Biblija-istorija pisana unapred!

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Den

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441
:D

Knjiga proroka Danila je jedna od najvise napadanih i kritikovanih knjiga! Zasto? Kriticari Biblije napadaju ovu knjigu zato sto je zapanjujuce precizno opisala dogadjaje koji su se ispunili sa neverovatnom preciznoscu upravo onako kako su bili opisani, sto kasnija istorija i arheologija i dokazuju! Ova knjiga opisuje dogadjaje koji tek trebaju da se ispune, a to su jos jedan rat izmedju Cara Juga (SAD) i Cara Severa (ne zna se ko je),pad Ujedinjenih Nacija, pad svih religija (ostace samo jedna prava religija). Car Severa ce pobediti i posle toga nastupa Armagedon!

Interesantno zar ne?
 
:D

Istoricari da li znate da je prorok Isaija imenovao medopersijskog kralja Kira 200 godina pre njegovog rodjenja? Takodje da je pad Vavilona 607.god.PNE detaljno opisan u Bibliji i da se dogodio i ispunio do u najsitnije detalje?

Dokazi se mogu vrlo lako pronaci!

Da li znate da je Aleksandru Makedonskom bilo prezentovano prorocanstvo proroka Danila o njegovoj pobedi?

Istrazite malo istoriju kroz Bibliju, istoricari i videcete kako je briljantna i naucno tacna ova fantasticna knjiga!
 
Šakal:
:D

učeći istoriju postaješ ateista!

Pogresio si prijatelju! Istrazujuci istoriju i Bibliju bio sam iznenadjen koliko je Biblija precizna i tacna. Najinteresantnije je to sto je Biblija veliki broj dogadjaja koji su se odigrali na svetskoj sceni, opisala stotinama, a neke je Biblija opisala hiljadama godina unapred! Jos interesantnije je to sto su se svi ti dogadjaji odigrali u potpunosti onako kako su u Bibliji opisani. Upravo to istorija potvrdjuje!
 
Šakal:
:D

učeći istoriju postaješ ateista!

Pogresio si prijatelju! Istrazujuci istoriju i Bibliju bio sam iznenadjen koliko je Biblija precizna i tacna. Najinteresantnije je to sto je Biblija veliki broj dogadjaja koji su se odigrali na svetskoj sceni, opisala stotinama, a neke je Biblija opisala hiljadama godina unapred! Jos interesantnije je to sto su se svi ti dogadjaji odigrali u potpunosti onako kako su u Bibliji opisani. Upravo to istorija potvrdjuje!
 
Šakal:
:D

učeći istoriju postaješ ateista!

Pogresio si prijatelju! Istrazujuci istoriju i Bibliju bio sam iznenadjen koliko je Biblija precizna i tacna. Najinteresantnije je to sto je Biblija veliki broj dogadjaja koji su se odigrali na svetskoj sceni, opisala stotinama, a neke je Biblija opisala hiljadama godina unapred! Jos interesantnije je to sto su se svi ti dogadjaji odigrali u potpunosti onako kako su u Bibliji opisani. Upravo to istorija potvrdjuje!
 
Den:
Šakal:
:D

učeći istoriju postaješ ateista!

Pogresio si prijatelju! Istrazujuci istoriju i Bibliju bio sam iznenadjen koliko je Biblija precizna i tacna. Najinteresantnije je to sto je Biblija veliki broj dogadjaja koji su se odigrali na svetskoj sceni, opisala stotinama, a neke je Biblija opisala hiljadama godina unapred! Jos interesantnije je to sto su se svi ti dogadjaji odigrali u potpunosti onako kako su u Bibliji opisani. Upravo to istorija potvrdjuje!


Potpuno si u pravu,ali ja nisam to hteo da kažem već nešto sasvim drugo,nisi me ukapirao.
Mislim na sve one ratove i zločine koji su se dogodili u istoriji i na sve one ljudske gluposti kojih nebi bilo da su se samo malo pridržavali Božijih reči!
 
Šakal:
:D

Mislim na sve one ratove i zločine koji su se dogodili u istoriji i na sve one ljudske gluposti kojih nebi bilo da su se samo malo pridržavali Božijih reči!

Slazem se u potpunosti s tobom, ali Stvoritelj je upozorio prve ljude rekavsi da ce imati posledice ako se ne pridrzavaju njegovih uputstava. To se sada i dogadja, ali nece jos dugo!
 
Den:
:D

Istoricari da li znate da je prorok Isaija imenovao medopersijskog kralja Kira 200 godina pre njegovog rodjenja? Takodje da je pad Vavilona 607.god.PNE detaljno opisan u Bibliji i da se dogodio i ispunio do u najsitnije detalje?

Dokazi se mogu vrlo lako pronaci!

Da li znate da je Aleksandru Makedonskom bilo prezentovano prorocanstvo proroka Danila o njegovoj pobedi?

Istrazite malo istoriju kroz Bibliju, istoricari i videcete kako je briljantna i naucno tacna ova fantasticna knjiga!

...dobar deo biblije, po misljenjima jednog kruga istoricara i arheologa je antidatiran, i pisan kasnije...
...sama biblija je prosla kroz nekoliko poznatih redaktura, kada su neke stvari izbacene iz nje...
...tih redaktura, pogotovo starog zaveta je moglo biti i ranije, i pre hriscanstva...
...stari zavet je pogotovo podlozan ovim hronoloskim kritikama i sumnjama...
...voleo bih da si naveo izvor koji pise o Aleksandru i tom spisu prorka Danila...
 
Monty:
:D

...dobar deo biblije, po misljenjima jednog kruga istoricara i arheologa je antidatiran, i pisan kasnije...
...sama biblija je prosla kroz nekoliko poznatih redaktura, kada su neke stvari izbacene iz nje...
...tih redaktura, pogotovo starog zaveta je moglo biti i ranije, i pre hriscanstva...
...stari zavet je pogotovo podlozan ovim hronoloskim kritikama i sumnjama...
...voleo bih da si naveo izvor koji pise o Aleksandru i tom spisu prorka Danila...

Potrudicu se da pronadjem izvore koje trazis. Ja bih, takodje voleo da ti navedes izvore koji potvrdjuju tvoje izjave.

Pozdrav!
 
Den:
Monty:
:D

...dobar deo biblije, po misljenjima jednog kruga istoricara i arheologa je antidatiran, i pisan kasnije...
...sama biblija je prosla kroz nekoliko poznatih redaktura, kada su neke stvari izbacene iz nje...
...tih redaktura, pogotovo starog zaveta je moglo biti i ranije, i pre hriscanstva...
...stari zavet je pogotovo podlozan ovim hronoloskim kritikama i sumnjama...
...voleo bih da si naveo izvor koji pise o Aleksandru i tom spisu prorka Danila...

Potrudicu se da pronadjem izvore koje trazis. Ja bih, takodje voleo da ti navedes izvore koji potvrdjuju tvoje izjave.

Pozdrav!

...da, sto se tice izvora na koje se neko poziva, o njima se uvek moze raspravljati...
...ja cu se ovde zadrzati samo na Starom zavetu...
...elem, arheolozi i istoricari koji se bave istrazivanjima Biblije, i Svete zemlje, a koji zastupaju ova stanovista su:
Hansvulf Bledhorn, sa Evangelistickog instituta za istoriju Svete zemlje; Izrael Finkelstajn, arheolog sa Univerziteta u Tel Avivu, koji u svojoj studiji "Bez jerihonskih truba" obradjuje ovu temu; Dirk Kinet, predavac biblijskih jezika na Univerzitetu u Augsburgu; Andre Kako, francuski arheolog koji radi na iskopavanjima u Svetoj zemlji; Bernd Jerg Dibner, profesor Evangelistickog fakulteta u Hajdelbergu, i da ne nabrajam vise, njihova imena mozda i nisu toliko vazna...

...ukratko, medju istoricarima i proucavaocima Biblije, u ovom slucaju Starog zaveta, koji se bave proucavanjem biblijskih dogadjanja i njihovom hronologijom postoje tri struje:
-tradicionalisti, koji smatraju da su glavni tekstovi Starog zaveta napisani oko 1000. PNE.
-umerena struja, koja ove tekstove datira oko 600. PNE.
-minimalisti, koji smatraju da je dobar deo tekstova pisan pod uticajem helenizma, posle 330. PNE. Dakle, posle smrti Sokrata i Platona.

...gore pomenuti Dibner, smatra da je Tora dokument koji je doradjivan sve do 50. NE...
...najstariji do sada pronadjeni spisi su Kumranski spisi, koji sadrze dela biblijskih proroka, a njihova starost je uz pomoc izotopa ugljenika datirana oko 240. PNE...
...antika, pak, gotovo i ne pominje dela iz Judeje, a takva knjiga kao sto je Mojsijevo petoknjizje, je sigurno morala biti zapazena....
...najnovija iskopavanja u Svetoj zemlji potvrdjuju da je oko 600. PNE stanovnistvo Judeje bilo politeisticko...

...o ovoj temi prosle godine, izasao je i sjajan feljton u NIN-u, odakle sam preuzeo neke od podataka i neka imena koja sam pomenuo ovde...
...malim istrazivanjem po netu, ako nista drugo, moze se naci jos podosta clanaka koji obradjuju ovu temu, i gde svi zainteresovani mogu pronaci ponesto za sebe...

...nadam se da sam bio od pomoci...
...pozdrav...
 
Monty:
...da, kao sto rekoh o izvorima se moze uvek raspravljati...
...snalazim se prilicno dobro... 8)

:D

Pozdrav Monty!

Evo saljem ti neke detalje o istorijskim zapisima knjige Danila:


OUTSIDE TESTIMONY IN FAVOR OF DANIEL

25 Let us move again to the positive. It has been suggested that no other book of the Hebrew Scriptures is as well attested to as Daniel. To illustrate: The famous Jewish historian Josephus attests to its authenticity. He says that Alexander the Great, during his war against Persia in the fourth century B.C.E., came to Jerusalem, where the priests showed him a copy of the book of Daniel. Alexander himself concluded that the words of Daniel’s prophecy that were pointed out to him referred to his own military campaign involving Persia. This would have been about a century and a half before the “forgery” as proposed by critics. Of course, critics have assailed Josephus concerning this passage. They also assail him for noting that some prophecies in the book of Daniel were fulfilled. Yet, as historian Joseph D. Wilson remarked, “[Josephus] probably knew more of the matter than all the critics in the world.

26 The authenticity of the book of Daniel received further support when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the caves of Qumran, Israel. Surprisingly numerous among the finds discovered in 1952 are scrolls and fragments from the book of Daniel. The oldest has been dated to the late second century B.C.E. At that early date, therefore, the book of Daniel was already well-known and widely respected. Notes The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible: “A Maccabean dating for Daniel has now to be abandoned, if only because there could not possibly be a sufficient interval between the composition of Daniel and its appearance in the form of copies in the library of a Maccabean religious sect.”

27 However, there is far older and more reliable attestation to the book of Daniel. One of Daniel’s contemporaries was the prophet Ezekiel. He too served as a prophet during the Babylonian exile. Several times, the book of Ezekiel mentions Daniel by name. (Ezekiel 14:14, 20; 28:3) These references show that even during his own lifetime, in the sixth century B.C.E., Daniel was already well-known as a righteous and a wise man, worthy of being mentioned alongside God-fearing Noah and Job.

THE GREATEST WITNESS

28 Finally, though, let us consider the greatest of all the witnesses to the authenticity of Daniel—none other than Jesus Christ. In his discussion of the last days, Jesus refers to “Daniel the prophet” and to one of Daniel’s prophecies.—Matthew 24:15; Daniel 11:31; 12:11.

29 Now if the Maccabean theory of the critics were correct, one of two things would have to be true. Either Jesus was duped by this forgery or he never said what Matthew quotes him as saying. Neither option is viable. If we cannot rely on Matthew’s Gospel account, how can we rely on other parts of the Bible? If we remove those sentences, what words will we next pluck from the pages of the Holy Scriptures? The apostle Paul wrote: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, . . . for setting things straight.” (2 Timothy 3:16) So if Daniel was a fraud, then Paul was another one! Could Jesus have been duped? Hardly. He was alive in heaven when the book of Daniel was written. Jesus even said: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (John 8:58) Of all humans who have ever lived, Jesus would be the best one for us to ask for information regarding the authenticity of Daniel. But we do not have to ask. As we have seen, his testimony could scarcely be any clearer.

30 Jesus further authenticated the book of Daniel at the very time of his baptism. He then became the Messiah, fulfilling a prophecy in Daniel regarding the 69 weeks of years. (Daniel 9:25, 26; see Chapter 11 of this book.) Even if what may be called the late date theory were true, the writer of Daniel still knew the future some 200 years in advance. Of course, God would not inspire a forger to utter true prophecies under a false name. No, the witness of Jesus is wholeheartedly accepted by people faithful to God. If all the experts, all the critics in the world, were to mount up as one to denounce Daniel, the testimony of Jesus would prove them wrong, for he is “the faithful and true witness.”—Revelation 3:14.

31 Even this testimony is not enough for many Bible critics. After considering this subject thoroughly, one cannot help but wonder if any amount of evidence would be enough to convince them. One professor at Oxford University wrote: “Nothing is gained by a mere answer to objections, so long as the original prejudice, ‘there cannot be supernatural prophecy,’ remains.” So their prejudice blinds them. But that is their choice—and their loss.

32 What about you? If you can see that there is no real reason to doubt the authenticity of the book of Daniel, then you are ready for an exciting voyage of discovery. You will find the narratives in Daniel thrilling, the prophecies fascinating. More important, you will find your faith growing stronger with each chapter. You will never regret paying close attention to Daniel’s prophecy!

[Footnotes]

Some critics try to temper the charge of forgery by saying that the writer used Daniel as a pseudonym, just as some ancient noncanonical books were written under assumed names. However, the Bible critic Ferdinand Hitzig held: “The case of the book of Daniel, if it is assigned to any other [writer], is different. Then it becomes a forged writing, and the intention was to deceive his immediate readers, though for their good.”

Nabonidus was away when Babylon fell. Thus, Belshazzar is rightly described as king at that time. Critics quibble that secular records do not give Belshazzar the official title of king. Nevertheless, ancient evidence suggests that even a governor may have been spoken of as king by the people in those days.

Hebrew scholar C. F. Keil writes of Daniel 5:3: “The LXX. have here, and also at ver. 23, omitted mention of the women, according to the custom of the Macedonians, Greeks, and Romans.”


Bilo bi interesantno da cujem tvoje misljenje o svemu gore navedenom!
 
:D

...pozdrav Den...
...nisam se ovih dana kacio na net , pa sam tek veceras video tvoj post...
...u svakom slucaju hvala ti sto si ga postovao...

...kao sto rekoh, o izvorima se uvek moze raspravljati...
...dakle o samom Jozefu, jevrejskom istoricaru bi se dalo pricati...
...no da ne duzim...
...i sam znas da su istoricari tog doba umeli da dodaju i oduzimaju poprilicno prema svom nahodjenju...
...grcki istoricari tog doba ne pominju tu epizodu...
...dakle, imamo jedan izvor, jevrejski, koji pominje da je Aleksandar licno potvrdio da se dato predvidjanje odnosi na njega...
...da sad i ostavimo sam izvor i njegovu pouzdanost, Aleksandar je i inace potvrdjivao mnoga predskazanja koja su mu isla u korist...
...pod uticajem majke Olimpijade cak je sebe smatrao i sinom boga...

...i sama Ilustrovana Enciklopedija Biblije, pomenuta ovde, iz drugih pobuda doduse, ipak dovodi u sumnju datiranje Makabejaca, o cemu inace pisu i istoricari i arheolozi koje sam naveo u prethodnom postu...

...sledeci izvor je knjiga Jezekije, jos jednog od proroka, u ciju se autenticnost takodje moze sumnjati, a u kojoj se u par navrata pominje Danilovo ime...

...i na kraju autor ovog teksta se poziva na najveceg svedoka - Isusa, licno...
...doduse kroz jevandjelje po Mateji...
...a logika kojom se koristi autor je sledeca, ako sumnjamo u jevendjelje po Mateji, onda bismo mogli sumnjati i u Bibliju samu, pa cak i u Pavla, a posredno i u Isusa...
...ergo, sve sto pise u Bibliji je apsolutno tacno...
...pa, ovde bih i mogao da se slozim sa neimenovanim profesorom sa Oksforda i njegovom recenicom u vezi sa predrasudama...

...u svakom slucaju, bilo mi je interesantno da procitam ovaj tekst, ali me izvori i izvedeni dokazi nisu uverili u tacnost tvrdnje da je Danilo predvideo pobede Aleksandra, a to je ionako usput pomenuto u ovom tekstu...
...jos manje su me, zbog samog nacina na koji je ovaj tekst pisan, ubedili u tacnost Danilovih prorokovanja...
...zamolio bih te jos samo da mi kazes odakle je ovaj tekst...

...i na kraju, da ti se jos jedanput zahvalim za trud koji si ulozio zarad postavljanja prethodnog posta...
...pozdrav...
 
:D

Pozdrav Monty!

Obzirom da ti je engleski odlican, evo jos nekih detalja koji govore o istorijskoj preciznosti biblije:

Prophecies That Came True

Humans cannot foretell the future with any certainty. Time and again their efforts at prediction fail miserably. So a book of prophecies that did come true has to attract our attention. The Bible is such a book.

MANY Bible prophecies have come true in such detail that critics claim they were written after the fulfillment. But such claims are untrue. God, being almighty, is fully capable of prophesying. (Isaiah 41:21-26; 42:8, 9; 46:8-10) Biblical prophecies that came true are evidence of divine inspiration, not of late authorship. We will look now at some outstanding prophecies that came true—providing additional proof that the Bible is God’s word, not just man’s.

The Exile in Babylon

2 Hezekiah was king in Jerusalem for about 30 years. In 740 B.C.E. he witnessed the destruction of his northern neighbor Israel at the hands of Assyria. In 732 B.C.E. he experienced God’s saving power, when the Assyrian attempt to conquer Jerusalem had failed, with catastrophic results to the invader.—Isaiah 37:33-38.

3 Now, Hezekiah is receiving a delegation from Merodach-baladan, king of Babylon. On the surface, the ambassadors are there to congratulate Hezekiah on his recovery from a severe illness. Likely, though, Merodach-baladan sees Hezekiah as a possible ally against the world power of Assyria. Hezekiah does nothing to dispel such an idea when he shows the visiting Babylonians all the wealth of his house and dominion. Perhaps he, too, wants allies against a possible return of the Assyrians.—Isaiah 39:1, 2.

4 Isaiah is the outstanding prophet of that time, and he quickly discerns Hezekiah’s indiscretion. He knows that Hezekiah’s surest defense is Jehovah, not Babylon, and tells him that his act of showing the Babylonians his wealth will lead to tragedy. “Days are coming,” says Isaiah, “and all that is in your own house and that your forefathers have stored up down to this day will actually be carried to Babylon.” Jehovah decreed: “Nothing will be left.”—Isaiah 39:5, 6.

5 Back in the eighth century B.C.E., it may have seemed unlikely for that prophecy to be fulfilled. One hundred years later, however, the situation changed. Babylon replaced Assyria as the dominant world power, while Judah became so degraded, religiously speaking, that God withdrew his blessing. Now, another prophet, Jeremiah, was inspired to repeat Isaiah’s warning. Jeremiah proclaimed: “I will bring [the Babylonians] against this land and against its inhabitants . . . And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”—Jeremiah 25:9, 11.

6 About four years after Jeremiah uttered that prophecy, the Babylonians made Judah part of their empire. Three years after that, they took some Jewish captives, along with some of the wealth of the temple at Jerusalem, to Babylon. Eight years later, Judah revolted and was again invaded by the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar. This time, the city and its temple were destroyed. All its wealth, and the Jews themselves, were carried off to distant Babylon, just as Isaiah and Jeremiah had foretold.—2 Chronicles 36:6, 7, 12, 13, 17-21.

7 The Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land notes that when the Babylonian onslaught was over, “the destruction of the city [Jerusalem] was a total one.”1 Archaeologist W. F. Albright states: “Excavation and surface exploration in Judah have proved that the towns of Judah were not only completely destroyed by the Chaldeans in their two invasions, but were not reoccupied for generations—often never again in history.”2 Thus, archaeology confirms the shocking fulfillment of this prophecy.

Iz prethodnog posta vidimo da je knjiga Danila potvrdjena pronalaskom spisa sa Kumrana.
 
ena28:

...da, mnogi od istorijskih dogadjaja koje opisuje Biblija potvrdjeni su i dokazani arheoloskim iskopavanjima i tekstovima pisanim klinastim pismom ili drugim pismima ondasnjeg vremena...

:D

Pozdrav Ena!

Ja sam zaista fasciniran preciznoscu kojom Biblija opisuje dogadjaje koji su se dogodili onako kako su i opisani.Da li i ti istrazujes Bibliju?
 
izinite sto se mesam ali dali je neko procitao "Biblijske Legende" od Zenona Kosidovskog misli da ima neke veoma zanimljive teze o Bibliji kao o istorijskom dokumentu i koliko je istorija ikrivljena u bibliji

zao mi je Den ali jednostavno postoje neke velike greske u belezenju istorije u bibliji jer je biblija ipak religijska knjiga a ne istorijska i ljudi koji su pisali bibliju bili su svestenici koji su ipak malo iskrivili istinu u svoje religijske potrebe


rodjen 1432 na odmoru od 1745
 
stanje
Zatvorena za pisanje odgovora.

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