Ateizam

alles_gut:

Ćao ZmAjEvA...imam samo jedno pitanje:
Pošto kažeš da je ovde utrošak vremena besmislen...
Gde to, po tebi, utrošak vremena nije besmislen?
Jel na lj & s, gde se piše o tome koliko je ko puta drndao mindžu ili falus i sl.? :

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Tsuymish:

...al nisam mogla da ne ponovim ovo

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valaam:

Идем да проверим то

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Zazijavalo:

Izvinjavam se, ali promaklo mi je pa pitam ovako: Šta je tvoj doprinos razjašnjavanju problema kojim se bavi tema?

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Tsuymish:

gmizavaca

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Šakal:

A - Teos(na Grčkom) i u bukvalnom prevodu znači BEZBOŽNIŠTVO!
Stanje nemanja teističkih verovanja ili aktivno neverovanje u postojanje božanstva a kroz istoriju se vrlo često vezuje za filozofske škole agnosticizma, materijalizma, empirizma ili racionalizma ali nije nužno pravilo.
Sam izraz je nastao u 16-om veku a sama spontana verovanja da božanstva ne postoje stara su koliko i sam teizam.
Filozofska kapiranja koja danas zovemo ateizmom su mnogo starija od hrišćanstva i javljaju se u Aziji otprilike u 6-om veku pre nove ere... kada su nastale i nove religije... Taoizam u Kini, Džainizam i Budizam u Indiji...

Postoje dve vrste ateizma:

1. Slab ateizam - implicitni ili negativni ateizam, stanje neverovanja u božanstva

2. Čvrst ateizam - eksplicitni ili pozitivni ateizam, stanje verovanja da božanstva ne postoje

Dakle, sam svoj majstor. Veruj u sebe i misli svojom glavom... jer, i na autobusu piše ''banca intessa'' al' nema šalter!

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ZmAjEvA:

Da se vratimo temi. Gde je ovde postavljen problem?

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ZmAjEvA:

Inace, ljudi koji vole da razmisljaju rade to i van foruma, i ne drze se jedne teme ko pijan plota godinama i ne ponavljaju se ko pokvarena ploca ( jesi li razmisljao o tome?) i polja interesovanja su im raznovrsna.

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ZmAjEvA:

I naravno da o ljubavi i sexu ima sta da se razmislja, cak su ta razmisljanja korisnija od ovog praznog samopalamudjenja. Resavaju konkretne probleme konkretnih ljudi. Opet si povrsan, Sizife.

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ZmAjEvA:

A mogla bi da objasnis i zasto. Mislim, kad vec nesto preporucujes.

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Goddess of the far east:

mms://wm.nmmstream.net/aspen/ideas07/believingtheunbelievable.wmv

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Frequently Asked Questions

Q. Does "God" exist?
A. No

Q. WWJD?
A. Nothing. It is a loaded question based upon the badly discredited premise that "Jesus" is (a) alive, and (b) in a position to do anything. The belief that this alleged "son of god" has (a) infinite and supernatural power, and (b) the inclination to use it to save Humanity is probably wrong considering he couldn't even get out on bail.

Q. Is Atheism a religion?
A. Only to those who suffer under the delusion that such verbal perversions have some undefined legal ramifications regarding prayer in school or other such nonsense. In reality, Atheism is pretty much the opposite of religion, so whoever told you that told you wrong.

Q. Is Evolution a religion?
A. Another religio-political verbal perversion which seems to occasionally work at school board meetings in some of the more theocratic states. Their "reasoning" seems to be something like this: the ridiculous biblical creationism fairy tale has nothing to do with a specific religion, but is actually a valid, though overlooked scientific "theory", while the actual biological science of Evolution is a "religion" unsupported by any evidence, and as such should not be taught in schools because that would be wrong. Those who find such "logic" attractive should go read a book and try not to show their ignorance in public.

Q. Is religion 100% grade A bullshit?
A. Yes

Q. Flamewarrior? Are you an arsonist?
A. No. If you are unfamiliar with online discussion forums, the term flamewar refers to the heated exchanges that frequently occur between individuals or groups holding opposing views. This happens, for example, when some dimwitted fundamentalist is essentially getting his irrational ass verbally kicked in a debate. When confronted with too much reason, logic, or objective reality, he is likely to become surly, belligerent and abusive and will usually start flaming (typing in all caps, making dire predictions about your probable future in Hell). Calmly and meticulously destroying the aforementioned nimrod's flimsy, incoherent, vaporous responses is not technically flaming although it is sometimes perceived as such by someone who has been publicly and thoroughly humiliated.

Q. How do you win a flamewar?
A. The goal is to get the fundamentalist to cry. Count a win if you get the fundie to issue death threats or quit the discussion in a snit.

Q. Can fundamentalists handle constructive criticism?
A. No, they quickly anger when their superstition is questioned. Thinly veiled threats of eternal damnation are frequently made with the clear implication that no punishment is severe enough for those who don't blindly accept the xian god-myth.

Q. Are all god-believers idiots?
A. No, not all. They are merely misinformed and frequently boneheaded. Sometimes their skewed view of reality makes them behave like idiots. Sometimes it even makes 'em dangerous.

Q. So Atheists don't believe in anything?
A. Not in fairy tales. Not in flagrant contradictions. Not without some proof. I live in an objective universe and I am quite confident in its existence. It is abundantly clear that the uninformed, superstition-laden guesswork of the ancients regarding the workings of the universe was wrong. It is not necessary, nor is it beneficial, to "believe" in that silliness.

Q. Will church attendance become mandatory with George the Appointed as president?
A. Yes.

Q. Does the bible say not to kill people?
A. Yes

Q. Does the bible say to kill people?
A. Yes

Q. Is Tom DeLay the anti-christ?
A. Tom DeLay is Satan

Q. Are you the anti-christ?
A. No.

Q. How do you know god doesn't exist?
A. Same way you know Santa Claus doesn't exist. It's a ******* fairy tale. Grow up.

Q. Prove it!
A. Bite me.

Q. Well, I believe in god!
A. Sorry, you are just plain wrong.

Q. YOU'RE GONNA BURN IN HELL FOREVER LIKE YOU DESERVE, MOTHERFUCKER!!!
A. Learn that in church?

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Rick Wingrove is a citizen, a veteran, a voter, a parent, a taxpayer, a homeowner, a Constitutional patriot, and a hard, assertive, full realization Atheist. He is of the opinion that politics wed to religious fundamentalism is a recipe for disaster - that government joined at the hip with religion will be very bad for the notion of individual liberty. He also thinks that GeorgeW. Shitforbrains is the most deficient "president" in American History, who was rejected by the voters, but who managed to Forrest Gump his way into the White House where he floundered in ineptitude until September 11th brought surly nationalism back into vogue and made people willing to ignore his inadequacies.

Rick is interested in motorcycles, photography, woodwork, advancing the understanding of Atheism, and getting his daughter through college.

Rick is a freelance web and graphic designer. Sadly, there is not that much money in professional atheism.

Rick lives in the fundamentalist theme park of Virginia, near DC, where he is appalled daily by the stupidity, corruption, and pure evil emanating from inside the Beltway.

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Everyone Is An Atheist
On this planet, there exist literally thousands of religions/cults, each with its own particular god/s, each reveling in the certainty that they alone have it right, and each bewildered by the failure of all the others to recognize the obvious truth. Some of these religions, the large powerful proselytizing religions, are a little more adamant about the truth than others. Each claims to be the "One True Religion" (OTR) and all share a high level of disdain for Atheism. What seems lost on them is that in order to maintain their belief in the local OTR, they necessarily practice a rigorous and mandatory style of selective atheism. They just don't realize that they are doing it.

Christians make much of the fact that they are the largest religion on the planet. That is true only if you disregard all the scriptural differences which make every splinter cult certain that all the others are not true christians and are going straight to hell where they deserve to burn in torment forever for their inaccuracies. (Don't believe me? - ask a baptist where a catholic is going to spend eternity. What is funny is that all these folks claim that their church, and only their church, teaches straight from the bible without any fancy "interpretation".) Anyway, for the sake of this argument, lets disregard all the disparities and scripture-based infighting and call all the xian cults a single OTR. What seems to escape them is that, even though they are the largest religion on the planet, (and many of them take this as clear indication that they are the OTR), there are still about 75% of the people on this planet who clearly recognize that xianity is a false religion.

So, every religion shares the same myopia regarding their own deity. Every religion is the one true religion and all other religions are false. Every religions god is true while all the others are pretenders. It is childishly obvious to any devout christian - or muslim - that the thousands of gods of all the competing superstitious cults are patently false. You can do the math. I come up with exactly ZERO actual existing deities.
I am an Atheist ...

By definition, Atheism means only that I have no belief in gods. To say the least, I find the stories about gods to be unconvincing. To say it another way, I find the ancient fables to be exactly as convincing as the stories about Santa Claus or Superman. As a thinking adult, I am under no obligation to believe what reason and experience show me to be false.

We are all born atheists, without religious belief, without the concept of Reason, and without the ability to apply skepticism, but possessing a brain which soaks up information like a sponge, even if that information is erroneous. It is during this early, pliable phase when parents and society begin to pummel young, uncritical, defenseless minds with stories of the locally popular deities, omnipotent powers, eternal life, and the dire consequences that will accompany disbelief. With these stories comes a frightening prohibition against any form of skepticism, which inflicts permanent disability upon the ability to apply Reason. More than merely frightening, all deistic religions cap off their indoctrination by making it dangerous, even lethal, to ask simple, reasonable questions about the most fundamental elements of their faith. Questions and doubt are mental crimes and grievous insults to the supreme creator of the curious mind. Deistic religions demand immunity from examination. By crushing all inquiry, the religions have quieted opposition and rendered huge swaths of civilization permanently incapable of questioning the answers they have been given – answers without questions.

Fortunately, it does not work on everyone, and despite the best efforts of the Southern Baptists, It did not work on me. Somehow I managed to retain my natural curiosity and, over time, I developed a healthy skepticism and an inability to blindly accept the ancient god stories without a more coherent set of explanations than was available in an ancient holy book. I realized at an early age that what they were selling just wasn’t true.

I did not arrive at this position lightly. I was raised in the church and every attempt was made to set my mind with Christian dogma. I read my bible and went regularly to services and church activities. I tried real hard for awhile to get a sense of “God”, but I sensed only absence. As my skepticism grew, I couldn’t help but notice that the stories I was told were strikingly close to the old stories of the Greek and Norse gods, differing only in the details, not in credibility. The ancient and various tales – no more reliable or believable than campfire stories, really - about deities creating the Universe were such obvious mythology that they were quickly abandoned in favor of a more Scientific and rational examination. Reason and Science, the mechanisms for the acquisition and validation of knowledge, won out for the simple reason that they were actually capable of supplying answers.

The disparity between the ancient fables and the realities of the Universe was most obvious when contrasting the biblical genesis tale against the discoveries about origins provided by the study of Cosmology. On origins, either cosmic or Human, the bible answered correctly in this area not once and corresponded to reality not at all. Instead, I turned to sources on astronomy and cosmology, and supplemented over time with evolution, quantum physics, history, sociology, and psychology. All these subjects taken together mesh into a coherent and rational explanation for the workings of the Universe. They also provide some perspective regarding the place of Humans in that Universe.

A comprehensive explanation is not simple and cannot be reduced to verse-sized sound bites. It could never have been understood or discovered by uneducated, illiterate and credulous Humans thousands of years ago. Nor is it palatable to those who cling to the old stories. The explanations are complex, far-ranging, and inter-related. The explanations require thought and they require study; they require process and must stand up to rigorous examination. The explanations are in no way augmented by the insertion of magical deities. Observed, and validated facts diverged wildly from the guesswork of the ancients.

In the end, religion made no sense to me. The gap between what the church taught and what reality showed could not be closed. I finally accepted that I was a natural-born, fully realized Atheist.

In short, I am utterly convinced, that all the stories about all the thousands of gods ever proposed by Humans are concoctions based on fear and wishful thinking, and are not connected to objective reality. I am as certain that there are no gods as I am that there are no unicorns, or leprechauns, or monsters under the bed.

I can justify saying that these things do not exist. To make such a statement will cause logical purists some heartburn due to the fact that it is never possible to prove a negative. But even the purists know that it is OK to stop searching for Unicorns.

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... and so are you.
Now, the point of that whole semi-biographical roundabout was so that I can show that you are also an Atheist. All adamantly religious people are hard, committed Atheists. Just not very good ones.

Just like myself, members of every religion, commonly claiming to be the One True Religion, hold every other religion, also commonly claiming to be the One True Religion, and held by its practitioners to be absolutely true, to be utterly false. If you do the math on that you will see that the vast majority of people on this planet recognize your religion, whatever it may be, as pure fantasy.

The atheism of the religious is not done after a careful weighing of the evidence. Nor is it done after a thorough 'compare and contrast’ of the tenets of your religion against what is known about the workings of the Universe. True to the early indoctrination of your own religion, you just plain old don’t and won’t believe in the gods of the other religions. To you, just as they are to me, they are all obviously false and unworthy of further consideration. Proof is unnecessary and a waste of time as you summarily dismiss several thousand alleged gods without any thought whatsoever.

When you examine your attitudes about all the other religions, you can understand exactly my attitude towards all those religions. Your view of all those religions varies from mine not at all. In the case of each and every one of those alleged deities you are experiencing and practicing pure, hard Atheism.

Of all the thousands of gods that people have believed in, prayed to, and entrusted their wellbeing to, you retain belief, not surprisingly, only in your locally popular deity. When you do the math on that, you will see that, except for your small localized blind spot, you are every bit the Atheist I am. The only difference is that my Atheism also applies to your local religion, while you persist in an inexplicable, irrational, and indefensible breach of consistency.

A final word
Is there a point to all this? Yes. There is an inherent contradiction built into every fundamentalist religion – open contempt for Atheists while practicing near universal Atheism towards all other religions. Those who are bent to religion frequently express incomprehension as to how an Atheist could not see the “truth” of the existence of their locally popular deity. Easy. Look to yourself - you do it all the time. You are an Atheist. Welcome to my world.

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