Акај
Elita
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Маните се Тита-кана, држите се Џингиса. 
Mongoli i Džingis Kan
- Začetnik teme Vilajet
- Datum pokretanja
Battlecat
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Ahaa vidis koja je fora , napravi ga na jednu stranu, pa ga onda zategne na suprotnu ...
Samo mi nije bas najjasnije , kako spoji bambus i rog da se to drzi tako dok se nateze i to...
crni lepotan
Elita
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Kako raspevana i vesela vojska, pa to milina da sluzis
hehe, interesantno je da su Mongoli sad pod najvecim uticajem Kineza i Rusa, naroda koje su porobili pre skoro 8 vekova
vidim da se ovde spominjnu arapski konji, ali mongoli su ratovali jasuci mongolske konje
mongolski konj
arapski konj
Dzingis je propisao posebne kodekse za odnos prem konjima (ipak je to bilo glavo mongolsko oruzije), Mongol kad dodje kuci prvo je trebao da obezbedi konju hranu i vodu, pa tek onda da udje u sator i da podmiruje sopstvene potrebe
postojale su stanice sa konjima, gde su kuriri menjali svoje umorne konje i uzjahivali odmorne i picili dalje, tako je vest sa jednog kraja imperije vrlo brzo stizala na drugi kraj
ipak je to bila prava imperija (nije bilo samo oruk aj da sprzimo neke sabane) i to vrlo dobro organizovana
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NickFreak
Elita
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Његове чувене речи пошто су Монголи били разједињени пре њега у клановима који су ратовали међусобно"Довешћу Монголе у ред макар морао пола да их побијем"!
Battlecat
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Vidis ovi Mongolski su nekako kratkonogasti, ne znam da li su bili tako i pre kad su ovi delili pljuske po svetu Ako je tako ne znam kako su mogli da beže ovim normalnim konjima Zabavljao sam se pre sa jednom curom što čuva i uzgaja konje i tu sam naučio da su pre ovi evropski valjda bili jaki pa su ukrštanjem postali ovako vižljasti i slabi kao trkački. E sad mi samo nije jasno kako su ovi patuljasti bili superiorniji od ovih evropskih koji su mašine. ili možda nije stvar u konjima
Ako je tako ne znam kako su mogli da beže ovim normalnim konjima Zabavljao sam se pre sa jednom curom što čuva i uzgaja konje i tu sam naučio da su pre ovi evropski valjda bili jaki pa su ukrštanjem postali ovako vižljasti i slabi kao trkački. E sad mi samo nije jasno kako su ovi patuljasti bili superiorniji od ovih evropskih koji su mašine. ili možda nije stvar u konjima
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NickFreak
Elita
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Vidis ovi Mongolski su nekako kratkonogasti, ne znam da li su bili tako i pre kad su ovi delili pljuske po svetu
Svi konjicki narodi su bili niski i nekad zdepasti , svakako laki i zbog toga su bili brzi na konjima za razliku od evropljana.
NickFreak
Elita
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The Cumans or Kumans are described as a nomadic Turkic people whom the Russians called Polovtsi (the word in old Slavonic for “pale yellowish”). They are identified with the Western branch of the Kipchaks, a name given to the Kumans by the Arabs. Interestingly enough the Kipchaks are mentioned in Chinese manuscripts from the 300s BC and Arab writings from 820s AD and 950s AD. From various documents in which these tribes are mentioned (including the Kimaks who ruled over several tribes including Kipchaks) it is believed they first were found in what is today western Kazakhstan in the steppes by the Aral Sea. (That area also included the Pechenegs who moved west earlier, the Bashkir (who can still be found there) and the Oguz. According to Dmitriy V. Ryaboy, it was political circumstances that caused the Kumans to separate from the Kimaks and moved west. By the 11th Century they had settled in the steppes near and between the Volga, Don and Donets Rivers. Maps of Eurasia for 1000 A.D. place them there.
According to Ryaboy, the Kumans were divided into hordes, each led by a khan. Horde society was divided into smaller units that traveled together. These units had several social classes: leaders, warriors, freemen and slaves. A Khan’s name usually ended with -kan, or -niak. Names of leaders of the smaller units typically had names ending typically with -opa, -oba or -epa.
According to writings by the Arabs the Kumans/Kipchaks were pagans who practiced astrology and stone magic. By the 900s a small few became followers of Islam. By 1200 A.D. they had pushed west and south to extend all the way across the top of the Black Sea to the Danube River. Today those areas are now called Southern Ukraine, Moldova, Wallachia and Transylvania. They waged war against the Byzantines, the Hungarians and the Kievan Rus. The Kumans survived the initial Mongol incursions of the 1230s A.D. only to ultimately fall to them in 1242. They did however survive to establish the principality of Wallachia in present day Romania on the north side of the Danube river. Wallachia’s earliest rulers were Kumani. The Kumans had joined in the Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion of 1185/1186 and must have become leaders in the society at that time. By the early 1300s, Basarab I, son of Tihomir, the Kumani warlord of Wallachia obtained independence for the region from Hungary.
The Russians preserved stories of their struggles with the Kumans in several epic tales: The Battle of the Stugna River, The Battle of the Kalka River, and the Tale of Igor'’s Campaign. A timeline of the R
With the Mongol incursion of 1242, many Kumans fled West and North, into the mountainous regions, into Hungary, Bulgaria and elsewhere. This was during the reign of Ogodei (1229-41) Ghengis' sucessor and third son. These campaigns swept across the steppes to Russian Moscow and as far north as Yaroslavl' in 1238, then down into the Caucasus. By 1240, the Mongols travelled up and over to Kiev, Krakow and Galich in Galicia, then down into Hungary and Serbia. In 1242 they swept across Bulgaria to engage the Kumans in the region stretching from the Danube to the Dnieper Rivers. Those Kumans that remained in the Volga region and survived the Mongol incursion ultimately joined the khanate of the Golden Horde and eventually became Muslim. The Kumans in the West became Christian and an area that included Romania and Moldova held the name of Diocese of the Kumans until 1523.
According to Wikipedia, Kumani words appear in place names in the Balkans and elsewhere: in the Macedonian city of Kumanovo, the Moldavian city of Comanesti, and in Dobruja (Black Sea coastal area south of the Danube) at the city of Comana. Several counties of Hungary include the root “kun” (which Wikipedia asserts is the Cuman name root) in their names such as Bacs-Kiskun and Jasz-Nagykun-Szolnok and in town names such as Kiskunhalas and Kiskunszentmiklos. There is a town in the Polish Carpathians named Komanzca (just north of the old Lupkow Pass) and it is believed that the origin of the name is Kumani.
The Kumans spoke a Turkic language most similar to the modern Crimean Tartar language. The language was codified in medieval era texts such as the Codex Cumanicus, which is believed to be a linguistic manual for the use of Catholic missionaries to the Kipchaks.
Marco Polo also mentions the Kumans in his writings. He describes a region that Alexander the Great had tried to conquer without success. Marco Polo stated that historical accounts say that the Tartars lived there, but according to him the region was inhabited by the Kumans “with a mixture of other nations.” One of the tales he relayed was that their kings in ancient times were known because of the mark present from birth, of an eagle on the right shoulder Alexander had tried to gain access to this region through a narrow pass that extends for four miles along the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus mountains. Because the pass could easily be defended by a small number of warriors he was readily defeated and unable to advance. As a result, Alexander is said to have built a fortress and a gate of iron to "keep out" those Northern Warriors. Derbent, Russia is the town in the area that most closely fits the description provided. By Marco Polo's time the people were described as Eastern Christians, “bold sailors, expert archers and fair combatants in battle.” Their province had many towns and castles; they produced silk and cloth of silk interwoven with gold.
According to Ryaboy, the Kumans were divided into hordes, each led by a khan. Horde society was divided into smaller units that traveled together. These units had several social classes: leaders, warriors, freemen and slaves. A Khan’s name usually ended with -kan, or -niak. Names of leaders of the smaller units typically had names ending typically with -opa, -oba or -epa.
According to writings by the Arabs the Kumans/Kipchaks were pagans who practiced astrology and stone magic. By the 900s a small few became followers of Islam. By 1200 A.D. they had pushed west and south to extend all the way across the top of the Black Sea to the Danube River. Today those areas are now called Southern Ukraine, Moldova, Wallachia and Transylvania. They waged war against the Byzantines, the Hungarians and the Kievan Rus. The Kumans survived the initial Mongol incursions of the 1230s A.D. only to ultimately fall to them in 1242. They did however survive to establish the principality of Wallachia in present day Romania on the north side of the Danube river. Wallachia’s earliest rulers were Kumani. The Kumans had joined in the Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion of 1185/1186 and must have become leaders in the society at that time. By the early 1300s, Basarab I, son of Tihomir, the Kumani warlord of Wallachia obtained independence for the region from Hungary.
The Russians preserved stories of their struggles with the Kumans in several epic tales: The Battle of the Stugna River, The Battle of the Kalka River, and the Tale of Igor'’s Campaign. A timeline of the R
With the Mongol incursion of 1242, many Kumans fled West and North, into the mountainous regions, into Hungary, Bulgaria and elsewhere. This was during the reign of Ogodei (1229-41) Ghengis' sucessor and third son. These campaigns swept across the steppes to Russian Moscow and as far north as Yaroslavl' in 1238, then down into the Caucasus. By 1240, the Mongols travelled up and over to Kiev, Krakow and Galich in Galicia, then down into Hungary and Serbia. In 1242 they swept across Bulgaria to engage the Kumans in the region stretching from the Danube to the Dnieper Rivers. Those Kumans that remained in the Volga region and survived the Mongol incursion ultimately joined the khanate of the Golden Horde and eventually became Muslim. The Kumans in the West became Christian and an area that included Romania and Moldova held the name of Diocese of the Kumans until 1523.
According to Wikipedia, Kumani words appear in place names in the Balkans and elsewhere: in the Macedonian city of Kumanovo, the Moldavian city of Comanesti, and in Dobruja (Black Sea coastal area south of the Danube) at the city of Comana. Several counties of Hungary include the root “kun” (which Wikipedia asserts is the Cuman name root) in their names such as Bacs-Kiskun and Jasz-Nagykun-Szolnok and in town names such as Kiskunhalas and Kiskunszentmiklos. There is a town in the Polish Carpathians named Komanzca (just north of the old Lupkow Pass) and it is believed that the origin of the name is Kumani.
The Kumans spoke a Turkic language most similar to the modern Crimean Tartar language. The language was codified in medieval era texts such as the Codex Cumanicus, which is believed to be a linguistic manual for the use of Catholic missionaries to the Kipchaks.
Marco Polo also mentions the Kumans in his writings. He describes a region that Alexander the Great had tried to conquer without success. Marco Polo stated that historical accounts say that the Tartars lived there, but according to him the region was inhabited by the Kumans “with a mixture of other nations.” One of the tales he relayed was that their kings in ancient times were known because of the mark present from birth, of an eagle on the right shoulder Alexander had tried to gain access to this region through a narrow pass that extends for four miles along the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus mountains. Because the pass could easily be defended by a small number of warriors he was readily defeated and unable to advance. As a result, Alexander is said to have built a fortress and a gate of iron to "keep out" those Northern Warriors. Derbent, Russia is the town in the area that most closely fits the description provided. By Marco Polo's time the people were described as Eastern Christians, “bold sailors, expert archers and fair combatants in battle.” Their province had many towns and castles; they produced silk and cloth of silk interwoven with gold.
NickFreak
Elita
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- 15.992
There are probably many more historical records on the Kumans in the East, but we English speakers will have to wait for translations. Already with the fall of the Iron Curtain so much more has become known in the West than ever before. Roman Zakharii of Berezhany has translated from the Russian portions of “"Sketches on the History of Galician – Volhynian Rus"” by V.T. Pashuto that discusses the relations between Galicia and the various Hordes of the 13th century. His translation mentions that in the 1280s, NogayKan provided Leo of Galicia military assistance including troops under the command of the warlord Konchak who was probably of Cuman origin. Interestingly enough a Ukrainian map of the Duchy of Galicia, shows it extending all the way from the source waters of the Pripet River down to the mouth of the Dniester and Prut rivers at the Black Sea. Unfortunately there is no date on the map.
Erika Bogacsi-Szabo did a study of mitochondrial DNA from excavated early Kuman populations and compared them with modern Hungarians from a variety of rural locations in Hungary. She found that "while still possessing a Central Asian steppe culture, the Cumanians received a large admixture of maternal genes from more westerly populations before arriving in Hungary. A similar dilution of genetic, but not cultural, factors may have accompanied the settlement of other Asian nomads in Europe. "
Bogacsi-Szabo, Erika "Mitochondrial DNA of Ancient Cumanians: Culturally Asian Steppe Nomadic Immigrants with Substantially More Western Eurasian Mitochondrial DNA Lineages" Human Biology - Vol. 77(5): 639-66(October 2005).
Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th Edition 2005
DK Atlas of World History, Black J. gen. editor, Dorling Kindersley Publishing Inc. (New York 2000)
Ryaboy, Dmitriy V., The origins of the Polovtsy, www.redkaganate.org/tribelist/polovtsi.shtml
Sketches on the History of Galician-Volhynian Rus by V.T. Pashuto (1950) Translation by Roman Zakharii in 2002, www.personal.ceu.hu/students/97/Roman_Zakharii/gal.htm
The Travels of Marco Polo, by Marco Polo, revised from Marsden’'s Translation. Komroff, Manuel, ed.
Erika Bogacsi-Szabo did a study of mitochondrial DNA from excavated early Kuman populations and compared them with modern Hungarians from a variety of rural locations in Hungary. She found that "while still possessing a Central Asian steppe culture, the Cumanians received a large admixture of maternal genes from more westerly populations before arriving in Hungary. A similar dilution of genetic, but not cultural, factors may have accompanied the settlement of other Asian nomads in Europe. "
Bogacsi-Szabo, Erika "Mitochondrial DNA of Ancient Cumanians: Culturally Asian Steppe Nomadic Immigrants with Substantially More Western Eurasian Mitochondrial DNA Lineages" Human Biology - Vol. 77(5): 639-66(October 2005).
Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th Edition 2005
DK Atlas of World History, Black J. gen. editor, Dorling Kindersley Publishing Inc. (New York 2000)
Ryaboy, Dmitriy V., The origins of the Polovtsy, www.redkaganate.org/tribelist/polovtsi.shtml
Sketches on the History of Galician-Volhynian Rus by V.T. Pashuto (1950) Translation by Roman Zakharii in 2002, www.personal.ceu.hu/students/97/Roman_Zakharii/gal.htm
The Travels of Marco Polo, by Marco Polo, revised from Marsden’'s Translation. Komroff, Manuel, ed.
Battlecat
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ljuta_mamba
Iskusan
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Ne ne, mislio sam na konje
pa znas buraz kako izgleda konj stajerac....ko svarceneger sirok
a noge kratke i debele,sa nekom kosicom preko kopita,to je bio evropski konj...bar u nemackoj
Battlecat
Iskusan
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pa znas buraz kako izgleda konj stajerac....ko svarceneger sirok
Haha pa jeste , nego mi se cini da su manji od njega. Mislim meni je normalan konj nekako
Ali ovi mongolski su ko mule nesto cudno izgledaju, a sumnjam da se promenilo nesto toliko kod njih.
NickFreak
Elita
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- 15.992
Shvarn was married to the sister of Lithuania duke Voyshelk (son of Mindaugas: 1236-1263) and Voyshelk had a suport from him. In the beginning Voyshelk and Shvarn ruled together in Lithuania, while Shvarn possesed the Black Rus' lands. When Lithuanian lands were finally "safe", Voyshelk passed them on to Shvarn and went to a monastery himself. For this "kindness" duke Leo killed Voyshelk in a Volhynian monastery (in Volodymyr). Shvran did not rule long in Lithuania and after he died Traidenis became a great duke of Lithuania. The followong relations of Volhynian dukes with Lithuania were peaceful, beacuse Tatar-Mongol invasions into Lithuania (1275, 1277) organized by Leo of Galicia hindered this peace. Besides that Traidenis attempted to take a better control over the Black Rus' settling Prussians there (who were escaping from the advancement of German Crusaders). Duke of Volodymyr was against thsi but could not do anything. Clash between Volodymyr of Volhynia (son of Vasylko) with Sirputiy (the brother of Traidenis) resulted in taking of Turiysk by Volodymyr and they settled temporary peace with Traidenis.
The relations of Galician duke Leo with Lithuanian duke Traidenis first were quite friendly but then Traidenis took over Dorohychyn from Leo. Dorohychyn (now Drohiczyn in Poland) was a major trade center on the route from Lviv (Leopolis) to Torun and the Baltics. Peace was broken. Using his relatiosn with the Golden Horde, duke Leo sent messangers to Mengu-Timur, who sent him troops under the command of Yagurchyn (Yagurain) and khan ordered that all trans-Dnieper dukes (Roman, Oleh of Bryansk, Gleb of Smolensk, Pinsk and Turov dukes) and also Mstislav of Lutsk and Volodymyr of Volodymyr to go all with Leo. Leo took over control over Dorohoczyn and even occupied Novogorodok.
Above: Galician Duchy atist greatest period. Click to enlarge. Map in Ukrainian. Black Sea and Danube mouth at the right bottom corner. Poland si at upper left corner. Lithuania from the north. Hungary from south east and Kyiv (Kiev) Duchy to the east.
Relations of Leo of Galicia with khan Telebuga of Golden Horde and khan Nogay.
Galician Tatar relations were quite complicated. It is possible to think that Tatars-Mongols recognized Leo (Lev, son of Daniel of Halych) as a great ruler of Halych -Volhyn lands'. South esat Ukraine' suffered not only because it was under the rule of Golden Horde but it also experienced pressure from the horde of Nogay, who had created his center at the northern coast of the Black Sea. Nogay controlled a greater part of Ukrainian lowlands, including Galician lowlands (Ponyzzya).
After death of Mengu Timur (1280-1282), a double rule was established in Horde, which lasted until 1291. Khan Telebuga (the successor of Mengu-Timur) who took the Golden horde trone in 1287-1288, continued hostilies and fight against Nogay. It is possible to guess that presence of two centers of Tatar-Mongol rule caused two orientatiosn among local dukes. For example duke Leo maintained realatiosn with Nogay and with Mengu-Timur, while for duke of Vladimir, Mengu-Timur was once "great king" while Nogay was "cursed and unlawful".
Above: Coin, yarmak of khan Mengu - Timur (1266-1280). From Odesa Museum of Numismatics.
After the next complaint (regarding Lithuania) arrived from Rus' kings not only to the Golden Horde but also to Nogay, he sent (around 1277) then his ambassodors "with letters" to Leo, Mstislav and Vladimir (such an order of listing dukes, was copied probably by Vladimir chronichle writer from khan's letter) saying "You always complain to me about Lithuania, thus I give you the army and a warlord Mamyshey with it, go with them!". Though, this raid was not successfull for Vladimir duke (Tatars fought separately around Novogorodok) and secondly duke Mstislav of Lutsk (in Volhynia) and George (or Yuri, son of Leo) together with Kholm (todays Chelm) warlord Tyuima fought at Gorodno (Hrodna) not with much luck.
We can see that Leo of Galicia was quite connected to Nogay, also from the next fact: After the death of duke Boleslaw (of Smaller Poland), duke Leo attempted to establish himself at Cracow throne or at least to occupy the town son the Vkrayina (= borderland, that is west of river Vepr / Wieprz) and in this attempt Leo asked for help from Nogay (and not from Golden Horde): Leo himself went to the "cursed and unlawful" Nogay to ask for help and khan Nogay gave him assistance and troops under the command of warlards Konchak (Konçak, probably from Cumans), Kuzey and Kubatan.
Also at this case, Khan Nogay ordered south eastern dukes to go on the raid on Cracow together with Leo. Leo was glad to advance with Tatars, while duke Mstislav (of Volhynia), duke Vladimir (of Vladimir) and his son Daniel (who died soon) went unwillingly being forced by Tatars. And during military actions, duke Vladimir delibirately stood "on the back". Since duke Leo did not succeed to take Cracow, Vladimir's chronichle-writer noted with gladness "that Galician duke returned home with great dishonour".
The growth of fight and tension between the Golden Horde khan Telebuga and Nogay, brought new troubles for Galicia and whole of south east Rus'. Sometimes, both khanes acted together, so it was during their raid on Hungary (1285). As a matter of rule, Galician and Rus' dukes were ordered to go on the raid together with them as well (Leo of Galicia and Mstislav of Volhynia departed themselves but duke Vladimir sent his army under the command of George (Yuri, son of Leo).
Engraving, 18th century. Depicting old Halych
.
View over Halych (Halicz in Polish). Engraving from 18th century.
At this time, Polish duke Boleslaw invaded Galician lands (because of this duke Leo was freed from taking part in the raid after they entered Hungary). According to the Vladimir's chronchler, the raid of Tatar-Mongols on Hungary ended with no luck: khan Nogay turned going east to Brasov and khan Telebuga went "through the mountain". Nothing is said about Nogay further but it is said the second one got lost in the Carpathians and "left with shame".
The next raid of Tatars khans clearly showed disagreements and tensiosn between them. In 1286 khan Telebuga decided to oragnize the raid on Poland, and probably together with Nogay. For this purpose, khan Telebuga arrived with the armies to Nogay's headquarters but there was "a great disagreement between them" and in the end khan Telebuga moved against Poland himself. Telebuga gave order to be accompnied in the raid by all Galician- Volhynian and trans-Dnieper dukes. Thsi time, his way laid through Volhynia. At the river Horyn (Goryn), khan Telebuga was met with presents by duke Mstislav of Volhnynia. At Peremyl (now a small town on the south east of Volyn region in Western Ukraine) on the river Lypa Telebuga was greeted with presents by Vladimir (son of Vasylko) and at Buzhkovychi (today a village further east from Peremyl) khan was welcomed by Leo (son of Daniel) of Galicia.
Khan Telebuga left part of his troops in Volodymyr (then capital of Volhynian principality) and moved against Poland together with Rus' regiments. Note that Tatars-Mongols had plundered Volhynian land by that. Tatar-Rus' troops were advancing towards Cracow via Sandomyr (Sandomierz) and Zavykhost (Zawichost). But here was a surprise! Khan Telebuga learned "that Nogay went ahead of him to Cracow" and had to return back plundering Lviv lands on the way.
Khan Nogay had led his troops to Cracow also but by a different root - through western Galicia and Peremyshl (Przemysl). Because of this hatred between khans Telebuga and Nogay became even greater, being afraid of each other.
The relations of Galician duke Leo with Lithuanian duke Traidenis first were quite friendly but then Traidenis took over Dorohychyn from Leo. Dorohychyn (now Drohiczyn in Poland) was a major trade center on the route from Lviv (Leopolis) to Torun and the Baltics. Peace was broken. Using his relatiosn with the Golden Horde, duke Leo sent messangers to Mengu-Timur, who sent him troops under the command of Yagurchyn (Yagurain) and khan ordered that all trans-Dnieper dukes (Roman, Oleh of Bryansk, Gleb of Smolensk, Pinsk and Turov dukes) and also Mstislav of Lutsk and Volodymyr of Volodymyr to go all with Leo. Leo took over control over Dorohoczyn and even occupied Novogorodok.
Above: Galician Duchy atist greatest period. Click to enlarge. Map in Ukrainian. Black Sea and Danube mouth at the right bottom corner. Poland si at upper left corner. Lithuania from the north. Hungary from south east and Kyiv (Kiev) Duchy to the east.
Relations of Leo of Galicia with khan Telebuga of Golden Horde and khan Nogay.
Galician Tatar relations were quite complicated. It is possible to think that Tatars-Mongols recognized Leo (Lev, son of Daniel of Halych) as a great ruler of Halych -Volhyn lands'. South esat Ukraine' suffered not only because it was under the rule of Golden Horde but it also experienced pressure from the horde of Nogay, who had created his center at the northern coast of the Black Sea. Nogay controlled a greater part of Ukrainian lowlands, including Galician lowlands (Ponyzzya).
After death of Mengu Timur (1280-1282), a double rule was established in Horde, which lasted until 1291. Khan Telebuga (the successor of Mengu-Timur) who took the Golden horde trone in 1287-1288, continued hostilies and fight against Nogay. It is possible to guess that presence of two centers of Tatar-Mongol rule caused two orientatiosn among local dukes. For example duke Leo maintained realatiosn with Nogay and with Mengu-Timur, while for duke of Vladimir, Mengu-Timur was once "great king" while Nogay was "cursed and unlawful".
Above: Coin, yarmak of khan Mengu - Timur (1266-1280). From Odesa Museum of Numismatics.
After the next complaint (regarding Lithuania) arrived from Rus' kings not only to the Golden Horde but also to Nogay, he sent (around 1277) then his ambassodors "with letters" to Leo, Mstislav and Vladimir (such an order of listing dukes, was copied probably by Vladimir chronichle writer from khan's letter) saying "You always complain to me about Lithuania, thus I give you the army and a warlord Mamyshey with it, go with them!". Though, this raid was not successfull for Vladimir duke (Tatars fought separately around Novogorodok) and secondly duke Mstislav of Lutsk (in Volhynia) and George (or Yuri, son of Leo) together with Kholm (todays Chelm) warlord Tyuima fought at Gorodno (Hrodna) not with much luck.
We can see that Leo of Galicia was quite connected to Nogay, also from the next fact: After the death of duke Boleslaw (of Smaller Poland), duke Leo attempted to establish himself at Cracow throne or at least to occupy the town son the Vkrayina (= borderland, that is west of river Vepr / Wieprz) and in this attempt Leo asked for help from Nogay (and not from Golden Horde): Leo himself went to the "cursed and unlawful" Nogay to ask for help and khan Nogay gave him assistance and troops under the command of warlards Konchak (Konçak, probably from Cumans), Kuzey and Kubatan.
Also at this case, Khan Nogay ordered south eastern dukes to go on the raid on Cracow together with Leo. Leo was glad to advance with Tatars, while duke Mstislav (of Volhynia), duke Vladimir (of Vladimir) and his son Daniel (who died soon) went unwillingly being forced by Tatars. And during military actions, duke Vladimir delibirately stood "on the back". Since duke Leo did not succeed to take Cracow, Vladimir's chronichle-writer noted with gladness "that Galician duke returned home with great dishonour".
The growth of fight and tension between the Golden Horde khan Telebuga and Nogay, brought new troubles for Galicia and whole of south east Rus'. Sometimes, both khanes acted together, so it was during their raid on Hungary (1285). As a matter of rule, Galician and Rus' dukes were ordered to go on the raid together with them as well (Leo of Galicia and Mstislav of Volhynia departed themselves but duke Vladimir sent his army under the command of George (Yuri, son of Leo).
Engraving, 18th century. Depicting old Halych
.View over Halych (Halicz in Polish). Engraving from 18th century.
At this time, Polish duke Boleslaw invaded Galician lands (because of this duke Leo was freed from taking part in the raid after they entered Hungary). According to the Vladimir's chronchler, the raid of Tatar-Mongols on Hungary ended with no luck: khan Nogay turned going east to Brasov and khan Telebuga went "through the mountain". Nothing is said about Nogay further but it is said the second one got lost in the Carpathians and "left with shame".
The next raid of Tatars khans clearly showed disagreements and tensiosn between them. In 1286 khan Telebuga decided to oragnize the raid on Poland, and probably together with Nogay. For this purpose, khan Telebuga arrived with the armies to Nogay's headquarters but there was "a great disagreement between them" and in the end khan Telebuga moved against Poland himself. Telebuga gave order to be accompnied in the raid by all Galician- Volhynian and trans-Dnieper dukes. Thsi time, his way laid through Volhynia. At the river Horyn (Goryn), khan Telebuga was met with presents by duke Mstislav of Volhnynia. At Peremyl (now a small town on the south east of Volyn region in Western Ukraine) on the river Lypa Telebuga was greeted with presents by Vladimir (son of Vasylko) and at Buzhkovychi (today a village further east from Peremyl) khan was welcomed by Leo (son of Daniel) of Galicia.
Khan Telebuga left part of his troops in Volodymyr (then capital of Volhynian principality) and moved against Poland together with Rus' regiments. Note that Tatars-Mongols had plundered Volhynian land by that. Tatar-Rus' troops were advancing towards Cracow via Sandomyr (Sandomierz) and Zavykhost (Zawichost). But here was a surprise! Khan Telebuga learned "that Nogay went ahead of him to Cracow" and had to return back plundering Lviv lands on the way.
Khan Nogay had led his troops to Cracow also but by a different root - through western Galicia and Peremyshl (Przemysl). Because of this hatred between khans Telebuga and Nogay became even greater, being afraid of each other.
NickFreak
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Plan of medieval Halych (14 - 17th centuries)
The next year (1287), there was one more raid of khan Telebuga onto Poland. Thsi time together with Alguy (son of Mengu-Timur). How it went we do not know. We know only that on the way back, Telebuga being accompanied by dukes Leo and Mstislav, was going via Lviv. Namely at this point duke Vladimir using the presence of mighty Telebuga and Alguy, decided to pass his throne to to Mstislav (son of Danylo). Duke Leo attempted to break this act later, taking into consideration existance of "his friend" khan Nogay, but Mstislav forced him withdraw, explaining that power transfer was made and agreed with the rulers of Golden Horde and their councellors, frightening to complain to the Golden Horde.
The facst listed above, prove that advancement of new Tatar Mongol hordes of Burunday (1257) onto Galicia and south east Rus', discovered the period of already exising Tatar-Monghol rule there with the baskak system and a regular collection of "tatarshchyna" (tatardom).
Despite of this, Galicia and other Rus' principalities remained strong enough in order to play a significant role in East European politics which encompassed Poland, Hungary, Czechia and German lands. Here the first place belonged to Galician principality. Regretfully, Vladimir's chronichle speaks very little about this. Duke of Vladimir and his court had external political interests (besides Lithuania), mainly in Mazovia (Mazowsze) maintaining strong union with Mazovian dukes.
The politics of duke Leo of Galicia was much broader and much more significant than of his partners in Volhynia. Being situated between Poland and Hungary, Galician and Volhynian dukes could last being relatively independent only by manuevring between Tatar forces and Polish - Hungarian neighbours. The external politics of Galician duke Leo was quite definite and clear but in his plans he very likely had to have the correspondent sanctions from the khan of Golden Horde. He was acting as a vassal of the Golden Horde, using Tatar help in his external political interests (Galician raids on Lithuania 1275, 1277 and raid on Poland 1280). Generally Galician-Volyn Rus was isolated from the rest of Rus' lands (though Leo married his son George / Yuri to the daughter of Yaroslav of Tver). Russian historians claim that isolation was a reason of growing weakness of Galician-Volhynian Rus'.
External poltics of Galician duke was based first on the union with Hungary and next with Czechs. In spring 1270, Hungarian king Bela IV died and his successor Stefan V broke peace with king Pshemysl II of Czechia and war started between them in 1270. In the act of peace agreement (July 1271) among the allies of Hungary are listed: Leo of Galicia, Mstislav of Volhynia and Vasylko (son of Vasylko). As wee see the order of listing of Rus dukes in foreign sources is nearly the same as in Rus' source.
Furthermore, during the last war between Czech king Pshemysl (Premysl Ottokar II) with Austrian king Rudolf of Habsburgs, Galician and Nad Volhynian dukes were on Czech side. But Rudolf the Habsburg took his own measures to attract duke Leo to the union. He sent his trusted Fransiscan Henrich to the Polish dukes, who was entrusted to establish connection with Rus' court since Henrich (through his grandfather Konrad of mazovia) had a family connection to Rus' dukes and hoped for success of his mission. Seems like he achieved this success since Austrian sources mention "chüning Lee von Ruessen" among the allies of Rudolf. Among his troops we find Bruteni (that is Ruteni) being listed among "universae barbarae nationes" along with Hungarians.
The relations of Galicia with Czechia imroved when Vaclav became a Czech king (since 1278). At this time, duke Leo acted separately from Hungary and had a different attitude towards Poland. After the death of Boleslav the Shy (Boleslwa Wstydliwy) Leo was one of the candidates for the duke's throne of Smaller Poland. He organized a raid onto Poland using help of khan Nogay and Volhynian dukes but his troops cwent through Zawychost - Sandomierz reaching Kropiwnica but did reach the goal.
However after this misfortune, Galicain duke continued to fight with new duke of Cracow - Leszko the Black (died in 1288) over the control of eastern Polish lands. Later Leo gave armed support to the second candidate for Cracocian throne, namely Boleslaw Semantowicz. But Boleslaw did not manage to establish himself well on the throne and after a while resigned.
Leo did not remain to fight Henrich IV, shifting his fight to Silesia. Leo's Galician troops advanced towards Wroclaw, reached Nysa and Grotkow, invaded Ratibor (Raciborz) and after having plundered lands of Henrich IV, Leo sent captives and great booty back home.
Contemporaries regarded Galician duke Leo as a great state leader. In Vladimir chronichle he is said to be "a proud and intelligent, brave and strong in army, since he showed much of braveness in many battles". His name was known in Europe of those times. Not by accident, in anonymical treatese"Flos historiarum Terrae Orienties" (Source of history of land of the East, from 1308, which is being kept in French National Library) it is said that "Ruthenia (Galician Rus') is a huge land (terra permaxima) bordering with Bulgaria and Greece...this land is vassal of Tatars now and its dux Leo"
We should note the high level of culture in south eastern Rus' in 13th century, clearly reflected in chronichle writing. Chronichle of Cyryll, Chronichle of Ivan, chronichles of Vasylko and of Volodymyr testify about the progress in chronichle writing in many feudal centers of south eastern Rus, such as Khom (Chelm), Volodymyr (Vladimir), Halych (Galich), Kiev, Novogorodok and others.
Above: Two photos of the Nativity Church in Halych (Galich) which dates from the reign of Leo / Lev from 13th century
crni lepotan
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Vidis ovi Mongolski su nekako kratkonogasti, ne znam da li su bili tako i pre kad su ovi delili pljuske po svetu
evropski konji su nosili daleko vise tereta nego mongolski konji i zato su izmedju ostalog bili neokretniji od mongolskih
Moračanin
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Ali mi nije nikako jasno, kako su Mongoli mogli sa tim malim konjima tako brzo prelaziti takve prostore a usput još i ratovati.
Recimo da su mogli prosječno dnevno na konju sa odmaranjem i hranjenjem preći neđe oko 30km/dan.
Sad izračunajte, koliko bi trebalo vremena, da recimo dođe od Mongolije do Morače a to je recimo grubo nekih 10.000km najmanje.
A tada nije bilo ceste ni puteva.
Pa samo kroz dvije Morače bi zalutao i izgubio vezu s mozgom.
korkanj
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Ha hahahahaa jel to teorija osnovana na istorijskom znanju i dokazu da su mongoli STEPSKI narod (pa bi se izgubili u sumama i brdima) samo pitam
pozdrav
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Ha hahahahaa jel to teorija osnovana na istorijskom znanju i dokazu da su mongoli STEPSKI narod (pa bi se izgubili u sumama i brdima) samo pitam
pozdrav
Jok,
to je iz vlastitog iskustva. Ko nezna prostor i teren, ta iz Donje u Gornji Moraču nebi stigao nikad. Prije bi se oburvao neđe u provaliju.
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Ok,pa kako onda objasnjavas mongole??? kako su se oni orentisali ??? a da se pri tome nisu survali ili kako ti rece oburvao
u neku provaliju.Znas sta, ako je tako, ja tamo ne bih posao ni trezan a kamo li pijan ;0
pozdrav
Bajo Pivljanin
Domaćin
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Иначе, један огранак Монгола - Калмици, се у извесном броју (преко 450) настанио у Србији 1920., а највећи део у Београду (око 300), где су живели до 1944. када су опет побегли од Совјета, овај пут за Немачку, а одатле у САД.
Калмици при изградњи београдског храма
Портрет једног Калмика
Београдски Калмици населили су се у Мали Мокри Луг, а локално становништво их је звало "Кинези". Саградили су и један будистички храм 1929. г., први у Европи. У "Водичу кроз Београд", објављеном 1930. г. постоји одредница о храму, а годину дана касније улица у којој се храм налазио добија ново име: Будистичка улица (данас Будванска).
Локација њихове колоније
У остваривању верхских слобода, овом народу помогла је и СПЦ, упутивши молбу надлежном министартву да им упути бар некакву финансијску помоћ. Сем СПЦ, помоћ је стигла и од локалног бизнисмена Милоша Јаћимовића, који је донирао земљу на којој је храм изграђен. Његов син Чедомир дао је испомоћ у виду грађевинског материјала, а извесну новчану помоћ пружили су и чланови династије Карађођевић.
За време свог боравка у Србији, Калмици су се бавили и научном делатношћу, и један од најпознатијих интелектуалаца њихове емиграције, др. Ерењен Хара-Даван је у Београду 1929. г. издао књигу имена "Џингис Кан као војсковођа, и његово наслеђе"
Због сличности српског и руског језика, који им је био познат, калмичка деца су полагала српске основне школе, које је, у периоду до почетка Другог светског рата у Југославији, завршило преко 100 њихове деце.
Нешто више детаља на:
Калмици при изградњи београдског храма
Портрет једног Калмика
Београдски Калмици населили су се у Мали Мокри Луг, а локално становништво их је звало "Кинези". Саградили су и један будистички храм 1929. г., први у Европи. У "Водичу кроз Београд", објављеном 1930. г. постоји одредница о храму, а годину дана касније улица у којој се храм налазио добија ново име: Будистичка улица (данас Будванска).
Локација њихове колоније
У остваривању верхских слобода, овом народу помогла је и СПЦ, упутивши молбу надлежном министартву да им упути бар некакву финансијску помоћ. Сем СПЦ, помоћ је стигла и од локалног бизнисмена Милоша Јаћимовића, који је донирао земљу на којој је храм изграђен. Његов син Чедомир дао је испомоћ у виду грађевинског материјала, а извесну новчану помоћ пружили су и чланови династије Карађођевић.
За време свог боравка у Србији, Калмици су се бавили и научном делатношћу, и један од најпознатијих интелектуалаца њихове емиграције, др. Ерењен Хара-Даван је у Београду 1929. г. издао књигу имена "Џингис Кан као војсковођа, и његово наслеђе"
Због сличности српског и руског језика, који им је био познат, калмичка деца су полагала српске основне школе, које је, у периоду до почетка Другог светског рата у Југославији, завршило преко 100 њихове деце.
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Специальный корреспондент
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Специальный корреспондент
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Ok,pa kako onda objasnjavas mongole??? kako su se oni orentisali ??? a da se pri tome nisu survali ili kako ti rece oburvao
;0
Eto kako,
Koji je god Mongol tamo pokušao da dođe, oburvao se dolje u Moraču.
Zato u Morači nema nikoga sa onim širokim nosom i očima ka da je limun pojeo.
A ti slobodno možeš doći, jer svima koji su pozvani mi pokažemo siguran put i nema onda kotrljanja dolje u Moraču.
Evo ti dokaz, da tuda nepozvan leti u provaliju i posle ga samo vrane mogu naći.
A ovuda mi trčimo ka po marakani
A tu smo među visibabama
http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/original/551250.jpg
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ljuta_mamba
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hej Moracanin...jel se meni ono cini ili ovce pasu pod rucnom na onoj slici
pazi..moja neka teorija je,da su kao sto je i makedonski stigao do indije,ili persijanci do atine i sta ti ja znam ko vec gde sve...isli samo glavnim putevima,koji vode u velike gradove,neverujem da su se vojske mnogo smucale okolo,kao i u vreme 2s.r kazu da nemacku vojsku pola seljaka po srbiji nikada nije ni videlo,jer su se oni kretali uglavnom glavnim putevima,retko kad bi zalazili negde u neke nepoznate predele
pazi..moja neka teorija je,da su kao sto je i makedonski stigao do indije,ili persijanci do atine i sta ti ja znam ko vec gde sve...isli samo glavnim putevima,koji vode u velike gradove,neverujem da su se vojske mnogo smucale okolo,kao i u vreme 2s.r kazu da nemacku vojsku pola seljaka po srbiji nikada nije ni videlo,jer su se oni kretali uglavnom glavnim putevima,retko kad bi zalazili negde u neke nepoznate predele
Battlecat
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Pa da , sta uopste ima da se opljacka i orobi po planinama i selima ... ?!Kako cujem iz price i dogadjaja, oni su samo napadali velika mesta , pravo na krtinu
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