Persona Chart
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  1. #1
    Aktivan član Neptunijanka (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Persona Chart




    Ljudi sta znate o metodi Moon Persona chart. Na to sam naisla jos u Astro World programu, a ima ga i na astro dienstu. Poenta je da ova metoda stavlja Sunce na tacno mesto (stepen, minuti i sekund ) gde je natalni Mesec, ali od trenutka rodjenja pa kada Sunce doseta do Meseceve pozicije. Na taj nacin se dobijaju pozicije svih ostalih planeta i podznaka. I onda se ne znam kako to tumaci i pojma nemama sta je poenta toga. Da li je neko citao nesto o tome ili prisustovao nekom predavanju na tu temu?


    Evo primera natalne karte i persona karte :





    [IMG]

    http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5192/natalfr2.93ee1f0084.jpg[/IMG]
    Poslednji put ažurirao/la EIIe : 05.06.2008. u 01:52



  2. #2
    Moderator EIIe (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Persona Chart

    Morala sam da ti prepravim post jer je onako bilo ogromno, slike nisu bile raspoređene kako treba.

    Već je neko postavio ranije to pitanje pa da se citiram ...
    Persona chartovi računaju se kao karte momenta kada Sunce u tranzitu prvi put pređe preko natalne pozicije neke planete. Znači, Moon persona chart pokazuje momenat kada je Sunce u tranzitu prešlo preko natalnog Meseca prvi put.

    Ima na astro.comu dosta tekstova na tu temu.

  3. #3
    Iskusan sevilja (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Persona Chart

    Šta se analizira iz te karte?

  4. #4
    Aktivan član Antonina (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio sevilja Pogledaj poruku
    Šta se analizira iz te karte?
    Da, sta se iz toga dobija?

  5. #5
    Aktivan član Antonina (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio Elle_77 Pogledaj poruku
    Morala sam da ti prepravim post jer je onako bilo ogromno, slike nisu bile raspoređene kako treba.

    Već je neko postavio ranije to pitanje pa da se citiram ...
    Persona chartovi računaju se kao karte momenta kada Sunce u tranzitu prvi put pređe preko natalne pozicije neke planete. Znači, Moon persona chart pokazuje momenat kada je Sunce u tranzitu prešlo preko natalnog Meseca prvi put.

    Ima na astro.comu dosta tekstova na tu temu.

    A zato u Astro Worldu 2001 imas mogucnost da izracunas moon chart, venus cahrt i za svkau planetu.........reko' sta im je ovo sad?!

    E, pa videcemo sta kaze astro dienst. com

  6. #6
    Moderator EIIe (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio sevilja Pogledaj poruku
    Šta se analizira iz te karte?
    Koliko se sećam, više govori o stvarima na psihološkom nivou nego što daje neke konkretne informacije.
    Kad budem imala vremena pogledaću ponovo sve one tekstove i napisati najbitnije.

    Citat Original postavio Antonina Pogledaj poruku
    A zato u Astro Worldu 2001 imas mogucnost da izracunas moon chart, venus cahrt i za svkau planetu.........reko' sta im je ovo sad?!

    E, pa videcemo sta kaze astro dienst. com
    Pa jesi sigurna da je to jedno te isto...?

  7. #7
    Aktivan član Neptunijanka (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Persona Chart

    Original postavio Antonina Pogledaj poruku
    A zato u Astro Worldu 2001 imas mogucnost da izracunas moon chart, venus cahrt i za svkau planetu.........reko' sta im je ovo sad?!

    E, pa videcemo sta kaze astro dienst. com

    Ovo sam ja pisala nego se "Antonina" nije izlogovala


    Pa da verujem da je to to. Ne znamst bi drugo moglo da bude. Ali sam deintalirala Astro World pa ne mogu sada da provrim da li je taj sistem sa Suncem i odredjenom planetom. Videcu da ga nastimujem opet kada budem imala vremena pa da vidim.

    I nasla sam tekst o tome na astro dienstu, ali od ovih ljudi na poslu ne mogu da stignem da citam. Neki buran dan

  8. #8
    vipcurlic nije na forumu
    Saturn - volim ga, ali bih ga rado izbrisala gumicom da ga nema :)
    Domaćin vipcurlic (avatar)
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    Koliko sam ja snimila, i ovde ima 9-personal karte..sve tako bas..kad je sunce prvi put doslo na poziciju svake od drugih planeta po rodjenju...pa se zovu Meseceva, venerina, merkurova itd..karta redom

  9. #9
    Aktivan član Neptunijanka (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio vipcurlic Pogledaj poruku
    Koliko sam ja snimila, i ovde ima 9-personal karte..sve tako bas..kad je sunce prvi put doslo na poziciju svake od drugih planeta po rodjenju...pa se zovu Meseceva, venerina, merkurova itd..karta redom

    E , pa to ja kazem. Zanci to sto postoji u Astro Worldu je upravo to. a cudno mi je da su tu opciju metnuli, kada ta metoda i nije nesto popularna..................... mislim kada ko spominje to. Nego jel zna neko jel ima toga u Win staru? Mrzi me da preturam po programu

  10. #10
    Ističe se
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    ma da to je to....ali ja sam isto za to čuo ali ne znam kako se tumači i koja je svrha toga.

  11. #11
    Primećen član webhanuma (avatar)
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    Lepa je igrica, jednako je informativna kao povratak marsa, venere...na natalnu poziciju. Ne mora, nije neophodno ali dosta otkriva. Ako vam je astrologija samospoznaja, go for it jako mnogo cete pronaci u persona chartu!!!!
    Probajte na primeru marsa/venere/merkura da radite, najlakse se razume. Samo poznavaoci astrologije ce moci da prate. Naredni extrahovani textovi su preuzeti sa neta =>

    In the 1990's, a couple of German astrologers came up with an idea that, during the first year of a child's life, each planet was 'activated' for the very first time when the Sun passed over it in the baby's chart...that the moment the planet was transited by the Sun was when the planet was energized in the personality. Peter Orban and Ingrid Zinnel wrote their book in their own language (German), of course, and a small group of astrologers paid attention to it. But for some reason it never caught on in the rest of the world, the book "Personare - Die zwölf Personen im Innern der Seele" ("Persona charts - Twelve personalities within the psyche") was never translated into other languages, most astrologers outside of Germany have not heard of the technique. Astro.com has rekindled an interest in it, but the reason you have not been able to find much about it is because, simply, very few astrologers even know of its existance. But it is pretty much unexplored territory as far as most astrologers are concerned, so you may find it difficult to find someone who can give you more information on how to use the Persona chart other than the above links.

    The basic logic of the charts comes from the realization that, although humans are wholes, the wholes are made up of various parts, and each part has an identity. If you can imagine that a baby has a bunch of potenialties in his/her chart, each one become active for the first time when the Sun transits over it, you can follow that with setting up a chart for each one of those parts.


    But it opens up a whole can of worms to deal with. Here are a just a few questions such a concept raises:
    1. Mercury cannot be more than 28 degrees away from the Sun, but those 28 degrees can be either before or after the Sun. If one child has Mercury after the Sun, his/her Mercury Persona chart will be activated some time within the first 28 days of life. If another child has Mercury before the Sun, however, his/her Mercury Persona chart will not be activated until the child is almost a year old. Will the first child be speaking at a younger age than the second child......will the second child be a late bloomer?
    2. Venus has a similar limitation, albeit it can get as far as 47 degrees either side of the Sun. Will a child with Venus after the Sun develop social skills earlier than the one with Venus before the Sun?
    3. Will the order of activation of each planet tell us something about development of said child? For example, following my Sun, the next three planets in order are Uranus, Venus and Pluto. What was the difference in my development as compared to someone who had Mercury, Mars and Saturn as the first three planets the Sun contacted? Just how different from me would a person be who had the same three planets following the Sun, but in a different order, such as Venus, Pluto, then Uranus?

    As to how to interpret each Persona chart....that takes a leap outside of the box of traditional astrological thinking. With a regular birthchart, everything is centered on the Sun. But with a Persona chart, everything in the chart is related back to the planet in question, not the Sun. Let's take Mercury as an example.
    Mercury is the logical mind, and the ability to communicate, among other things. The Persona chart for Mercury will tell a story about the person's logical mind and how they communicate.....but this will be the central theme of the chart, and everything in the chart will relate back to it.
    The second house of a birthchart is, for example, possessions and what a person finds valuable. The second house of a Mercury Persona chart would have to be possesions of the mind, and what the mind finds valuable. What does the mind possess? Ideas, concepts, words, mental pictures. The seventh house of a birthchart is the house of other people that we have a one-to-one relationship with. The second house of a Mercury Persona chart would have to be how the person deals with the other Mercury's it comes into contact with.....how one's mind deals with the words, thoughts, and ideas of the people one speaks with. Etc.

    Following this process, you would have a lot of work to do to study all of the Persona charts. There would be one for the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, and each one would have 12 houses to deal with.
    If you haven't gotten totally exhausted after all of that, you could then look at the Persona chart for Chiron, or Ceres. Perhaps the North Node and South Node each have their own Persona charts?

    Sounds like you could spend days, even weeks, studying all the charts derived using this method.

    Which may be one reason why it never got very far off the ground when it was first proposed in the 1990's. Who has the time to study that many charts, in that much detail, all for one person?
    Orban and Zinnel have discovered that the horoscope for the moment at which the
    Sun first traverses the position of Mars in the birth chart is an expression of
    the sub-personality corresponding to Mars. Like a solar horoscope, the chart for
    this moment can be interpreted as a “natal chart” for that
    person’s Mars-personality, the Mars persona chart.


    The fascinating thing about
    persona charts is that the basic idea is so convincing – that in passing,
    the Sun awakens the sub-personalities.


    Interpreting Persona Charts

    Here is a very short guide to the interpretation of persona charts, according to
    Orban and Zinnel.

    The Moon Persona Chart
    The feminine in us, our feeling worlds, the inner child, emotional security.
    This tells us a lot about the inner life of a person.

    The Mercury Persona Chart
    Outward mobility, articulation, intelligence, communicating with the outer
    world, dealing with daily necessity.

    The Venus Persona Chart
    Joy in the senses, Eros and sexual pleasure, sensual delight, the way we relate
    to other people, problems we might have to deal with in relationships.

    The Mars Persona Chart
    The inner warrior, self-assertion, how one takes a stand, the kinds of battles
    one fights, with what means one fights them and to what purpose.

    The Jupiter Persona Chart
    The meaning of life, the inner therapist, where we put the
    “religion” in our lives.

    The Saturn Persona Chart
    The law, our mission in life, things fate wants to teach us and things we
    don’t like to learn.

    The Uranus Persona Chart
    Where to let go, where to be free, and where we find the “fool” and
    “jester”.

    The Neptune Persona Chart
    The search for truth, pushing past falsehood to what lies beyond.

    The Pluto Persona Chart
    The battle with demons, with forces that want to keep us from life. Fixed images
    and ideologies.

    When working with persona charts, one should bear the following points in mind:


    1) The most important sub-personality is the “Ruler of 1”. For
    example, anyone with an ascendant in Libra should take a good look at their
    Venus persona chart. The persona chart for the planet which rules the ascendant
    can give us a lot of insight.

    2) The persona chart for the Moon tells us about the feminine energies of a
    person. Just as the natal chart is the Sun-persona chart or Yang-chart, so the
    Moon persona chart is the Yin-chart. In this sense it is the horoscope of the
    anima, the feminine counterpart. Tuning in to her means going in search of her
    story.

    3) The ascendant of a persona chart leads us deeply into the unconscious. It
    shows where the unconscious strives toward the light.

    4) The Sun in a persona chart is regarded as the ego of the sub-personality. Not
    as THE EGO!! Saturn too has an “ego”, a will-to-be. The persona-ego
    is always partly familiar, since the Sun occupies the zodiacal degree of the
    planet involved. However, there is no way in which we can tell which house it
    will be in. This tells us considerably more about how the sub-personality will
    behave.

    5) The midheaven (MC) of the persona-chart shows the fate of the
    sub-personality. At the same time, it represents the quintessence of the path to
    be taken, from the (subconscious) ascendant to the “Light of
    Consciousness” at the midheaven. One cannot tell how far each person will
    go, since this seems to depend on the intensity of the individual effort.
    But if the persona chart for your Mars is actually the chart for your inner warrior, the inner guy who wants to take action, full of drive and ambition, then this Mars persona chart will only deepen this concept.Cancer rising will say that your inner warrior fights for family values, that you are most likely to spend a lot of your energy, drive, ambition in Cancerian settings, such as family, home, your country, your dorm, riverside or lakeside and other similar places. It also tells about a peaceful and non-combative attitude in life, always striving not to harm.Sun's position in the 6th house would indicate that your natal Mars energy is used for service, for fulfilling duties, that you invest a lot of your energy to do things right, almost perfect and so on. In fact, this idea is already present in your traditional natal chart - natal Mars in Virgo. You can expand this kind of interpretation for all other planets incl Chiron.

  12. #12
    Moderator EIIe (avatar)
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    Podrazumevano Re: Persona Chart

    Eh, web, pa to je sa astro.com-a, mogla si samo ostaviti link.

  13. #13
    Primećen član webhanuma (avatar)
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    Citat Original postavio Elle_77 Pogledaj poruku
    Eh, web, pa to je sa astro.com-a, mogla si samo ostaviti link.
    nije sve, nesto je sa foruma koji volEm, a ja imam merkura u ribama... cuvam, citam, brisem, nemam ideju sta je orig.izvor

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