football team and a popular song, 'Oj, Vardare'.

    However, it remains to be seen whether Skopje will agree to use its new name erga omnes – meaning in the country's "relations with everyone". So far, Skopje has insisted that the name Macedonia could be kept "for internal use" and that countries which have recognised Macedonia with its constitutional name would continue to use it.

    It also remains unclear whether Macedonian citizens could continue to be referred to as 'Macedonians' or 'Macedonians of Vardar' instead. A 'dual use' would help Skopje avoid having to amend its constitution and change all its national documents, including passports. Greece does not recognise Macedonian passports and until recently issued visas to their nationals on a separate sheet of paper.

    Western pressure has already forced Macedonia to make changes to its constitution once before, after an ethnic conflict in 2001 and the signing of the so-called 'Ohrid' framework agreement. Even before that, in the mid-1990s, Macedonia was forced to remove the Vergina sun from its flag and delete alleged irredentist clauses from its constitution.

    An eventual change to the constitution is likely to be decided by a referendum. Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski is opposed to such changes and is likely to spearhead a campaign to reject them.

    Choice 'between two evils'

    "Gruevski chooses between two evils," reads the headline of Skopje daily Nova Makedonia's leading article. According to diplomatic sources, Skopje was facing a choice between the Republic of Macedonia of Vardar (Republika Vardarska Makedonija) and the Republic of Macedonia (Vardar). Both possibilities were described as difficult to swallow by Macedonian diplomats, who nevertheless expressed a slight preference for the latter.

    Western diplomatic sources told the Greek daily Kathimerini that there has been discernible progress in the negotiations since Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou decided to hold face-to-face discussions with his Skopje counterpart Nikola Gruevski – rather than let the talks continue at a lower diplomatic level.

    Gruevski and Papandreou have been holding discrete meetings since last November to seek a way out of the impasse (EurActiv 25/11/09 http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/macedonia-greece-meet-name-dispute/article-187644 ).

    United Nations special mediator Matthew Nimetz, a US diplomat, has not had one-on-one talks with either side since February but his office insists that he is still committed to finding a solution, Kathimerini writes further.

    Ambassador Nimetz is in frequent contact with both parties, but he will not be responding to specific questions on substantive discussions, UN Deputy Spokesman Ari Gaitanis said in a written statement last week.


    BACKGROUND

    Of all the hurdles standing in the way of Macedonia's EU accession, the so-called 'name dispute' with Greece appears to be the biggest (seeEurActiv LinksDossieron 'EU-Macedonia relations' http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/eu-macedonia-relations-linksdossier-329923 ).

    Seen from Athens, the official name used by Skopje – the Republic of Macedonia – is an open challenge to the Greek region of Macedonia. In reprisal, Greece vowed to veto Macedonia's participation in international organisations, including the EU, until the issue is resolved.

    Although Macedonia is recognised as the country's constitutional name by all EU countries except Greece, the name dispute has led to an impasse for the country's membership of both the EU and NATO.

    According to recent information from diplomatic sources, a name with a geographic connotation– defining Macedonia more as a region than a country– would be acceptable to Greece (EurActiv 07/04/10 http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/macedonia-under-pressure-solve-name-dispute-news-421199 ).

    Greece insists that the new geographic name should be used in Skopje's "relations with everyone," rejecting Skopje’s position that a name "for internal use" could be kept.


    MORE ON THIS TOPIC

    LinksDossier:EU-Macedonia relations http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-macedonia-relations-linksdossier-329923
    News:Macedonia under pressure to solve 'name dispute' http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/macedonia-under-pressure-solve-name-dispute-news-421199


    Извор: http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/macedonia-add-vardar-its-name-news-495266
    Iz prostog i logicnog razloga, sto je Vardarska Makedonija bila u sklopu Srbije!
    Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

  6. #6
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Nece se zvati nikako, bice podeljena kao i BiH i CG,

  7. #7
    Buduća legenda Torrente Bgd (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio Morpheus Pogledaj poruku
    Znaci na kraju ce od antickih samo vardarska da ostane
    Aca Veliki se okrece u grobu
    Daleko ti lepa kuca ahaahhahah

  8. #8
    Elita NEPOBEDIVO SUNCE (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    A drzave u pichku materinu .................kao samostalna 19 godina , a ni ime joj nije upisano u "krshtenici".
    Koje su ovo Pikasove skice na Balkanu , pa to je chudo jedno.
    Neko se poshteno zajehbava sa Balkanskim "narodima" , a dotichni zapenili ko mali majmuni !!!
    Sve je ovo laz pa cak i to !!!

  9. #9
    Buduća legenda Владан (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Грчка, Србија, Македонија морају да се уједине и да поделе Албанију. Албанце, Шиптаре све подавити у Аушвицу, или ће бубашвабе загосподарити нама.

  10. #10
    Domaćin
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio drinjaca Pogledaj poruku
    Грчка, Србија, Македонија морају да се уједине и да поделе Албанију. Албанце, Шиптаре све подавити у Аушвицу, или ће бубашвабе загосподарити нама.



    niste mogli vi protiv njima pa sad morate da se ujedinite protiv albance

    nemoj da ocekivas grci da umiru zbog Kosovo
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la Bugarash : 16.06.2010. u 20:38

  11. #11
    Aktivan član lion king (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Ке биде крвава Вардарска Македонија,па Крвав балкан и на крај Трета светска војна!!!
    Грчка ке ја нема засекогаш,а на Македонија ново сонце ке се раѓа!!!
    Ново сонце на слободата!!!
    Сите оние кој згрешиле ке платат засекогаш!!!


    I would be bloody Vardar Macedonia, and bloody Balkans and finally a third world war!
    Greece will not forever, and Macedonia new sun will be born!
    New sun of freedom!
    All those who have done wrong will pay forever!
    Бити верник је исто као да сте слепи, и да причају приче о светлости!!!

  12. #12
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    Citat Original postavio lion king Pogledaj poruku
    Ке биде крвава Вардарска Македонија,па Крвав балкан и на крај Трета светска војна!!!
    Грчка ке ја нема засекогаш,а на Македонија ново сонце ке се раѓа!!!
    Ново сонце на слободата!!!
    Сите оние кој згрешиле ке платат засекогаш!!!


    I would be bloody Vardar Macedonia, and bloody Balkans and finally a third world war!
    Greece will not forever, and Macedonia new sun will be born!
    New sun of freedom!
    All those who have done wrong will pay forever!
    brate bolji sad prihvatite jel i onako ce da prihvatite na kraj
    sta se mucite poceli ste korenja da jedete


    i sam znas da ako niste u NATO i EU ima bele kapice da vas pojede za dorucak

  13. #13
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име


  14. #14
    Aktivan član lion king (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Bugarash Pogledaj poruku
    brate bolji sad prihvatite jel i onako ce da prihvatite na kraj
    sta se mucite poceli ste korenja da jedete


    i sam znas da ako niste u NATO i EU ima bele kapice da vas pojede za dorucak
    Praticemo ih u Albaniju!!!
    Kao sad u Kirgistan!!!
    To ce i biti!!!
    Бити верник је исто као да сте слепи, и да причају приче о светлости!!!

  15. #15
    Početnik Гробари_Скопје (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Pa vidi , to i nije bas loso reshenje. Vardar tece i u Egej.
    Faith is purest when it is unquestioned

  16. #16
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    Citat Original postavio lion king Pogledaj poruku
    Praticemo ih u Albaniju!!!
    Kao sad u Kirgistan!!!
    To ce i biti!!!
    Uzbekistan nije ih prihvatio


    daj budi ozbiljan , vi niste mogli da ih naterate da uce makeodnski ''jezik'' od prvi razred a kamoli demortacija

  17. #17
    Domaćin
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Гробари_Скопје Pogledaj poruku
    Pa vidi , to i nije bas loso reshenje. Vardar tece i u Egej.
    Yes, but the river runs in Greece under a different name, Axios:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vardar

    The Greek side does not see connection between its part of Macedonia and the name of the river.

  18. #18
    Buduća legenda vracaracc (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Bugarash Pogledaj poruku
    brate bolji sad prihvatite jel i onako ce da prihvatite na kraj
    sta se mucite poceli ste korenja da jedete


    i sam znas da ako niste u NATO i EU ima bele kapice da vas pojede za dorucak
    У "македонији"???


    зашто убисте свог Александрова?
    Зашто да будем политички коректан када могу да будем у праву?

  19. #19
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Plavo Andjelce Pogledaj poruku
    Iz prostog i logicnog razloga, sto je Vardarska Makedonija bila u sklopu Srbije!
    Believe me, you will be the last that will understand what actually happens in Macedonia.

  20. #20
    Nov član Andjela (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Crni Bugarin Pogledaj poruku
    Believe me, you will be the last that will understand what actually happens in Macedonia.
    Ajde? A ti si popio svu pamet ovog sveta i znas sta se desava? Da nece mozda da postane Bugarska?
    Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

  21. #21
    Buduća legenda vracaracc (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Plavo Andjelce Pogledaj poruku
    Ajde? A ti si popio svu pamet ovog sveta i znas sta se desava? Da nece mozda da postane Bugarska?
    Неће..........Бугари убијају своје "македонце" (александров)
    Зашто да будем политички коректан када могу да будем у праву?

  22. #22
    Nov član Andjela (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio vracaracc Pogledaj poruku
    Неће..........Бугари убијају своје "македонце" (александров)
    Znam bre, ali objasni ti njemu to koliko Makedonci mrze Bugare!
    Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

  23. #23
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio drinjaca Pogledaj poruku
    Грчка, Србија, Македонија морају да се уједине и да поделе Албанију. Албанце, Шиптаре све подавити у Аушвицу, или ће бубашвабе загосподарити нама.
    I'm amazed that there are still people who expect Greece to get out of NATO and EU.

  24. #24
    МАЧАК nije na forumu
    ЧУВАР ИДЕОЛОГИЈЕ ЧЕТНИЧКОГ ПОКРЕТА
    Buduća legenda МАЧАК (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio lion king Pogledaj poruku
    Ке биде крвава Вардарска Македонија,па Крвав балкан и на крај Трета светска војна!!!
    Грчка ке ја нема засекогаш,а на Македонија ново сонце ке се раѓа!!!
    Ново сонце на слободата!!!
    Сите оние кој згрешиле ке платат засекогаш!!!


    I would be bloody Vardar Macedonia, and bloody Balkans and finally a third world war!
    Greece will not forever, and Macedonia new sun will be born!
    New sun of freedom!
    All those who have done wrong will pay forever!
    А знаш како ми се ебе за ТВОЈАТА МАКЕДОНИЈА...
    А И БУГАРСКА....
    ЗА ПРАВОГ МАЧКА, СВАКИ МЕСЕЦ ЈЕ ФЕБРУАР

    АХ ДА.... ВИШЕ ОД УСТАША МРЗИМ УСТАШКЕ ЈАТАКЕ

  25. #25
    Buduća legenda vracaracc (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Македонија да додате "Вардарска" у своје име

    Citat Original postavio Crni Bugarin Pogledaj poruku
    I'm amazed that there are still people who expect Greece to get out of NATO and EU.
    Пријатељу..............да ли је теби добро?
    О чему ти говориш?
    Зашто да будем политички коректан када могу да будем у праву?

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